amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

pb_and_j · 06-27-2003, 11:23 PM

Mamas, I am at my wits end. Parker (almost 3.5) has been running off lately. We flew on a plane to visit my parents and he ran away from me when we were getting off the airplane into Ohare airport. Fortunately he stopped and I caught him in time, but that scared the crap out of me. Today, we went to the beach w/ my aunt and her son who is about 13 and he kept running off and about ran into the street. He won't stop and he ignores me when I tell him to stop. He just runs. Tonight I was talking to my mom and she was acting very disapproving of me and telling me how "one of these days he's going to get hit by a car" and I asked her what do you do? It was a rhetorical question, but she answered very bluntly, "spank him." We do not spank, nor do I want to. I have spanked him a couple times in the past, but it has NEVER worked. Never. I asked her what happens if I spank him and it doesn't work... keep hitting him till it does?!?!?!?!? OMG, I am so ticked at her for judging me like that and insinuating that I'm a bad parent. Grrrr.....

So I have resorted to using my sling tied around him as a "leash" and I think I'm going to break down and buy a harness. Does anyone else use one of those? Also, how do I get him to stay by me and not run off w/o the "leash"? He tries to run off everywhere and I have to have a death grip on his hand at all times. It's frustrating and frankly, I feel like a terrible parent when he won't listen to me, esp when it could be a life threatening situation, kwim?

Please help me...

Grandmommy · 06-27-2003, 11:32 PM

You are right that one of our most important responsibilities as parents is to teach our children to obey--and all too often, how well the child has learned that lesson can be a matter of life or death!

The old "carrot and stick" approach works well--something nice happens when the child obeys and something unpleasant happens when the child disobeys.

You're starting late so it will take longer (been there, done that) but, if you love your child, DON'T GIVE UP until he has learned to obey you immediately! In the meantime, you are right that a harness would be an appropriate way to keep him safe. My nearly 4yo granddaughter will now cooperate just to avoid having to wear the harness, LOL.

pb_and_j · 06-27-2003, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grandmommy
You're starting late so it will take longer (been there, done that) but, if you love your child, DON'T GIVE UP until he has learned to obey you immediately! In the meantime, you are right that a harness would be an appropriate way to keep him safe.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "starting late." We've been working on this for ages... this is not a new thing for him. I've tried different things, but nothing I've tried has worked. I'm looking for specific ideas on what to do to get him to stop this behavior, kwim?

tara · 06-27-2003, 11:57 PM

Our son is about the same age as yours. Our rule has always been "hold my hand when we're outside the house" unless he's in a stroller. Now I am letting him earn his freedom, so to speak, by letting him walk next to me. If he doesn't walk close to me, he needs to hold my hand. I remind him of this and give him the choice ("will you walk right next to me like a big boy, or do you want to hold my hand?").

Tara

Cary · 06-28-2003, 12:17 AM

As far as I'm concerned, 3 year olds just aren't trustworthy. For that matter, even the family that spanks that I know, has the occasional issue with running off with their easy-going 4 year old daughter.

This is what we do, and you probably do this already too: If he is in a situation where it could be dangerous he has to hold my hand. If we are in a store and he can't stay with me, I either carry him or pick him up and hold him there (screaming for all he's worth) until he can cooperate or I have managed to buy my stuff and get out. If I am lucky enough to be with dh, he will carry the screaming child out to the car and explain that it is intolerable for him to run away and we have to leave wherever we are if he does so. I have heard it recommended just to leave the cart of stuff in the store and go to the car and return once the child is ready to cooperate, but quite frankly, it seems to me that your stuff would be gone by the time you get back, and I'd rather just leave asap.

Anyway, I'm sure that must have been terrifying for your child to run off from you during those situations. Unfortunately, those are not situations that will be repeated often, so it is harder to teach your child that you mean business. One thing that really does help me also, is to tell my child before I get into the situation what is expected of him and what will happen if he can't cooperate. This is by no means 100% effective, but it really does make a huge difference. In fact, you can even help prepare them in advance by acting out situations. You can play pretend with your child that you are getting off the plane and talk about what it will be like and how it is very important that he stay with you.

