amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

Marion · 09-20-2004, 08:06 PM

(I thought I posted this an hour ago but obviously didn't)

Sorry

I called at noon, no updates. He hadn't peed.

DH called at 2 and no update.

I called at 6 and they've decided to keep him through the night for observation. He has not peed yet. His bladder is not hard. He no longer has a fever. He's been fine she said. Resting comfortably. If he does not produce urine by the morning, they'll be "aspirating". I guess that means they'll use a needle inserted into his bladder. Can they not cath cats?

~Denise~ · 09-20-2004, 08:35 PM

No, you don't want to cath a cat. Too small of a urethra. They will be doing a cysto. A thin, sterile needle into the ab and into the bladder. If the doc is good it's pretty painless and fast. (o: We use ultrasound guided ones so we can see exactly where we are sticking. And forcing urine from the bladder can cause bladder rupture, though I know some vets who still do it. Ugh. I am thinking he will pee overnight though, when all is quiet. (o:

Glad his fever is down! It is responding to the meds, a good thing! Is he eating?

Marion · 09-20-2004, 08:41 PM

they didn't say anything about him having eaten or not but before we left for the vet this morning, I carried him upstairs (he couldn't climb the stairs) and tried to put him in the litter box. While he was upstairs, he ate half a bowl of food and downed a ton of water. I felt awful because I didn't realize he couldn't make it upstairs and he was downstairs all night w/o food or water

I assumed since he ate and drank that much, some voiding is going to have to happen soon. I just hate to think of him in that cage all night. Sam's been wandering around the house "talking" and craving tons of attention. I'm assuming he doesn't realize Vinny will be back

So tomorrow I'll call at 830 am and see how things are going.

~Denise~ · 09-20-2004, 09:14 PM

Hehe....Be prepared, if Sam is anything like my cats he may hiss at Vinny when he comes home. Vinny will smell like that evil place...the vet! (o; And will smell like other animals....the horror!! My cats all gang up on whoever left and came home, hissing anf growling....it's funny but not. LOL.

Sure sounds like a viral or bacterial thing passing through him. He sounds like he's on his way to normal now though. (o:

Marion · 09-21-2004, 10:53 AM

**sigh**
well I called this morning at 811 and she said she would call me back in a few mins. She called me at 940 (meanwhile i'm stressing wondering what's wrong with him) and told me that Vinny had not urinated through the night.
I got a little freaked out by this. She said that the vet wanted to keep him there until he did pee. I said "Wait a min, he hasn't urinated in 24 hours. Doesn't that mean something serious is wrong?"
And here's where I get pissed..
she says.." Oh well he DID go yesterday but someone put too much paper in the box and it absorbed it all". So I'm thinking, you kept my cat overnight for nothing? She said he's fine, he's just hanging out. I said "So now we wait for him to go again?". She said "Yes, he is going but he just didn't produce enough for us to collect it". Which started to upset me again because not 3 seconds earlier she said they put too much paper in the box.
I'm wondering, am I right to just go pick him up this afternoon if he hasn't peed yet? I'm wondering if this was just a viral thing passing through his system. They aren't feeding him because they're worried his tummy is upset (since he vomitted on Friday).
I can't help but feel like I'm getting the run around here. I feel as though they should have told me yesterday that he had peed but THEY screwed up and put too much paper in. I would have gone to get him yesterday since they're saying there's nothing wrong and they're just waiting for a urine sample.
I can't help but wonder what this bill is going to rack up to be. Am I right to request that they NOT charge me for the overnight stay since it was their error that required he stay overnight?
Perhaps I'm over reacting but I think they're blowing me off. I called 4 times yesterday and each time they said he hadn't peed. Now i get another person who says "Oh he did pee but WE couldn't collect it because WE put too much paper in the box."
I'm sorry . I just feel like I'm getting screwed here. I know they're trying to find out of he has a bladder issue but lying to me and then giving me the run around is kind of making me upset.

I'm to call this afternoon and see if he peed again.

