amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

BlueRoseMama · 10-04-2004, 05:00 PM

My dh and I are totally different. You all know this. But lately I have been thinking about different things that we want. We start talking about life goals and talking about housing and things of this nature, and we end up arguing (or debating) every time.

Heres the thing... I have been thinking about getting land as soon as we can afford it... while there is still some affordable land out there in this area (it is going really fast.) and then putting 2 or 3 Yurts on it, and building for the next year after that. Into the house of my dreams on the land.

Don would rather buy a double wide and live in that for the time when we are building. He says that he would rather live in a moble home than a "glorified tent"... now I understand that double wides don't have to be all white trash like I have seen, but at the same time... is it just me? or is there a culture clash going on here?

Now there is our house. I live in the "family home" which was owned by my grandma, then my uncle, and now my 'dad' (not the one that I love and talk to, the one I have seen once in 5 years and that was for his brothers funeral... we don't talk. AT ALL.) I eventually will either buy this house from said 'dad', or have to let it go. No one else in the family wants it... and it is a super nice house... I mean REALLY nice. But it is smack in the middle of town and it needs about $25K worth of repairs before it will be truly worth getting (New windows are a must... and the kitchen needs a total remodel). I don't always mind being in town, unless I am trying to actually build a garden area, and then I realise I have exactly 100 square feet or less of usable garden space. That kills me... I want to be pretty self sufficiant. It won't happen here. Now I understand that Don loves this house... for all of the bigger-better-stable-American reasons. And it is nice to be living the American dream and salvaging some my history and generational beauty at the same time. But... should I comprimise what I want out of LIFE for that? I am not sure... this house is only going to go up in value. We most likely could get a good deal on it (from my 'dad'), and then we would be able to rent it out and get a better property years later if I really felt that I did not want to be here, but I would feel a little stuck considering that my aunts, and then my dad would feel I had bound myself to this place.

But if I was to move out of this house, to a moble home... well the thought makes me sick.

I am not sure what to do... anyone had any choices like this? Where life goals just did not meld well? Any BTDT advice would be great... so would "here think on this" ideas. It is all hypothetical now, but soon Don will have a job, and it will be a reality that we will start looking to settle. What do you all think?

Love Val

Bluemoonjo · 10-04-2004, 06:58 PM

I don't know what I would do...

Have you checked into the costs of having the house moved? Might be an option ... keep the house and get land.

Around here double wides go for as much as a built house...

steffieinmn · 10-05-2004, 12:11 AM

My recent experience says to proceed with caution, once your DH gets the new gig. Let the new situation settle and really become 'reality,' as you say. You never know if he's going to hate it and want to go somewhere else within a year, or if something dramatic and traumatic could happen like what just happened to my DH. (A seemingly rock-solid career that got yanked out from under him two years after we did close to what you're talking about.)
We lived in a nice, affordable 1950 rambler in a nice cozy neighborhood about 5 miles from DT Minneapolis. Totally affordable monthly payments stable utilities, a fairly predictable budget, along with terrific property value appreciation. We had the opportunity to have our move paid for with DH's new job two years ago, so we sold our house (with over $100K equity) and found this place. While we were both in agreement on what we wanted to do here (we bought a 10 acre farm and now live in the horribly built old farmhouse, and we want to build a new dream house), due to DH's recent job loss, our plans are now on hold indefinitely. At least we didn't get way in over our heads on the cost of living for this place, but it's going to be extremely tight, if not impossible, to keep a balanced budget until DH can find a better paying job.
Had we stayed in our previous home, we'd have 10 years left on our mortgage, with way less 'stuff' purchased than we have now. (i.e. riding lawn mower for the 4 acres of grass, etc etc etc) I can't even think about all the investments we had to make just to live here. Our cost of living would be lower in some areas (utilities) in our old house, but probably higher in others that are more controllable (groceries, convenience stuff).
I guess it sort of depends on your aversion to risk. We took a risk that didn't seem too dramatic at the time, but hindsight is, of course, 20/20. My rational side says to hold on to your current housing opportunity until you've got decent safety net or cushion to fall back on, in the event you should take the plunge into buying the land and (g*d forbid) something should derail your plans. Luckily we weren't living check to check before this all happened, or else we'd probably have to consider drastic measures like selling this place.

