I don't drink milk, but why would dry milk be a problem for people who can drink milk? Of course, I am not an anti-dairy person, although I am anti 'too much' of anything.
We may not feed our children some of the foods Amy fed her children, but we can't argue with the fact that her children grew up healthy and strong, and according to Amy, were rarely sick.
I know all the arguments against TG -- dry milk, day old white bread , mixing up surprise cans of food for supper etc. While I am not Amy's keeper, lol, it doesn't take a PhD in nutrition to see that in 10 yrs or so of newsletters, the family used whole wheat flour, whole wheat pastry flour, oatmeal, various grains, including brown rice, cornmeal etc in all of their from -scratch home -cooked foods. They also hunt, so at least some of the little (they felt it was too $) meat they ate was natural and organic.
Again, it might not be our favorite diet, but it was a 'good' diet for this family--they are healthy, without heart disease or diabetes. I don't know how much more proof we need that their diet proved healthy for their children. Mixing in white bread with a standard diet of whole grains, organic garden food, and natural deer is less than moderation. Some of the healthest, longest-living people on earth live in the mediteranean, where crusty white 'peasant' bread is a staple of a healthy, varied diet.
(Side rant: Of course, looking around, I want to cringe at the people thinking McDonald's on a daily or weekly basis is fine. I'd rather see a kid eat french bread (white flour) than a sesame seed bun loaded with high fructose corn syrup. The number of children I see driking soda...that's a tragedy in the making. Children with Type 2 diabetes is a crime).
The trouble is not a healthy varied diet, sprinkled with cheap sources of protein, like dry milk, or even yeast, water , salt and white flour; the trouble and $ is a diet filled with chemicals, trans fats, and esp something like high fructose corn syrup. It's in everything, esp processed foods, which are also among the most costly foods there are.
I tend to spend a lot on food these days, and I am always working to cut that back. Again and again, I see that it's about buying dry foods- flours, grains, legumes etc. Even organic bulk is much cheaper than the boxed stuff. If I find myself slipping into the Amy's and Annies and frozen organic veggie prcessed foods, or even non-organic, that's where I see my bill go sky high. I also do buy organic cheese, which is $$$. I try to limit that. It's so easy to put things in my cart. It adds up fast.
I also wanted to mention that among non -organic meats, turkey has consistently tested lower in antibiotics, hormones etc than any other meat. I beleive it is the metabolism of the turkey itself that makes this possible. So for those who can't buy much organic meat, this is an option. As is deep, cold water fish.
Location: somewhere between complete exhaustion and utter euphoria
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I wanted to comment on the GF flours. There are coops that will deliver to your area. I posted a link on this forum not long ago to help find a coop in your area. This is VITAL for me keeping my food bill down. I pay less than 1/2 at times for organic stuff (and GF flours/grains) than the HFS. But, also, there are many items (sausage) I pay LESS for than at the grocer. And, it is my understanding that the coops I have access to are very high priced for coops.
michelle, thanks for that link, i remember looking at it and considering it. it seemed like they had high minimums, and i wasn't on the truck route of the one. we don't have a TON of storage space, so i would worry about buying in bulk to meet the minimum. also, do you have to meet a monthly minimum? the one i'm considering, located about an hour drive from me, does have a monthly minimum, *and* you have to attend monthly meetings, which would basically man TWO 2-hour long drives a month, w/ two kids. *sigh* what's been your experience? which ones do you go with?
thanks,
alycia
Location: somewhere between complete exhaustion and utter euphoria
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I am involved an "buying clubs" to meet the minimum. Our minimum is $300 I think but my order is usually about $100 and there are sometimes as many as 15 or more ordering. So, it is not a problem. We do not have a local one. We are on truck routes of two and one delivers UPS. Can you find someone to order with you. Also, $100 is not that much food. If you have to order $300 with each order (and you should not have to order monthly), it is probably not as much as you think. We can eat a case of cereal in 4 to 5 weeks. That is $30. So, if I ordered every other month, that is $60, just for cereal. A case of cereal is about 12 X 14 X 12 but the boxes are regular size and easy to stick places. Almond milk is $20 a case. When I order, I order 3 to 5 cases (I do have storage room). That alone is $100. When considering storage room, think about tops of closets, under tables with cloths on them, etc. I have shelves above my washer and dryer where I keep jars of applesauce, cans of tomatoes, etc. Shoot, I'd store almond milk with the videos if I needed room.