Luckily, my kiddo is only 35 pounds so I can pretty easily pick him up and carry him when he is not being cooperative. I don't know what to tell you if you have a really big kid though. Lately I have been thinking about how much fun these episodes will be after my baby is born LOL.

I do wish you luck, and of course you already know, consistancy is the key with whatever you do.

Cary

beanzz · 06-28-2003, 12:23 AM

It is only in the past few months that Andre has stopped the "running off".
His choice was and sometimes still is...that he can hold my hand or he goes in the sling. He hates both but safety requires it. Normally by the time I pull out the second sling and get ready to sling the two boys, he decides that holding my hand is not the end of the world.

He is 35 pounds which is about the limit of most slings and he knows that I will put him in one if need be.

From the day Isaac was born there has been Isaac in the sling and an extra either in the diaper bag or at least in the car(often both)

If I have said it once, I have said it a million times. "There is a time for running and a time for walking. We walk holding hands in parking lots(or fill in the blank). We can run later at home"

I think he just really loves to run and is very fast and well ...he has a lot of energy. So chase is a game he naturally caught on to quickly.
It is fun..so who can blame them?

Personally I would use a stroller before a harness.
I always had dogs growing up and just cannot get past a harness looking like a leash. JMO

I wish you patience, persistence and luck.

pb_and_j · 06-28-2003, 12:46 AM

Thank you... I like the idea of explaining that he needs to hold my hand when we are out no matter what. Today when he was running, my cousin (the 13 yo) or my aunt was watching him, and they just didn't get it that you need to hang on to him at all times. I think I communicate w/ Parker pretty well most of the time and I can usually keep him connected to me (mentally) when we're out enough to keep him near me. But sometimes I can't and that's when he runs off.

Bret is pretty demanding himself and runs off too... can you tell we never really go anywhere??? lol

We do use the stroller a lot, but sometimes it's not feasible... like at the beach or in the airport. I also dislike the "leash" thing, but in some cases I think I will use it.... I'm definately using it in the airport tomorrow when we go back home. When we used it at the zoo the other day, I told Parker he needed to walk next to me and hold my hand or he was going to have to "wear the sling" (he flat out refused to sit in the stroller). He chose to wear the sling, but still held my hand, so it was more of a backup... I'm not going to "walk" him on it, kwim?

Parker is a "spirited child" w/ a strong will, and that makes things difficult. Pretty much no one understands how his temprement works, which is frustrating for me and can be dangerous for him.

~Julie~

Magoo · 06-28-2003, 12:48 AM

Josh is 3 now and getting better about this. But we have used the harness and I do so w/o guilt. At least I know for sure he is coming home with me. Good luck Mama, I know how frustrating it is! Kate

Mama2miracles · 06-28-2003, 10:34 AM

Well I use the harness (instead of stroller or sling) because I've got 2 children YOUNGER than 4 years old, so the sling/stroller/backpack normally will have my youngest 1 and maybe the middle child as well. It's a safety issue - there's one of me and three of them. With just one (or even just two!) - I didn't use a harness. I didn't get the harness until I had a newborn, 1 1/2 year old and 2 1/2 year old and was trying to take them all out of the house on my own. For just one child - pick them up and carry them if they won't hold your hand or walk nicely. Or use a backpack. A harness/leash will keep them safe from running off - but it'll also make them mad and generally won't help move them along in the direction you want to go. At least not at first - they do get used to it.

