spiritual discussionsThis is the place at AW for mamas to learn about all different religions and beliefs, to ask questions, to give answers- all done with respect! if you don't have anything nice to say here- don't say anything at all.
for those that DON'T claim christianity as their faith but believe in g-d/spirit/high
I would like to discuss the belief that one is ****ed if they are not "saved".
(I wish i was more eloquant so forgive me if i ramble:lol: )
I do not believe this because my heart tells me differently. I just can't believe that indigenous tribal people who have never been made aware of christianity or converted to christianity are somehow doomed to hell. I think they are closer to g-d and g-ds intended ways for human kind (caretakers of the earth,living in harmony with nature,not reliant on external material 'things' etc) my heritage on my fathers side is native american/ojibwe and it is because of christianity and this view that their slaughter was justified in the name of "my religion is right and you are heathens! convert or die" mentality. How can a religion that supposedly teaches right from wrong justify such obvious evil in the name of itself?
I also think that the bible itself is 'tainted' in that it is merely an interpretation by 'man' and that there are huge gaps purposely left out to further an agenda by certain men of that era to justify keeping woman under a certain level of control and to make war (most wars of yesteryear and today have religion at the core,not saying christianity is the only culprit, just one of,but discussing christianity in this instance). Ok I just want to have a discussion (not a piss off a bunch a people in the process) so like others on the forum tonite, I limited it except I am limiting it to non -christians only(or christians who would like to discuss in a friendly manner ). Thanks!
Last edited by miraclebirths : 07-28-2006 at 11:48 PM.
After being raised Catholic, then moving away from religion, then attending Southern Baptist churches, and now not attending any church, I am so unsure of what I believe.
I asked that very question of my last pastor, and he told me that I was thinking emotionally, like a human, and not like God would think. So I wondered why God even created people whom would have *no* chance of hearing the Bible. Of course, the answer I always got was, "Well, that's what the Bible tells us, and we will know everything once we get to Heaven."
Not to start trouble, but I don't think that is a good answer. So, you don;t know and can't tell me, we'll just wait to get to Heaven..and if I'm wrong it won't matter because we'll be dead. I know that's not a very well written post, but that's the sum of how I feel lately.
After being raised Catholic, then moving away from religion, then attending Southern Baptist churches, and now not attending any church, I am so unsure of what I believe.
I asked that very question of my last pastor, and he told me that I was thinking emotionally, like a human, and not like God would think. So I wondered why God even created people whom would have *no* chance of hearing the Bible. Of course, the answer I always got was, "Well, that's what the Bible tells us, and we will know everything once we get to Heaven."
Not to start trouble, but I don't think that is a good answer. So, you don;t know and can't tell me, we'll just wait to get to Heaven..and if I'm wrong it won't matter because we'll be dead. I know that's not a very well written post, but that's the sum of how I feel lately.
well I just believe if we stop questioning we stop living and just become drones...
Well, pseudo-Christian here, but my personal belief is that
well,
I don't know if there is a heaven, but I certainly don't think that there is a hell.
but, pretending that I thought that there was
I think many things, but mostly I believe that all faith-traditions I can think of have at there core to be good people and treat others with love, respect, and dignity. So, I believe that "salvation" (if you will) comes from being a good person to others - regardless of who one follows.
I do believe that they are all different paths that teach us how to be good people. Which one you pick is up to you.
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Rebecca, wife and mother
Happy Holidays
(and it was the best I could do - I gave it three different photoshoots)
Well, pseudo-Christian here, but my personal belief is that
well,
I don't know if there is a heaven, but I certainly don't think that there is a hell.
but, pretending that I thought that there was
I think many things, but mostly I believe that all faith-traditions I can think of have at there core to be good people and treat others with love, respect, and dignity. So, I believe that "salvation" (if you will) comes from being a good person to others - regardless of who one follows.
I do believe that they are all different paths that teach us how to be good people. Which one you pick is up to you.
I don't know. It was drilled into me that there is a Heaven and a Hell...but I don't want to try to believe something just so I avoid Hell. (Speaking for myself only) The thing I was always told at the SBC was that salvation depends upon accepting Jesus as the savior and good works would follow because no true Christian wouldn't geniunely *want* to do good works, but that good worls without Jesus were meaningless. I guess that was the whole point of the Bible? To believe in Jesus as the son of God? That he died on the cross to wipe out our sins that were brought on by Adam and Eve, original sin? I guess I still live in fear that "God's going to get me."...
I never understood how one book could have *so* many interpretations..and who is correct? And if it's the same book, how is it that people seem to interpret it so differently? Who knows which interpretation is the right one? Does it even matter if all those people believe in Jesus and God? It's all so confusing!
I was going to post this in the other poll/thread. If we are all God's children, it makes no sense that so many of us would be doomed beyond our control just because of where we are born or live or how we are exposed or not to Christianity. I mean, even the Veggietales say, "Our God is the God of second chances!" LOL. So I believe that there are many paths to God, but that Christianity is true and the path I follow. But there is truth and light in all faiths, and God knows our hearts.
Kerri
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Mama to Cole (9), Naomi (8), Adam (7), and Noah (4)
All adopted - All breastfed
Wife to David for 12 years!
Breastfeeding Counsellor and Doula
Accepted into midwifery school for February 2009!
We are moving to New Zealand on January 29th
Yikes, there is TONS to do before then. Gulp.
Another way of thinking about hell is to think of being far from God. That doesn't have to include fire and eternal ****ation.
The original post said Christians could comment if we discussed in a friendly manner, so I'd like to respond.
There is a bible verse that clearly describes hell as fire and eternal seperation from God. If you don't believe what the Bible says, thats fine, I just wanted to let you know that there is a description in the Bible that describes the fire part.
Luke 16: 19-31
There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25 "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27 "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29 "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
As far as I'm concerned, the bible is a pretty much a history book and social commentary.
I spent much more time listing all the things I was doing wrong and ways I was screwing up when I was a Catholic.. I'm much more comfortable in my own skin now.
I think that the perception that one needs to be saved implies that there's something wrong with you.. and really, there isn't. I believe that each person has a path to walk through this lifetime.. and it's not the place of any other in this world to tell someone that their path is "wrong."
As for heaven/hell.. dunno. I'd think of hell as more lonely and cold than anything else.. but I simply don't know.. and that's okay.
The original post said Christians could comment if we discussed in a friendly manner, so I'd like to respond.
There is a bible verse that clearly describes hell as fire and eternal seperation from God. If you don't believe what the Bible says, thats fine, I just wanted to let you know that there is a description in the Bible that describes the fire part.
Luke 16: 19-31
There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25 "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27 "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29 "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
thats *if* you believe evrything word for word what the bible says...giving the bible verse as an example does not prove anything.
As I stated before do you believe a book that is written by men (imperfect men) supposedly with divine influence-g-ds' (but are supposed to be his *word*), but knowing that parts have been left out and things perhaps added in *not* from the divine but from man and you don't know which is truly which...and they claim all of it is g-ds word and you know darn well it isn't?? For me I take the good and reason the rest in my head to what makes sense for me. I cannot and will not be a drone with no ability to question or reason..
This is what I am asking,knowing this, doesn't it make you want to question or do you just except it as is and don't question? this I cannot understand..
that said there are MANY things written in the bible which I believe to be true and historically correct. its just all the little things that don't add up that I question...
Ok if you understood that you get a cookie..
Last edited by miraclebirths : 07-29-2006 at 10:40 AM.
for those that DON'T claim christianity as their faith but believe in g-d/spirit/high
). Thanks!
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