Why do I feel bad/guilty/like a crappy mom when I read a post like the Kindergarten post in alt. learning forum???
I keep repeating to myself that I'm not pushing him, and I know I'm not. But still it makes me feel like crap when people paint you a picture of "you'll see" "after 3rd grade they'll stop" "it's gonna put strain on relationship/family" "academics are crap play is the only way for little ones to learn" etc.
Yeah I'm paranoid and always take everything personally. It's hard not to.
You know what? Vidura would lose it if all we did were nature walks and play.
I buy him age appropriate board games and he cries that they are for babies. Except for Hi Ho cherry Ho because he managed to create new rules that make it more interesting. Otherwise he likes parcheesi, chess and stuff like that.
He plays, all the darned time. He has little people and he makes them recite sanskrit verses to each other he plays with toys, makes sand castles at the park every day, goes on the slides, you know, he's a REAL kid!
He's not a robot, not a machine. But yes, he can spend 3-4 hours a day just doing work books, staring at a board where i draw and write lessons, etc.
I don't force anything. If anything he's the one forcing it on me.
You tell him birds are born in eggs, he won't be satisfied, you also have to tell him how they live/develop/breathe in there, and what the shell is made of, how it forms inside the mother. That's the way he is. Not the way "I made him" ykwim?
**** sometimes I wish he was just "normal"
Anyway, this post is pointless I guess, but I need to get it off my chest.
Ys,
Radhanuga
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Maman to Vidura, 08/24/02, Vedavati, 09/10/06 and wife to Anadi.
Neenee Pie is 2! ........................... Vidura the tornado chaser
I don't belong to this particular forum, but I always read the new posts. He is "normal". He is like everyone else- different No one is made the same, and what he wants to do is what interests him. You sound like you feel very guilty, but if he is insisting on doing the reading and writing, typical school activities, then you are not pushing him. I think the only problem is when a parent feels insecure and pushes a child to study and achieve the goals he/she never met. But if he's happy and voluntarily asking to do such academic things, then I would not be worried..like my eloquent use of the word "things"?!
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I'm sorry if those kind of posts hurt you.
You have to do what is best for your child. My boys are very bright; DH and I were both in gifted programs as children, I know what my IQ is above (but not the actual number). My 5YO often blows me away with his ability to do complicated math in his head. They have amazing vocabularies. They ask deep questions. Vidura quotes sanskrit verses, my boys know all of the words to "Band on the Run" and various other Wings and Beatles songs. Who knows where they will focus their energies.
Someone asked me what I would do if they "weren't" gifted. I had to step back and really think about what I wanted their childhood to be like. I decided that for us, it was important not to focus their early lives on academics. I believe that you never get the time back and that they only get once chance to be young children.
Still, they didn't push when I took away academics. If they had it might have been a different story. DS#2 is more of an unschooler; what he knows blows me away, but he doesn't want to do workbooks, etc. DS#1 was actually able to understand everything I was teaching him, but was a bit bored (oh, how I know that feeling!).
I have spent the last couple of years redirecting. It isn't necessarily away from academics completely. And a lot of what you do in a Waldorf kindergarten is academic, they just don't call it that. It's sort of an unschooling approach to academics. We cook a lot, and work with fractions as well as the chemical reactions between foods and heat. When we walk we talk about trees, the different kinds, etc. We examine leaves in detail. You get the idea. It is still learning, just very hands on and experiential and not a workbook based learning.
If you are doing what Vidura wants then you have no need to worry. Educational styles are a small blip on the map of parenting. They don't make or break a child. Personally, I would get the workbooks out of the house and redirect like mad to see if he could become accustomed to more experiential learning. But that's me. If you are comfortable with what you are doing and his level of play then don't worry! He is normal! Kids are bright; it is public school that often "dumbs" them "down".
See that's the thing, he does get the hands on too. We go to the park and forest every day, we cook together everyday, he does a ton (and I mean from the moment he gets up) of pretend play, dress up, etc... We read a lot of stories (though he doesn't like fantaisy very much).
So as far as I'm concerned he gets all the hands on and play a kid his age does. I think he balances everything pretty well.
I tried Waldorf a bit, a friend lent me her Oak meadow stuff, he hated the stories, he was miserable and kept asking daily when we were getting his workbooks back. Funny think it that he doesn't even write yet, well now just a few letters, but he "stamps" the answers in, hehe. (we have alphabet stamps and ink pad)
We do a lot of painting, coloring, drawing (I went to art school and my Dad was an artist) we do bhajans (I play harmonium and we both sing Bengali and Sanskrit songs)
Anyway, I guess I'm just sensitive and emotional lately. Dang. Lol.
I think there are a lot of people that believe if the children are younger than 'typical' and doing certain things... they are being force fed.
What they don't understand is the different way that truely gifted kids think. They just are wired differently.
I'm going to get some good links/resources from my mom and post them. She is a gifted coordinator for the county, and has access to LOTS of resources. She has some really good links for gifted kids - including gifted preschoolers and early elementary. Believe me, having her really understand that we are not forcing has been a life saver.
