amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

Charity · 01-26-2005, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by peacelilymama
THEY ARE GOING TO FIND A WAY TO DO IT ANYWAY! At that stage, do you want them out (and this is the reality of the matter) drinking as much alcohol as they could possibly want in their cars, while driving around on the weekends - at risk of getting caught by the cops and/or killing themselves behind the wheel - because they have no place to safely drink. (what kind of a run-on sentence was that!?) Or do you want them consuming limited and specified amounts of alcohol at your discretion, inside the safety of your own house - where you know that they are not going to get into a wreck, get in trouble with the law, get in a knife fight and get killed, etc.

I think the point is, that protecting them from the consequences of bad choices means that you are telling them there are no bad choices. You're telling them that the laws weren't meant to be followed by supporting their choice to break it. You are telling them there are no consequences to their actions. They can do what they want, since they are going to do it anyways, and you will protect them from anything bad happening to them while they do it.

If a child (and by law a 17 yr old is still a child) thinks himself old enough to go against the rules (either parental rules or lawful rules) and break them, then he is old enough to accept any negative consequences that come with that, even if it means getting caught by cops, killing themselves behind the wheel, or getting into fights. The negative consequence was the reason behind the rule in the first place!

What you are saying is that you tell your child hitting your brother is wrong, but since I know you will get upset with him and do it anyways, you can do it right here in the livingroom. Then the rule goes out the window. What's the point of saying don't hit your brother, when you turn around and say I won't punish you when you do, I'll just accept it and make it easier for you to do it without anyone else punishing you for it?

LifesaBeach · 01-26-2005, 08:18 PM

I would tell him he is more than welcome to smoke when he turns 18 an is legal I'll have a beer with him when he turns 21 And I'd tell him that he's welcome to take OTC or prescribed drugs as needed but illegal ones he'll have to wait and try when he moves out on his own.

We are teaching them that true character is what you do/say when noone is watching. I can only hope that communication is always open and that they will internally be able to decipher right and wrong when they are teens and we aren't with them.

OT, but I love my dh. He is an awesome man. He has good character, morals...he's sensitive, thoughtful and giving. It is my goal for my sons to posess the traits that will bless their wives when they marry. Being respectful...starting with their own bodies and then extending that to respect for a woman's body. I won't have them cheapen the beauty of sex to that of a prom night encounter, loaded on drugs and alcohol, in a dirty hotel. Because I know that I would not want a man to treat me with so callously either. Boys who are allowed and encouraged in those directions end up being the men that women b!tch about.

All in all, we do our best but ultimately we can't be with them 24/7 It's what they learn from us when they are with us... They, like us, will eventually make their own choices and either reap the benefits or suffer the consequences.

~Denise~ · 01-26-2005, 08:24 PM

Holy carp Dawnadelle!!! I'd be ferocious if some parent let her child split a shot of watermelon liquor w/my child. At 14?! I am assuming you knew her parents reallllly well and knew that they'd not mind their 14 yo having a half a shot?!? (I would be buzzed on *a* shot, I can't imagine what that would do to my 90 pound 13 yo!!)

Sunflower_Momma · 01-26-2005, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CincoDeMama
curious how differently we all think on this topic as well~

say your teen came to you and told you he wanted to get high (mj), wwyd?

drink a beer?

drink a 6pk of beer?

do a shot of tequila?

do several shots?

thoughts on this?

a) we would talk about mj, the effects there of, why s/he wanted to do, and my feelings that, so long as s/he is a minor in our house, we will not support or condone their doing anything illegal. Additionally, I would talk about all that I have witness about the realistic long-term consequences of drug use (because, honestly, I have seen nothing good come from drug use). I would also let him/her know that I personally do not see mj as being worse physiologically than alcohol, but that it is illegal and to use it is to make risky decisions.

b) drink a beer - tell her/him that is something that, so long as s/he is a minor, we will not support alcohol use and that, if we find out that s/he has been drinking that there will be consequences, including loss of driving priveldges.

c) 6 pack - see b

d) tequilla - see b

e) several shots - see b

SketchyRecipe · 01-26-2005, 09:42 PM

FTR, I have known a few families who followed the it's-ok-in-my-house rule and the kids all turned out pretty badly. I don't know if it's not having something to rebel against or what but those kids all turned out with substance abuse problems. Just my experience.

