amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

Just1Day@Atime · 05-12-2006, 07:56 PM

.... Now this might end up offending someone or whatnot and in advance I am apologizing for it but.... I need to understand something LOL

Does your faith or religion HAVE to define every move you make in life? Does it HAVE to be a "believe" or burn in eternal ****ation situation for you? Do you "force" your kids to believe the same beliefs as you do? What if your child suddenly wanted to believe something that was totally opposite from what you DO follow, how come it will harm or hurt the family?

The past thread on "obligate husband" is what brought me to ask this because I am a little "perplexed" on how religion affects a family big time.

I can't speak for my family basically because I am Pagan and DH is Christian but deep down I think he is fascinated by Paganism and I know his mother is a Neo-Pagan but she's just in denial and says she is a southern baptist..... LOL. My kids have been told by both hubby and I that they can choose to believe whatever they want to believe as long as it is not harming anyone and as long as it is not just a fad or a cult thing.... make sense?

Mamas, I am asking you to help me understand it...... so that I can feel a little more at ease and have more understanding of this as a whole.

Barb · 05-12-2006, 08:30 PM

Ok, I also hope I don't offend anyone. I almost didn't respond at all - but I feel like I need to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpellboundSecrets

Does your faith or religion HAVE to define every move you make in life?

I think if you truly believe in something you try to live your life in accordance with it. I don't believe it "has" to define every move you make, but generally speaking if you believe in something that is the way you try to live and it will absolutely influence every decision you make in this world. If you believe in Christ and you decide to spend your life being more like Him, honoring him etc - then yes, He helps you define each move. There are rules and guidance in the bible that help us to make decisions and know right from wrong. If you follow the bible then yes, it defines your moves.

Quote:

Does it HAVE to be a "believe" or burn in eternal ****ation situation for you?

I guess I put only a few things into the "burn in hel*l catagory based on my Faith and religious affiliation. I don't necessarily for instance believe that if you don't believe what I believe you're going to burn because I believe in a loving, forgiving, graced based God who extends mercy. I do believe theres only one way into heaven tho - and tho I'm not sure exactly what happens to those who deny God the bible makes it pretty clear to those of us who believe in it.

Quote:

Do you "force" your kids to believe the same beliefs as you do?

This is loaded the way you've written it.
My children are being raised in our faith yes. Forced? absolutely not. I mean, if they grow up and disagree or find another path so be it. My 16 1/2 year old has professed her faith on her own as an adult and was in no way coerced to do it. We pray in our home, we talk about God all the time - He is part of our everyday lives and present in our hearts. We praise Him for all the gifts and blessings He gives us, we thank Him all the time for everything and we ask Him to extend His grace and mercy over us and those we love. We attend church regularly every sunday - my kids go to their classrooms (well cept for velcro boy who stays with us and drives the pastor bonkers) and learn about our faith and hopefully will have their own personal relationship with God as they grow. My kids attend Awana, I sing in the praise band, we volunteer often for many different small groups and ministries. We're at church alot and in others homes acting as caregivers as needed. Forced? no. Encouraged. Absolutely.
We answer questions, debate, discuss and pray together. And hopefully we always will.

Quote:

What if your child suddenly wanted to believe something that was totally opposite from what you DO follow, how come it will harm or hurt the family?

I would be absolutely amazed if a child of mine wanted to believe something opposite of what we believe - but if that did happen I would support their learning path in any way I could. I am not sure it would harm or hurt "the family" but I would be concerned for them and try to help them find their way.

Quote:

The past thread on "obligate husband" is what brought me to ask this because I am a little "perplexed" on how religion affects a family big time.

In our home its not about "religion" , it is about spirituality and Faith and belief in God. People change and grow and find their path - but since I believe in God I also must believe in Satan and I do believe He exists and is trying to pull people away from God on an ongoing basis. So tho I don't believe anyone is obligated to stay in a "religion" I do believe when we make vows we obligate ourselves to seek the truth and not put our marriage in jeopardy. I can see that if my husband suddenly decided to change his Faith and relationship with God it would indeed effect our family, our marriage and our vows. We discussed our plans for a family, our faith and how we hoped to live our life together before we were married. Vows are promises.

