Twiceblessed, why just snark when you could choose to be well spoken and sincere instead?
I think I've been pretty well-spoken up to this point and regardless its been called judgmental and offensive so why bother. I've also seen snark from the other side but no one has bothered to point that out. I find that interesting.
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~*~Tiffany~*~
"Receive the children with reverence.
Educate them in love.
Send them forth in freedom."
~Rudolf Steiner
Gwen, you can't refi?? We just refi'd. We were in an odd situation. We bought our house 7 yrs ago and refid the house about 5 years ago and ended up with a 7 yr arm and a 2nd mortgage (because the appraisal came in low-- found out later it was because they used the wrong sq ft!!)Our ARM wasn't readjusting until like 2011, but we decided to go ahead and put it all into a 15 yr fixed and pull out enough equity to fix the kitchen (we had a pipe burst abt a yer ago now and have been doing a bits and pieces remodel). Our area was not one where the prices went up and then back down though-- we have just been stable. Old homes, older area, city has a military base. We refi'd for a 15 yr through a credit union at 5.75. Dhs score wasnt even fantastic (weirdly mine was but his was lower-- they woudlnt count mine though because I don't work)
Anyway, I know when we did the ARM, it wasn't presented to us as something that could ever rise like these have risen. heck it was always-- oh you guys can refi it a little down the road. if the value to the home had dropped significantly, we would be screwed. Oh and we didnt do an arm until the LAST minute-- like they called us a day before we were signing the refi and said the appraisal is too low. (we had planned to refi from a 30 yr to a 15 at that point-- our point wasnt to lower payments but to build equity faster). Putting a good chunk on a second they told us would help us build abt the same amt of equity in the same amt of time with approx the same payments as a 15 yr. Our 7yr arm was at 4.75 and out 2nd was at 7 percent. Like I said, it worked out fine for us because our house hadn't jumped in value, so when we decided to refi a month or so ago we had plenty of equity, but I can see where it COULD have backfired if there was a big jump say right before we bought the house in housing prices, or right before we refid.
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Heather , mama to Liam, almost 8, and Simon, 4.5, wife to Mark, married over twelve years!
Gwen, you can't refi?? We just refi'd. We were in an odd situation. We bought our house 7 yrs ago and refid the house about 5 years ago and ended up with a 7 yr arm and a 2nd mortgage (because the appraisal came in low-- found out later it was because they used the wrong sq ft!!)Our ARM wasn't readjusting until like 2011, but we decided to go ahead and put it all into a 15 yr fixed and pull out enough equity to fix the kitchen (we had a pipe burst abt a yer ago now and have been doing a bits and pieces remodel). Our area was not one where the prices went up and then back down though-- we have just been stable. Old homes, older area, city has a military base. We refi'd for a 15 yr through a credit union at 5.75. Dhs score wasnt even fantastic (weirdly mine was but his was lower-- they woudlnt count mine though because I don't work)
Anyway, I know when we did the ARM, it wasn't presented to us as something that could ever rise like these have risen. heck it was always-- oh you guys can refi it a little down the road. if the value to the home had dropped significantly, we would be screwed. Oh and we didnt do an arm until the LAST minute-- like they called us a day before we were signing the refi and said the appraisal is too low. (we had planned to refi from a 30 yr to a 15 at that point-- our point wasnt to lower payments but to build equity faster). Putting a good chunk on a second they told us would help us build abt the same amt of equity in the same amt of time with approx the same payments as a 15 yr. Our 7yr arm was at 4.75 and out 2nd was at 7 percent. Like I said, it worked out fine for us because our house hadn't jumped in value, so when we decided to refi a month or so ago we had plenty of equity, but I can see where it COULD have backfired if there was a big jump say right before we bought the house in housing prices, or right before we refid.
We can't refi at all. We've tried and tried. Any fixed rate we could get would be nearly what it is now (lowest we've been offered is 9.5%) but when you include the fees and what-not, plus the money for appraisals and all that, we're in the same boat, just looks different on paper. And that's not even taking out any equity.