Just my .02.

~Denise~ · 10-05-2004, 02:10 AM

I'm not going to be able to add much, we live in one of "those" homes, you know, the white trash ones. (o; And it's my goal actually to have a triple wide on lots of my own land...I prefer them over land built homes for many reasons. *But* it's not about me, it's about you. You need to do what you feel comfortable with. I guess I'd recommend researching all options, and look into your dh's preference, and then yours, more deeply...list the pros and cons to each, sit down after and talk about it. You, or dh, may be pleasantly surprised once you know more and hear more. Or perhaps not, and you will have to compromise or go with listing the pros and cons to each and going with a "more pros" type approach. Good luck.

P.S Here you get a 2000 sq. foot home on a see your neighbors very closely lot for about $350,000....land here is a premium and you can barely find acre lots for under $200,000.

BlueRoseMama · 10-05-2004, 03:07 AM

Denise... I knew you lived in a moble home and was not talking spacifics of anyone I had not met. In fact I have met one family that lived in a double wide that was amazing on two acres of land too. It is different for me I guess. I was brought up to not go above my bounds as far as money goes. To live below the mean of society... not American society but world society. I grew up watching my parents live off the land, not ever have new things and consistantly deal with whatever they had. Three yurts (which you can purchase for 3k each and so the total housing cost would be a little over 9k for all three with wooden floors) would be my dream. I would love it... at least for a while. But because of what Don wants I do not know how long that would last. He would hate it... hate living rurally, and he would hate living with what he believes is "without".

That is the way I feel here... it is MY family home. Not his... and I know it is far beyond what most of my friends have and in a neighborhood that is just going to increase in value. But at the same time I feel the land calling me. Each time I think I see something I want this house to be, it comes with land. There is no option to move this house, it is three stories and about 3200 sq ft. Built to specifications when it was moved here in 1953. (Yep it was moved before.) That would cost so much and the basic house is not necessarily what I want. It is way too big for me, and although we rent about 800 sq ft of it (basement apt) it has been hard for me to imagine having all of this space to myself.

That said, I LOVE MY HOUSE. It has been in my family for now three generations... and I would like nothing better than to pass it on to my kids. But because of the way I was raised (simplistically), I think it is too much. Way too much. Don loves this house. It is his dream. If you could think of the top 5 things that you would want in a city neighborhood this house would have all of them (good schools, close neighbors that are wonderful, close to downtown, within walking distance to most things you need, around like minded people, etc). It just feels as though it sucks my soul. Perhaps that is the fact that my 'dad' owns it... it was not this painful when my uncle owned it. Maybe if I was able to get the house in my name it would feel different. But I was really emotionally abused in this house... and it has never been acknowledged at all by my 'dad' that his wife treated me this way. In fact he told me the last time I saw him that he wanted to let me know that 'she' was really hurt that I did not call her when she sent my kids gifts. I DON"T WANT HER ANYWHERE NEAR MY KIDS. Not even in thought. She was terrible. So now that I think that this is where Don wants to be because of his upbringing, and then thinking back to the life I had here, and having that go against the things I was taught from the people who have PROVEN their love for me through the years... well... you can imagine how this messes with my head.

There are a lot of emotional issues wrapped up in this. Perhaps too many for people who do not even know what I look like. But I have so few people to talk to that do not believe that I should make nice with my dad just to get the house. So here I type.

I feel like I need to make my mark on this house. The kitchen needs a major remodel (walls knocked out, and a few things removed)... I want to do it. Before I decide to buy it. I want to see if knocking out these walls with allow me to release some of my greif about what happened here. But I don't want him to ask me for more money because of the steps I take to make this house better. I could not let that go... not from him. And guys... he is that selfish.

I am just a little lost. That is all... I feel like I want to do something dramatic. Live in another country... move to the middle of nowhere... just not feel stuck.

Sorry to dump on you. Like I said... the house is so nice that most people believe that we should take it, but Don told me last night that he wants to wait a few years before we put in an offer. Perhaps it would be best if we did the remodel work on my 'dad's dime and see how I feel then? I just don't know. But I am glad dh gave me this choice. I need to let some of this stuff go before I choose this as my permanant residence... 3200 sq ft or not.

