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Old 03-12-2005, 11:58 AM   #1 (permalink)
Momof6
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Question Anyone have anger that comes and goes regarding another religion?

Don't attempt to read this unless you have a clear head and open heart/mind. *LOL*

This honestly bothers me about myself. Maybe I just need to grow up and mature a bit? But I thought I had, and then I get angry and agitated again which makes me so disappointed in myself. I'm falling so short of the teachings I try to follow.

This post will be hard to share with being true to getting across what I am trying to say here without offending or misrepresenting myself.

I hate to label myself at all but I think many here have a bit of a grasp on my beliefs since I have posted so much over the years. If you need a label, call me interfaith with heavy pagan and eastern beliefs who admires and gets nourishment from the teachings of Jesus as well as other gurus. (not trying to belittle Jesus, please don't take how I view him as a insult as it is not meant to be)

I also spent a good deal of time reading the Bible in the past several months. I told my husband that Jesus is one I admire so much and also believe his teachings to be good. But I don't see him as *the* God.....maybe *a* God but that does not really matter in this post anyway so I'll stop there with that line of thinking.

The problem I have that flares up every once in a while is with the Christian churches and this usually is touched off by my space being infringed upon by some boisterous/pushy person of this faith. I find myself more frustrated, mostly due to the President and his beliefs and the fact that I really loathe him and he is a continual boisterous/pushy person in my mind. That and add to it St. Patricks Day which honestly does bother me and I get tired of explaining to others (family) that I do not honor nor respect St. Patrick in any way, but we do honor our Irish heritage. (seems both are celebrated on St. Patricks day)

I don't know how to explain things. But I am just in a irritated and angry phase again and am really disappointed in myself for this. I really thought I was beyond this but sometimes I think my reading of the Bible (Jesus teachings....not all the Bible) has made my frustration with modern day Christian church even worse.

I see a very big difference between being Christ-Like and being Christian. I have met some Christians (only online to be honest) who are Christ-like but for the most part I see these two terms as not meaning the same thing and the latter seems to frustrate me.

It is hard trying to teach my children that I think Jesus was a great teacher and example of a human being but that he is not what we see in many modern day Christian churches. The two are so different to me and it frustrates me.

Due to my immaturity and admitted ignorance, I may just be taking this frustration and positioning it towards fundamentialist Christians. (thinking extreme right wing like Fallwell, Pat Robertson, Bob Jones, and the like....including local churches) I don't want to be discriminating against one religion but I really do struggle sometimes.

We do off and on attend a loca Episcopal church which I am thinking maybe we should not with my challenges and frustrations and how difficult it is to keep my children from not being taught things I disagree with but yet get them the things I want them to learn. There are not any other groups here and I am one who longs for community. Most of the professed "pagans" I have met IN REAL LIFE are really not connected with reality....they are either in it for the shock value, are mentally unstable, or are so flighty and flakey that I can't get a coherent conversation going. Forgive me for sounding like such a big jerk. Never been in a area with a Buddhist community, nor a really liberal Christian church, nor a UU organization blah blah blah......(you get the picture)

I often think I could easily be a Christ follower if it were not for the bad influence of most modern day Christian groups and churches. [sigh] That is a nice fit when it is just me reading about his teachings (love your neighbor, help the poor etc....) but put me in nearly any group or church and I get soooo angry and frustrated.


Then again, I find that I agree with secular humanism more than I'd like to and that bothers me becuase I want to belive in SOMTHING....beyond what human nature has to offer. I am so frustrated.

I'm open to comments.....hoping someone else struggles at times with the same thing who is a bit more mature than I am who can give me some guideance.

Michelle
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Old 03-12-2005, 12:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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There is a section in Ram Dass' "Cultivating Compassion" about anger. He also talks about being judged by other religions (he makes light of having been called the anti-christ upon many an occasion in his life ) in the same section. Of course, right now in my lack of caffeine, head cold stuffed brain, stayed up too late last night state of being I cannot seem to type out the eloquent explanation that he gives. lol. I will come back after my head has cleared a bit and expound on what he says. In the meantime know that feelings of anger are no more 'good' or 'bad' than other feelings. Feelings are what happends when we attach our stories to situations. Begin by just noticing your feelings of anger, but giving them no more and no less attention than your other feelings. Just notice it. Oh - lookie there - I feel anger. huh. yup. ... just notice.