~Denise~ · 09-22-2004, 04:39 AM

Any updates Marion??

I do think the overnight should be free, it was their error. And if he had a full bladder, which he obviously did, they should have done a cysto to get the urine from him without keeping him overnight. There are pros and cons to a cysto versus a free catch, but all in all, the cysto is better for results and for getting an accurate result on bacterial tests.

If you already have him home, did they charge for the overnight? If so, I'd call back and ask for a refund. It was their error about the paper, one, and two, they could have at least offered you the choice of having him stay overnight or doing a cysto so he could go home that same day.

Marion · 09-22-2004, 06:40 AM

hey denise
Yes, they did charge for the overnight.
I actually got to speak with the Vet yesterday and I found out more information that made a bit more sense.
Vinny did urinate yesterday but he it was extremely concentrated and there was a high amount of blood AND crystals in it. I belive the vet might have told the assistants that it wasn't enough to get an accurate reading. She also wanted to keep him because his urine was so concentrated. She gave him SQ fluids and a few other things ( it's on my bill, don't have it in front of me..I will post them later tho'). When he finally peed yesterday she said it was still very concentrated along with blood and crystals. She gave him a depo shot (??? not sure) and said that I needed to switch him to canned food.
She said he was on an antibiotic but I didn't bring any meds home. She also didn't mention giving him any antibiotics at home. The overnight charge was only 7$ (far less than I anticipated) and I feel like Dr Hill was right in keeping him if she felt something was wrong.
I get the impression the assistants might have been misinformed which lead them to misinform me (about him not peeing, then about them not being able to collect the urine, etc).
Anyway he's home and he's still not "normal". Sam is hissing at him and mistreating him a bit. I'm having a hard time keeping them from fighting. Vinny still seems like he has trouble jumping up and walking but his personality seems to be brightening back up. He did sleep with me last night and he's sitting at my feet now

Thanks for taking the time to help me out, Denise. I'm hoping the trouble with jumping/walking will resolve itself.
The people at the vet's office all came out to hug and kiss Vinny goodbye. That made me feel much better

Also, the boys seem to LOVE the canned cat food! The vet mentioned there being a canned food that's geared toward urinary health but I wasn't able to find it last night. If you happen to know what that is, would you mind sharing it? Also, she didn't say how much I should be feeding these guys. Normally, I leave their dry food out all day (a big no-no I found out yesterday). The can of food I got them says I should be feeding them 3/4 - 1 oz of food per lb of body weight per day. Vinny is pushing 18 lbs and that seems like a lot of food for him.

waterlily · 09-22-2004, 01:52 PM

Marion, I hope your little guy is on the mend. I have a cat w/ urinary issues and we haven't had a problem since I switched to a good quality canned (Wellness) and milk and fish are a no-no. Sometimes I add extra water to the food to keep her hydrated and flushing her system out.

Marion · 09-22-2004, 01:57 PM

where do you get the Wellness brand food?
I was told to add water to the canned food as well.

Thanks!

~Denise~ · 09-22-2004, 03:17 PM

Marion, with crystals you need to be extra careful. It's not the same as a UTI. Crystals develop and can cause the blocking I was worried about earlier. He definetely needs an antibiotic *if* there was ANY sign of infection in his urine. If JUST crystals, he may not need one. But the fact that he had a fever tells me something was going on and an antibiotic is needed. A full course. Which would be at least 5-7 days minimum...usually 10-14 for urinary risks. I'd call back and ask for his meds or why he is not on one. If they say crystals don't warrant an antibiotic, they are indeed correct BUT his fever could not be caused by crystals, must have been in infection or virus. For his sake I'd demand an antibiotic. For his food, yes, canned food helps to dilute the urine. However you MUST have him on one for urinary issues. Wellness is good as it contains cranberries and blueberries, which promote health in the bladder. BUT until the crystals are gone, it's my opinion that he should be on something for them. Either a canned food JUST for crystals, like Hills SD or CD, or adding in Methionine to his canned. Methionine helps to break up the crystals by adjusting the urine levels. So you can go either way. It will also depend on how bad the crystals were.....sometimes the cat needs to be on SD, the stronger wet food made for crystals and the Methionine. Many foods contain Methionine but not in high enough amounts to help already developed crystals. I would call and ask about this too. I don't think a reg. wet food will be enough to break up already formed crystals, and before he does get blocked and require a $1000 vet bill, I'd ask the vet about what needs to be done to break them up. THEN he can go onto a good canned food, like Wellness, to prevent the problem again. However do note that some cats still need help and will require the use of Methionine for the rest of their lives, nothing major, it's an easy to give med and fairly low cost. I'd also consider offering more water. Consider a cat water fountain. No, seriously. LOL. Like this one...

