Gentle guidanceThis board is not a debate board regarding spanking vs. non spanking. While we strongly believe that children need and thrive with guidance, we also believe that hitting is not the answer. If you have come here to discuss spanking and your reasons, please desist.
Former "spankee" want to know more about gentle discipline, specifically how to not use rewards and
I just read the Punished by Rewards thread and that TOTALLY makes sense to me. I was spanked as a child and my mom did it spur of the moment when she was angry. THere were never any specific rules or guidelines - just when it bothered HER. Not consistent at all. OTOH, she praised a lot too. A WHOLE lot. Too much. I got to the point where I didn't believe her at all and couldn't take ANY of her compliments seriously (still have trouble with compliments). She would tell me I "looked like a fashion model" when I was dressed an a tee shirt with no makeup and pimples. She would tell me any picture I drew was the "prettiest picture I have ever seen", etc.
So, basically, here are my thoughts and questions. My dd is only 6 months, so we have only started thinking about discipline. I believe that ALL she needs right now is love. However, I don't believe that spanking is wrong (no flames please). I have always thought I would spank, but only when my kids were in direct disobeience or danger and NEVER pop them out of anger. I still don't think it is wrong when done the RIGHT way, but I am redirecting my thinking on this. If other means of discipline WORK, then why spank. I will only spank as a last resort. So, can you tell me what methods you use? I totally understand the concept (I think) of no rewards. I have to believe there has to be some type of punishment for some behaviors however. Okay, for instance, if (when she is older) dd refuses to wear her seat belt, I could talk to her about it, but what if she doesn't do it then? I think some decisions DO have to be up to the parent. Like if we had to be at the Dr. office or something, I would just go back there and physically buckle her myself. If we were just going to the park, I would give her a choice, and if she didn't buckle, stay at home. Know where I am coming from? So tell me how your methods work? I am totally curious here and teachable! Thanks so much!
Let me preface this by saying that we don't spank, EVER. It doesn't fit into the model of avoiding rewards or punishments to me. The important thing to understand is that punishiment and rewards are two sides of the same coin. Does that make sense at all?
Specifically, we have a zero tolerance policy WRT car seat safety. Everyone buckles up, period. You don't have to like it, but you do have to comply. I always buckle Ian in so that I can be certain his seat is adjusted correctly. We had many unhappy starts to car trips, but we also have a healthy 2 year old thanks to that rule.
Not using rewards/punishments absolutely does not mean that you aren't responsible for being a parent. What it means is that you do so thoughtfully and with care and kindness for the person your child is and will be becoming. Natural consequences are an important part of childrearing, IMO. You're definitely on the right track with the park idea and just not going if she isn't willing to buckle up. I think sometimes parents can get confused between gentle guidance and non-coercive parenting. Personally, I believe there is a place for coercion in parenting, especially WRT safety issues. I wouldn't want it to be my only tool, but it's definitely better than spanking, IMO.
If you have some more specific types of situations, I'll see if I can come up with ideas for you.
HTH!
S
Sarah L. Hallford s@kjsl.com
Mum to Ian Riley, 10/29/99
No private messages, please...I have a hard time keeping up with them.
__________________
Sarah L. Hallford
s@kjsl.com
Mum to Ian Riley, 10/29/99 and Lillian Margaret, 11/2/2003
"Our whole social order could self-destruct over the obsession with freedom disconnected from responsibility, where choice is imagined to be somehow independent of consequences." --Boyd K. Packer
Re: Former "spankee" want to know more about gentle discipline, specifically how to not use rewards
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I don't really have any scenerios yet b/c she is so young. I just made up the car seat thing. I guess I am just looking for some real life situations and real life applications for examples. Trying to clear it all up in my head, yk? Like, do you ever do time out? I guess not, that is a punishment. I am just not sure how to NOT do a punishment. Natural consequences - I am a big believer in that - after all, that is what happens when we are adults, right? But does it always work? NOT challenging at all. Just want to see how it plays out in day to day life. THanks!
Re: Former "spankee" want to know more about gentle discipline, specifically how to not use rewards
Here is an example: My oldest dd has lots of energy and sometimes can be quite impulsive. So, she'll get excited, run around, and drag her sister with her. Sounds funny now, but it isn't when it is happening. I slow her down, explain to her how she can hurt her sister, ask her to tell me why she could hurt her sister (make sure she listened & understood) & then let her play. If she does it again, I will get her involved in some sort of other play. If she does it again, then again, I talk to her and try to get her invovled in something else. You see the picture...I keep talking & redirecting. I used to spank. This works much better. Trust me on that one .