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Old 03-12-2005, 12:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakshmi_mama
There is a section in Ram Dass' "Cultivating Compassion" about anger. He also talks about being judged by other religions (he makes light of having been called the anti-christ upon many an occasion in his life ) in the same section. Of course, right now in my lack of caffeine, head cold stuffed brain, stayed up too late last night state of being I cannot seem to type out the eloquent explanation that he gives. lol. I will come back after my head has cleared a bit and expound on what he says. In the meantime know that feelings of anger are no more 'good' or 'bad' than other feelings. Feelings are what happends when we attach our stories to situations. Begin by just noticing your feelings of anger, but giving them no more and no less attention than your other feelings. Just notice it. Oh - lookie there - I feel anger. huh. yup. ... just notice.

namaste!
Ooh! I look forward to reading more of your thoughts. Those you shared really were good for me. I will try to inter-library loan that book too. Please share more later on, you seem to be along my wavelength in where you are coming from.

Michelle
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Old 03-12-2005, 06:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Oooh, I do get angry. I hate getting angry; the fact that anything has such a hold on me like that is not good. My next-door neighbors are christan fundamentalists, so this is the example I have to go by. They're very nice, sweet, helpful people - if you think exactly like them. My neighbor has absolutely no problem coming over by me (when I'm outside) and after some small talk, will then tell me how I'm going to hell if I don't accept Jesus as my savior. They will not let you in their house if you are not family or go to their church. They have absolutely no problem asking us for help, but when they see me struggling with kids and groceries or whatever, they'll just wave and run back inside. (I'm really not THAT scary looking!) I could go on and on. During the last hurricane season, they had us putting plywood up in their windows. Seems were good enough to help them and then we'll go straight to hell.

So, yes, I do get quite angry. My dh has to constantly remind me that all christians are not like them. But I'll tell you, the people that I meet that talk about christianity all the time seem to be just like my neighbors.

Okay, I'm done ranting now. Thankfully, we're moving this weekend. They're probably celebrating. Better be careful what you ask for though; who knows what the people are like that are going to move in here!
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Old 03-12-2005, 06:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think I understand some of your frustrations. The modern Christian Church (most denominations, but not all) is not very reflective of the *actual* writings in the bible. Fundamentalist groups are the loudest in this country, as well, making it hard to find moderate/liberal churches anymore.

I personally have yet to find a religion that really calls to me. I am not one to believe in Jesus as a savior, nor do I feel him to be divine more than other humans. So I don't really feel comfortable in Christian churches, although I was raised in them. I'd love to find a group in which I could raise my children, as I really cherish my church family from when I was a child. But I cannot find a church that isn't heading the was of the fundamentalist anymore.

This has turned into a "all about me" post. Sorry about that. I hope that something I said helped you. Hope you can find somewhere that you can feel comfortable and fulfilled.
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Old 03-12-2005, 06:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Robin,

Have you tried the Unitarian Universalists churches? We belong to one now and love it! You may find it very comfortable there.
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Old 03-12-2005, 07:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryhannahkali
Have you tried the Unitarian Universalists churches?
I am not of the "correct" political mind to be comfortable at our local UU.
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Old 03-12-2005, 10:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Your personal stories are of great help!!

Please feel free to share anything that comes to mind. You never know what you may type that may really help.

It just seems like I have been getting more and more angry and pessimistic...especially since the election since that ties into my frustrations with the country, religion, my rights and the like.

I find myself sighing a lot......

Michelle
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Old 03-13-2005, 01:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't have a problem with Christians as a whole, but I'm very uncomfortable around certain Christian's yes. And at times I feel a deep anger towards particular Christians regarding their beliefs and their actions. I am very intimidated and fearful of many Christians - and I find that quite sad because I have met a handful of Christians irl that were very godly people, and if more people were like them I would be drawn to Christianity. Instead I'm pushed away by the negativity and the judgements. I have past abuse issues relating to religion though, so that might have a lot to do with my anger/frustration/fear.
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Old 03-13-2005, 12:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm sure the same thing is present in other dominant religions.....like if I lived in a mostly Muslim community or Jewish or (substitute Patriarchal name here) I may be talking about one of those rather than Christianity. However, Christianity is my surroundings and experiences.

