amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

amyorama · 03-07-2005, 11:08 AM

I love my kids. I love co sleeping with them, BF them...but somehwere I have let my kids have too much control over me.
I say things like, "Let me go pee" or "Let me eat". (It is not unusual for eat 6 hours after waking.Why I am still a fat arse, I have no clue.)
I say "No TV", then come downstairs to find them watching TV. (I do turn it off.)
I could go on, but it's too depressing. I know, I sound pathetic.
For instance, I'll be sitting down to eat a sandwich. I've asked my kids if they wanted one, but they said no. I sit down to eat, they ask "Can I have a sandwich?" I end up giving it to my kids.I get up to fix me another sandwich. The baby wakes up. I stuff some saltines in my mouth instead. I get the baby and I find the sandwich halves nearby, uneaten.
HTH did I let things get out of control? I know some of this stuff is normal, kids just testing their boundaries, etc but I am starting to feel resentful.
Anyway for me to start over with a whole new set of rules?
I used to be so hard on my in-laws, 'coz they are so rigid with their nap schedules, so rigid on their kids' bedtimes. I don't hear them screaming at their kids to go to sleep.
I've been up since 4 am, dunno if I am making any sense.
Luckily, my kids act very well in public, for the time being at least. They don't run amuck at the library, lol.
Thanks

Liba · 03-07-2005, 11:23 AM

Well the TV can be unplugged so it won't be so tempting. It can also be given away if need be.

Bedtime, I would start by making fun bedtime routines. Ease them into a routine and then start doing it at the same time every day. Consistancy without rigidity. Here at 7pm we put on nightgowns. Then I sit with the girls and pick up the floor so I have a place to put down the baby and sit to read a story. after that we kiss good night and they say their prayers and go to bed. Lights are out and all is quiet generalyl at 7:45. A year ago bedtime was whenever and there wasn't as much of a routine. I would have kids getting out of beds 3-4 times in the evening before they went to sleep for the night. Now at 8pm I have three sleeping girls!

They have water cups in bed so they can stop claiming thirst. I also don't let them see that I am stressed about getting them to sleep. We enjoy our prebed time time and sometimes I read three books instead of two when they get in nightgowns and clean up quickly.

So I guess my bedtime advice is make it pleasant and consistant. A set bed time doesn't have to be rigid.

You are a good mama. You will be fine! Finding the right groove can be hard, but you will do it!

RFamHere · 03-07-2005, 11:35 AM

I do the sandwich thing too. One day my dh caught me doing it and put a stop to it. "That's your sandwich, you eat it. They can wait until you are done to make them one." So now they have to wait if they didn't take the opportunity when asked. It's hard, very hard, but I was giving up too much.

You're not alone!

tinyterror'sma · 03-07-2005, 11:40 AM

(((hugs)))

Mama - you need to put yourself first once in a while. I know your ROFL now, but really. You can't be your best mama unless you get to eat & sleep & do something for yourself.

You'll really be teaching them valuable life skills (decison making, patience, etc) if after you've offered to make them food & they change their mind, they wait until after you've eaten.

I saw an interview with Terri somebody (from Desparate Housewives) where she said it's the Burnt Toast syndrom - the mom always puts herself last eating the burnt toast, etc & never values herself.

If you don't value yourself, who will?

Teaching your kids life skills in a postive way is not non-AP.

Cozymom · 03-07-2005, 11:41 AM

You just described my life. My kids have a bedtime routine (except the baby) and are in bed and quiet by 8 pm. But I still have to beg to go to the bathroom, and I know exactly what you are saying by smashing saltines in your mouth (I swear I should be a size 2 and I'm nowhere close-lol) And without fail, if I do manage to make something for myself it is eaten by the kids. I don't know if this is AP, or just being a mom. I don't know if it is too late to set all new rules, but if you choose to do so my biggest advice is to be consistent. Every time I decide I am going to be more rigid, it lasts about 10 min. and I'm back. I cannot maintain the consistency, therefore, my kids do not respond to my new rules. I can completely understand you feeling resentful (I am there myself sometimes), but what gets me through it is that they will be all grown up before I know it, and hopefully my parenting choices will have helped them become outstanding adults. I'm sorry if I'm not much help, but I had to respond because I so know what you are talking about.

