Originally posted by luv4sophie So should we ask the wahm outright if they are using a pattern or not? Should we ask if they make the patchwork themselves or used prepatched? Would this offend?
I too, know how I feel about it.
I guess my question to you would be, why do you want to know? Is it just curiosity? Do you want to call her on it? What is the motivation? Do you want to buy it, but only if it is hand made? Will the answer you find out lead you to some particular purpose?
I don't think the question in itself is offending. Heck, people ask me construction questions or fabric questions regarding my covers all the time.
I guess I'm just trying to find out what you are getting at. It is rhetorical, so you don't really have to answer.
__________________
************
My Parenting Blog! Respond with Love
I ran the Inaugural Fresno Marathon and lived to tell the tale!
Love on granite Let go of all your heart’s holding
Everything weighing you down
And lay here with me, let the world be
For now
~Catie Curtis -For Now- from the Sweet Life album~
****************************************
Last edited by ThirtySomething : 12-07-2003 at 07:24 PM.
I think this thread is totally valuable. The topic actually has come up before.
Illegal is Illegal. That is true.
Some things bother me about it. Other things not so much. However, that is probably because it really isn't in my line of work yk? I don't feel it so close to home. Again, that doesn't make it right. It just means I don't give it quite as much thought as other people do.
The whole argument of:
"There is only so many ways to put together a pair of pants, shirt, diaper cover, etc..." is true.
That doesn't mean that copying a pattern is suddenly ok. Copying a pattern because there isn't a different and original way to put them together is still copying.
I do hope that people have been helped by this information.
Originally posted by arasmama The complaint that you posted a link to is about them using the term "shabby chic" in their auctions. Not about them using fabric. That case hasn't been settled.
I did read through the disney case, it wasn't settled in court. Disney is allowing them to sell on ebay. That isn't really "winning", just getting the right. That is hardly a case precedent, which is why disney settled out of court.
Actually Allison, if you will scroll down, the page contains all of the lawsuits they have been involved in, as well as some useful links on the law. There is a precious moments case there as well that was taken to court (not theirs, a case that went to court in 1997), and it seems from my quick scan of it that the person using the prints won the lawsuit.
I don't particularily like character prints, as a matter of fact, I have only ever bought one-- a teletubbies flannel to make liam a pr of pj pants and a pillowcase-- pj's i cna live with, lol . I haven't read all of the law,as a matter of fact I haven't read much other than what this site here points to as reference material. I am merely suggesting that those interested in using character prints might want to go here-- the peoplewho own the site have clearly done quite a bit of research on the law, and have gathered a useful collection of links.
It IS interesting to me that not one of the companies that they have dealt with has taken them to court and won on this-- that indicates to me that the law must be unclear on this usage, as they indicate. Again, because it has no real bearing on me or my livelihood, I haven't read the law in detail. I DO know that you can not replicate the image-- in other words paint, embroider, etc that image on anything-- that is definetly infringement. i think the issue becomes murkier when you are talking about liscences, purhased fabric.. at least thats what I have ascertained from the quick bit of reading i have done (in between installing countertops and a sink in my kitchen today, lol-- waiting on DH to get back from Lowes rigth now as a matter of fact, lol).
ok, gotta run and at least look busy when he gets back (although I can't really do anything but clean up until he gets back).
heather
heather
__________________
Heather , mama to Liam, born 12-19-01, and Simon, born 04-17-05 wife to Mark, married 09-23-97
Oops, sorry, I didn't scroll. I just clicked on the first link on that page and started reading and then clicking around.
I think no one has been taken to court because no one wants to set a precedent. It is much easier to intimidate through cease and desist letter and then settle out of court when challenged.
Monica, I think it matters because it is illegal. Maybe you will still buy from people you see doing illegal things in the clothing industry. I, for one, won't. I've worked very hard to build up a *legal* clothing company and I won't support people that try to cut corners.
I'm not sure about your comment:
Frankly there's nothing great about designing your own patterns if you're doing it by copying a style you see in a magazine or on TV or wherever - its not an original idea - its just copying some other designer's hard work..........
Where did anyone say they were copying other people's designs? Cindy simply stated she was using sizing measurements. That is hardly copying designs. All my designs are original, from my head. Heck, t-shirts aren't exactly a new design, but I think that can hardly be called copying.
