Gentle guidanceThis board is not a debate board regarding spanking vs. non spanking. While we strongly believe that children need and thrive with guidance, we also believe that hitting is not the answer. If you have come here to discuss spanking and your reasons, please desist.
Originally posted by PoetMom
I've "locked" my son in his room for the time out -- but hear me out. I locked it so that the power struggle is between my son and his door knob. There is no further conflict between he and I. In actual fact, his door did not LOCK from the other side -- I was holding the door closed and the knob still. He didn't know I was there -- but I wouldn't have left him alone then anyway.
No disrespect intended, but the struggle is still between you and the child. You've just disconnected from him and now he is alone. Whether you are on the other side of the door is of no consequence. Is the intention really to defer his feelings to a doorknob? If so, how does this help him learn?
I'm totally up for a few moments of chill out space if the consequence would be that a parent uses a more punitive form of punishment without it. This is more for the protection of a child rather than a teaching tool although if used regularly, it does become a punishment for the child.
Just an observation. I promise I'm not trying to pick on you.
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I did feel the need to step in and say that the book is very useful to many GOOD parents.
Of course it is. ITA. There are many many many good, no great, parents out there that use forms of punitive discipline. I see the whole process in stages. Jen was communicating to me that a punitive approach didn't seem appropriate to her. I was offering up alternative ways to help Evan. I have found value in almost every parenting book I've ever read. They all have useful information.
If the first stage is stopping yelling, spanking, or shaming, I can understand (if not agree with) books like 1-2-3 magic. Once someone gets their bearings with a new way of thinking, they are more capable of extracting the good parts out of a book and leaving the things that don't make sense or work for their family--just as you did.
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Last edited by ThirtySomething : 07-17-2004 at 12:26 PM.
Originally posted by PoetMom I recommend the book to others -- and always with the warning that the author himself has a few off the wall ideas about kids and they should take what works for them and leave the rest.
The basic premise works for many families and in a way that doesn't harm the child.
I've "locked" my son in his room for the time out -- but hear me out. I locked it so that the power struggle is between my son and his door knob. There is no further conflict between he and I. In actual fact, his door did not LOCK from the other side -- I was holding the door closed and the knob still. He didn't know I was there -- but I wouldn't have left him alone then anyway. I usually sat out the time out on the other side of the door. It was my cool-down time, too. He was 2.5. The time out starts from the moment he quiets -- and is one minute for each year of life. When he touched the knob and it wouldn't move, he quieted -- no use having a temper tantrum with a door knob -- and his time out was over in two minutes.
By the time he was three, he understood the concept of a timer. I could put a timer in the room and he'd stay till it dinged. I think it speaks to the underlying compassion of the method that he honored the time out. I certainly wasn't hitting him when he left the room.
The author may have some weird ideas but he also is very, very strongly against yelling -- he goes so far as to say that if you CAN'T stop yelling after reading there how important it is that you don't -- then you have a problem and should get counseling. That's wise counsel. (Not to point fingers -- I think many of us go through stressful periods where we are on edge.)
I am NOT defending all of his ideas. I think you have to read it and take what WORKS for you. There's more than one way to skin a cat -- do what works for your family.
And I disagree that the teacher overstepped her bounds. It's extremely common for teachers in preschools and primary grades to recommend a variety of parenting books. You don't have to read them. To the original poster: I want to be clear with my comments -- if the book rubs YOU the wrong way, don't go with it! You have to find the system that works for you and your family. But don't give up! There are so many other wonderful books out there with many different ways of helping our kids control their own behavior. I certainly can relate to having a child who is struggling with change. My firstborn's kindergarten year was very difficult because of similar issues.
I did feel the need to step in and say that the book is very useful to many GOOD parents. You know, baby and bathwater and all that....
i have a feeling this thread is going to take a little trip to another forum VERY soon.
with that being said, i have to say that i am HORRIFIED that someone here at aw would LOCK THEIR CHILD *ANYWHERE*.
Originally posted by CincoDeMama i have a feeling this thread is going to take a little trip to another forum VERY soon.
with that being said, i have to say that i am HORRIFIED that someone here at aw would LOCK THEIR CHILD *ANYWHERE*.
imo, ya might as well just swat/spank em, no?
I'm not horrified at all. The thought that Alaska isn't a good mother never crossed my mind.
I've been giving this a lot of thought lately because there have been a lot of discipline issues brought up on the board. There are certain *levels* to discipline. It is kind of like playing "this or that." It goes something like this:
Which is worse (keep in mind this is rhetorical):
Hitting vs. swatting.
Spanking vs. swatting w/ a small switch or something
Yelling vs. snapping
Yelling/shaming vs. time out
Time out vs. positive discipline
Some people are more than happy to stop at the level of
yelling vs. time out. They see everything above that as worse. They are right IMO. Once one gets to the time out vs positive discipline stage they tend to see everything above that as punitive and that is true. However, its not apples and apples. We are all at different stages during this parenting gig. Do I think there is a best way to do things? You bet! Do I agree with shutting the door and holding it so a child can't get out? No way. However, I am horrified by parents who beat their children in Walmart parking lots. I am not horrified by a mom who is actively seeking new ways to parent her child. Intentions are important in the overall scheme of things.
Also, I have no idea what other forum you are talking about. Where else would this go?
Personally, I do not think the school is out of line in recommending a discipline or parenting book. In a full day program, the school deals with the child most of his/her waking hours. They are offerring the parents a chance to be on the same page. Also, it does not sound as if anyone was being singled out. I often sent home articles on nurtrition or television when I taught school. I did not just send them to the homes where donuts were served for breakfast and a crappy lunchable was sent in the lunch sack. I sent them to everyone so no one felt singled out. I see it as a way that the school is trying to act like part of a community in which they want the parents to be involved. That said, if you really do not like the book, you might take it up with the administration, or at least the teacher to find out how it will be applied to your child.
Originally posted by CincoDeMama um, the discipline forum, perhaps?
Ok. I misunderstood. I thought you meant that it getting sent somewhere was a bad thing. I suppose I thought you meant it would go to the mod forum and I didn't see any reason why that would be warranted.
I've read the book and gleaned a few helpful things from it. I can't say it hurt to read it. I agree with all that Stacy has been saying. A lot of the book didn't feel right to me but I'd choose that over losing it any day. I like the books she's recommended and also am really liking Assertive Discipline so far, by Lee Canter.
At one point he does mention a swat on the butt to get them to their room. I loosely use it. I use it after I have said no then explained why I said no. I do listen to their side, but after awhile my "no" is not getting across. I also use it for whining.
I got the video one day. I was hoping dh would watch it since he threatens and gets out of control while counting. He is always the one to say "well if you do that again". I am suppose to follow through with his discipline which is very annoying.
My son use to hurt his sister and was in his room rather quickly. Yes he was angry, but needed to be taken away before he hurt her or broke more things. I have no quilt about that punishment. He is seldom like this since being out of school.
I use it and I highly recommend it. I don't understand why people are shocked when they disagree with something they read in a book about parenting. We don't all agree at AW and we're supposed to all be AP parents, right?
Years ago, I heard a man give a presentation of it (at a parent ed meeting I had to attend for a cooperative).
I really don't have anything against it other than it doesn't really teach the adult to teach the child how to think things through. Doing that takes an adult a lot of time and effort when it is much easier (adult wise) to 1-2-3.
It lacks a real pivotal point of helping a child understand why they should be calm, considerate and listen to others.
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