Kbsmama · 03-07-2005, 12:01 PM

Did I write that post??? Mama, I am right there with you. Things have gotten so out of hand at my house now, though, that everyone is yelling. My kids start screaming at the slightest hint of direction (ie "It's time for dinner."). I get ignored and/or argued with all the time. It's like a constant battle. It is just plain out of control. I am working to sit down and be with them (I think I have been escaping with busy-ness and not REALLY spending time with them) and not yell and be patient, knowing that things are not going to change overnight. I don't have answers. I do know, I have figured out that when there are three of them instead of one, I do have to have some time to myself (not neccessarily AWAY, just some time to breathe). I find if I stop taking my vitamins (seriously!), I have a harder time. Take care of yourself, Mama. I know it's not easy, because I'm struggling with it myself.

Roses · 03-07-2005, 12:12 PM

The sandwich thing reallllly rings a bell here! I have finally had to just start paying attention to my body's physical needs! Because having their mama being exhausted because she didn't get to eat isn't good for the kidlets. I tell them that I just sat down to eat, and I'll be better able to help them when I've finished eating something! I was so busy before Christmas (running around doing errands, cleaning, wrapping, cooking, etc.) that I passed out Christmas morning! I'd barely eaten anything for a few days because I was so busy! Now that's nuts. You've got to take care of yourself too. Eat that sandwich.

Amethyst · 03-07-2005, 12:41 PM

I don't think AP means "permissive parenting". Boundaries are necessary and important. I am big on natural consequenses around here. If I ask if you want a sandwich and you so "no", I'll say "are you sure? you will be very hungry if you don't eat.". If the answer is still "no", and I sit down to eat, that's it. If you decide you want mine, too bad. Being hungry stinks. It's a total boundary issue, IMO. Snack time comes every couple of hours, so the kids most definately won't starve. I look at most things like that. If I say "stop jumping on the bed, you are going to get hurt." a few times and no one listens, I might back away. Someone is bound to get a bumped head or busted lip, but "hey - I said "stop". Now they know why. I always warn them of the consequences that might happen to make it fair, but after that, it's up to them.

bear · 03-07-2005, 12:49 PM

Oh my, your house sounds just like mine. I am always fighting with the boys over stuff like that too. And me get food all to myself, hmmm can't remember the last time that happened.

PoetMom · 03-07-2005, 12:50 PM

I feel the point of attachment parenting is to meet our kids needs in a way that helps them develop into people who can love and live fully.

People who never learn patience, never learn gratitude, never learn to say please -- and mean it -- or thank you -- and mean it -- don't love and live fully.

People who don't get enough sleep can't love and live fully.

People who don't know that setting limits is normal (this much TV, not that much TV) can't love and live fully.

When you teach kids that opportunities are available when the OPPORTUNITY is available -- not when the CHILD is available -- you teach them an important life skill. I don't force my kids to eat when we sit down at the table -- but when the last kid leaves the table I clear the dishes and the meal is over. Milo is really struggling with this lesson lately. If he means to eat -- the eating happens at the meal, or he has to wait. Milo would prefer that the meal stay on the table all day long so that he can nibble at his own pace. (I have nibbling foods, though -- but a full plate of lunch on the table is just an invitation to our smallest dog to go to the Dark Side if you know what I mean.)

Bedtime is when I say it is and not later. This is tough when you first implement it but it gets easier -- waking time starts to occur around the same time and naps at the same time. Suddenly people in the house all seem more chipper and better behaved

I had a friend who only ate what her kids left on her plate. She considered herself a diehard feminist and yet in her family she was teaching her sons that boys sit at the table and get a real meal and women don't sit at the table and eat the left overs.

Being AP isn't being permissive and isn't about putting the mother last. EVER. The magic in AP isn't in what we let our kids "get away with" but in our willingness to see what they need and be willing to go the extra mile to get it.

YOU see that your kids need structure and discipline (discipline: training that corrects, molds, or perfects the mental faculties or moral character OR orderly or prescribed conduct or pattern of behavior) -- way to go mom! So many parents -- AP and non-AP -- miss that message. Now sit down with your husband and sketch out a plan for how to make that structure. Remember it doesn't matter how *I* do it -- it has to work for your family. Lord knows I struggled with this with my firstborn. It's been much easier since we went to homeschooling and we got to practice all day long

It's easier with the younger two also since I did learn a thing or two with number one

It will get easier for you, too, as you put your plans into action.