Now that my almost 4 year old is older, she will usually walk holding my hand or holding onto the stroller and has some concept of cause and effect. So she hasn't needed a harness for months even with all the walking we do. I've got more problems with my 2 1/2 year old - so he gets the harness if he's walking because he will dart into the street, run away, and at the airport will take off running. He's predictable for that. He ran off last year at airport security. My dh was being searched by security guards and I was trying to get the baby back in the carrier. The security guards would not let my dh go after him, so they chased after him, but not until he was out of sight....grrrr!

My 4 year old will (as mentioned above - generally walk along nicely or she'll get the harness - now IF - big IF - my 2 1/2 year old is behaving well enough, I can let him walk along and put her in the stroller now - but he has to have the harness for this because he doesn't always walk along nicely beside the stroller).

My 20 month old also will run away and doesn't walk well enough in one direction to be walking at all, so she has to be slung/backpacked/strollered. I just traveled solo on a plane trip (with a transfer) with my three children. I brought the double stroller and child harnesses for the airport and I needed both! Even with the harness - Michael managed to get loose and run away a couple of times (because I was distracted with Maddy and let go of my end - duh! - fortunately he didn't get far).

If I just had ONE child - I would/did just have them hold my hand and then pick them up and carry them or just stick them in a backpack when they started trying to get away and would backpack them in airports or other crowded situations also. I get a lot of disapproving glares and some rude comments about using a toddler leash - but I don't know how else to manage having 3 little ones and still get out of the house without risking someone darting into the road or running away. It just takes a minute of inattention for one of them to run off while I'm dealing with something with one of the other ones. So I think if you need to use the harness, then you need to. Eventually your 3 year old will start to understand that if he wants to walk alone - he has to walk WITH Mommy and not run away. The interesting thing is that my almost 4 year old HATES the harness and would rather hold my hand or hold onto the stroller but my 2 1/2 year old would rather have the extra length of the toddler leash than hold my hand or hold onto the stroller. (Not that he LIKES the leash - but I get a bigger fuss out of him if I try to get him to hold hands).

Mama2miracles · 06-28-2003, 10:53 AM

Another thing we use is the command of "stop". My natural instinct when my kids run for the street, reach for the stove, electrical outlets, etc is to say "no". But kids hear "no" a lot and they tend react in a more defiant manner to "no". So we've started using "stop" in the more dangerous situations. I've explained about needed to stop immediately when we tell them to stop because there could be something dangerous. We've also practices "stop" and "go" like a game (think red light/green light) at home. The other thing is that I do not use "stop" very often. I used it once yesterday (Maddy heading to investigate the lawn mowever our landlord left out in the yard and I was too far away to grab her before she got to it - it was off at least). Even Maddy (at 20 months) will usually (not aways, but more often than not) stop and look at me when I say "stop Maddy or Maddy STOP". Now with her, she often only looks for a minute and then turns to keep going - but it's usually long enough for me to get to her and grab her. My oldest will generally turn around and say "Why?", but then she is "stopped" and we're in a conversation. Michael will just screach to a halt and stay frozen like the game - again usually just long enough for me to get to himn. If I say "Maddy/Melissa/Michael NO" - they tend to ignore it or they don't know what I'm saying NO about, so they keep going and if I just say "NO" then they don't know who I'm talking to - so often keep going. With "stop" if all three stop, not just the one I'm after - that's not really a problem. LOL! Ack - I'm writing a book here, sorry about that.

pb_and_j · 06-28-2003, 01:38 PM

Cheryl~ Thank you.

It makes me feel better to know that I don't have the only kid who does this and that other mamas use the harness. The "stop" and "go" thing sounds like a really good idea... we need to practice that one!

~Julie~

MyYogaBaby · 07-02-2003, 10:26 PM

My dd has never been a runner, so this is just my theory (unpracticed). She's never been one to sit in a grocery cart more than 2 minutes, but she always walked along or helped push the cart so it was never a problem.

