amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

Sandi · 11-26-2007, 01:42 PM

I totally hear you.

Maybe teaching her some good, strong words would help. "NO! That hurt! Don't X me!" and run to find an adult?

heather4285 · 11-26-2007, 02:25 PM

dh and i have always told our kids that if they are being bullied the first thing to do is to find an adult. if there isn't one available, my kids have the right to defend themselves. we teach that being the bully is unacceptable and that being nice is a much better way to be, but also that strong words "do NOT hit me" and fighting back are also acceptable.
i don't want my kids to hit anyone. i made it through childhood without ever hitting anyone other than my sister. but, i have also made it clear that no one has the right to hurt them.

rebecca, isn't it so much harder to be a mom with kids that are growing? these issues keep getting tougher and tougher.

DixieChick · 11-26-2007, 02:33 PM

REbecca, I have 5 kids. Sometimes they really hurt each other. It is SO HARD to suppress that mama bear instinct. I have found the best thing for me to do in the situation you describe is to COMPLETELY focus on the hurt child. I hug, snuggle, ice, medicate, cry with the injured child. I will do this until everything is ok, sometimes up to 20 minutes or so. EVERYONE else has to wait. It puts a LOT of positive attention on the hurt child. It also gives me time to calm down. I know the feeling of wanting to throttle a child who has hurt mine.

Family makes it so much tougher. Fortunately, that hasn't been a big problem for us so far, but I can see how trouble would easily arise.

As for name-calling. We don't call people names. My children's names are Celeste, Lydia, William, Samuel, and Isaac. They are occassionally called snot nose or silly boy or baby face. HOWEVER! if the child says,"Don't call me that" it is stopped immediately, even if it is an affectionate nickname from a parent.

There is no scapegoat, especially if your child is speech delayed. Kids are calling her names and she can't even adequately verbally defend herself and it is HER fault? I don't think so.

Name calling in unacceptable. Teasing is NOT ok.

I am a mean mean mama though. If you aren't nice to others, you get to be alone.

gypsimama · 11-26-2007, 02:46 PM

For bullying with words, we've taught our 6yo to say " thank you for sharing that with me" and then walk away and find an adult to tell/get help. She was in kindy last year and the teacher called to tell me that M had a 3rd grader tell her she was stupid. She used her line and walked away. The kid followed her and told her again. Again she used the line and kept on walking to the teacher. The 3rd grader was getting pissed beacuse she wasn't reacting and by the time M got to the teacher the 3rd grader was running after her yelling to the TEACHER "I'm being mean to her and she's not getting mad!" Apparently the little bugger was so angry that M wouldn't respond.

That sealed the deal that "thank you for sharing that with me" was the way to go for M.

For physical contact we've given her free reign to push, kick, hit, bite...whatever is needed to get away from someone hurting her. Kids or adults, if someone touches her body and she says no and they don't stop....let 'em have it. Again, at Kindy a boy touched her hair and she asked him to stop. He didn't so she shoved him, when he hit the floor, he stopped. The teacher made no fuss about it because she was trying to help 2 other kids and couldn't get to M. in time. She saw and heard the whole thing and was fine with how it played out.

Bullying is so tough. I think confidence and self esteem are 2 key ingredients to beating a bully at his/her own game. Wit and sarcasm have their place too.

tikva18 · 11-26-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunflower_Momma

In the past my thinking was to always turn the cheek and be nice. If it could not be addressed through those means then the "authorities" (teachers, parents, administrators) would resolve it. Now, I think that the first step is generous and kind, but that if that does not immediately work, shock and awe is the next step. I.E., hit and hit hard. Symbolically speaking. I find it shocking that I am even thinking of doing something that might hurt another child.

in summary: I now believe that kindness and generousity will not always work to resolve bullying and that aggression might have to be the way to treat it. And, that shocks me that I am thinking that way.

Unfortunately for us, the authorities did nothing to help and, on the contrary, contributed to the bullying issue by putting all of the onus on my ds. In the end, as you may know, ds left the school last spring and was homeschooled for the remainder of the year. He is finally in a school where he is safe. His present principal told me that the other school was 'very,very bad for Akiva and that the old school made it seem that everything that had haapened was Akiva's fault. He (tthe principal) now sees how he was misled by Aiva's old teachers.