Mama~KaBam · 01-26-2005, 11:33 PM

wanted to get high (mj), wwyd?
Tell her no and why and discuss further. That being said my dd is VERY against drugs (she has seen first hand what it can do from an ex friend of hers)

drink a beer?

DH has let her sip some of his beer, she hates it LOL.

drink a 6pk of beer?

Umm she hates it but I would tell her no and say if you must taste it you can have a sip or 2 in our home.

do a shot of tequila?

Depending on how old she is I would let her take a SIP she would quickly be turned off

do several shots?

NO

3ForTheRoad · 01-26-2005, 11:42 PM

I'm not sure about the drugs. The drinking is easy. Growing up, drinking wasn't something forbidden if it was done in the open and not to intoxication. If I wanted a wine cooler or something I could have one on a special occassion, champagne toasts, etc... I don't have an addictive personality, however, so maybe that's not the answer for everyone. I just know that because it wasn't something verbotten, I didn't feel the need to run and hide and drink a bottle of vodka.

Drugs... hmmm... I think that has more to do with parental supervision. I was not allowed out on school nights, had a curfew until I was about 20, and when I was grounded my Dad actually took the door off of the hinges. I honestly never smoked pot as a teenager. My friends whose parents were less strict about where they were and what time they were coming home were total potheads. I have to assume the two go hand in hand in my case.

Jessica

Mama~KaBam · 01-26-2005, 11:55 PM

Quote:

My daughter is 14 and one day came home with her friend. They were being silly - as 14 yr old girls will be. My daughter asks, with real excitement, "Oooo - can Lauren and I taste the watermelon liquor!? Can we!? Can we!? Pleeeeeeeease!!!!!!".

Did your dd's friends mother know??? Honestly if someone (a parent) told my dd she could split a shot I would be livid and you would be dealing with me as soon as I found out. That is just so wrong in so many ways. Letting your dd is one thing but to let another persons child do something like that is not right.

My dd would decline and tell me so at least I wouldn't have to worry about her.

~Denise~ · 01-27-2005, 01:24 AM

Nickie, I am curious too. I'd be floored if my 13 1/2 year old came home and told me she had 1/2 a shot of alcohol at her best friends house...

MommyTo4 · 01-27-2005, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LifesaBeach
We are teaching them that true character is what you do/say when noone is watching.

I couldn't agree more. This is an awesome value to teach.

calicohemp · 01-27-2005, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mamax4
I am not talking about alcoholism in adults. I am talking about young teens chugging vodka at sex parties. Dead frat kids from alcohol poisoning etc. Big big difference.

I see my teen nieces and nephews in Europe and they are far more sophisticated, far more mature about around alcohol. They laugh at the immaturity and giddyness they see in the N American teen and college tourists once they hit the pubs and bars.

I'm just telling you what they've told me.

I grew up in Germany and since you can drink beer when 16 and hard liquor when 18 it was no big deal. Growing up the family would get together for coffee and cake and afterwards in the early evening do some social drinking (no one ever got drunk just tipsy). We went clubbing when I was in high school and sure we could have gotten alcohol but why? wasn't something I needed or wanted. It was funny to see the American kids partying every weekend and getting drunk. I thought it was pretty immature.

I did (and still do) have a close relationship with my mom and while we never got into detail about sex we did talk about drugs and drinking. She raised me with good common sense and I feel she did a great job.

Alcohol or drug talk will not be taboo in our house but I'm not going to be going out and buying it for them. I will try to teach them as I had been taught and hope it sticks with them also.