Love Val

BlueRoseMama · 10-05-2004, 03:13 AM

oh and Dh is a cop... he will be full time pretty soon (has 7 aps out and was top of his class in everything) it is not likely that in these times we will be getting rid of many cops. So therefor I am not worried about his job... we are not planning on having more children (I want one more, Don does not), so that means that I could go back to teaching if I needed to.

I am not that worried about finanacial security. I am worried about one of us being dissatisfied with a long term commitment. We have enough differences already.

Love Val

~Hope~ · 10-05-2004, 11:36 AM

Val,

Where I live, double wides can and often do go for just as much as a 'stick built' house.
When put on a permanent foundation, here they are considered a house.

IF you did go with a house (stick or mobile) in a more rural setting, could you put a yurt in back just for you?
As a place to work (I read about your latest batik endeavor!

and a place to retreat?

Just a thought...

Hope

BlueRoseMama · 10-05-2004, 11:48 AM

Hope that sounds great. A friend has this exact set up. The yurt has been anything from a retreat, a meditation room, an office, to a tv room. If we get this house I am planning on putting a yurt on some land and putting my garden out there. I have thought a lot about having that space be my sactuary space, but most likely it will be about 10 miles away. So I am not sure how much personal stuff I want out there. My friends and I are looking to get the land together, and then each get a small Yurt. If we each get a 16' - 20' round, then we will use one as a kitchen and the other two we will trade time... We will all produce on the land for gardening reasons.

That is, if we stay in this house.

I need to figure out how I feel about this house first. lol...

Love Val

lakshmi_mama · 10-05-2004, 12:27 PM

(((Val)))
I know what you look like.

And I have been to your house, and I know a bit about it and your history in it.

It is a gorgeous house. It is in a great spot as far as urban housing goes. It has a great yard and you have done wonderful things with the garden space you do have.

........ but you know what - the most wonderful thing about that house is YOU. It has your touch in every corner. And that special quality will go wherever you are. Even if it is to a double wide.

That house has a huge history for you. It isn't all sunshine and roses. You have done a great deal of work to rid the house of the energies that lurk and that take you back to the hurts of the past. But you know. It is just my simple opinion, not the absolute truth, but I think that to buy that house is to commit to a history that you are trying to shake. Even if you own it, you are consenting to obligations with the family. You said yourself in a previous post "my aunts, and then my dad would feel I had bound myself to this place."

I know you have an image of what living in a double wide (or any sort of 'mobile' home) . A good friend of mine who is moving to some land felt the very same way, but her dh asked her if she was willing to 'sacrifice' that short term image for a long term goal. She decided that, yes, ultimately she is. Are you? Yes, yurt living is romantic and part of your dream. But it isn't the sum total of it. Your dream is to have land, raise food, and live simply. You battle with the consumer lifestyle living in your current house represents, but when you talk about moving to land you are holding onto a piece of that in your conflict over the type of **temporary** housing you will choose. I think that needs looking at before you make any choices.

I know you have many differences with Don. But you have many similarities and a great love that has gotten you through some incredibly challenging times. Work with him on this. Make this dream do-able for BOTH of you.

love and peace, and clarity of vision.

choleblack · 10-05-2004, 02:40 PM

Val-

I didn'[t read the other responses but here are my .02 anyway.

Why can't you have it both ways? This is what my DH & I plan. We have just recently purchased a house in town, smaller lot but walking distance from everything. In a few years we plan to purchase a chunk of land in the middle of nowhere to have as our "get away". Both DH & I have this internal conflict, 1/2 wanting to be isolated and 1/2 wanting to be close to everything. We have also agreed that the get away land will have a yurt. We are fortunate however that the area we are moving to is lower in price range, no threat of developers buying out the farm lands etc.

Anyway, have you tried living in a yurt yet? I know there are some places that have them as rentals - I think it was the Colorado yurt company that had a list of places like this. Maybe it's just my desires/oppinions but when I think of living in a yurt, I mean *really* in a yurt. No electricity, composting toilet, wood stove etc. There are certainly ways to make a yurt more modern, maybe your DH just needs to see that they don't have to be the ultra-hardcore off grid living system (ie glorified tent).

Good luck, housing choices are the hardest things in a relationship IMO.