Lately, we've been telling her stories about strangers. I've found it to be a great way to get scenarios in her head. For example, "one day, there was a little girl who was playing outside in her yard. A car stopped in the street and a lady leaned out of the car window and told the little girl that she had lost her puppy. The lady asked the little girl to come to the car window to look at a picture of the puppy to see if the girl could help find it. The little girl knew that she was not allowed to talk with strangers, so she turned around and went into the house. She found her momma and told her that there was a lady outside looking for a doggie."

We go through lots of scenarios (what to do if she gets lost in a store, how to identify who a police man is, who to ask for help if she can't find mom, etc).

I don't put her exactly into the stories, because it seems to be less scary if it is a fictitious character. We make up these stories whenever she asks us to tell her a story, so they are an ongoing thing for us.

Maybe you could try this method regarding running away?

Good luck,

Kristin

MGray · 07-03-2003, 09:25 AM

I've used a harness with the 'leash'. Yes, as with most parenting tools, it can be abused. However, you don't seem like that kind of parent!

I've had my share of running off-ers. These kids seem to be the risk takers. Telling them about all the bad things that can happen just doesn't seem to sink in. They sort of have that sense of "it can't happen to me", also these seem to be your more impulsive kids that act, then think.

When I used the harness on my DS, he enjoyed the freedom of not having to hold my hand and to move about with more freedom. The harness helped to reign in his impulses. I still made him hold my hand while crossing the street or in a parking lot, because I knew that the harness wasn't going to be on him forever and he needed to understand the importance of controlling himself.

Running off has serious consequences. Don't be afraid to use a harness if it will keep your son safe. Know that you do it out of love for your child. Know that it will not harm his self-esteem or his love of exploration!

HTH - Melinda

Empathic~Heart · 07-08-2003, 02:11 PM

Ava does this too. I've gone over and over the scary parts for me with her, and sometimes she just gets overexcited and forgets. She's actually quite good about waiting right next to the car for me, or going up on the sidewalk and waiting after I take her out of her seat. But even after that, she will sometimes dart out when we get moving.

I've asked her to hold onto my purse or my pant leg, instead of me holding her hand - this seems to go over a bit better since it's her holding, not me holding. KWIM?

IMO - the "carrot and stick" method is demeaning to children, who are purehearted and want to please us as a general rule. Offering rewards for behavior we expect (as in safety issues) confuses things because the child may begin to see it as something that doesn't have inherent value in and of itself...rather, that they need to be bribed so it must be something not worth doing anyway. Does that make sense?

As far as a harness goes - if it keeps your child safe, and you use it in situations where true harm might come to him (as in a parking lot but not in the library for example) then I think it's got tremendous value. My mom used one for me when I was small too for this very reason.

I would also recommend reading "Raising Your Spirited Child" if your lil guy has lots of fire in his temperament (which it sounds like he does by your description). It may also be very beneficial to do some research on his learning style (and yours), because if he's a body/kinesthetic learner, and you're an intellectual learner - you may be trying to teach him in a way that is difficult for him to integrate and understand.

Offering choices might make a difference. Holding mamas hand or being carried (not fun with a 35 pounder but a choice nonetheless), things like that. Empower the little guy - our kids are constantly trying to figure out who they are...and by allowing them to make their own decisions even at that early age, they are developing the ability to command their own vessel. Which is what we want them to do as adults!

Good luck mama!

Daniel's Mama · 07-13-2003, 09:58 PM

My son just turned 4 and wants to walk by himself; he likes to push the cart at WalMart, although he's wreckless. I let him if it's not crowded. . . but usually he ends up running into displays or people (ack!).

He doesn't like the cart, but for HIS protection and my sanity, I will buckle him in. DH on the other hand, lets him run willy-nilly all over the place. So it can be a real challenge for me to get him into the cart - y'know, "Daddy doesn't make me do it"!

I am tempted to get a harness, for going to the mall (which we don't go to often). I remember seeing them and thinking of how demeaning they were to children. That was before I had a running child of my own though!

I like coming here and learning and feeling like maybe I am doing something right