Ca you break down what you spend per day, per person, per meal?
I think our agreed upon budget was $400/month,$100/week which was $25 per person, and so on.
I switched everyone to oatmeal for breakfast, in the crockpot, with a chopped up apple, some milk, and sugar sprinkled on top. For me, some nuts, too. It worked out to something ridiculous, like 4 to 10 cents a serving. So, at the most, 50 cents a day, over 30 days- $15 dollars for breakfast. Sandwiches and cut up fruit at lunch. Oh, started growing sprouts, so it wasn't unrelieved cholesterol on dh's sandwich. pb&j for the kids.
And for dinner, curries, and tofu, and mnc, from scratch, with white beans. Not brilliant ( well, mnc diablo was brilliant) but not break the bank, either.
Of course, dh got bored, and blew the bank on frozen lasagna, and boxed cereal. I could have cried. I hate dealing with him, sometimes.
For comparison, jefferey steingarten breaks down what most of the world spends, and what we spend. Americans, overall, spend less. Also, it's a bit hard to buy flavor, or texture, in American food. Even our mayonnaise, in the jar, has less flavor, and more fat, than what is distributed throughout the rest of the world. Disgraceful!
I suppose I should ask questions like, what is gfcf?gluten free, casein free, I get that, but that means no wheat, no milk products, and what else?
MS has gfcf cookies in her kids magazine, on occasion.
AD also migrated from a typical diet, to a brown rice and legumes diet. She documents her discomfort with the "strange" foods. Also, she writes about their basically limited diet.
I wouldn't base everything on outcomes, either. Some of the lowest heart disease rates in America are for Mennonite farm families. The eat red meat, white flour, butter, and bacon, yet have low hd rates. The best hypothesis is that they burn off all the calories. Since most of us aren't laboring from sunup until sundown, with the occasional fast (?), this advice really does not apply. Also, strong comforting religious values, and less physical presentation social pressures.
Like, New Orleans, well, used to be.... lots of people were fat. Like, top ten in the nation fat. Now, if you were a white, lower class Catholic, you would be fat, but not really have that much heart disease. If you were black, class didn't matter, not religious, or protestant, and fat- you had spectacular disease rates. Some of this is genetic. Some of this is social pressure. Some of this is food choices. This breakdown applies to other industrial cities, btw. As a white person migrated to a suburb, the heart disease rate went up. Go figure.
I just bought twg. I find it discomforting, actually. I don't know why. I know I've seen the ideas presented elsewhere, and they looked fabulous.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne Umbrell
For comparison, jefferey steingarten breaks down what most of the world spends, and what we spend. Americans, overall, spend less. Also, it's a bit hard to buy flavor, or texture, in American food. Even our mayonnaise, in the jar, has less flavor, and more fat, than what is distributed throughout the rest of the world. Disgraceful!
I suppose I should ask questions like, what is gfcf?gluten free, casein free, I get that, but that means no wheat, no milk products, and what else?
I just bought twg. I find it discomforting, actually. I don't know why. I know I've seen the ideas presented elsewhere, and they looked fabulous.
ari
I saw an article about what the world spends on food. Technically, Americans spent less that Europeans. I need to read the book though, to see if it is because they pay higher prices for food.
GFCF - gluten free, casein free. In addition to that we eat a vegan diet, so no eggs. GF vegan baking is really tough. It is far easier to go without and eat foods in a more natural state. My boys usually eat pinto beans and corn tortillas now for lunch, instead of sandwiches. I couldn't find a whole grain, GF, vegan bread. GF foods have a lot of processed starches in them.
There was a time when TWG was important and inspiring to me. I don't think she was saying anything new; it was like having your Depression-era family members give you advice. I still think what she had to say was important, but I am now much more in a place of voluntary simplicity so I combine some of her frugal ideas with things that are more simple. I won't store a million things to have on hand just in case. I want less. We'll probably never move, but I am decluttering and simplifying and when the time comes perhaps my or DH's parents can live with us and share our space comfortably.
I'm venturing off-topic...for more ramblings, see my blog (link below).