Chole

thrrrnbush · 10-05-2004, 03:17 PM

Dear Val,

I have no grand advice. I suspect this is the sort of question best answered in the depths of your gut and not in anything I have to say. I just wanted to let you know you're not alone in the mixed marriage world.

My husband and I argue far too much and usually end up staring at each other mutually thinking "What sort of alien freak have I married?" He gets frustrated with my unrealistic ideals and tells me that my friends and family are not an accurate cross-section of humanity for me to base my world views on. I get frustrated with his cynical rage and tell him that things can only get better if people take the risk of living like they are. You can translate that arguement into a hundred and one different particulars, goodness knows we do.

I don't have any answers on this one either. Some days I tell myself that we are two extreme individuals coming together to form a perfect balance. Some days I tell myself with his type-A, workaholic, microwave-the-burrito-in-the-plastic-bag, road-rage, middle-management-stress, coffee-coffee-coffee/beer-beer-beer, workmore-buymore-workmore lifestyle I'll be a young widow and I won't even have to kill him. On the best of days I just laugh at it all and start another load of laundry.

I hope ya'll find that harmony I keep dreaming about, and if you do I'll give you my first born in exchange for the secret.

-Crystal

mamabear · 10-05-2004, 07:30 PM

Wow, Val. A lot of heavy stuff to think about.

We are in a similar place. A too-big house, in worse than a cool urban area - it's in an uncool suburban area! And a house with some family **** attached to it - MIL helped us with down payment, IL's helped us refinance, we bought it on my uncle's recommendation because of the dismal-failure bagel store that was supposed to be our life's career.

Anyway. We are moving to the land. Yet we struggle with very, very similar issues. Do we really want to be there, and not "in town"? Yet for us, the battle is within each of us - not necessarily between us.

I'm not sure I'm much help. We have been doing lots of talking, lots of meditating, lots of looking deep within. Lots of rearranging (as you saw!

) and space clearing types of things.

We keep asking ourselves if we want to move simply to escape ourselves and our own demons? Or are we moving from a position of strength, knowing that we have faced and dealt with everything we need to deal with?

grisandole · 10-06-2004, 08:52 PM

Val,
I don't know what you look like, but from your words I would recommend NOT buying the house, and instead getting land and puttting a mobile on it. As you probably know, the new ones are nice and not like "trailers". I live in one

If you buy a modest but nice 3/2, they go for about 35K including set up, and include all appliances and such. It won't be your dream home, however, you will be living on the land that you desire, and you can do some green living in a moblie home- well and septic, so you won't be dependent on the city for that, solar, etc. That way, while you are building your dream home, which may take quite some time, you will be in a comfortable place for your entire family.

You could even put a mobile and a yurt up, the yurt could be your space. So many possibilites when you have all that land.

Good luck!

Kristi

BlueRoseMama · 10-07-2004, 12:10 PM

I have set up a few things like that Laurie. I have an alter above my pantry that I have put pictures of my grandma and my mom. Both of those people were nurturers in my life (and my mom and I still have issues but they are getting better daily.) And I set it up with a card that has the goddess Brigantia/Brigid on it. She is the goddess of creativity and domestic accord, and that really resonated with me. That is what I long to be... the goddess of creativity and domestic accord. lol... there are days I am close just by instinct... lmao! (Making banana bread with the kids, doing a set of Applesauce, and batiking all of their old clothes, not only in one day, but in one morning.

)

I also have an alter in the dining room. It has our nature table things on it, a black candle, a white candle, and a few fresh flowers from the garden (always). What is Moxi? I would love to do this... what is it?

I have sacred spaces in my house that I have filled with love. But the fact remains that I have personal things to deal with with my dad (Papa and now Frank). I can't run from that my sisters. He was a sour spot in my life for my entire life... and it does not look as though he is going to get better.

His wife is a wacko. No kidding. I don't remember a good year after she came along. The first year she was with papa, my mom, step dad, me and Chani (bro) moved to the east side of WA (away from my moms wonderful farm where I still have many good memories) so my step dad could get his Masters. It was a big step... and I saw papa every weekend before that. After I saw him twice that year. When we moved back they started fighting (papa and mom). I was 12. Papa no longer wanted to pay child support. He would not pay and my mom would get mad. And then... my step mom started to get these headaches. I don't know where they came from, but the idea that she came up with was so ridiculous that I just can't imagine THEY believe it, much less expect ME to still believe it. Anyway... they said that she had headaches because my mother was mad. And SM was 'psychic' (read: psycho). She would get a headache EVERYTIME papa was coming to get me. He no longer came to our door, he would make me walk a block for him to pick me up.

