Colleen, Sandi, Gwen, Kimberly, et. al...thank you for engaging in discussion with me about this. I know that I'm more judgemental about it than I want to be, which is why I asked the questions I did. Like I say, from personal experience, I know people who simply wanted more than they could afford.
and
You're very welcome. I actually feel much better after recanting our situation to someone who is genuinely listening. It helps me to realize that the little voice in my head that sometimes says "you did this to yourself" should be silenced. I've gone over and over again what I could do differently to be somewhere different than I am today. I beat myself up enough over the mistakes I've made. Dh, man, he's really REALLY hard on himself. The breadwinner and all, not winning enough bread. Telling someone else our situation allows me to process it all over again so I can see that we really did do the best we could with what we had. Sometimes I get the judgmental responses I had been trying to silence in my head, but mostly people shake their heads in dismay and say "man, that stinks". I appreciate that.
I've been lurking on this thread since my first little outburst, but not really contributing b/c I didn't want to add to the heat of the thread. I wanted to thanks Colleeen, Sandi, Gwen,and others too for adding their perspective to this thread. I'll admit to being one who figured for a long time the vast majority of people were in over their heads from the start and just didn't realize it. I didn't blame them though, b/c I realized that many were relying on mortgage brokers and the like to advise them, after all, that is what they are there for, yk? Not everyone is going to be an expert in financing.
Gwen, it does stink, and ykw, we all make mistakes. When we bought our house last year, the news about ARMs and all that was coming out, and we knew better than to go that route. We had good credit, so getting a fixed rate wasn't a problem for us, and yet in hindsight, we still made a big mistake. DH was determined to hit that 20% down mark to avoid paying PMI. We had the money in company stock, but b/c the stock was with the company he worked for, we couldn't sell it till June 1, and the house closing was on May 23. No biggie we figured, we took out a cash advance on our credit card with every intention of selling the stock on June 1 and paying it off. Well, June 1 came, DH tried to sell the stock, but the SEC had him listed as an executive with the company (he wasn't) and made him jump through all these hoops to sell. By the time they cleared him, the stock had tanked and was worth less than what we paid for it. So guess what, a good portion of our down payment ended up on our credit card! Not the smartest decision we've ever made for sure, but there was no way to tell that things would turn out the way they did, yk? You just can't make decisions in hindsight, unfortunately. Luckily, we're okay, and that debt will be gone by the end of next year, but it hasn't exactly made our move an easy one, things have been a lot tighter than we thought they would be as a result.
Anyway, I just wanted to share, I don't blame most people for the housing boat they are in right now, I do blame the predatory lenders who didn't disclose all of the information in a way the average person could understand.
Whew. That is the first time I have ever read every post in a 32-page thread!!! And I want to go back and read some from the beginning now b/c there were some really wonderful statements about "why Obama" and about hope for the future.
And then, b/c so many thoughts have gone through my head along the way, I wanted to add my .02. I know I've stayed out of most political threads, and I don't want this to come across as a newbie naively jumping in on a weighty issue, but as this is such a momentous time, I just want to feel a part of how we celebrate/discuss it here
One of my pet peeves in America today is the sensationalistic style of the media and how we've come to accept and respond to it. The media is full of outlandish comparisons and overreaching statements meant to incite fear - fears when it is absolutely, completely unnecessary and totally ridiculous. Of course in the current media somebody is going to get compared to Hitler, because the names of any more realistic comparisons would not be recognizeable to much of the listening audience. Elections are emotional times, and the media is in a frenzy with stirring up those emotions to even greater heights. And campaign managers know that once they've got somebody's high level of emotions involved, they've determined their vote. The bottom line with this is that for the name of Hilter to even be mentioned in this circumstance is sheer insanity. He was twistedly motivated for world domination and genocide. I don't think that's anywhere close to what we're looking at here.
Now, are all fears based in unreality developed and propagated by the press? NO. These are uncertain times. Many Americans are suffering, and much of the world is suffering for reasons maybe related to American policies or not.
My opinion is that in the last 8 years we have not been led as competently and as unbiasedly as we needed to be. I do believe Americans are suffering in ways that are a directly caused by irresponsibility and cronysim. The cronysim - I saw a really good example of that happen right before my eyes. I worked for 2 years for someone who was a very close friend of Mr. Bush's... it's a long story, but let's just say I knew right away that what happened was probably not best for our country and was really based on how someone raised a whole chunk of money for his campaign.
We need change.
As a voter, I did my research, and as an independent, I felt that McCain would be a very decent president. There was much about him that I disliked, but felt that with our current political system, he was probably the best that could be turned out, and that with the current public opinion, even among Republicans regarding the last 8 years, that if he were elected I'm sure it would have been a marked improvement. Especially if I was resolving myself to simply hoping for best out of the "same ol', same ol'." Especially if I lost hope that somebody really different could make it through the political process and be elected president.
