amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

julia · 07-22-2003, 11:46 AM

we went to my bro and sis in-laws this weekend because it was dh and his bros b-day (twins). our parenting style is of course NOT similar in any way. so emme had her first experience of a spanking - her cousin (6 yrs old) did something that pissed off sil and she whacked her while scraming at her. then later they were all swimming (one of those huge blow up things that has a filter) and taylor was starting to cry about stuff (that totally worn out, cry about everything kind of crying) and i walk out and hear her tearfully saying "i'm not a cry baby!". i sat down and john (dh's bro) says "we're trying to teach her the whole cry baby thing" . scuse me????????? they call their own child NAMES???????? oh my freaking god. now not only has my dd seen taylor get spanked but now she see's her being humiliated by her own parents!!!!!!!!! theytold her she was being a cry baby several times and told her to stop crying about everything. and i just KNEW emme would start saying it. sure enough on the way home she started in with the cry baby crap and yesterday she said it about 12 times which made my blood boil (emme's about to turn 4 by the way).

sooo......... what would you do? there's nothing i can say to emme about it. she's the type that if i talk about it it just reinforces the whole thing and makes it worse. would you talk to dh about it? would you make a deal not to spend a lot of time there when you visit? would you blow it off and just be glad you only see them 4 times a year? i really really HATE going over there. the older taylor gets the more stuff emme picks up that is totally not cool with me and the more things emme sees that her parents do that i think is just totallly awful. she badgers emme to do stuff she doesn't want to do too. she desperately tried to get emme to eat bacon (we're vegetarian) after emme REPEATEDLY told her that she doesn't eat animals. taylor just told her it wasn't an animal (she knows it is) and kept hounding her. i had to come in and tell taylor to quit (i was trying to get lucas to sleep and could hear them in the other room). a couple more years and it'll be cigarettes instead of bacon

no doubt in my mind.

oldiebutgoodie · 07-22-2003, 12:03 PM

I'm sorry you are having family problems. Could you talk to them maybe and tactfully explain your point of view. Let them know that thier behavior bothers you. I am sure it would be very hard to do and if they are the type you feel will get upset or not listen to you then I would really limit my association with them.

julia · 07-22-2003, 12:10 PM

i could probably talk to BIL but NOT my SIL. she's the type that if i said something it would be a dig at her parenting skills and she'd not talk to me for the next year creating a whole new pain in the butt problem LOL! she's one of those people that has a house that looks like a furniture store display and has candles and picture frames EVERYWHERE that the kids are not allowed to touch or all hell breaks loose. her 6 yr old bedroom is fancier than most grown up's rooms. her way or the highway baby.

starkl · 07-22-2003, 12:11 PM

I would tell S to talk to his brother and explain to them that you guys don't spank, and you'd really appreciate it if they felt like that was something they had to do, they should respectfully do it out of ear and eyeshot of Emme and Lucas. If any of my siblings were spankers, I'd most definitely say it to them.

As far as the name calling thing, I would've told bil right there that you don't believe in calling children names. It's hard, though, because it's not going to stop them, but at least they'd know your position.

It's tough because they're family, but honestly, I don't believe in degrading children verbally or physically and I don't want Duncan around anything like that, and I know that Martin would be in concurrence that it's just not acceptable, family or not. I get so angry when I see someone spank their child in public. No one has the right to subject my child to that. Makes my blood boil! Grrr...

{{{{julia}}}}

07-22-2003, 01:29 PM

(((HUGS))) mama. If your IL family is anything like mine It wont matter what you tell them about how you feel. In my experience with mine its best to limit our time. The time we do spend visiting is spent in almost constant supervision and stress. MY Mil made a huge sceen at a resturant beacuse I went to nurse my son (4mos) at the table. How discusting I am! (sarcastic). And I Do tell Kailyn that "We" dont act like that... ("that" being whatever it is thats terking me off). I straight up tell my DD that not everyone thinks (or acts) alike in this world but everyone has the right to think how they wish. Basically we learn to bite our lip alot. And Im trying to teach KK to do the same and to just avoid situations where she is being made to feel uncomfortable. Whats sad is that I SHOULD be able to express my feelings and have them respected but they arent by my IL's at all. I cant stand being there for long. Sorry to hear about your troubles and I wish I had a better answer for you.
Jamie ;o)

grapefruitbaby · 07-22-2003, 02:22 PM

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking them to spank in the other room. We lived with my brother and SIL for several months and they are FAR from AP but they never spanked their child in front of us. That is just basic respect for everyone involved. I would definately ask that of them.
If I were you I would talk to your dd about it. I know you said you can't but I really think we need to talk over these things with our children. My dd picked up calling people "butthole" from her darling cousins last weekend

so we explained to her that that is not a nice word and it hurts peoples feelings and it doesn't sound very nice...blah blah blah...and talked her into saying silly head instead. They need to know that even though they saw someone doing these things, someone they love even, does not mean it is ok.
I am sorry you have to go through this. It is hard watching children being treated badly.