And I absolutely hate it when people refer to gifted children as mini adults. No they aren't. They are children - their brains just work differently than typical children. Just becasue they are understanding higher level concepts - doesn't mean they aren't children first. And sometimes their brains just go into overload - with thinking/analyzing so much all the time.
Anyway, I will be finding some good gifted child links. Not just more work, but really ideas for how to work with gifted children. Going more in depth - because that is what they crave/need.
I'm sorry you feel pressured. I sort of did too, and i could see some of my words justifying what we have done. Frustrating when we let others words and opinions bother us so much.
My dd (now 10) was just like Vidura. I didn't know anything different and thought she was "normal". It wasn't until dr.'s and friends would oooh and ahhh that I thought something was up.
Because of her huge attention span and need to be fed information, I think that I encouraged it all too much and she ended up a "little adult" at 5 and 6 and really stressed out. I sent her to a deveopmental school when she could just be and she became more of a child.
It's hard to be a mama to an "accelerated" learner. Lots of people can judge, but you are the only one who sees him and knows him. Don't doubt yourself. My dd got sooooo frustrated learning to write her name that we put it away for 4 weeks. It was hard the first couple of days, but then it really didn't matter to her. Eventually she was able to write her name w/out frustration.
So, not sure what I wanted to say, but don't feel bad mama...I understand and think you are a wonderful mama!!!!
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Nanci
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I totally understand. That's why when I was where you are, I just didn't post about it much. It gets more OK as they get older. Erik reading, at 4, isnt' as notable as Erik reading, at 2. yk?
I finally was able to take the view that I would just do what Erik needed NOW. There's no way to predict what he'd be like later. And wisdom from others who had been there really helped, especially when I was considering what curriculum to get and many said "don't do anything, just let him play". The reality for us is, I DO let him play. And we school. Some seem to think that it's mutually exclusive. But really, Erik spends a lot of time engaged in what he wants. We just also school.
And then I think about it--as a general principle, I do agree with that perspective of better late than early. I certainly did before I had kids. And then I had my kids.
As Vidura gets older, it will get easier. The "skills" are more hidden, the giftedness not quite as obvious. Everyone is schooling, so it's less notable that you are. You will be able to choose who to tell the extreme level at which he works
OK, I just read the thread, and now I more clearly understand. I felt the same way. You know, Erik learned to read WITHOUT structured academics. He learned the alphabet on his own. I didn't sit him down for 30 minutues or longer at a time. I fought it for soooooooo long. I didn't want him to read, because of threads like that. But he did anyway.
Yes, I hate seeing families push their kids, force them to perform. I also hate that gifted young kids are seen as being pushed, and that I'm hurting him by not letting him just play.
But then I go back to what I wrote in the PP. NOt all gifted kids are the same. And some of them you just can't hold back. I would have had to remove books from our house to keep Erik from reading.
Last edited by heythereheather : 01-06-2006 at 12:30 PM.
I do think you're taking that a bit too personally. Those of us who talked of pushing kids, were talking about free play and exploration being pushed aside for academics. Which, obviously, is not the case with you.
IMO, there's nothing wrong with workbooks when the children really enjoy them. I can realte on that aspect, as b oth of my girls have loved them from the get go.
Speaking for myself, the issues I have seen have come from instances where sit-down academics were coming before other hands on types of learning. Where a young child has 3-5 hours of structured activities a day, but very limited time for chosing their own ways to learn.
Sorry the thread made you feel insecure, but I can assure you it wasn't about you or your situation.
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Meeshi, but when you (and others) post stuff about the forcing of academics at young ages, it is a bit unnerving. A lot of times the way people write things comes across as a 'my way is the best way' and it can be very insulting. I am probably guilty of this, too, because (obviously) if we thought we weren't doing something the "RIGHT" way we would be doing it differently. But each child is so unique. Add into that a higher than typical IQ and a child begging to learn more and more and deeper and deeper - and others look at it like force spoon fed information. And that is insulting to a mom who is really trying to do her best.
I had a long post typed out, but I just don't think that I can put into words what I am thinking.
Basically, we just need to respect each other. So what if someone WERE force feeding information. THEY are the ones who have to live with teh consequences (whatever they may be). I just hate that even amongst the homeschooling community there is such a stimgma for the perfect way of homeschooling. And it's comments about people force feeding (or comments about unschoolers, I know we all have heard/read them) that just fuel that.
You know, Erik learned to read WITHOUT structured academics. He learned the alphabet on his own. I didn't sit him down for 30 minutues or longer at a time. I fought it for soooooooo long. I didn't want him to read, because of threads like that. But he did anyway.
I don't think he's that "bad"
And if he ends up being another Einstein I sure hope he'll use his gift in something more productive than creating mass-destruction weapons
Thank you mamas for the support. It's nice to not feel "alone".
Going back to calculating when the next time will be that Sun Earth and Pluto will be aligned
I do think you're taking that a bit too personally. Those of us who talked of pushing kids, were talking about free play and exploration being pushed aside for academics. Which, obviously, is not the case with you.