http://www.petco.com/product_info.as...5&dept_id=%2D2

Seriously the more water he drinks the better. This will be a lifetime thing. It seems costly for many people at first, to switch to a fountain and canned foods, but it will be a lot cheaper in the long run. Also know that canned food will not clean his teeth like dry and you may need to have his teeth checked more often and even yearly dentals done to scrape off the tartar that is no longer being scraped off by dry crunchy food. They DO make urinary tract dry food, and he can likely munch on it later, but til the crystals are gone, wet food only is best. Make sure they do a follow-up urine test in a few weeks, after his antibiotic, to make sure the crystals are gone.

His trouble walking may be due to the painful crystals...they irritate the bladder, causing ab pain, and urethra pain. Keep an eye on him for urinating, if he stops, howls in the box, squats but can't go, these are emergencies. If he's still painful you can ask the vet about Valium for him...it relaxes him and the bladder, making it less painful as he heals. It's cheap too.

Hope this helps!!! (o:

~Denise~ · 09-22-2004, 03:24 PM

P.S Marion, many vet offices are so busy nowadays. It can be hard to get straight answers and all the info needed. Sucks, but is true in many places. Mine included. It happens. Make sure you always talk to the vet, not the receptionist or other staff. I work for a top of the line vet with AAHA staff and certification, and I still don't trust what some of the girls tell people. It's often off a bit, and that can make a difference. Just from my experience, always talk to the vet and never, ever feel like you are bothering them or being a pest. You pay for their services and your cats health is in their hands.

(o:

lilma98 · 09-26-2004, 01:27 PM

Marion, any updates on how your Vinny is doing??? I don't have time to post much during the week so thought I'd ask now while I did have time.

Hope all is well

Marion · 09-26-2004, 06:10 PM

Thanks for asking

He's doing much better. He and Sam are urinating a great deal more than the did before. I was told to add some water to their canned food to help hydrate them more. They really do "go" much more now LOL

I'm taking him back in in the morning because I want him checked again like Denise said and have them check a lump on his back. (I think he pulled a muscle in his back

Anyway, thanks so much for asking!

~Denise~ · 09-27-2004, 01:58 AM

I worked today at the clinic and thought of Vinny when an owner brought in a cat, looked like Vinny, also with urinary issues. LOL. Glad to hear he's doing better!!!! (o:

Other than their teeth, I am reading more and more that cats should be on a wet food at least somewhat. Like at least 1 tbspn. daily preferably more. I see the need for dry, since our domestic cats don't eat the safe bone that feral cats often do, and their teeth can get icky and painful....but I think wet food is important too for their urinary issues. All cats! Dry is often so processed and so high in carbs, not what cats naturally eat. Kwim? I think ideally a diet of a can of a good meat cat food is best, daily, along with a bit (1/8 cup or a bit more depending on cats size) of dry food to nibble on. There are dry ones just for urinary issues, or just get a good one like Wellness or Wysong, or Felidae....all contain cranberries, blueberries and meat....all good for the urinary tract!

Marion · 09-27-2004, 07:15 AM

I gotta say, I'm not loving the canned food. It stinks, they make a huge mess with it. Do you think it would be OK to only feed them the canned food once a day and then dry the rest of the time? I'll get the dry for urinary health and the canned for urinary health as well.

Thanks so much denise!