I do use time outs occasionally, but I don't consider them punitive because she only goes there when my talking doesn't work and she can't see the solution and I usually go with her. So, it is not a "Go to the time-out chair" type thing. It is, "I think it would be a good idea, since you can't work out a solution here, to go sit down on the chair in the guest room and figure out how you could have handled this better." I either go with her or go in after a minute and we talk through it. I do it that way because, as I said, she is very high energy! Sometimes she just has to be away from the situation to think about it instead of right there, KWIM? Some may argue that this is punitive, but we don't see it that way since we are trying to use the best method of teaching her how to handle things differently. We try to get her to think about ways of problem-solving rather than us always telling her what to do.
Let's see...you have a really young kiddo! I envy you that you are already thinking about this and willing to do research. I don't think I read much about discipline when my first dd was that age! The good news is that there is so much good information out there. There is another thread here on good books to read--I'd check that out.
We also have a 2 yo and things are harder there because although she is very verbal, she still is only 2 and can't understand that much! We have to put things in a short and simple manner...We like to share in our house. Can you share one of your toys with Isabel? We don't hit in our house...can you show me how to use gentle touches with Isabel? etc. Should she continue to rip toys out of Isabel's hands or hit her, I'd tell her again the rule (We don't hit, we share...) and then ask her if she wants to play a different game with me. In 2 seconds flat, she's forgotten all about it!
I understand where you are coming from as far as seeing a possibility of spanking in the future. May I encourage you, though, to read lots of good books on the subject and consider the child's point of view when they are spanked. Some parents say that they spank because they love their children and want to teach them...but do you really think children feel loved when the person they love and trust the most hits them (I use hit here not in the sense of a hard blow, but in the sense that a spank is using the hand to hit some part of the body, right?). I really don't think they feel very loved when they are spanked. I've seen the look on their face--the fear, the hurt....I beg you as a mom who has done it, consider carefully your choices now and consider yourself very blessed/lucky that you have not yet spanked and still have time to consider the other (more effective IMO ) choices available to you.
Thanks for posting here...please hang around as I learn so much when we are able to discuss these issues!
Holly thebornhome@juno.comthebornhome@juno.com</a>
Wife to Ted &
Mom to <font color=red>Catherine</font color=red> (5),
<font color=green>Rebekah</font color=green> (2) & <font color=blue>Isabel</font color=blue> (7 mos)</font color=purple>
View or leave me feedback: Amity's World ~ Ebay
Re: Former "spankee" want to know more about gentle discipline, specifically how to not use rewards
I'd highly recommend the Punished by Rewards book by Alfie Kohn, it will give you some solid reference to why and how it works.
Marshall Rosenberg (of Nonviolent Communication) uses the term - "the protective use of force", meaning when safety is an issue you act, and talk later. It also applies to some things that are "NON-negotiable" like wearing a seat belt, holding mamas hand while crossing the street etc.
Using gentle guidance doesn't mean you're a permissive parent, it means that you trust and support your child and their own individuality, their needs and wants and desires, and allow them the freedom of expressing themselves in healthy ways. It doesn't mean that you have to put up with temper tantrums, back talk, messy rooms and such. It means that you handle these things differently - without punishment, without guilt, shame or other means of coersion.
IMO - starting young is what lays the groundwork for this to be highly successful!
Time outs - I have an article if anyone is interested in reading it. I'm the article queen. LOL!
Glad you're here mama, we'll help you find a way you're comfortable with that hopefully prevents the need to feel that spanking is necessary.
<font color=purple>PEACE!</font color=purple>
<font color=blue>~Amy ~ President, Ava Marie Fan Club ~</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Sweet Ava Marie, Diva in Training and her Daddy, DH in Training (and worth saving!)</font color=red>
Treasurer, Board of Directors Northwest Attachment Parenting http://www.nw-ap.org
__________________
My Gorgeously Goofy Girls!
~Amy ~ wife, mother, superhero to Sweet Sisters Ava and Elana
Touched by an Angel of Hope ^i^ 3-05
Missing our Furry Friend Levi ^..^ 8-05
Former "spankee" want to know more about gentle discipline, specifically how to not use rewards and
. 
Linear Mode