IMO, there's nothing wrong with workbooks when the children really enjoy them. I can realte on that aspect, as b oth of my girls have loved them from the get go.
Speaking for myself, the issues I have seen have come from instances where sit-down academics were coming before other hands on types of learning. Where a young child has 3-5 hours of structured activities a day, but very limited time for chosing their own ways to learn.
Sorry the thread made you feel insecure, but I can assure you it wasn't about you or your situation.
i don't think "insecure" is the appropriate word here. i totally know how she feels because i, too, am in the minority of people whose children thrive on structured academics. posts like the ones made in that thread are incredibly narrow minded, imo. they don't take into consideration gifted children. the only reason i say anything at all about this is that i find myself always trying to downplay what my son does, which doesn't seem right. other moms post "she knows her letters!!" or "he recognizes numbers!" and gets lots of applause, congratulation, and encouragement. but someone posts that their 3 or 4 year old is doing reading novels, doing math in their head, starting chemistry (you go, heather!!!) or thrives on hours of seatwork every day and suddenly the replies turn to "the child's too young, you're pushing him, children need to be children, etc...."
our "school day" is several hours long. my son insists on it. mornings are school time. then, after lunch, he spends all afternoon playing. we play board games. he rides bikes. he plays with his friends. he picks on his brother. he makes tents and forts and plays soccer and tee ball with the neighbors. he tells a mean knock knock joke.
but if i need to take away a privilege, the one thing that will get his attention fastest is to take away a spelling list or a page of math problems. he adores seatwork. he loves copying sentences and correcting punctuation and grammar. he loves having pretend spelling bees. he loves to draw. he paints.
sorry i've rambled, but this thread hit a nerve.
all children are different. they all learn differently. they all prefer different learning methods. i think we need to respect that in one another and not make judgements that may not intend to hurt, but really do come across as an insult, like we actually push our children. most gifted kid's parents do the opposite. they try to hold them back.....i know i'm guilty of that. and the only reason i do it? because society, and particularly other mothers, are highly critical of mothers whose children are different than theirs.
just my two cents.
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Well, I guess I feel as if that's one of the strange phenomena of online discussion boards. When one Mama posts about needing a neat house to feel together, sometimes Mamas with messy houses take it personally. If someone posts about what companies they boycott and why, Mamas who shop there get defensive.
Basically, I think it's healthier to take information presented at face value and not try to compare yourself to others ideals, standards, ethics, you name it. Again, that'sd my own take on things, and probably why I don't get all offended or upset about posts here, even if they are saying things that go against how "we" do things.
Sure, I do cringe when I hear of children being *pushed* into so much sit down work. I also cringe when I hear of kids watching hours of TV, eating junk food... That's my honest reaction, yet does it really have an affect on people who do this and feel fine with it? Not at all.
I am sure many would crfinge at things we do or don't do, too. but, the bottom line is if you truly feel ok with what you're doing, why would you let it bother you if someone doesn't aggree?
Well, I guess I feel as if that's one of the strange phenomena of online discussion boards. When one Mama posts about needing a neat house to feel together, sometimes Mamas with messy houses take it personally. If someone posts about what companies they boycott and why, Mamas who shop there get defensive.
Basically, I think it's healthier to take information presented at face value and not try to compare yourself to others ideals, standards, ethics, you name it. Again, that'sd my own take on things, and probably why I don't get all offended or upset about posts here, even if they are saying things that go against how "we" do things.
Sure, I do cringe when I hear of children being *pushed* into so much sit down work.
I am sure many would crfinge at things we do or don't do, too. but, the bottom line is if you truly feel ok with what you're doing, why would you let it bother you if someone doesn't aggree?
Which is why I posted my vent in this particular forum. I asked Jo and Brian to set up this forum for us mothers of gifted children, because we can vent/share/discuss and support each other.
People who don't have gifted children honestly can't even begging to understand. No logic applies to them. No "norm" applies to them. They are special need. They are intense. Most of the time we just sit in front of them with our mouth open not able to say or do anything because we are totally overwhlemed by them, their knowledge, their ways, their thinking.
I didn't post on said thread because my point wasn't to debate with parents of "normal" (whatever that may mean) children. I came here because I knew the mamas would understand and help me go through this hard emotional spot with their experience and kind words.
So I did not get defensive in the thread, nor did the other mamas in my situation, because all we can do is sit down and cling our fists, because we (our kids) are not the norm and those who don't know just can't get it.
he plays with toys, makes sand castles at the park every day, goes on the slides, you know, he's a REAL kid!
No one is made the same, and what he wants to do is what interests him. You sound like you feel very guilty, but if he is insisting on doing the reading and writing, typical school activities, then you are not pushing him. I think the only problem is when a parent feels insecure and pushes a child to study and achieve the goals he/she never met. But if he's happy and voluntarily asking to do such academic things, then I would not be worried..like my eloquent use of the word "things"?!
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