amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

Shifra · 04-20-2005, 06:20 PM

First supporting this mom in any decision she makes is good.
Jumping in very late on this one, but I have to second each and every post by Joy. I am a nurse and IBCLC. I have worked in Rheumatology and OB only. Interesting combination, but gives me quite a bit of background on this issue.
Hale is the expert in Medication and excretion into mothers milk. Please do not pull random information of hte Web and quote it as reliable. All of us should know better! Just because it is online in print does not make it true!
As for the methotrexate reference as chemo, yes it is. It attacks the killer cells in RA that are essentially attacking the body. RA is a variation of a autoimmune disease and spreads similar to the way cancer does. It has been used for many years and was a drug of choice waaaay back when I was in that area 12 years ago.
KNOWLEGDE IS POWER, if you do not know better you can not do better!
Peace-
Karen

Morgansma · 04-20-2005, 06:52 PM

Hale is the expert in Medication and excretion into mothers milk. Please do not pull random information of hte Web and quote it as reliable. All of us should know better! Just because it is online in print does not make it true!
As for the methotrexate reference as chemo, yes it is. It attacks the killer cells in RA that are essentially attacking the body. RA is a variation of a autoimmune disease and spreads similar to the way cancer does. It has been used for many years and was a drug of choice waaaay back when I was in that area 12 years ago.
KNOWLEGDE IS POWER, if you do not know better you can not do better!
Peace-
Karen[/quote]

I don't know who exactly you are referring to with your "pulling random information off the web" but since you are knowledgable on this topic would you please also include an explanation of the side effects, long term effects, etc. of using a chemotherapy drug. A "drug of choice" does not a good decision make. Let's trade one problem for another.

And I was not linking an unreliable source. Most people are not aware that they can request a fact sheet on drugs. It's not something that the doctors or hospitals hand out. After all, we wouldn't want anyone to know what they are taking.

mum2tori · 04-20-2005, 06:57 PM

Okay my Hale book (02) says its okay in acute usage but contradictary in chronic use.

How long does your Doctor wish you to be on Methotrexate? I agree that you should make a decision that you are comfortable with but you also need to be as well informed as possible in making that decision.

There is the link to the section discussing Methotrexate on Dr. Hale's forum.

http://neonatal.ama.ttuhsc.edu/discus/messages/48/1322.html

Monie · 04-20-2005, 06:59 PM

Hi Michelle/momtoboys. I've been thinking about you ever since I read your post.
I was diagnosed with RA in 1998, at 23. I know what you are going through. I have been on methotrexate off and on since then, and it truly is my "wonder drug". I have tried everything from elimination diets to alternative meds, and this is the only thing that worked for me. I went through severe depression before I was able to accept it.
I wasn't nursing at the time, but I do remember how wonderful it was when the drugs finally kicked in and I was able to do normal things, like hold my child, without the pain. You will feel like a whole new person when you find what works for you. There are other choices besides the methotrexate, but it usually works for people, so the doctors try it first.
Please pm or email me if you would like to talk to someone who's been there.

jessica_momof7 · 04-20-2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momtoboys

I found this on the internet:

Drugs That Are NOT Safe While Nursing:
Methotrexate (for arthritis): Can suppress the baby's immune system; unknown effect on growth or association with carcinogenesis; neutropenia.

could we have your source for this please?

I agree with a lot of what has been said above. Dr Hale is the expert in medications during breastfeeding. he does the research. I would trust him more than any other source out there.

To the OP..mama, I am sorry that you are going through this. I would just say to do your research and do additional testing if you don't trust the diagnosis. I would hate to see you give up BF and in 2 months find that you really don't have RA and you gave it up for nothing. I only say this because I lost my first real nursing relationship to a hasty decision, and I tried to relactate, couldn't and regretted it for a long time.

We will be here to support you no matter what you decide. I hope that some of this information that has been posted will help you in the ways that you need it.