__________________
Peace,
Kimberly...loving, living and learning with an amazing man and two incredible boys.
"Wisdom, Vitality, and Compassion are my birthright. They are the core of all humanity, in all times and in all places. They may be clouded over, or tarnished, but the brilliance is there, Unchanged, to be discovered again and again. May I constantly seek these things in myself, that I might find them in everyone." ~ my words, taken from the philosophy of Enki Education
I remember a post, or more, from Allison (arasmama) a few years ago...about sacrificing certain things in order to never sacrifice on her organics and healthy food. That she simply considered that a need and not something debatable. I remember the impact it had on me and how I view food and other "needs" vs "wants".
I tried to find the post from a few years back, as well, about Amy and her diet. It compared her diet fat wise, calorie wise, protein wise, sugar wise, etc, etc...it was interesting to see. Obviously it's better over McD's, but I remember that comparison is what made me *not* want to buy her book(s). I am the worst cook in the world, and I figured if I am going to learn to cook, and actually try, I wanted it to be something really good for my family.
I don't know her kids, or if they grew up strong and healthy...I doubt anyone here knows that. Not to mention, how many people DO eat McD's every day and eat like crud, smoke, etc. and seem to end up healthy as horses and living to be 100. LOL. That darn "go figure" factor. Obviously her diet does not even compare to that, and her kids weren't suffering, but I do agree it can be done a lot better.
Now if I only I could get it done even half good, lol, I'd be happy. I still spend way too much on groceries simply due to my lack of cooking skills and patience. I'd love to live close to one of you cooking talented women and pay you for a few hours of simple cooking help. Seriously. It's an area I seriously lack in, and know it's not good for my family. Right now I am sure we eat worse than Amy's family ever did....ugh.
__________________ "Custom will reconcile people to any atrocity."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldiebutgoodie
60.00 a week is not unrealistic if you have a garden. You could maybe even get it down to 40.00 a week with a garden for a family of 4
We spend about 400.00 a month in the winter time for a family of 4 and I buy all organic including spices and household products.
but in the summer, because of our garden it is a bout 1/2 that.
Excactly this. This is exactly what I spend on groceries each week and we always do organic and whole foods (this also includes cleaning stuff, etc). In the summer I have a huge garden and I work at a CSA. I get tons of fresh produce and all winter when I have to buy it at the store my grocery prices almost double.
For me it is health insurance. Plain and simple. The fresher it is, the better it is for you. Fresh apples are going to be better than apple sauce. But if you need to have apple sauce (a NEED in my house) make your own from O apples that grow around you (if you can) ans sweeten with organic apple juice. I have 40 pints left out of over 100 from last fall that will last until this fall when I can make more. That is from two trees that my dad has in his yard and two days worth of work. Any time you can use real grains, do. Any time you can buy in bulk, do. I buy everything from peanut butter to honey to black beans to popcorn in bulk. Start with priorities and the more you learn the more you will make a priority. Get youself some glass jars and start filling them with bulk stuff... it becomes an adiction.
Here is the highest pesticide list:
These are the HIGHEST in pesticide residue
Only buy these organic:
1) Peaches
2) Apples
3) Strawberries
5) Nectarines
5) Pears
6) Cherries
7) Red Raspberries
8) Imported Grapes
9)Bananas
Vegetables
1) Spinach
2) Bell Peppers
3) Celery
4) Potatoes
5) Hot Peppers
And the lowest:
Foods that tend to be low in pesticides
EWG analysis of the latest government test results shows that the
following fruits and vegetables have the least pesticide contamination
among conventionally-grown foods.
Fruits
1) Pineapples
2) Plantains
3) Mangoes
4) Watermelon
5) Plums
6) Kiwi Fruit
7) Blueberries
8) Papaya
9) Grapefruit
Start here. Slow down when you start to feel your food bill is going too high and reevaluate. Each month go through and see what you still have. Make meals in your head using what you have (ie: "I still have some dried black beans and a bell pepper... I could pick up some onions and make a nice vege chili tonight with that brown rice", etc). Write down on your grocery list things that you need from your metal grocery walk through.