And then there was Obama. I first heard his name years ago - my mom is my source for pointing out unique news items from time to time, and she mentioned something about this rising star of a senator, how he was a little bit different than what was expected in a politician. This a good two years before he had been identified as a possible candidate, but some were talking. I checked him out and thought, "Wow - wouldn't THAT be nice!" but felt that though his background was one I'd want a president to have, that it would be a long shot with him actually winning in 2008. And so I kept my ears out for what might happen, followed, hoping with building excitement as events unfolded - and... wow.
Many others have put it so eloquently on this thread, and to join them in how they are feeling - I've never been so excited about any election before, never felt so invested, never felt so hopeful and inspired.... and proud. About what just happened before our very eyes in my generation. About all of it - forget the race issue, it's just about who he is - and he made it. He won. And he's different.
Different can be scary. But not-so-different is scary too. It's scary because - again - these times are uncertain. But we'll start with four years of different, and see where it takes us. Maybe I'm overconfident in the American people and in the American system of checks-and-balances, but I doubt that in four years things could get any more screwed up than they are now. I think we have much opportunity for improvement. And I think that Obama is very likely to seize on some of those key opportunities to make something good happen - and my hope and hunch is that he'll have the ability to change some trends in American policies in such a way that positive change will continue through many future administrations.
My overall view of the presidency is that it's value isn't held within one term or two terms, but it's real value occurs over generations of presidents. Our country is so complex that it takes the sum of all the issues to define us and our direction. Sure - strong personalities that hold the office of president do most certainly impart specific personality to their terms - and their legacies (and IMO this has happened with sad results the last 8 years) but some things need to decline and get broken to a certain point before they can adequately be fixed.
And lastly, yes I am Christian. I only bring this up to address the discussion about which way Christians do or do not vote - not at all to say anything about those who are not Christian in their beliefs. I don't bring this up to debate beliefs, or to debate the Bible, and if mention of this offends you then stop reading right here. Romans 13:1 says :"for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God" and I take that to mean that in terms of elections, ultimately, God is in control. And so I pray for the growth of good in our country - and how it effects Americans and the rest of the world.
Peace out. Looking forward to "past-noon" when I can enjoy some salty margaritas with some good friends.
DANG. Just saw how long this was. Sorry. Nobody has to read - I'm completely satisfied in just writing it, beacause after all, it's for posterity and all...
Location: I feel the pain of Human Potential bottled up in distraction
Posts: 25,231
Jeni, that is awesome that you shared.
It has been a breath of fresh air to me to see Christian people that were open to something else because for so many years of my life it has always been Republicans=God and Democrats=sin and ushering in the most evil in revelations.
And I am not talking about 1 church here but at least a dozen over the past 20+ years.(from non denominational, pentecostal, assembly of God, Baptist, evangelical free, and Messianic)
I actually had to write a mama here and thank her for giving me hope that Christians can think for themselves and choose what they truly feel is best.
My experience has been the opposite for so many years.
I know that sounds ridiculous, but that was the iron rod over my life all those years and when i stepped out in my own personal feelings, I was accused of being a witch, new ager and backsliden.
Which is why I do not go to church anymore. I was tired of the labeling of what I feel in my heart is right for me.
I feel more hopeful that there are Christians that can live in freedom of how they feel and still be strong in their faith.
And Christians that voted for McCain that is no slap in the face to you. I am certain you made the choice based on what you felt was right.
For me, for many years it was a whole other ball game.
I remember when Obama first came on the scene. It caused fear because it sounded so much like OSAMA (bin laden)
Location: So let them talk about us, let them call us funny things, people sometimes do. I dont care as long as you know I love you. Oh, and you know I do
honestly, and my political knowledge is so elementary I don't even feel like I can play in that sandbox, the thing that creeped me out the most about this whole process is the very abrupt turn on Palin from the RNC and other people around her. I never liked her to begin with, but seeing her get turned on so abruptly, so people can wash their hands of her when they were supporting her all along, and reading that 7 part Newsweek report on behind the scenes stuff - it does make you realize it is just one giant political machine and the candidates are not running the show, they are only presenting the public face. All that undercurrent, all of these false social niceties and rules of conduct, that creeps me out the most about all of it. That makes me feel the most hopeless about anything ahead. There are a bunch of a s s holes in charge, regardless of who gets the vote.
It is creepy, but don't lose hope. Ever. Maybe in certain things, but not overall...
You know that good always wins, what have you got to be worried about? That's what everything and anything is about. Do you trust Him? Its basics of evil. Evil is everywhere. Know evil to shun evil. I love the quote by Ron Paul:
"Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come"
And to me peace on Earth is possible with truth.