LifesaBeach · 04-20-2005, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momtoboys

This is kinda what I wondering about. They think I also have some sort of virus because I have a rash and had fevers up to 104. Whatever it is...I want it gone!

this may be a really stupid suggestion but I'll say it anyway...

over a year ago I got fifths disease. Marked by high fever, rash and intense, incredible, joint pain. I could hardly move...couldn't grip a cup and the pain of walking was unbearable. I read online that it could take an adult up to 6 months to recover. It took me almost 5 weeks.

I know you are probably really tired of being sick and in pain...I hope you can find some relief. Hopefully you will see a couple of Dr.s and get a couple of second opinions before you quit breastfeeding.

amey · 04-20-2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgansma

And I was not linking an unreliable source. Most people are not aware that they can request a fact sheet on drugs. It's not something that the doctors or hospitals hand out. After all, we wouldn't want anyone to know what they are taking.

True. I am only going to comment on one part of this and it is to say that often the PDR and other texts used by physicians are using the information provided to them by the pharmaceutical companies. Generally speaking, these companies have not tested their drug on lactating women. Thomas Hale (a pharmacologist, if I remember correctly) has studied the affect of certain drugs on lactating women and their babies. Many drugs have a molecular weight too great to even enter breastmilk and are therefore fine for a breastfeeding mother. Others have short half-lives and can be taken when timed appropriately. Much of this information is not available in resources other than Hale's (referenced) book. Hale's Medications and Mother's Milk is available to the general public - your local bookstore or library may have it or be able to get it for you quickly. It's also available from LLL. Ruth Lawrence's book is also widely available.

If a mother seriously wants to continue breastfeeding, it is worth it for her to do some of her own research. There are times that a physician is NOT fully informed on the options available. Many times they see breastfeeding as something easily abandoned as there is formula available and it's "just as good."

I have met many mothers who get information about a drug/condition/what have you months after she's weaned for that reason and then find out that they could've continued to breastfeed, if only she had had access to more information. Joy is not making the decision for this mother - she can't. What she is doing is giving information. Here are the tools, you decide which ones might be helpful for the task at hand.

~amey

Victoria · 04-20-2005, 09:27 PM

I'm so sorry you're having to endure the pain of this decision while dealing with the pain of RA (or whatever else might be causing the pain). I'm surprised that no one has recommended getting a second opinion. I know before taking such a potent drug, regardless of breastfeeding, I would make sure that was the best recourse and I had a correct diagnosis. I would also try to make sure the 2nd opinion was wess informed about breastfeeding and medications, and willing to do the research rather than taking the easy way out.
Thomas Hale is the authority on breastfeeding and medication. I would trust him before any doctor or drug company. He also has a book called "Clinical Therapy" It may have a section on RA. If it does, it would cover appropriate treatment for breastfeeding patients. Good luck!

Morgansma · 04-20-2005, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amey

True. I am only going to comment on one part of this and it is to say that often the PDR and other texts used by physicians are using the information provided to them by the pharmaceutical companies. Generally speaking, these companies have not tested their drug on lactating women. Thomas Hale (a pharmacologist, if I remember correctly) has studied the affect of certain drugs on lactating women and their babies. Many drugs have a molecular weight too great to even enter breastmilk and are therefore fine for a breastfeeding mother. Others have short half-lives and can be taken when timed appropriately. Much of this information is not available in resources other than Hale's (referenced) book. Hale's Medications and Mother's Milk is available to the general public - your local bookstore or library may have it or be able to get it for you quickly. It's also available from LLL. Ruth Lawrence's book is also widely available.

If a mother seriously wants to continue breastfeeding, it is worth it for her to do some of her own research. There are times that a physician is NOT fully informed on the options available. Many times they see breastfeeding as something easily abandoned as there is formula available and it's "just as good."

I have met many mothers who get information about a drug/condition/what have you months after she's weaned for that reason and then find out that they could've continued to breastfeed, if only she had had access to more information. Joy is not making the decision for this mother - she can't. What she is doing is giving information. Here are the tools, you decide which ones might be helpful for the task at hand.

~amey

I am not good at getting my point across :-) Bear with me. I'll reply whereas you quoted me.

I wasn't looking at the drugs in relation to breast-feeding when I made the comments I did. I was just thinking of the mom and the adverse effects on her from taking that type of medication.