I'll refer again to the time we spent living with family...it was the most stressful period of my life. They are truly the worst parents I have ever witnessed in my life. There was just such a lack of love, or at least the expressions of love. I feel so sorry for those children and the parents too. It is really hard to witness and I honestly don't know what we can do to help these situations. Being a good example I guess and hoping and praying is about it.

julia · 07-22-2003, 02:24 PM

i guess what makes me even more sad is that dh has no backbone when it comes to them. when we are there he just wants to ignore it and when we're not he pretends it doesn't exist. i don't know how to explain to him that i'd like to never ever spend the night w/ them again w/o it becoming a huge issue

i just wanna cry.

julia · 07-22-2003, 02:30 PM

grapefruitbaby - i actually did talk about it w/ dd and explained that it's never okay to hit or call names etc etc. i was just saying in my op that i can't talk about it more because of her name calling problem she learned from another friend. she knows it's power and she uses it

with her it's best to ignore the bad behavior or it escalates. i;m just TOTALLY irritated that cry baby is now added to her repotoire of names and it's one she learned from ADULTS!

pmjmomma · 07-22-2003, 03:53 PM

I guess I maybe have a different way of dealing with this (and it sounds like my entire family, btw). Just as I get offended when they question my parenting style, I would expect that if I questioned theirs it would offend them.

I deal with my children directly. They are going to witness all sorts of things in this world. They are going to be offered and then coerced to try things worse than bacon. we talk, talk, and then talk some more. "how did you feel when you saw your cousin getting spanked? How do you think she felt? Do you think she learned her behavior was wrong?" "I bet you felt frustrated when your cousin kept pushing you to try bacon. . . Do you think we could come up with some strong words to say to someone who is not respecting your decisions?" (um, whatever you come up with here. . . be prepared to hear it directed at you a few times

)

Now, this can get uncomfortable. Last family gathering I had a 5.5 year old who's voice has an uncanny Donald Duck edge to it and a 3.5 year old with a severe articulation disorder both stading with their hands on their hips telling my cousin "that's a mean way of speaking. If you spoke to an adult like that they would not be your friend. Your child has no choice and that makes you a bully!"

yep, that was hard, but at least I know the kids were listening. . .

edited for poor spelling

~Denise~ · 07-22-2003, 05:15 PM

Jennifer, that's almost what I do too, and how I handle it. However I admit I will say something out loud to my IL's and such if I see them spanking "out of control"....as they do. Recently we went over there and they wanted pics of dh's Mom with her grandkids......his sister's 2 yo did not want to get his pic taken, was crying, overtired, etc. The dad went over and smacked him over and over.....and then forced his head in the direction of the camera. I said "Oh no, we don't need a pictue THAT bad!"....and dh said "Don't spank the poor kid, he just doesn't want his picture taken!".....I mean for goodness sake, he is 2, not 12, and had NO idea how "important" the pic could be, etc. PLUS what a FAKE pic if we beat the kids into "smiling" and posing for it! UGH! I realize spanking is part of their "parenting", but when it got, what seemed to me, out of hand, I could not just sit there and watch.....)o:

Julia, I think if I was you? And I heard them call her a cry-baby for being tired? I would have said "Oh, poor girl! It's so hard when they get tired! Heck, we adults sometimes just get over-tired and want to cry too!".....and said it in a "nice" but firm way. I'd also address the little girl, and tell her she sounds really frustrated and tired.....treat her how you'd like to see them treat her, maybe they will watch and pick up on some tips. (o; Same with the "eat bacon" thing. I'd say to her that Emme really does not eat meat and that you need her to stop asking her to. But yes, for sure, like Jennifer said, sometimes you can make the point by talking to your kids in front of them. I know when Justin saw his cousin get spanked, he asked why the dad was hitting him....I said to him that some parents spank their kids, and that it hurts, and that was why he was crying, and that we did not believe in spanking, etc. I knew they heard me, and so did their 7 yo daughter.......

(o:

tara · 07-22-2003, 09:21 PM

Good advice here. I agree with Jennifer and Denise. Sam has witnessed degrading stuff like this before (not spanking thankfully). I do talk with him about it later. I say things like, "are you thinking about what that mommy was saying earlier today about being a crybaby? what did you think about that?" I know my child just as you know Emme, and we know that they won't observe something like that and have it roll off their back. They take it all in like a sponge, and if we discuss it with them, we have some influence over how that kind of experience is processed. Sam is like Emme in that if I speak with him about anything like that, it will be the hot topic for a while. But--I think it is worth it. Just keep reinforcing your family's stance. If she brings up the crybaby thing again, you could say, "yes, and remember what we said about how that name can hurt feelings, and how we don't call names in our family?" and "if you're ever feeling like you want to cry, it's prefectly okay...big people cry, too, and there is nothing wrong with it." I have been through a round or two of experiences like that, and seen the good benefits much as Jennifer described.

Good luck, mama. If it were me I would also really limit my visits with them to only what is absolutely necessary.

Tara

julia · 07-22-2003, 10:19 PM

umm... i see this got moved to gentle guidance but it's not really about just that. it's about how do i deal w/ the ADULTS? i think really it's more of a dh issue for me at this point