I have a draw but a revulsion to it. I am drawn to the teachings I read in the Bible and this makes me want to attend a group...but every experience I have had IRL is not with Christ-like people.....but with the organized very right leaning Christian manner. Hence, my anger at the entire thing.

Then I get so disappointed with myself for my frustration and anger and trying not to teach this to my children by my own struggles.

Maybe what I am reading about Christs actual teachings in the Bible is not what Christian churches are built around now a days? Just so frustrating and maybe I just need to accept that I am and will be on my own spiritually speaking as long as we live in the rural midwest. (which will be forever *lol*)

Maybe I am being judgemental and difficult. I am willing to entertain that thought especially due to my not so good experiences with Christian churches in the past. (however I did choose for some reason to attend two that are extreme.....again no liberal offerings)

I'm just blowing hot air around now............and not making much sense.

I don't want this to be a negative thread on Christianity....I just am so frustrated at what I see. But then I read that what I see and experience is suppose to be only a very vocal *minority* within Christianity? I have a hard time buying this since it seems to be the majority around my sphere of life.

Then enters the anger again.

ugh!

Michelle
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Old 03-13-2005, 01:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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This is very long - I hope it helps though. :)



I just re-read this and realize it is really long. I am sorry about that, but I hope you can take the time to read it through. It comes totally from my heart.

What you are describing is sooooooooo understandable.

And exactly why I personally do not like organized religion.

I do not and would not speak for anyone else, just what I have learned along my life's journey.

I used to go to church when I was young. I loved going with my grandmother, who died when I was 10. She was exactly what I think of when I think of someone who follows Christ. Everyone loved her. She was so wonderful and loving.

As I grew older, I resented hearing the Bible being told from someone else's point of view. The Bible says that you should read it with the heart of a child, and that is very hard for many people to do, they take things out of context and twist them to suit their own agendas. Not all are like that, but I have encountered enough like that to know they are not serving God...

Jesus said that there will be many who will say they KNEW him, but he will tell them HE does not know them. There are many who pretend to be followers, but they are not. This is to confuse people so they don't know what to believe.

"Religion" is like filthy rags to God/Yahweh. Whenever I hear that someone is extremely "religious" it makes me want to run the other way.

I respect all people, and certainly don't force my views upon them. I think that we all have enough on our own plates, and don't need to tell others what to do or believe, if you want to make it a better world then I think a person has to work on themself, not anyone else. And if the way you live your own life has a positive effect on someone else's then that is great.

I tithe by giving of myself, of my own resources and time. The 10% tithing that so many often quote is being taken out of context. If you give 10% and you are mad that you have to do it, or act like it is a big burden or a chore, then that is worse than giving nothing. If you are giving in the spirit of love, you give 10% and usually more. It doesn't just mean giving MONEY. And that is something else I don't like about these big churches.

I saw some ugly things in churches. I stopped going regularly when I was 18. I would go from time to time. About 6 years ago, I had a friend who invited me to her church and I really liked and admired her. She is definitely Christ-like. We went to the church for a while, but I saw things I did not like. Then when this friend's baby died of SIDS at only a few weeks old, I saw/heard something very disturbing. I had visited my friend in their home and brought food, as many did. They did not attend church for a couple of weeks. The Sunday after the baby's funeral, the pastor's wife and my friend's supposed good friend were in charge of the nursery. (my friend's husband was usually the one in the nursery, he was great with kids.) I left my then toddler in the nursery with these two and went to Sunday school. When I came back, I looked in the window to check on him, only to see him crying on the floor and these two women gossiping. I waited a minute to see if either would pick him up. NO, they did not. So, I sent my older two down to the chapel without me, and I went in and picked up my child and sat with him in the rocking chair. They just basically said how good he was and how he just started crying when he saw me. (yeah, right) So I nurse and rock him as they continue to gossip. They were gossiping about my friend whose baby died. The "good" friend said to the minister's wife that she was over at the house, helping with some cleaning and how the house was a big mess! Then she said something that ripped my heart into pieces. Still talking to the minister's wife (like I was invisible) she said that my friend kept holding, cradling and smelling the baby's car seat cover because she said it smelled like her baby, but that she (the "good" friend) went over when my friend wasn't looking and picked it up and smelled it herself and it did not smell anything but MUSTY! I gave them both a glare and took my son and left that nursery, gathered my children and never went back. THOSE PEOPLE WERE FALSE CHRISTIANS!