And, lastly, there are very few designs that are actually original ideas. Most are offshoots of some older fashion, reworked for today.
Location: baking a happiness cake with the ingredients I already have...
Posts: 3,444
Quote:
I doubt whether the OP really has a question or clarification. It seems to be more of a statement to the WAHMs who are "illegally" selling items made from patterns or using character fabric. I can think of 3 Mamas at least who this is directed at (one in particular), and if you ask me - people are going to continue buying from them. Why ? Because they obviously do quality work and who gives a @#$% about whether they "illegally" used a pattern for it or are using licensed fabric.
It bothers me terribly that you are putting illegally in quotes, as if it's subjective whether or not using liscensed character prints (or patterns) is in fact illegal. there's no disputing it, it is illegal to use liscenced prints, and it is illegal to use commercial patterns for resale use. Think what you may about the law, but it IS law. As for "who gives a @#$%", a lot of us care for the same reasons we care that Wal-Mart uses child labor in other countries, because we don't want our money going to support illegal and/or immoral activites.
Quote:
Frankly there's nothing great about designing your own patterns if you're doing it by copying a style you see in a magazine or on TV or wherever - its not an original idea - its just copying some other designer's hard work..........
As for this-so you think that looking at a pattern in a mag and then figuring out how to do it on your own isn't okay, that it's "nothing great" because it's copying another designer's hard work. But then just using thier pattern striaght out isn't bad? I guess outright stealing their hard work is okay, but let's not copy it, that would be wrong.
__________________
Theresa, Mama to AJ, Ethan, Greg + Rusty Little Turtle Knits
I hope that no one person here feels attacked. This thread is so interesting, and valuable I agree.
I know a lot of people who sell things at craft shows that are licensed and I feel very uneasy about it all. I honestly don't know if they know what they are doing is illegal. That's no excuse. Is it my responsibility to do something about it? I just don't purchase or otherwise support them, but really, I wonder if I should be doing more. Nobody wants to be a snitch, but am I part of the problem if I'm not part of the solution?
I've stayed away from licensed fabrics not for legality reasons, but because I don't like anything "commercial" I have in the past and do currently use patterns, but not for anything I sell. Years ago when I was learning to make totes, I used simple patterns til I got the hang of it and made my own custom totes. That's what I sell now. And my yoga mat bags are my own design. As for clothing, I'm still learning, so I'm still sewing from patterns -- but I don't sell clothing.
I admit it does bother me when I see illegal use of products and misrepresentation (not talking about any one person here, I barely know you all ) I've gone through the process of trademarking and copyrighting certain items. It's a long and EXPENSIVE process. You can be sure I will follow suit if I see someone using my design or logo illegally. I've invested a lot of time, money and creative energy in my designs, and no one else should profit from that, IMHO.
Frankly there's nothing great about designing your own patterns if you're doing it by copying a style you see in a magazine or on TV or wherever
would be very offensive to someone who has spent countless hours turning an idea (perhaps inspired by a glimpse of something seen somewhere else) into a successful pattern that works for a range of sizes.
I haven't done much pattern drafting for people clothes at all but I can only guess by the hours and hours of work I've put into designing a basic wardrobe for dolls (whose fronts and backs are the same and they never complain if their clothes are uncomfortable) that designing is an extreme amount of work. To be consistently successful at it is indeed something great in my opinion.
is shouldnt EVERY fabric be investigated by a WAHM as to whether it is allowed to be used for commercial purposes. I mean I would think almost any printed design "could" be a copyrighted design that the maker doesnt want used for resale without permission. Like the link Kori posted to the fabric she mentioned - it was just a design of ice cream cones and popsicles and said right there on the site "not for resale - home use only" or whatever. I think many people assume only trademarked characters like Bob the Builder are in question but I bet even if you found a similar design like construction trucks or many of the quality quilt fabrics out there with pretty designs, they may not want you making things out of it to resell. Just wondering if anyone had concerns about it. I had honestly not thought about it before. I generally steer clear of "commercial" things as well but my son loves tractors and I bought some WAHM pants with John Deere fabric but I bet that one is a no-no too!