Always try one new thing. Grab the Barbra's Organic Right Rounds instead of Ritz and see how they go over. etc.... get used to having things like this around. Pretty soon it will be habit for all of you. The kids will adjust the quickest. The dh the longest (in my experience...lol). You will be somewhere in the middle. Do the best you can with what you have to work with and try to think of each new shopping trip as a learning adventure. Don't let set backs get you down. This is not a battle where if you mess up it is over. You always have another day/week/month to make it the way you want it to look. People will always eat right?
No dont kill me: I bought Tater Tots yesterday. Actual Tater Tots. I had an entire cart of really yummy food including fresh O kale, bulk O seasonings, a half gallon of whole O milk, O cabbage, O fingerling potatoes, two cans of O butter beans (white limas), O black beans (bulk), a bag of O cherry and vanilla granola (bulk), along with some almonds, a small thing of goat cheese with herbs along with some WW bagels, O free range Chicken Broth, and...
a bag of Tater Tots. YUM! Even the lady at the register noticed. This post sounds pushy, but really, just do what you can. Every time. That is all you can do. And when you spend $3 on tater tots... eat them, enjoy them, and have fresh oragnic fruit for dessert.
Val
__________________
Val; Living the dream we have been working towards for over 5 years.
Mama to Alex, Cyan, and Logan. Wife to my very best friend.
a bag of Tater Tots. YUM! Even the lady at the register noticed. Val
Val,
This is too funny. At lunch today, I wondered if I was the only person who would think it was funny that I was eating a hotdog with sprouts on it. Sometimes,there's gotta be some compromise.
__________________ Jody
Mama to two boys (5-10-98 and 6-01-01), and two girls (11-18-03 and 1-11-07)
I'm with Val. Enjoy yourself and do what you can. Sometimes my lifestyle goes downhill for a while. But I pick back up again and just keep going. I think the most important thing for me is that I'm trying to reduce our toxic load. When people try to tell me that these things didn't kill them I point out that they didn't suffer the toxic load that my children will if I don't set limits. The quantity of carp just wasn't there for my parents or grandparents or even my generation that there is for my children.
My food budget has big swings. I spend several weeks just buying what I need to make stuff with what I've got and then I'll I'll have a week where I just don't have anything and I spend a lot more. Right now the budget isn't too tight so I buy a thing of juice and some extra dairy products and a treat and some kind of berries most weeks.
I think the best things from the tightwad gazette are the universal recipes. I use the universal muffin recipe all the time. It's great to use things up and keeps it from getting boring. I also found the cooking for a month ideas useful. I don't cook for a month but instead of buying organic celery and having half of it go bad, I cut up the whole thing and freeze what I don't need right away. I try to make larger portions of stuff I know we'll use and freeze it or make mixes of dry ingredients. I'm not a SAHM so time can be as expensive as ingredients. I recently made a double batch of peanut butter cookies and used waxed paper to make my own cookie dough rolls. I made one batch that night, put one in the fridge for the next night and the rest in the freezer for later. Dh was thrilled. And no one complained about the ww flour or the flax meal. And I was happy that it was organic butter and peanut butter.
Another thing I've noticed. If I make a very simple meal that Dh might otherwise object too, he will always be happy if I also make fresh bread. I used to do GF so I do have a well loved breadmaker.
How much do I spend? I'm guessing between $70 and $120 a week right now.
I remember a post, or more, from Allison (arasmama) a few years ago...about sacrificing certain things in order to never sacrifice on her organics and healthy food. That she simply considered that a need and not something debatable. I remember the impact it had on me and how I view food and other "needs" vs "wants".
I tried to find the post from a few years back, as well, about Amy and her diet. It compared her diet fat wise, calorie wise, protein wise, sugar wise, etc, etc...it was interesting to see. Obviously it's better over McD's, but I remember that comparison is what made me *not* want to buy her book(s). I am the worst cook in the world, and I figured if I am going to learn to cook, and actually try, I wanted it to be something really good for my family.
I don't know her kids, or if they grew up strong and healthy...I doubt anyone here knows that. Not to mention, how many people DO eat McD's every day and eat like crud, smoke, etc. and seem to end up healthy as horses and living to be 100. LOL. That darn "go figure" factor. Obviously her diet does not even compare to that, and her kids weren't suffering, but I do agree it can be done a lot better.