~Bethany~ · 01-27-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

[i]Originally posted by LifesaBeach [
We are teaching them that true character is what you do/say when noone is watching. [/b]

That's the crux of a lot of issues, isn't it? What a great lesson.

And, seriously, those of you who said they would rather have their children do it in their house because it's the safest place...did you read my post? I didn't stop doing all the unsafe stuff, I just did it at my mom's house AS WELL. And am I grateful she let me do that stuff now? No, I'm in therapy because I felt like she didn't love me enough to give me boundaries. She let me make decisions I wasn't ready for.

And some more bad news...my brother, he was raised the same way...one set of parents very strict, one parent very leniant. He is currently fighting addiction of the worst kind at a $17 k/month rehab. How do you know your child won't stop at experimentation, and then you had a hand in their addiction process?

elsie · 01-28-2005, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CincoDeMama
curious how differently we all think on this topic as well~

say your teen came to you and told you he wanted to get high (mj), wwyd?

drink a beer?

drink a 6pk of beer?

do a shot of tequila?

do several shots?

thoughts on this?

OK, all those things are illegal to do as a teen, so I would say nope. end of story.

Abel already knows what drugs and alcohol can do to a person all too well. If he actually told me he was going to try any of those htings, I'd remind him of what he already knows. Depending on the gae, 'd throw in a new scary story about the generations of addicts on his family tree.

I'd remind him that illegal acts are forbidden in our home, and if he can't stop himself from doing them, he's welcome to provide himself with a different home, and I would miss him very much.

Now, we are Italian, and having a watered down glass of wine at xmas is something that just happens. And when we are in Italy visiting family, we will do as they do. So alcohol won't be completely taboo. Abel's seen me drink beer, and he knows a case of the stuff lasts for months in our house. He also knows it's for grown-ups, and why.

jeni · 02-15-2005, 08:15 AM

I think several things about this, as I have a lot of experience. I have a son who has been through substance abuse therapy at 13. Think it can't happen to you? Think again. My son was very closely watched - there are 4 adults in this home. Friends would come over and bring him some stuff to smoke. He would go to the barn to feed the pigs, and be gone for a half an hour. He also would steal a beer here and there from the fridge. Finally I noticed one night that the level on the bottle of wine on the counter had gone up, and I knew he added water. We are a close family, we go to church, he was in a private school, and I have no idea why he did this. He is still the kind of kid who thinks that life is about having fun. I think this is the biggest difference. You and I know that you balance the fun with the responsibility, he didn't, and he still struggles with it. It was a long, tough summer that year. I argued and argued with him, and we took it to his adolescent group (there are a lot of these!) and discussed
things. This said, part of this may be genetic on both sides. Also, my husband enjoys a beer now and then. I enjoy a glass of wine now and then. I can't remember the last time I was even buzzed, or that I saw my husband buzzed.
Talk to your child about the virtue of being in his right mind at all times for safety reasons. Talk about the trust you have that he can make the right choices. Talk about the consequences of breaking your trust in him. Talk to him about the difficulty in making adult decisions at a young age. Talk about why he might want to try all of these things - peer pressure, kicks, escape, etc.. and then adress those issues, helping him find a healthier outlet for those feelings.
My son completed therapy and backslid once. For a long time he ocould not leave the house with out a brother, not to take out the trash or feed the animals. He was not aloud to go out with friends, but some could come over to visit. Sitting on him made him realize that his family might be boring and goody goody, but we are okay. More importantly he realized that he was okay. And he saw that he could be strong. He found out he didn't need those friends, that others had fun without engaging inillegal activity or risky behavior.
BTW, he never asked those questions before all of this. I wish he had.
Peace!
I am sorry this is so long

djmdj · 02-15-2005, 09:02 AM

Jeni,

Wow, what a story! I'm so glad your son is doing better.