What did it for me also, years ago, was seeing the Bakker's on TV, my MIL would watch them. Tammy Faye in her $1000 leather suit, with her black mascara tears running down her face, begging for money. And then when her husband takes the rap and goes to jail, what does she do? She leaves him, like she had no responsibility in everything they did.

There are "false" christians... Plenty of them.

In the scripture, over and over again - we are commanded to "love one another". In the book of John, Jesus says it many times.

Some examples in John:
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
John 15:12 - This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:17 - These things I command you, that ye love one another.
MORE:
1 John 3:11 - For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1 John 4:12 - No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

In the book of Romans, Paul talks about how we are to live. Romans 13:8 says: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

And older women are to be examples in love for younger women, to help encourage and equip them in their own path. EXAMPLES, not telling anyone else what to do. The only thing we are supposed to do is LOVE.



I hope I did not go to overboard on LOVE... But it really is the most important thing. And sometimes people can be very unlovable. Usually it is the case that when someone is the most unlovable, that they need love the most.

MY DH tells younger people, what it is all about is helping other people, when you get to heaven that is what God is going to want to know about, and we will all be dead in 50 years, what difference will it make then? It is less about why are we here, as who are we here for.

I don't know if this answers what you were talking about - I hope I am making some sense.

I am very spiritual, I want to feed my soul... I don't have a "religion" and the world is my church. I feel God's presence at the ocean and in the mountains or just looking out my back door, then I ever did sitting in a "building".

Much love and hugs~

Wanda
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Old 03-13-2005, 03:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I used to feel similarly, but now I just ignore. Part of it for me is becoming very comfortable with MY beliefs, that way it feel as bothersome when others have theirs. One book I'd really recommend reading (I recommend it all the time) is "Finding Your Religion" by Scotty McLellan.
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Old 03-13-2005, 10:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You remind me so much of myself before I started studying to be a Witness. Part of my anger was towards Catholics because of the things that I saw and heard growing up. Now that I older, I try to be more tolerant of others and their belief system. I find that if I listen with an open mind, I see that my choices are right for me.

Someone mentioned reading the bible with the heart of a child. Children have such oopenness about them. They are willing to listen and learn, asking questions as they go along. No one seems to mind. As adults, we become hostile towards others who, for whatever reason, do not believe as we do. Such is a shame. Jesus was a great teacher. We all should strive to be more like him.

Just my .02

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Old 03-13-2005, 10:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If you are looking for perfection, you aren't going to find it in any Christian The beauty of Christianity, and God, is that there are so many paths or groups as there are people who are searching. I used to be frustrated by this, too. I realized I just neede to work on myself and focus. Jesus teaches to love as He loved. This is not easy, and I have many lessons to learn about perfect love. My church is a way of eaching me about perfect love, how to give and accept it. My church family also teaches me this - in the brothers and sisters I do not like, but have to love. This said, I admit to often not calling myself a Christian for two reasons: one, I do not feel worthy of the title, and because there are many who call themselves Christian, and with whom I do not want to be associated. I belong to a faith with a very looooooong history of following Christ, but it took a while to find a parish where I belonged. My politics are very different from others there, and they know where I stand. It's just another obstacle to learning to give and accept love with no conditions. hope this helps. Peace to you.
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Old 03-14-2005, 12:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Wanda,

Are you teaching about Jesus to your children? If so, how are you and what do you do when they come home (not sure of their ages) with totally warped ideas that their fellow Christian friends are saying?

Michelle
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