And then it got worse. I remember sitting for HOURS waiting for him to come and get me and then to have him call me and say that SM was having a headache and they would try it next month.

When I was there, with them (on the rare times she actually allowed him to come and get me) they would brainwash me and tell me how evil my mom was. With my moms temper, she was always yelling about him (wouldn't you be tempted though if someone was treating your 11 yr old that way?) and so for a while I thought they were both nuts and hated them. But papa was farther away. And so it was easier for me to see the good in him than in mom, and I moved in with him just after my 13th b-day. With in 7 months I was back with mom, and then I made a fatal error. I asked my mom to sign custody over to him. She was heart broken... and she did it. She was bitter and angry for 4 years. But that four years was enough to have papa show his true colors. First they moved me into the apt down stairs in this house. I was not allowed to come upstairs with out CALLING first. (I look back and just want to SPIT) I was 15 yrs old. I had to pay for my own food, so I started working. I nearly failed 10th grade. Finally after getting down to about 79lbs, and getting a 1.7 on my grades (I was a 2.9 - 3.4 student) my dad "decided that it may be too rough on me tring to make it on my own". Ya think???

You would think that because the headaches were all about my mom they would stop once Papa and SM had no contact with my mother? I mean she had even shut me out... But no... now they were coming through me. I was the recipiant of several attacks of her craziness and once (just before my 16th bday) she went through and distroyed my room. She ruined all of my cds, and took all my clothes and droped them in the shower and put the shower on, she ripped my posters, and broke my tv... she went nuts. (That is the room that Alex has now, and I wonder why he has nightmares)

Two weeks later they picked me up at school and told me I was needing to go and live with my boss from the YMCA. (I found a better job there that allowed me to at least finish my home work) They had all my stuff in the van and the whole ride there SM was saying "I am SO relieved that you are finally doing this Frank. So relieved. And SO ready to be done with this." Did the psycho realise that I was right there and I was a KID?? Oh no... That day when they dropped me off is a day I have told myself stories about over and over. How heartbroken Frank looked as he told me that he and "terry won't be able to see you for a while because we just need to get our lives back." The hand I broke by putting it through a wall the second he walked out the door, and the next 6 months of working and failing school, wondering if ANYONE cared about me at all. Finally I decided to go back to moms. I was scared and I did not know what to do. The woman I was staying with told Frank. He sent me for a 6 week visit with my sister (in Derioit MI) to see if I would have a change of heart. Then three weeks later he sent my stuff. I was stuck... 3000 miles from my mom (who was not speaking to me anyway) and with a sister who was on the verge of a nervous breakdown with her own life. It just gets worse from there... long story... less long... lol... I ended up pregnant and living in the back of my car in the school parking lot. Someone from the business office at my school there decided to pray for me at their church. People came in droves to help. I found a place to live with a woman for the last 6 weeks of my pregnancy, I was given tons of baby clothes, free lunches everyday, and about $200 to get baby things with. I was SO blessed. Neither of my parents would talk to me... or try to contact me... so I called my step dad. We cried together... and he told me that he wanted me to come home. Two weeks after Alex was born I moved home. With two garbage bags of stuff, and a baby. Things have just gotten better from there.

That is what is wrapped up in this house. That is why I felt I needed to live here to get rid of these demons. But it seems as though I am just putting them off. They are not going away and now my son is having nightmares. It just really trips me out that we get things we need to work on over and over... until we don't need to work on them anymore.

I feel like I have given you guys a lot of my life here... and I sort of want to find a way to send it to the ones I know personally. But to be honest... this is my past. No one can really hurt me more than living it did... so whatever. I releace this past to you, my friends. I am writting Laurie... Although I am not sure this is what you meant.

Love Val

BlueRoseMama · 10-07-2004, 12:11 PM

I want to phsycially knock out a wall in this house... knock it down with a big fat sledge hammer. That would feel SO good!!

Love Val

Could my spelling get any worse?