Quote:

I can't speak for my family basically because I am Pagan and DH is Christian but deep down I think he is fascinated by Paganism and I know his mother is a Neo-Pagan but she's just in denial and says she is a southern baptist..... LOL. My kids have been told by both hubby and I that they can choose to believe whatever they want to believe as long as it is not harming anyone and as long as it is not just a fad or a cult thing.... make sense?

it makes sense. I respect anyones right to their belief system even if I disagree with it of course. I think coming from a family who instilled absolutely no belief system, spirituality, faith in me I was a very confused, lonely, lost child for many years into adulthood and I promised myself I'd not do that with my children but instead make them very sure about the facts as I believe them. What they do with that as adults is up to them - but as children they will have a solid Spiritual education, a secure knowledge that they are loved not only by me but by God the father.

I think your struggle is very personal and no one here is going to be able to give you what you need honestly. I'm sorry your family is in this battle right now and will keep you all in our prayers for resolution. hope some of my answers might help you in some small way.

TicTacToe · 05-12-2006, 08:43 PM

At risk of offending... which is not my intent, I'm at a spot where I'm still learning to accept right now...

In my dh's family it is all or nothing, which is why the turmoil over our leaving. They believe that we are all going to hell and feel that we have betrayed them personally by turning away from the church. Their children are all in private Christian schools and it is expected that they will remain in the same denomination, marry in that denomination and raise their children in that denomination. Period. Anything else is blasphemy and worthy of excommunication, which they still practice.

They separate themselves as much as possible from the rest of the world so that it becomes very difficult to leave. The kids only go to private Christian schools, they do business mostly with each other in the church, the women do not work outside the home for the most part and the men are either farmers or self employed. To them, my dh's first mistake was dating and then marrying me.

I can see the hurt and anger around one partner changing religions because it does cause some serious issues when children are involved. If one partner doesn't believe then the kids will become confused. For a Christian to expose their children to any other set of beliefs is just plain wrong to them.Christian marriage is also supposed to be Christ centered, and if one partner denies it there is a betrayal.

It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that dh made vows to me and to God that he really didn't mean. Well he meant the part to me, but minus the God part. I was also hurt because it was him who asked me to join that church to begin with. We baptised both of our children and to him it was just to save face. It was a lot of hard work and a lot of looooooong discussions to come to a point where we are both accepting of each other, and I have an issue with organized religion anyhow, so I now feel it's okay to question the church. Not God exactly, but the church.

~Denise~ · 05-12-2006, 08:58 PM

Good questions, seriously. I know the answers pretty much, but like you, sometimes am very perplexed and enjoy reading opposing views on this.

For us, we are non-religious. We would be totally fine with any child of ours choosing any *healthy* religious or spiritual path. Regardless of the faith/choice. My older daughter has been allowed to attend church with friends; she attended a Christian (Baptist) church here and was saddended by the bias that particular place held. She has also attended other churches out of curiousity but has not chosen to return or learn more, though she knows we would be fine with it.

For me, I feel most families do raise their kids in accordance with their beliefs. I personally think as long as the child, as they get older, is allowed to explore other religions as they choose, at the appropriate age (older teen perhaps?), it's ok. My only concern, in terms of my kids, would be that I admit I'd take strong issue if they opted to follow a religion that advocated circumcision for their children. To me it's a permanent "mark" on someone else for your own religion, and can not be changed later in life. If my son opted, say, to be circumcised himself, for his religion, that would, for me, be easier to swallow. If my child ever did follow such a religion, I do admit I'd strongly advocate that they not inflict their choice of religion on their child(ren) in such a permanent manner.

Other than that, my kids know they are free to ask, learn, etc. about other beliefs, and I hope one day for my kids to find a path, whether it be as a non-believer like us or otherwise, that fullfills them and makes them content.

Just1Day@Atime · 05-12-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippiemama

I think your struggle is very personal and no one here is going to be able to give you what you need honestly. I'm sorry your family is in this battle right now and will keep you all in our prayers for resolution. hope some of my answers might help you in some small way.

LOL Barb, My family is not battling any religious problems or whatever have ya.... I am just trying to merely educate myself and understand why other families think the way they do so that way I can gain MORE understanding and be able to better see where they are coming from is all....because honestly I can't see their point as an outsider until I hear it from the horse's mouth make sense?

That is why I started this thread, in hopes to gain a better understanding how it works for other families and what the thoughts/beliefs and so on are. There's a family that lives just a few doors down that I constantly wonder about and I can't even begin to understand where she's coming from 95% of the time and I thought it would help to gain some understanding of this so that way next time I am caught in the a discussion as such....... I will be able to actually participate in the discussion rather than saying "uhmmmmm I think I left the water running in the sink" and try for a quick getaway just to change the topic because like I said, I don't understand it all at this time, but hopefully by the end of this thread, I will have gained MORE knowledge and can be prepared to discuss with her or someone else in the future make sense?