Sheesh between you getting all Dave Ramsey and Jody throwing around terms like "personal responsibility" (you can't just say that to a democrat!!!) no wonder we're running them all off! Sheeeeeeeesh!! Living within your means. Pfftt.
That is a HUGE assumption. Excuse me, but I'm as liberal as they come and I think I should be offended. I believe if one would look at my entire life, you'd see that, well, accepting of personal responsibility is pretty huge for me.
But, . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by teathymes
Twiceblessed, why just snark when you could choose to be well spoken and sincere instead?
T is far more compassionate and generous and loving than am I.
But, what am I talking about anyway, I'm not here. I'm elsewhere being irresponsible and drinking margaritas.
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Jonathan
Louisburg Cider Mill
October 2009
"Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law?
Jesus said until him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And, the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments have all the law and the prophets."
Location: ~the uncut diamond has little brilliance
Posts: 4,124
I understand your POV Rachel. ARM's are out of my comfort level too. There are lots of variables though.
I couldn't understand the real estate boom as it escalated around me.
People in our previous neighborhood had bought housing with no money down and I saw them move in and then within three months move out. They could not cut the payments. Half of my current neighborhood is empty b/c of foreclosures. Many of the homes bought as investments with ARM's. They can't turn them over nor even rent them. Many dropped 75% of their value.
Three years ago, I had neighbors buying in at the height of the market only to see their home value drop off a cliff in what seemed like the blink of an eye. What do you do when you purchase a home with a mortgage for $300,000 then within several months find your home value to have dropped $100,000 or more? You still hold that same note but you cannot get out from under. You can't sell and pay off your note.
Then there are people like Colleen who are self-employed and cannot get a conventional mortgage. They may have the income but not enough paperwork. Should they never purchase a home or do they chance the ARM with a plan to make it work.
Lots and lots of variables. Lots of gray areas.
People tend to listen to the "advice" given on the news, in the paper, on the radio. You're told to invest in a home b/c it's a good investment. Problem is, no one tells you that your investment may fall out the bottom. For years most homes only increased in value. And remember all of the buy, buy buy-now, now, now!! It was everywhere. You would tend to believe that what is put out there is the truth and not harmful. We were fed mis-truths. And lots of them.
Maybe mortgages never should have been sold with no money down or cash back even. Such high risk borrowers shouldn't have been allowed. It's all hindsight now and has shifted so far in the other direction that very few will be approved. We have to find a medium and I'm not sure where that is. In the meantime though, a lot of people are in trouble and they didn't get there on their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brayg
Colleen, why were you unable to get a fixed mortgage?
I don't like to sit in judgement of people and the housing crisis, but I'm afraid that I sort of do. Not all of them, but a large portion of them. Maybe because the people that I personally know that ended up foreclosed on did buy a home that was more than they could afford at the time and they were just banking on refinancing before the loan adjusted.
Now...we have purchased 3 homes (2 of them were purchased when the housing market was booming like crazy--1997 and 1999). Each time, we had the option of an ARM but chose to go with a fixed rate because it felt like too much of a gamble. We knew that *anything* could change between now and then...a job loss, an injury resulting in a job loss, etc.
Even though home values were rising significantly then and there really didn't seem to be anything to worry about, it still felt like a scary, risky thing. Did none of you (collective "you") feel this way when opting for an ARM?
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~Kimberly
*Mom to the dancing queen!
At the onset of the economic spiral, and even before that, during the housing boom, I was probably guilty of judging folks that "bought too much home".
Enter predatory lending.
All bets were off. Your gov't experts on the federal payroll failed you. period. For that, I am profoundly sorry.
The economic rules have always been the same; buy a home and build equity. Some of us were just fortunate enough to have better timing. ARM's in the 90's were a safe place to park your mortgage until a more suitable interest rate came along. Rates were regulated, a banker was forthright and tightfisted with a loan....if you got approved, you could afford it. The math was that simple.