MGray · 03-07-2005, 12:52 PM

I think you can have a routine and still be AP

I have 4 kids, I can't have them eating all day whenever - it would be chaos. So, I provide 3 sensible meals each day and 2 snacks and if they can't be bothered to eat at a meal, they can be hungry till the next meal

Ap is about meeting their needs. As a child grows - it can get harder to figure out the differences between needs and wants. Kids often function best on a nice routine that lets them predict what comes next.

It is good for children to learn you have boundaries and learn to respect them. AP isn't permissive or no parenting. There is nothing wrong with you saying, "no, this is mommies and you need to wait" There is no time like now to give clear boundaries to your kids.

Better yet - have them make their own sandwiches. Oh, even better - have them make yours

Mine do, my 5 yr old can make me a great sandwich. My kids are responsible for getting breakfast and lunch (we eat together, they just fix it.) We are around to help and supervise - but they can and do make a meal. (Have you seen my kids' chore list??)

You are their mother - not their servant and slave.

chappy · 03-07-2005, 01:03 PM

Here is a dad's .02

We are an AP family and I don't think being AP has anything to do with children being on a decent schedule and behaving themselves. My thought is that if you don't make them listen to you and get on sort of a schedule, then it is going to hurt them more later on in life when they have no respect for adults and are doing poorly in school because they are tired because they didn't go to bed until 11:00 the night before. But like Liba said, there are ways to do it that still promote healthy parenting.

With our boys, bedtime is 8:30. Depending on what is going on that night, it may be a little earlier or a little later (15 minutes either way) but that is the time we try to stick with. We got a water sounds machine for our oldest son's room (he is 6) and it puts him right to sleep. But for us, everything is about "routine" when it comes to bedtime - if we aren't in the tub by 7:30, we're not going to have time to read books and still get to bed on time. So we use that when the boys don't want to take a bath- "if you don't get in the tub now, we won't have time for two books tonight" - and if they wait until 8:00 to decide to get in the tub and by 8:30 we have only read one book, too bad- you got your warning and this is the consequence. But they learn quickly, and usually by 8:15 our oldest is begging us to hurry to come to his room and read because he has to bedtime in 15 minutes...music to our ears

I also agree with some of the other mothers about eating- you need to put yourself first, and they can wait a few minutes. Especially if you already offered something to them. They might throw a fit about it or whine, but just tell them nicely that mommy is eating right now and will fix them something to eat in a little while, and if they continue to fuss, tell them to go to their room and come out when the fuss bug stays in their room and doesn't come out with them.

Whatever you do probably won't work immediately, but if you are consistent with it, just about anything will work. YOU make the rules, not them, and YOU are the boss- not them. Now, go have a sandwich

Best of luck to you!

Chris

Erica · 03-07-2005, 01:09 PM

I can relate!

I especially can relate in regards to Kaya because she often does exactly the opposite of what I told her or she doesn't listen all together.

I find that I have to actually demand eye to eye contact. Repeat myself sternly and follow through regardless of tantrums and tears.

anyways regarding routine....we have one! Kids thrive on rhythm and predictable mealtimes, bedtimes, playtimes, bathtimes etc. If my kids aren't tired when bedtime comes (7:30pm) then they can look at books in their bed.

I definitely pick my battles but I'm always stern if I ask something of them and they don't follow through.

ETA: I just sold two of our TVs because Kaya was putting movies in constantly. I won't miss them one bit!

and yet another thought...

rhythm & routine makes it so much easier to decipher between hunger and fatigue and downright "testing limits". Sometimes Cody is just too tired to get along with us, other days it's Kaya, other days it's me!

MamaJosie · 03-07-2005, 01:32 PM

but I agree with other posters that giving totally of yourself and having no privacy or being able to eat your sandwhich are not AP principles. To me AP means being very attached to little ones age 2 and under (as in co-sleep, bf on demand, slinging or keeping them very close. etc) and for older kids it means meeting their needs in a loving and respectful way. It doesnt mean meeting all their needs and WANTS when they want, how they want, every second of every day. And it does not mean letting them run roughshod over you with no limits or expectations of them.