I truly hope I have not offended anyone by starting this topic and All I truly wanted to do is gain knowledge and understanding. If I worded something wrong and it seemed - controversial or whatever, I am SO sorry! My train of thoughts just comes and once I have it, I better get it out while I can before the kids get a hold of me and I lose it, Usually I spend time analyzing what I want to say and how I want to say it when I am on the boards, but this time I had nearly no time to analyze, so forgive me

.

Mamax4 · 05-12-2006, 09:12 PM

Have you been drinking beer, Spellbound?

I tend to ask those sorts of questions on Fri nights, once I've poured my wine.

Dannielle · 05-12-2006, 09:28 PM

Thank you, Barb, for typing all that out so I don't have to

Just1Day@Atime · 05-12-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamax4

Have you been drinking beer, Spellbound?

I tend to ask those sorts of questions on Fri nights, once I've poured my wine.

no I don't hardly ever drink and I didn't have anything to drink tonight hehehe, Sorry to disappoint?

hannahsorchard · 05-12-2006, 09:57 PM

I also agree with Barb on basically everything she said and also thank her for saving me some finger cramps

lol

Zanymom · 05-12-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Does your faith or religion HAVE to define every move you make in life? Does it HAVE to be a "believe" or burn in eternal ****ation situation for you? Do you "force" your kids to believe the same beliefs as you do? What if your child suddenly wanted to believe something that was totally opposite from what you DO follow, how come it will harm or hurt the family?

I will answer some of the questions since you answered my thread.

In the LDS faith it is taken very seriously. For instance if Dh became active in church again and did all that he was suppose to, but I didn't he would loose me and our kids in the next life, after we die. Since me and the kids weren't "sealed" to him in the temple we won't be able to go to the highest level of heaven. Dh would have a chance to remarry since he was faithful and then he would be able to become a God and have a family in the next life. But me and the kids would loose our reproductive organs (become smooth "vay down there"),be unable to have families and we would become servants to Gods for the ret of eternity. We wouldn't be in "hell", it would be a nicer place than this earth, but we couldn't be with our family.

So yeah it is a big deal to our families that we aren't going to church and that me and the kids haven't been through the temple. I however cannot believe in a God that would seperate a family after death.

When I was younger it wasn't a choice for me to go or stay home from church. I HAD to go. And my parents made me go to all the weekly activites and the daily seminary in school. As long as I was in my parents house I had to be a Mormon. Even after I was married and became inactive, practically every week for 2 years my family would ask me if I was going to church.

The church also has rules that in my family we HAD to obey, things about what we ate and wore, how we had our hair, how many earings we had, what kind of movies and books we could have,....the list goes on and on. I was also sent to an LDS college. Oh and my family didn't like me to have non-LDS friends or boyfriends. So yeah it was pretty much forced on me, though until now I didn't realize how much it was forced.

I don't want my kids to live like that. I want them to feel free to explore different religions and find out for themselves what they believe.

Ummm, did I answer any of your questions? LOL, can you see why it is such a big deal in mine and dh's families?

Just1Day@Atime · 05-13-2006, 01:26 AM

Zany-

I understand better now about your situation.....but I like you can't see families being seperated after death but then again, I don't believe in heaven OR hell......... I believe in reincarnation.......although I might hang back as a ghost for a while just to have some fun messing with some folks until it's time for me to be "born" again.......

since you shedded some light on the LDS faith, I have a little bit of a better understanding of what their beliefs are and I can understand the conflict that you are going through.

I certainly DO understand your position on where kiddos are involved. I was forced to believe that "Church" was the answer to all my problems for years from my parents and trust me, forgive me for saying this but I would be all up in BARFVILLE if someone say that to me to this day because I cannot bring myself to share the same beliefs as they do although I respect other people's beliefs and will take the time to learn about them, I suppose that everyone needs something to believe in or in atheist cases, not. LOL

I truly do hope you find some answers soon and hopefully everything will fall into place soon. I can tell by reading between your words you are concerned, frightened to some degrees, in need of major guidance of sorts....... whether they be divine guidances or human guidance ya know and I hope it comes soon for you as well to put your mind and soul at ease. With that said, I am off to light a candle for you and your family Zany, I hope that is ok!

punkin · 05-13-2006, 01:27 AM

love your answers barb. you have a great way of putting it all into words.

