So, here is the issue. I have been approached by a fellow church member about joining this parenting class, Growing Kids God's Way. I have read all I can find on the net. I know almost 101 reasons why I will NOT be involved in it. I do not feel that Ezzo's take on parenthood is Biblical, but to be honest some of what I have read almost sounds cult-ish to me. Anyone actually take this class or read the book themselves. Obviously if we are AP atleast most of us would disagree with a lot of his views, but I am really interested in what fellow Christians feel about it. I am torn because, unaware, I was telling a good friend from another town/ different church about it only to find out that she was one of the other 5 couples to be in the group. Now my stomach is in knots. Any firsthand info with this course or organization.
I don't feel Ezzo is Biblically based. The funny thing is, I was just had this conversation with another person last night. She is a therapist -- specializing in Christian counseling. She does not feel Ezzo lines up with Christian principles and fought it when someone tried to bring the program to her church. Her church will not teach Ezzo's ideas. She has done extensive research about Ezzo and has found many disturbing things -- she thinks it is not only NOT Christian but also harmful. I also remember reading some things that indicated Ezzo had some struggles within his own church. Everyone (that I've talked to) at my church embraces Ezzo and/or some of Ezzo-type ideas. It is the biggest problem I have with my church. I don't have much time right now or I'd find some links that discuss why Ezzo's ideas are not Chrisitan. I am sorry if anyone who is reading this disagrees -- but that is my opinion and the opinion of many others. I am surrounded by people who buy into Ezzo -- my church and my family. It makes me sad that people don't take a closer look at Scripture.
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~Rondi~
Wife to Rich. Mama to 8 year old Elisha (aka Mr. Memory); 6 year old Chloe (aka a real life Diva) and 4 year old Jadon Jack (aka Mr Messy)
There is a little booklet on there about the Christian perspective and ezzo...I have to run our I'd give you a direct link. I DO NOT consider Ezzo's philosophy Christian in the slightest and that site has tons of references to scripture!
wow, I'm surprised your pastor would have his classes at your church still. 2 years ago(if I remember right) after being dis-fellowshipped from his 3rd or 4th church, he was deemed unsuitable for Christian leadership based on his practice of unaccounability to a church organization, outright fraud regarding his education, and the advice /information given in his books, and sowing discord amoungst various church leaders by lying and slandering them. Christianity Today has written articles that goes into the cult aspect/following of the Ezzos. Any kind of baby care you want to learn about can be learned elsewhere, and that's what I would do.
I would run far far away. I would go so far as to say, I would find a new church. We did. Actually, same church different campus. 2 years after my first son was born, after a few years of GKGW at our church, our head pastor stood at a pastor's conference and apologized and asked forgiviness for introducing this program to members of our church. His wife told women at the Women's Bible study to not throw the books away, but rather burn them so noone would get a hold of it.
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~Jennifer~
wife to a lifeguard hunk
mom to 4 boys On Your Left... Athlinks
I also was approached by a good "friend" at church a couple of years ago about taking this class. I politely declined for similar reasons to what you're saying. Though I didn't realize till just now that Ezzo was the author of that book (I knew he had other "Christian" parenting books). My friend just wasn't ok with me not getting on board and using the techniques "God's way." She had a real problem with our co-sleeping, extended bf'ing, slinging, even cloth diapering! (That was looked on as unsanitary).We argued several times about these, always with her trying to convince me that I was doing the WRONG thing for my baby. Others in the church made comments as well, and eventually I didn't feel comfortable staying and we stopped attending church there. I just felt like a fish out of water there. Oh, and this friend of mine stopped speaking to me several weeks before we left the church. Very painful and uncomfortable.
I guess my point is, if I were you, I wouldn't give up my convictions. It strikes me as a little dictator-ish, a little Nazi-ish for others to force their views on you with something so personal as parenting decisions (or for any issue for that matter.) It's not as if you are a Satanist or something! The pressure can be intense, so don't feel alone. I know other mamas have been through this too. If you decide to switch churches, I know there are several others that are more AP friendly. I have heard that the Vineyard churches are this way. We've been meaning to go check out one in our area.
Hope this helps, let us know if you need more support. And this reply was in no way meant to offend other Christian mamas. -Laura
Before we were married, Dh's boss (and minister who married us) was telling Dh about this. Dh was all excited about it, as was I since it was something Christian and Dh is not. We visited the minister's family as a sort of pre-marriage counseling thing. Let me tell you, the 4 most well-behaved loveable kids I've ever met. They were like age 2 to 10. I was so wanting to do this program with our children.
Then we found AP, and after finding AP found out about Ezzo. I'm still baffled as to how these people that we know could do that program (teach it even) and have the most wonderful kids ever.