Now if I only I could get it done even half good, lol, I'd be happy. I still spend way too much on groceries simply due to my lack of cooking skills and patience. I'd love to live close to one of you cooking talented women and pay you for a few hours of simple cooking help. Seriously. It's an area I seriously lack in, and know it's not good for my family. Right now I am sure we eat worse than Amy's family ever did....ugh.
One of the things I consider when evalutating Amy's family diet is whether most folks are able to buy near 100% organic. I would say we are at 98% with no fast food whatsoever. My 7 yr old, fi, has never eaten fast food. Has never stepped foot into McD's or BK. I don't assume, however, that most people are able to eat 98% organic, or can go without an occasional trip through the McD's driv-thru, which never makes it onto our radar.
So--I tend to compare what Amy fed her children to , while not standard Americans, but regular, thoughtful americans like all of us. (LOL Is there a difference?). Even among my crunchy friends, we are one of only a couple of families who never eat fast food, and who never buy processed food like Kraft or similar, and who buy almost all organic. We are blessed, and I know that.
I would think Amy's TG is a place that is good for most of us to garner at least a little helpful info, as the info is so genuine, so well thought out. I do buy bulk, on sale , and store etc. This way, we always have at least a certain amount of healthy food available, and do not have to worry if there is a storm etc. Whhile other families clog the roads before a snow storm, I feel at peace. I credit Amy with helping me think in more thriftful ways, and for helping me understand wants Vs needs. I feel that I can relax a lot more knowing we aren't in debt, and do not have to worry about having food when nature does her thing.
Yea, well, I'd be thrilled if I knew how to cook decently, could figure out how to cook healthy foods, could figure out how to do it cheaply...and not be in debt.
Amen sisters! YK, Since this has turned into a Amy battle. I do have to say that she was always concerned with the big picture and the environment, she saw tightwadism as a lifestyle but also one that allows you to do things that you value. I bet after the book was published and she had plenty of money she bought more organic. At least that's what I hope. I'm actually pleased with our progress so far, I'm spending less now, on about 75% organic, than I was before meating out and buying processed foods. My main goal is to cut the meat, hfcs, and preservatives/colors. And I'm starting a garden, so maybe some day I can save money that way and be 100% organic. Ya'll are my inspiration. One other comment: In the past we've received foodstamps and I was able to use them at the healthfood store which was great, however once I heard a lady making a snide remark about me buying expensive organic food with foodstamps. I was too chicken to say anything at the time but I feel like there should be more education for low income people about buying healthy/buying smart ie:bulk grains beans etc. Anyone else? Because when I go to the grocery store on the first of the months the carts are full of overly processed, convenience foods.YK?
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Posts: 9,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazumoon
One other comment: In the past we've received foodstamps and I was able to use them at the healthfood store which was great, however once I heard a lady making a snide remark about me buying expensive organic food with foodstamps. I was too chicken to say anything at the time but I feel like there should be more education for low income people about buying healthy/buying smart ie:bulk grains beans etc. Anyone else? Because when I go to the grocery store on the first of the months the carts are full of overly processed, convenience foods.YK?
I was on food stamps when I was in college, and then again when Dh was in college. I got comments like this all the time. When I was young and had Alex in college as a single mom I would just try to act like I didn't hear them... but when Dh was in college and we were on food stamps because I decided to stay home while my husband trained to become a police officer I had more clout and a lot more nerve. I turned to a woman who made a comment and said "What would you rather me do? Feed my children **** because we can afford it?" Honestly I don't know if the comment changed me and people could see it in my manner, or if no one got the opportunity again, but no one has ever said anything to me since. (The debit-like card that food stamps started coming in soon after helped a lot. More discrete.) At the time I fed a family of 4 mostly organic on $208 a month. That is impressive! We have not been on food stamps for nearly 2 years now and will never go back I am sure... but just that understanding of young people using the system as a step up in life and doing it wisely by not spending money on crap... well I'll gladly pay taxes for that.
And the education that you are talking about is found in some places... sadly though, there are very few (more in my area then any other I have ever been to, and still not many) people who are interested. It's a great idea though. I have thought about teaching nutrition and I have thought about doing cooking classes with whole grains for people on food stamps... perhaps after I am done having kids.
It adds up fast. 
This post sounds pushy, but really, just do what you can. Every time. That is all you can do. 
Jody
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