What would i do about bullying? I'd come down hard. there is no excuse for treating someone without common decency.

woman*mama*wife · 11-26-2007, 03:40 PM

I encountered my first dose of bullying this fall. My 5yo DD came home from school and when I asked her how her day was she said "It was good because Donald stayed in the office all day." I asked more questions, found out Donals was a boy who "gets in trouble a lot." Since he spent the day in the office I figured it was being handled well and left all alone. A few days later my DD came home with red staining her whole chin, neck and shirt. Apparently Donald asked her if she wanted a drink then held it to her mouth so she could sip - before she could sip her squeezed the juice box all over her.

I was so saddened for my baby. I went into instant defense mode and called the school. I met with the teachers and found out that Donald is in the class for the second year in a row. He is suffering from some major problems at home, and is being very closely monitored by several sources. I sat down with my DD for a while...chatted about what to do in these cases...about how its okay to not always feel brave (she has abig thing with wanting to do things alone to be "brave") and to go immediately to her teachers for help. There hasn't been any issues since...I think after my meeting with the teachers there was some seat changing and my DD says Donald hasn't been "in trouble for a long time." Perhaps he was testing his environment and my DD was the target... I don't know.

This is my biggest struggle with motherhood...accepting that I can't always be by their side to walk them through challenges. Accepting that letting them go it alone sometimes adds to their independence and strength. All the issues surrounding this... *sigh*

I'm hoping that I handled the situation above well... but I honestly don't know. I'm new to this.

Mamax4 · 11-26-2007, 04:11 PM

I think chiclren should be protected, but I also think that sometimes people see impulsive behavior on the part of small children as 'bullying' when it really isn't. I always step in if children are not being kind...but I also want to send the more aggrsive/impulsive child a gentle message. Impulsive little ones get a lot of negative feedback, so I think it's important to help these kids get a different sense of themselves (even in a short exchange). The motivation of the bully matters too, in how I handle it. Bullying and impulsivity are not the same.

But no, I don't allow power plays and I've always been proactive and participatory in dealing with situations that are not postive. Fi, I have never allowed my children to hit each other...I never let that go even with tiny ones and my children do not hit. Dh and I have also been very emphatic about there being no putdowns in a family etc.

woman*mama*wife · 11-26-2007, 04:18 PM

I wanted to add that in any issue that comes up with my children I put myself in their place and consider as much as I possibly can - how it feels from their viewpoint.

As an adult, I have no tolerance for being mistreated by anyone. And I have even less tolerance for the mistreating of my children. There are so many factors to consider with children, though. And like Mamax4 said - the motivation of the act is very important.

No matter what, at the very least, I plan to discuss any incidents brought to my attention with my child thoroughly and then judge from that conversation on who I talk to about it next...whether it be a parents, teacher, etc.

There are so many factors to this... but I think communication is really key in how it's handled....even before an event of bullying has ever even happened...communication is key.

~*~Seeking*Simplicity~*~ · 11-26-2007, 04:28 PM

I dont think engaging in retaliatory violent behaviour is the answer. I think it teaches kids to "get even". I try to teach my children that they are *above* that & I also point out that the negative behaviour of children is often due to poor parenting. I encourage my children to vocalize when others treat them badly. If the situation is not remedied they are expected to *leave* the situation. They are not to allow the other person to continue to treat them badly. If the child in question follows them, come to ME, mama will handle it!

ThirtySomething · 11-26-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamax4

I think chiclren should be protected, but I also think that sometimes people see impulsive behavior on the part of small children as 'bullying' when it really isn't. I always step in if children are not being kind...but I also want to send the more aggrsive/impulsive child a gentle message. Impulsive little ones get a lot of negative feedback, so I think it's important to help these kids get a different sense of themselves (even in a short exchange). The motivation of the bully matters too, in how I handle it. Bullying and impulsivity are not the same.

But no, I don't allow power plays and I've always been proactive and participatory in dealing with situations that are not postive. Fi, I have never allowed my children to hit each other...I never let that go even with tiny ones and my children do not hit. Dh and I have also been very emphatic about there being no putdowns in a family etc.