Any judgement I had is gone once I came to understand just how vicious predatory lending is. Loan sharking used to be illegal and actively prosecuted by the federal gov't. Not endorsed.
You know, it's discussions like these that make me realize how far from traditional conservatism I have moved in my thinking. I take a lot of flak for it, online and IRL, but I am finally content in my opinions and ideals.
None of us operates in a vacuum in this world. All of our actions and choices and decisions have an impact on other members of our society in some manner. Rather than sit back and say - well, you've made your bed, now lie in it because *I* have made better choices - I would rather try to look for ways to help people out of a bad situation. Not only is it detrimental to our society and economy as a whole (as evidenced by this housing crisis turned world economic crisis) to take the attitude of moral superiority, but, IMO, the general population benefits far more when prosperity is spread across a greater percentage of the population.
Ignoring the "typical bleeding heart liberal" ideas and motivations that are often mocked, isn't it better from a purely economic standpoint to have a strong, financially healthy population? Aren't we seeing just how much even the upper brackets of income are affected by this fallout? In my mind, the only way our current situation is headed is towards 2 classes, the ultra rich and the poor. I don't think we're going to see many members of that ultra rich segment from our ranks here on the boards. Many of those who sit back in relative comfort and security right now have the luxury to bask in their morally superior decisions. The way I see it, nearly *everyone* in this country right now is just a job loss or a major medical disaster or other overwhelming, unforseen event away from seeing this from the other side.
We've witnessed the failure of trickle down economics, now we're witnessing the ripple effect that the wave of economic failure is causing when started from the bottom. When you have the pyramid shape of society that we have now, with the wealthiest portion being that little tip at the top and the lower and middle class being that broad segment beneath, I'd sure rather have a nice, strong, healthy base as the foundation.
Location: So let them talk about us, let them call us funny things, people sometimes do. I dont care as long as you know I love you. Oh, and you know I do
hmmmmm....perhaps claire knows you are a professional squirrel IRL robin? or just an autodidactic nut-checker? then i think claire means you shouldn't mix your vocational training or career with board melees.
Totally made me laugh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikva18
The funny thing is I usually stay miles away from threads like this. I have no idea what's possessed me to be so bold and come away happy to have paricipated.
I'm really glad that you have. And thank you to Isaac, too (Obama is also right of me. )
Quote:
Originally Posted by sowest
So, if you want to sit in judgment because some people made choices that *you* didn't make, have at it. Funny thing is, we all have to make choices and do the best we can with the information and resources we have available at the time - from the people on message boards who buy pricey diapers when prefolds will serve just as well and later find themselves in a position of facing unanticipate expenses - to those who wanted a better life and in better times could manage, only to have the rug pulled out from underneath their feet.
Yes, there were many people who made very poor decisions, that even they knew at the time were incredibly risky. There were many others who didn't. All too often, in posts here and elsewhere, I see where it appears that everyone caught up in this is lumped together. It seems like there are some saying that if you are dealing with this, then it's your own fault.
As for me - since I'm not privvy to each individual's circumstances that lead to decisions they make, I'll choose compassion rather than judgment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sowest
Rather than sit back and say - well, you've made your bed, now lie in it because *I* have made better choices - I would rather try to look for ways to help people out of a bad situation. Not only is it detrimental to our society and economy as a whole (as evidenced by this housing crisis turned world economic crisis) to take the attitude of moral superiority, but, IMO, the general population benefits far more when prosperity is spread across a greater percentage of the population.
In my mind, the only way our current situation is headed is towards 2 classes, the ultra rich and the poor. I don't think we're going to see many members of that ultra rich segment from our ranks here on the boards. Many of those who sit back in relative comfort and security right now have the luxury to bask in their morally superior decisions. The way I see it, nearly *everyone* in this country right now is just a job loss or a major medical disaster or other overwhelming, unforseen event away from seeing this from the other side.