I thought up a good analogy about this with Christianity. I have a friend who is a true doormat because she feels she has to be so sweet to everyone regardless of how they treat her (this is mostly a problem with some really mean nasty in-laws who treat her like crap) because she is Christian. I heard about the book Boundaries and sent it to her because it is a Christian based book on SETTING LIMITS in your human relationships, and it is backed up Biblically. Basically it says you don't have to be a doormat and do everything anyone asks of you without being able to say no, or set healthy limits. I think maybe someone needs to write a similar book on AP, which illustrates that you can still be an AP mom and have time to yourself, rules, bedtime routinues and not have to be a short order cook for your kids etc!

I was in such a rut a couple years ago I was just on auto pilot and realized, I have totally lost myself in this motherhood gig and what does that show my kids? That it is ok for mothers/women to give up their whole sense of self, let themselves get unhealthy, run-down, never buy new clothes or get a haircut or take time to excercise and just jump when everybody says jump? Is that what I wanted my daughters and maybe even worse my SON to think that is what women and mothers are supposed to do? HECK NO!

We made a lot of positive changes and it has helped immensely. I was psycologically having a terrible time with bfing my 2.5 year old and decided to wean him (it WAS NOT a healthy relationship - he wanted to use me as a paci ALL NIGHT LONG and my mental health was truly at risk.) I tried gradual weaning but it was not successful and soon after the girls and I flew to my sister's graduation and were gone for a long weekend so we decided to wean him at that point while he was home with Daddy and had some nice 1on1 time. He didnt have much stress over it at all and I think we were really both ready to move on. Now some may say that anything but child led weaning is not AP, but I disagree. I feel nursing is a 2 way relationship and what is AP about me getting no sleep and resenting my child.

Other changes are we have more regular mealtimes, bedtimes, I don't share my food very often and if they want my food, I tell them that I will make them their own when I am done. (this is maybe a snack or whatever I make myself - we always eat together at regular meals). We still have our 4 year old creeping in bed with us at night and we do a little musical beds in the night sometimes but that is ok with me. He is still young and there will come a day when he wont ever want to sleep with or snuggle me at all and so I try to keep that in the back of my mind. I also have more time away from the kids that I used to. I have take a weekly 3 hour quilting class for the last year and a half and I also take a daily walk or run when I used to just try to do workout tapes or the exercise bike which I hate and hurt my back. DH NEVER excercises at home with kids around interrupting his routinue and neither am I! We got rid of the bike and dh quit coaching all but one sport so he could be home in the afternoons so we could BOTH get exercise!

I have a friend who started an AP playgroup and had to quit after about a year because some of these parents allowed their kids to destroy things in her home and not follow any of the very basic house rules she had in place. And I think we may have all met at least one AP family where the parents thought AP meant "never tell little Johnny what to do" or they do TRY to have expectations but feel that following through if their requests of Johnny go un recognized wouldnt be AP, so he knows he can ignore them and do whatever he wants. It is really sad too because kids NEED limits and it can be very confusing and overwhelming for them when they figure out that they are the ones in charge.

It is actually a grave disservice to children not to make them aware that other people have needs just as valid and important as theirs. I like to look at it this way - we have a FAMILY CENTERED approach in our home as opposed to a CHILD CENTERED approach. At least after kids hit the 2 yr mark, I feel they need to learn that other have needs, they may have to wait a few minutes for their needs to be met. Maybe if you shift to a family centered mindset, you could carve out a little more space for your own SELF to be and make your kids aware that that is perfectly ok. It doesnt make you a nonAP mom to lock the bathroom door or eat a sandwich without sharing or limit tv time and have expectations of your kids.

~Meeshi~ · 03-07-2005, 01:42 PM

I think you can be AP, *and* have very clear, consistant expectations of your children. I don't see how being AP means you allow your children to be disrespectful or sassy.

Consistancy is so important, in my opinion. I think it is so important to have your expectations be very clear to your children, so they know exactly what is not tolerated and what the consequences will be.

I just cannot imagine having children be so demanding or have such blantant disregard for their actions. Hugs to the Mama's who are going through that. I'd not take it for another minute.

In our house, any whinyness will result in the girls having quiet time in their beds, looking at books, so that the attitudes can mellow out a bit....