It's not that I don't understand and see things the way the rest of you are describing, but I'm with Laurie here.

I have a different definition of bullying.

I also will not miss a chance to "teach" an impulsive/aggressive kid that their method of communication is not ok rather than just symbolically shrugging my shoulders and giving up. I will help my child communicate to the other child. As and adult I will also communicate with offending child.

I have heard of long-term instances of kids being tormented and bullied (how do you spell that word?

) However, I think much of the generic stuff we're talking about is much ado about nothing.

*slinking away now...*

Maura · 11-26-2007, 04:44 PM

Tough question. I have told Ava that she should ignore rude comments or putdowns and walk away. As far as physical bullying, I told her to tell her teacher. in the First grade she had a fellow student tell her he was going to stab her with a knife. He also made sexually suggestive comments. I told her to always tell her teacher in those instances. (He eventually was expelled from that school due to other factors.) She is pretty quiet and shy, for the most part, so this issue concerns me, but there are times when she really speaks up for herself. One tme she was in the middle of two girls who were fighting over her (typical second graders), and she came to me and said that she wanted to talk with her guidance counselor. I was pretty proud of that.

ChantingMama · 11-26-2007, 05:05 PM

For verbal abuse, my kids have been taught to ignore, walk away, get an adult. If someone is physically attacking them, they have the right to stand their ground, and show their strength, however it takes to do it, whatever it takes to show that other person that they have to stop and they mean business. Sadly, some people only understand physical language, and while I wish it wasn't that way, my kids deserve to be safe from violence.

Kalki is the target of bullies all the time on the field in his rugby games, cause he is d.amn tough, and usually twice the size of anybody else on the field; so they all work to take him down. He has carte blanche to do what it takes to show them he is not intimidated by them. He is such a softie, though, that they frequently get away with the most horrible stuff.

I have footage of Kalki being clotheslined by this awful little kid, the coach's son of the opposing team, with the worst hit the officials and the ref had ever seen. And then five minutes later, another opposing player hit him again across the throat, and told him to suck it up. Behavior like that I have absolutely no problem with letting them take the consequences. (BTW, the other coach seemed to encourage that behavior, and all the officials and the ref were so shocked they had no clue how to deal with it....the adults in your life are not always going to be able to deal with the problems, so you need to be able to deal with things yourself, too)

Sunflower_Momma · 11-26-2007, 05:08 PM

Thanks for all your responses. It is very interesting for me to see what others think, especially those who have older children.

Sandi · 11-26-2007, 05:26 PM

I agree with some points about differentiating uncontrolled outlashing or outbursts versus bullying. FWIW, I was speaking of bullies - people who chronically pick on children smaller, "weaker," "lesser," than themselves. Like the boy who told my DD he was going to "murder her family" in school.

And, just because a child is new to our circle and lashes out at one of our children doesn't mean they're *not* a bully - they could be, still. It may just be our first encounter with them.

But, yeah, parenting has a lot to do with - well - a lot. But, yeah - my kids hit eachother no matter how many times I say "unacceptable" and remove them from the situation - I keep doing it, they keep doing it, it seems they'll never fully grasp it, though (speaking from a day when it seems that NO ONE can keep their hands or bodily fluids to themselves).

ChantingMama · 11-26-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChasingChe

But, yeah, parenting has a lot to do with - well - a lot. But, yeah - my kids hit eachother no matter how many times I say "unacceptable" and remove them from the situation - I keep doing it, they keep doing it, it seems they'll never fully grasp it, though (speaking from a day when it seems that NO ONE can keep their hands or bodily fluids to themselves).

You know what, I consider hitting and bullying among siblings to not even be in the same category as outside bullying. The actions might be the same, but the motivation is so COMPLETELY different. My kids can be animals, it seems, sometimes, and I have memories of my sisters and I being the same way; and other people always have stories, too. But NONE of us would ever take that out to other people; THAT is what I call bullying. Within the family, well, that is just part of growing up, learning behavior and methods for when you get out into the world. Sucks to be us, though.