Sabra · 05-13-2006, 02:07 AM

I am Episcopalian. My usual joke is you're safe from going to Hell unless you use the wrong fork.

We do not, as a Church, presume to dictate either how another person finds her way to God, or who goes to Heaven or Hell. Though there is a deal of variation amongst the individual churches, the ECUSA in general is known for not only its ecumenism but also its pagan friendliness.

That said, I would not be a member were I not devout, and I consider it part of my duty as a parent to not neglect their Spiritual upbringing. I would no sooner do that than I would let them ride without a car seat, or not teach them how to read.

wethreepeeps · 05-13-2006, 03:11 AM

My kids and I go to the UU church. I consider myself a quantum theorist/white lighter/total freak with strong leanings towards buddhism, and my 9 year old daughter considers herself a Wiccan who identifies mostly closely with a Buddhist aspect of the goddess, White Tara. My 7 year old just likes spending time with Ms. Shannon and her son on Sundays and having a snack during class. To me, my spiritual beliefs inform every aspect of my life because I believe that my very soul is made up of a small spark of the divine, that I'm a channel, a vessel, and that without that we wouldn't be alive, whether we recognize it or not. But since my spiritual beliefs are creedless and lacking in dogma, they don't dictate my actions in as clear-cut a way as many other spiritual paths do. My belief in the reciprocal nature of energy in the 'verse provides me with a framework on which to base my choices, but not a set of commandments to live by.

Rident_Mama · 05-13-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpellboundSecrets

.... Now this might end up offending someone or whatnot and in advance I am apologizing for it....

No offense taken whatsoever! Like you said, you're trying to better understand a situation, and really, what better way to understand (short of living it) than to ask?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpellboundSecrets

Does your faith or religion HAVE to define every move you make in life?

My faith is Christian...but not in the traditional sense. The Bible guides me in many aspects of my life, but does not get into the nitty-gritty details of hair style, how to dress, how my daily routine should be setup, what kind of sofa to buy, etc. What God's Word does tell me is to obey a set of commandments not just physically, but mentally/spiritually/emotionally as well. While God does give these commandments, He also gave every one of us our own free will, and it is our decision as to what we do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpellboundSecrets

Does it HAVE to be a "believe" or burn in eternal ****ation situation for you?

We do not believe in a fiery pit of hell where poor souls are tortured for eternity. What kind of loving, merciful, gracious God would do that? What we believe is that God is calling a few people out at this time to His truth...at Christ's return, those whom He has called at this time will be teachers to those who were not called at this time...throw in a resurrection, and everyone throughout time will have the opportunity to personally know God and His truth, and will have the opportunity to reside with Him for eternity as part of the God family. So while I am hoping that God will chose me during this physical lifetime to be one of His future teachers, I know that no matter what, I will have the opportunity to be a member of His spiritual family.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpellboundSecrets

Do you "force" your kids to believe the same beliefs as you do?

We will raise our children just as our parents raised us...in our religion/faith. About the time of high school, I was allowed (actually encouraged) to look into other religions/faiths as something that I might change my spiritual path to. While I looked into numerous religions/faiths (Islam, LDS, traditional Christian churches, etc.), I realized that it did not mesh with what I believed in my heart & mind. The experience allowed me to confirm my beliefs to myself. I hope to allow my children the same opportunity, which leads us to the next question:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpellboundSecrets

What if your child suddenly wanted to believe something that was totally opposite from what you DO follow, how come it will harm or hurt the family?

I believe that only God can call whom He will right now. I will admit that it would make me upset at first, I understand that I cannot live someone else's life for them, and cannot force my child (who has their own free will) to believe the same as I do (I don't think that even the brethren in our congregations have identical beliefs). Yes, it would hurt, but it is something that we would have to learn to live with in order to maintain harmony within the family (DH's parents & siblings have actually changed their religious viewpoint since his childhood, so we've actually experienced this, but in reverse...everyone gets along just fine, and we all understand that we each have a different path in life to follow).

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpellboundSecrets

The past thread on "obligate husband" is what brought me to ask this because I am a little "perplexed" on how religion affects a family big time.

Religion is not a once-a-week event, it is a way of life. Therefore, to change from a particular religion would affect the whole family. It's just a matter of putting into practice the beliefs of your religion (for example: unconditional love) to keep it from becoming something that would drive the family apart. (although I'm not saying that it can't happen, because I've heard of plenty of cases where it has happened, even though they tried to keep everyone together).

Well, that was my 2 cents...just as the OP stated, I'm not out to offend anyone, and I do apologize if I did.