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Ds 6.75 yo
Dd 2.99 yo (but don't tell her she's not 6)
Yea, but *why* are those kids so well behaved? Taught by fear and "methods"? Shame, etc. Or behaving because they care about themselves and other people, because they want to be "nice", etc. I know a lady here who Ezzo's, and she does not "allow" her kids to have "tantrums"....And no, not the "I want it!" screaming in the store kind...LOL. But the crying, overtired, pushed past their time and age kind.....they are punished for daring to show those emotions in public or in front of anyone....it's really sad. Her kids hold everything in, and it worries me. I watch them play at preschool, and they are well behaved, but there's something about them that worries me. )o:
__________________ "Custom will reconcile people to any atrocity."
George Bernard Shaw
I just wanted to chime in because something you said struck me so deeply. I've never realized it before, but you just hit on exactly why I am who I am. As a child, I was punished (harshly I might add) for crying and it didn't matter why. I remember getting a very bad spanking for crying when I fell and gashed my knee open. I was not allowed to show any emotion other than happiness. As I grew, I had a very hard time with my emotions. I have an explosive tempter that I've had to work amazingly hard to overcome (and still have a long way to go). At my own mother's funeral I couldnt cry..and I never really knew why until now. As a child, I was taught that any kind of sadness or upset resulted in spankings and verbal abuse. I really feel for those children who arent allowed to show emotions...its a hard road to over come. This has really made me realize why I dont want Lauren to behave because of threats and fear....wow
Thank you for helping me come to an important realization! Now back to the thread at hand
Oh Jamie, I am so sorry. )o: But it is true, for these kids too.....I watch them get hurt, say banging heads with another child, and they will both be sore and hurting, and the one will "suck it up" super fast, not even wanting to cry, holding back tears saying "I am ok, I am ok".....it's really sad. You want to scream no, you are NOT ok, it's OK to cry and show pain! )o: Same thing for when we went on a field trip.....none of the kids wanted to leave, and at age 4, they do cry and show sadness at having to leave, totally normal......their Mom would look at them with this weird glaring look, and they'd stop showing whatever emotion it was they were showing...like looking sad about leaving, laughing hard and silly over something, etc. It's just weird. They always look at adults when doing things too....as if they wonder if they are "supposed" to be doing it, is it ok to roll around like this, etc. And the Mom is always nice to the parents, really sweet, acts normal with us/them. )o:
It's very sad and hard to realize how childhood things like that/this affect us as adults, and how in some people it continues, and the cycle is perpetuated, and how in others it is the total opposite, and their past pain or hurt or anger makes them the total opposite of how they were treated/raised/parented. I do think realizing it, and as hard as it is, looking into it inside yourself, is really important.....it was/is for me in my own mothering and self. (o: ((HUGS))
Thanks all. I have found tons of links. Articles that sadden me and scare me about this man and his beliefs. Maybe it shouldn't but this is really bothering me. I'm stuck with this feeling that I should do something, but what? DH says when this women asks again to just tell her he said "No". Oh, she will ask again too. She is very persistent. Then I could say that if he says no I must submit to that. He is saying no, but part of me really wants to tell her every last issue I have with the whole program. Part of me really wants to show up at the pastor's office and present him with the issues I have with this. That would be the mommy part of me that wants to defend her children & everyone else's. But, I have not read the book myself and do not have near the Biblical training of this couple who teach it or the pastor. I'm sure in their eyes I would be just some radically-misguided-following worldly-advice-passive-not fit for parenting mommy. I'll look like a looney-toon I am sure. The "reason" she approached me is that we have a son with some special needs that we are in the process of diagnosing. He does have some behavioral issues. He also has delays in speech, fine & gross motor skills & sensory issues. She has not said so, but I think that she feels we are to blame. That we are inconsistent and too passive with him & we created his problems. From what I have read this is the attitude of the GKGW course and that in the 3rd edition they said like 95% of ADD/ADHD children were caused by permissive parenting. Again, this is from 2 seperate web sites & not something I read in the book as I have not actually read the book. That will be an issue I am sure if I tell any of these people me feeling about this thing. Now I fear that my dearest friend will join this group. She is the one person that besides dh that has been real supportive in the search for a dx for ds. If she joins this group there is a strong chance that I will lose her support & friendship. I just can't shake the sadness..... Thanks all. I don't know what to do. I'll pray hard I guess and wait to see how it all unfolds.
Blech! Have you seen www.aolff.org ? She has a book I've been wanting, but can't cough up the $18 for, LOL. Also, there's a yahoo group, called Positive Christian AP (I think).
And you can get a ton of info from the ladies at www.gentlemothering.com
I personally would print off all the anti-Ezzo....
info I could find online and give it to the pastor. I would also tell your friend. The fact that several churches have dumped the guy and I think even the American Academy of Pediatrics came out against him because he is not a Dr. and does give medical advice on kids. And havent a couple Ezzoed babies died from dehydration from being on such a rigid feeding schedule? This guy thinks that from birth childrens only goal is to MANIPULATE parents. A crying newborn is MANIPULATING you - barf, gag, what a sicko!!!! I really think he is bad news and I would print off the most balanced convincing article against him I could find and disseminate it freely amongst the people who mentioned it to you and then I would also look for another church. Just my .02
I'm still baffled as to how these people that we know could do that program (teach it even) and have the most wonderful kids ever.
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