We've witnessed the failure of trickle down economics, now we're witnessing the ripple effect that the wave of economic failure is causing when started from the bottom. When you have the pyramid shape of society that we have now, with the wealthiest portion being that little tip at the top and the lower and middle class being that broad segment beneath, I'd sure rather have a nice, strong, healthy base as the foundation.
Colleen, you are wise. I completely agree with what I clipped, especially with the bolded. I find it sad to see people sit in judgment because THEY were smart enough to make the right choice which is totally clear in hindsight.
Also I have to say that NOW no one would touch an arm with a ten foot pole. People that were financing 5 years ago had often only vaguely heard of an ARM. Many often really didn't understand the way that they worked, etc. Predatory lending banks on the idea that you won't really understand what you are signing. Does that mean that I think the person had zero responsibility? No. I do however believe that they are much less at fault most of the time than the lenders.
Gwen, try and find a credit union in your area. They are much less worried than banks right now, and we refi'd our house with them in under a week with zero paperwork hassle and zero stress.
Respect
Thought this thead needed a little more so I am adding mine.
And for those of you who might be interested in my reponse to the "scared of Obama" question. Here is the link to my response. World of Homecraft
Before you flame me please ponder why I did not post my answer on this thread.
You know, it's discussions like these that make me realize how far from traditional conservatism I have moved in my thinking. I take a lot of flak for it, online and IRL, but I am finally content in my opinions and ideals.
None of us operates in a vacuum in this world. All of our actions and choices and decisions have an impact on other members of our society in some manner. Rather than sit back and say - well, you've made your bed, now lie in it because *I* have made better choices - I would rather try to look for ways to help people out of a bad situation. Not only is it detrimental to our society and economy as a whole (as evidenced by this housing crisis turned world economic crisis) to take the attitude of moral superiority, but, IMO, the general population benefits far more when prosperity is spread across a greater percentage of the population.
Ignoring the "typical bleeding heart liberal" ideas and motivations that are often mocked, isn't it better from a purely economic standpoint to have a strong, financially healthy population? Aren't we seeing just how much even the upper brackets of income are affected by this fallout? In my mind, the only way our current situation is headed is towards 2 classes, the ultra rich and the poor. I don't think we're going to see many members of that ultra rich segment from our ranks here on the boards. Many of those who sit back in relative comfort and security right now have the luxury to bask in their morally superior decisions. The way I see it, nearly *everyone* in this country right now is just a job loss or a major medical disaster or other overwhelming, unforseen event away from seeing this from the other side.
We've witnessed the failure of trickle down economics, now we're witnessing the ripple effect that the wave of economic failure is causing when started from the bottom. When you have the pyramid shape of society that we have now, with the wealthiest portion being that little tip at the top and the lower and middle class being that broad segment beneath, I'd sure rather have a nice, strong, healthy base as the foundation.
Very nicely written and I agree.
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Wannabe SAHM - DOB 06-30-69
Diagnosed with Emphysema in 2005
TTC on & off since 12-05
Application to Adopt Denied 06-07
Miscarriages - 10-10-08 & 12-23-08
Renee, stating your opinion in a respectful way doesn't deserve flames. While there are a few mistruths in your assessment (denying medical care to babies IS wrong, and Obama doesn't disagree with that), your opinion is yours, and you stated it clearly and respectfully. Thank you for sharing.
And for those of you who might be interested in my reponse to the "scared of Obama" question. Here is the link to my response. World of Homecraft
Before you flame me please ponder why I did not post my answer on this thread.
I, for one, would not flame you for what you wrote in your blog.
I think you wrote a very nice opinion piece about your feelings.
It was well thought out and written in a way that none could take offense.
I personally believe Abortion, at this time, is a necessary evil. So, for now, I am Pro-Choice. When the unborn can be safely transplanted or put in cryo, I will be Anti-Abortion.
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