I have not read Dr. Hale's book. I have heard of breast-feeding moms referencing his book though with regards to taking prescriptions.

I hope that the op is able to continue nursing her child. I am a huge lactivist. I nursed my dd forever ;-) I don't ever want to see anyone have to stop nursing until both the mom and child are ready unless there are extenuating circumstances. Maybe this is one of them. I just really wish that the medical profession would offer all sides not just their slanted version. People have a right to know what they are getting into as far as prescribed drugs. And now I wish I had never spoke up.

Sabra · 04-20-2005, 09:58 PM

I will encourage you only to get a second opinion, and ensure that you do indeed have RA. Then, you do what you have to. My mother has RA & is on Methotrexate. That, paired with Humira, is what enables her to do frivolous things like get up out of bed and move around. If you have RA, it is something that is very serious & will indeed require treatment.

When you take any drug, it is a matter of weighing the risks and the advantages. If you have RA, you pretty much have two choices. You can not take the medication, and have a breastfed baby whose mother cannot pick him up or play with him, or you can take the medication and have a formula-fed baby whom you can actually interact with. (Or, you can hope you have a very mild form of the disease which never worsens, although generally the RA diagnosis is not made until it gets bad enough to interfere with life.)

Good luck in whatever you decide in the end, and please do get a second opinion. I have not heard of RA ever causing a rash, so it sounds that at the very least you have something else in addition to the RA, and hopefully you have a misdiagnosis on your hands.

MomOfHeathens · 04-21-2005, 04:36 PM

You have received so much wonderful information from so many wonderful mamas. Hopefully you are not feeling attacked or upset by the posts. I think what everyone is trying to say is please get a second or even a third opinion before doing anything. Also please research not only any and all drugs a doctor may suggest or recommend but also any alternative (not herbal I mean other medications that work just as well with less effects) medications there may be as well.

Sadly doctors do NOT know everything. We always think they do but sadly they know very little about most things and alot about nothing much.

The more you research the more you will know about what is being put into your body, the effects it has, whether or not it is right for you, whether or not the treatment you are receiving is the best, and everything else you need to get the care you deserve.

Don't give up yet. If you truly want to keep breastfeeding then do some reading from some of the resources listed. Talk to the doctor about what you find. Also, to be honest it sounds like your diagnosis is sketchy at best. What I mean is that this may be a misdiagnosis and there could be other underlying problems. Get a second opinion. There's nothing worse than being treated from something you don't have and still having to suffer the things you DO have. Make sure they get it right the first time.

If after all that you find out you still have to stop breastfeeding then do so knowing you did everything you could and are making the right and best decision for you and your little one and there is NO shame in that at all. It is heartbreaking yes but you won't be left wondering if you did your best and tried your hardest and trust me, that is truly a comfort on the nights when your heart is breaking during weaning.

Take care of yourself and good luck.

momtoboys · 04-21-2005, 06:27 PM

I want to thank everyone for their help and information. I guess I have a lot of research and thinking to do. I am just always so tired...I hope I can find the energy to get this all done. Thanks again.

Monie · 04-21-2005, 08:07 PM

I forgot to give you a link to this website: http://arthritis.about.com/
It has a lot of great info, and the people in the forum are very helpful and nice.

amey · 04-21-2005, 08:44 PM

Thoughts I had this morning were:

Fifth's disease (parvo virus) is checkable with a blood test, I think. My midwife in CT checked to see if I had antibodies to it when I was pregnant.

Have you been checked for Lyme's Disease? The symptoms are similar. Again, easily checkable.

And finally, ask about being tested for Multiple sclerolis. It too has similar symptoms.

Warmly,
Amey

Shelly · 04-21-2005, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mowglimonster

hit and run post
http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/

this site talks about an elimination diet...to see if eliminating certain foods will improve symptoms. people have had great success with this

also nightshade plants-tomato, eggplant, potato(i think there is one more...but it is escaping me)...should all be avoided.

whatever you decide-Hugs-mama-i hope you get some pain relief soon.

The one you're forgetting is peppers.