Location: baking a happiness cake with the ingredients I already have...
Posts: 3,444
Quote:
I would think statements such as
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frankly there's nothing great about designing your own patterns if you're doing it by copying a style you see in a magazine or on TV or wherever
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
would be very offensive to someone who has spent countless hours turning an idea (perhaps inspired by a glimpse of something seen somewhere else) into a successful pattern that works for a range of sizes.
You'r right Dannielle, it is offensive. Perhaps that's why I got a bit snippy in my reply, because I (as a desinger, albeit not a sewing designer but a knit designer, still a designer, LOL!) take using patterns for profit very seriously. It makes me angry taht I can spend hours (and hours and hours!) designing a pattern, getting the sizing, shaping and all the other details perfect, and then someone turns around and sells something from my pattern. Looking at a picture in a magazine does NOT tell you the size, shaping, measurements, or anything of value besides a geenral *look*- these must all come from the designer's head, and it's not easy.
I guess my question to you would be, why do you want to know? Is it just curiosity? Do you want to call her on it? What is the motivation? Do you want to buy it, but only if it is hand made? Will the answer you find out lead you to some particular purpose?
Really I am just curious as to why Meeshi got flamed and called a hypocrite for asking for a burned CD, yet no one says boo to wahms who use Dora or SpongeBob(examples) for resale. Why the double standard? The answer will lead me no where except to understand this matter a little better. I have no plans on turning this into the FDA and wahm pads thread pt.2 or anything. I won't blow the whistle or anything like that. I am not mean spirited. I wouldn't *bait* people into replying to prove em wrong or anything.
Theresa mentioned the craft fair thread. I'm going to search for it as I remember replying but not the details..
Oh and to the person who said
Quote:
I doubt whether the OP really has a question or clarification. It seems to be more of a statement to the WAHMs who are "illegally" selling items made from patterns or using character fabric. I can think of 3 Mamas at least who this is directed at (one in particular), and if you ask me - people are going to continue buying from them. Why ? Because they obviously do quality work and who gives a @#$% about whether they "illegally" used a pattern for it or are using licensed fabric.
Look if I were going to make a statement I would go through and think of ALL the wahms who are misusing copyrighted items and call em out. I'm not doing that because this is about learning for me. Who in particular is this directed at oh wise psychic mama? Really I don't even think we have ever replied to the same thread before but now you know me and my intentions. PFFFT! I do give a @#$% about whether or not a person(ANY business) misuses a pattern or what have you. Why shouldn't I care? People get their panties in a bunch about WM and their child labor so should we NOT care because it makes the item cheaper? Should we always turn our heads if it benefits us? When is it okay to stand by and let these things continue?
I'm not here to call anyone out but maybe they honestly just didn't know. Maybe they will be educated. Maybe their solution will be going to JoAnns during the 99 cent pattern sales and buying extra patterns for what they make and sell and sending along that pattern to make it legal.
Really folks I'm just here to learn.
~Meghan
John Deere is licensed, I just looked. I've actually made pants out it before, but it was bought and sent to me. Later she had me resell them for her though, I wonder how legal that was?
I don't know if there is a way for people to know for sure unless they buy strictly wholesale or it says on the selvage. I know some say on the selvage, I'm not sure that all do.
Lots of non character prints are licensed. This one, for instance
Now, here is something I was just wondering about, a lot of us buy PRR, and while most of us just use it to make clothing for our children, I am now wondering if is it also protected?
__________________
Mary,
momma to Tyler 5-14-03 And Maya 1-19-2001
And Ciara 1-14-06
I think all designs are copyrighted. That means you can't take that picture and use it elsewhere, like digitize it into an embroidry design, etc. You can make clothing out of it.
I've often wondered the same thing, Mary. I have no clue though. I think it is most likely okay to use them. They don't state they are licensed and they don't restrict who they sell them to. They are copyrighted, but that is different.
Location: baking a happiness cake with the ingredients I already have...
Posts: 3,444
copyrighted and liscened in fabric are two different things. Copyrighted means that you can't copy the image and use it on other fabric or any other medium (for instance, you can't take the dinos from PRR and use them on notecards, etc) Liscenced means that you can't use the fab for resale items. At least, that's my understanding of it all.
Linear Mode
