Gentle guidanceThis board is not a debate board regarding spanking vs. non spanking. While we strongly believe that children need and thrive with guidance, we also believe that hitting is not the answer. If you have come here to discuss spanking and your reasons, please desist.
My William is a seriously laid back kid, very tough to provoke. When he was 3, a kid in his class kept calling him a baby. William punched him. Was he provoked? Yep! Did the kid deserve it? yep! Did William get in trouble? yep!
Hitting is a last resort. William needed to find an adult and ask for help. He was sent home from school, he and I met with Miss Becky and Miss Leonora to discuss what happened. He also had some privileges revoked at home.
Next time the kid called him a baby, William yelled,"I AM NOT A BABY! STOP SAYING THAT!" he went and found his teacher. That kid didn't pick on my kid anymore.
William is VERY small for his age, he just is. At age 3, he still had some speech issues, which are very typical, but could easily be construed as "baby talk." This kid obviously decided my kid was a target. When he realized people were watching, he backed off.
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Hayes, mama to these five kids and one more due in October
Lydia 7, William 6, Samuel 3, Celeste 9, Isaac 21 mos
Also, with siblings, just knowing their parents don't think it is ok is helpful.
Yes, it is never ok to bully or hurt your sibling, but where I take exception as an adult is when parents knowingly turn a blind eye towards it OR they are so wrapped up in their own lives (TV or simply not paying attention) that they truly don't notice.
I know my sister was brutal to me. Sometimes my folks knew, but much of the time, they simply weren't paying attention or they were leaving it up to us to work it out. Guess what happened? My sister was as good as gold to others and I was the one that got in trouble for "being mean". Kids tend to work it out somewhere.
In all honesty, things go quite well here. We've spent a great deal of time on relationships and "your family gets your best or no one gets the rest." There are days where they fight, but I am there to keep reminding them of the rules and to help them communicate in a more appropriate fashion. I hope that will be the difference in how my kids perceive their upbringing vs. how I saw mine.
ETA: Chantingmama I do see your points for sure on sibling "bullying" vs. typical bullying.
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ETA: Chantingmama I do see your points for sure on sibling "bullying" vs. typical bullying.
And I completely agree with yours. Bullying within families is just as much of a mess as outside bullying, but it's a work in progress, and you can actively DO something about it, change attitudes, change mindsets and behaviours. You are not left standing there trying to deal with someone who you have no control over, who has no long term place in your life, and who you have a limited opportunity to make an impact. And bullying within families is frequently just a response to cabin fever, or processing of other issues with people they feel safest with.
Bullying OUTSIDE the family is ALSO frequently processing of other issues, but along with much deeper issues...if it is your kid doing the bullying, you have a lot more to work on than just "No hitting", and if it's another kid, you have to deal with the moment, because you are not going home with that kid, and working on long term changes. You deal with what you have got, which isn't much.
And I completely agree with yours. Bullying within families is just as much of a mess as outside bullying, but it's a work in progress, and you can actively DO something about it, change attitudes, change mindsets and behaviours. You are not left standing there trying to deal with someone who you have no control over, who has no long term place in your life, and who you have a limited opportunity to make an impact. And bullying within families is frequently just a response to cabin fever, or processing of other issues with people they feel safest with.
Bullying OUTSIDE the family is ALSO frequently processing of other issues, but along with much deeper issues...if it is your kid doing the bullying, you have a lot more to work on than just "No hitting", and if it's another kid, you have to deal with the moment, because you are not going home with that kid, and working on long term changes. You deal with what you have got, which isn't much.
I wasn't bullied until middle school. The only thing that worked for me was fighting them, they kept threatening to kick my ass so I met up and we got in a fight. I was suspended from school but they left me alone after that.
__________________ Shannan, mama to Wesley 11/98 and Seth 6/05
It's not that I don't understand and see things the way the rest of you are describing, but I'm with Laurie here.
I have a different definition of bullying.
I also will not miss a chance to "teach" an impulsive/aggressive kid that their method of communication is not ok rather than just symbolically shrugging my shoulders and giving up. I will help my child communicate to the other child. As and adult I will also communicate with offending child.
I have heard of long-term instances of kids being tormented and bullied (how do you spell that word? ) However, I think much of the generic stuff we're talking about is much ado about nothing.
*slinking away now...*
Oh, I so agree. Erik is a kid who has both "bullied" and has been bullied. When he is bullying, it is not because he's a mean kid, or he's trying to hurt someone. He doesn't always get how to behave appropriately in social situations, and he imitates what other kids do--except while other kids instinctually know to be subtle about it, Erik doesn't, so he gets caught.
Anyway, it is sooo helpful to him to have others use positive language while not allowing the behavior. I'm so appreciative of another parent who says, "Mary doesn't like it when you treat her that way. It hurt her feelings." or something like that. It is great when someone goes to the teacher, and the teacher (whom we love) can work it out with them, and talk to Erik about appropriate behavior.
For example, Erik was having some issues with standing in line--he was pushing and even spit once at another kid. his school is very proactive, so they asked us to come in, and Carl, ERik, and I met with the teacher. We told her some strategies that worked for us, and Erik talked about what would help him. She talked to him about why it was inappropriate behavior, and we talked about how his friends didn't like it. She outlined for him what would happen if he pushed or spit in line (he would have to go to the back of the line and hold her hand), and she and Erik decided on a signal if he seemed to be having difficulty.
With that great intervention, he started doing great in line. Then there was one day he had a very hard time. After talking to him about it, I found out that he had left the line, then come back, but the kids wouldn't let him come back into his spot. He had no concept of "cutting" in line, and he was so upset that the kids were, in his mind, being mean to him. He responded aggressively, which of course isn't appropriate, but understanding the situation made a big difference in how we dealt with it--we just needed to explain to him the unspoken rules of standing in line.
Anyway, all that is to say that in those situations, how people often WANT a bully to be handled wouldn't have helped Erik at all. Many schools have the kids stay in from recess, or there is some sort of complex system with colored cards. Instead, we figured out what the issue was, and we dealt with it. It involved another adult caring about Erik, and being willing to see him as a kid, not just as a bully.
Now, when Erik has been bullied or teased by other kids, I also don't make a big deal out of it, though it really hurts my mama heart. But I do tell him to tell his teacher. Not in a tattling way, but so that she can help that child know that his or her behavior is hurtful and not appropriate.
Having a child like Erik has made me really sympathetic for kids who are "bullying" though. I realize that many of them may just need to be "taught" what is appropriate behavior, and I'm more than willing to communicate that when necessary.
I also remember Linda's story with her DD in school--how she went into the school and volunteered for quite awhile, and modeled appropriate behavior and gently corrected inappropriate behavior. That was an inspiration to me.
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Heather
Mama to E, 6 2/3 and A, 4 1/2
Bullying within families is just as much of a mess as outside bullying, but it's a work in progress, and you can actively DO something about it, change attitudes, change mindsets and behaviours. You are not left standing there trying to deal with someone who you have no control over, who has no long term place in your life, and who you have a limited opportunity to make an impact. And bullying within families is frequently just a response to cabin fever, or processing of other issues with people they feel safest with. 
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