However, that is not to take away from how evil it is...
I would like to perhaps caution people to realize that the same people who put JFK into power and now putting Obama into power...
You can draw whatever conclusions from that - that you want, but is it just all-to-crazy of an idea to think that he's somewhat of a puppet on a grand stage? You've seen the PBS specials. You remember history. WHat happens after a powerful black man gets assassinated?
Yeah, riots. I'm not saying I entirely believe that this will happen. I just think that a) like I said, our hope should lie in God and community and ourselves and our children, in principles and our system of government made by our forefathers, not in one man. I just think that's a bad setup if he is your only hope... and b) we should be prepared for the worst. There's a strange thing that happens when you move from being afraid of the situation and powerless to knowledgable about the situation and prepared.
But who would stand to gain from riots? People who control and train the military and the militarized police to treat American people like the enemy? People who want Americans to get scared and hand over their guns SO THEY CAN BE CONTROLLED MORE EASILY? Take away American's guns and take away their country. Simple as that. Create a crisis where there are riots and suddenly guns are illegal as a result of martial law. Then who's got the power? Talk about Pinky and the Brain, sheesh!
Sure, its a conspiracy theory, but is it that far out there? No - that's what gets me the most. Let's write it off as a big unheard of conspiracy theory and deny the fact that our very system of government was created by people who viewed the happenings of the so-called theories, a certainty for our country, not just a probability. Our country was made to keep people from taking it over. ANd now we think that's the most ridiculous thing we ever heard of! WTF is up with that???
ANd with all the blatant mysteries surrounding JFK MLK, 9/11 etc. etc. etc., don't you think that is at least some reason to be critical of it all?
Wow, who got me rambling again. It think it was no one, just some points I wanted to "vomit" up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empathic~Heart
Yeah! See my avatar?
I have to admit, that is cute. I totally have to admit his voice is incredibly powerful. Just listening to him on the radio makes me totally wonder if he isn't maybe at least partial super human after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartyMama
where did I use dramatic flair? And WTF are you talking about practicing on the boards?
Oops. It was really late and I was thinking Rebecca wrote that post. She had said something else and I just put the two posts together in my head and responded to them both there. Sorry!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamabear
Juice Plus is *so* last year. Now, it's obviously the juice that Claire_Berry's got that's the good stuff.
Yeah, everybody knows that, like, duh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie
Any judgement I had is gone once I came to understand just how vicious predatory lending is. Loan sharking used to be illegal and actively prosecuted by the federal gov't. Not endorsed.
Good points!
But I wonder why the feds would want us to succumb to this this predatory lending? The people who write the financial rules in this country must just be stupid when it comes to other people's money, even though they are great and managing their own billiions. Because I don't beleive that they could... gasp... want to take advantage of us!
But no, nm. I don't believe in ...shudder... crazy off the wall conspiracy theories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joy
from a fellow sociologist--great post.
__________________ Claire Maureen
MV Hemp Candy
And once again... Passion Parties :heartbeat:
Last edited by Claire Berry : 11-08-2008 at 02:55 PM.
Claire, I don't buy into any conspiracy theories. And I've read, looked at the videos, etc etc. I don't trust our government so much that I automatically think that they are always right. I just think conspiracy theories are too much rooted in crazy.
So, now I understand where you're posting from. Trying to stop a conspiracy theory before it starts. Just know that some very intelligent people stand on the other side as you.
Hey, I wonder if we can keep this thread alive through the next eight years of his presidency?
__________________
Jonathan
Louisburg Cider Mill
October 2009
"Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law?
Jesus said until him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And, the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments have all the law and the prophets."
Hey, I wonder if we can keep this thread alive through the next eight years of his presidency?
AHA!! I'm not the only one!
__________________
Wannabe SAHM - DOB 06-30-69
Diagnosed with Emphysema in 2005
TTC on & off since 12-05
Application to Adopt Denied 06-07
Miscarriages - 10-10-08 & 12-23-08
Location: land of frigid winters and sweltering summers
Posts: 6,750
In many regards, this whole thread reminds me of the day of the election, listening to a group of kids outside my window before school. One group screamed OBAMA at the top of their lungs, and the other side screamed MCCAIN at the top of their lungs. They kept going back and forth until I am sure many of them decided to stop because their throats hurt.
Not dissing (or trying to) on anyone who has taken part in the discussion, as I feel both more educated and disgusted by humanity at this point, but I found the similarity to much not to mention.
Oh yeah, and because I so relate to 4th graders...
O-B-A-M-A!
__________________
---------------
NELLE
Me and my girls...
*if you notice that I am not using apostrophes, it is because that key has mysteriously stopped working
and 
Linear Mode
