really good book, IMO. We try very hard to live by it. A lot of it can seem like very minor differences...FI, letting your child know they can pick out a treat at the grocery store VS telling them they can have one *if* they behave. But, the author is very good at pointing out the long term effects of those seeming minor differences.
HTH!
S
Sarah L. Hallford s@kjsl.com
Mum to Ian Riley, 10/29/99
No private messages, please...I have a hard time keeping up with them.
__________________
Sarah L. Hallford
s@kjsl.com
Mum to Ian Riley, 10/29/99 and Lillian Margaret, 11/2/2003
"Our whole social order could self-destruct over the obsession with freedom disconnected from responsibility, where choice is imagined to be somehow independent of consequences." --Boyd K. Packer
Can you explain more please? For example, you say they can have a treat when you check-out at the grocery store and they misbehave (I can't even think of an example, but just work with me here LOL). So, then what? Do they still get one?
anything that is contigent/reward based is a controlling behavior. By telling them that they get a treat only if they're good, they're being controlled by the reward and punished if they don't/won't/can't manage to live up to the contingency. FWIU, the author feels that ALL rewards are linked inherently with punishment. IE...no matter what someone might get as a reward, the threat of punishment is always hanging out there. He cites about a million studies that show that rewards actually DECREASE productivity and compliance and breed resentment within both children AND adults. So, he advocates eliminating rewards altogether since they don't work.
How we handle this specifically: We do the treat WHILE we're in the store. Ian picks out a sucker or a snack or something fun and enjoys it in the store. We don't necessarily buy something, I keep stuff in the diaper bag. It keeps him from having the opportunity to get out of control and I get to enjoy my shopping. I'm controlling the situation instead of rewarding/punishing Ian. Does that make sense?
I'm not an expert on this at all. My experience is from having read the book and trying to put it to use IRL for us.
HTH!
S
Sarah L. Hallford s@kjsl.com
Mum to Ian Riley, 10/29/99
Well Rae, if they misbehave then you communicate with them about what they have done, how you're feeling and what you are requesting of them...but that also gets into non-violent communication - one of my truest loves. http://www.amitymama.com/images/icons/smile.gif
I have a great article I can send you if you like, pm me your addy and I'll send it over!
<font color=purple>PEACE!</font color=purple>
<font color=blue>~Amy ~ President, Ava Marie Fan Club ~</font color=blue>
This is one of my all-time favorite books/topics!!! I read this back before I had kids, and I was teaching violin full-time. I really got to put this into action. It really does work. If you say you will get something if you do this, it is just the other side of the same coin where you say if you do this, this is your punishment. It addresses the reason that someone is doing something. Rewards do work in the short run, but not in the long run. This book has a great chapter on the work-place. My dh manages a lot of employees, and he sees adults all of the time that cannot understand the concept of just doing something well "because". They have to get a reward (or compliment) for everything! I would like my children to act a certain way because they want to, even if I am not there.
I saw a big difference in my students (young & old) when I was more careful with my compliments. I know that sounds strange, but if I just gave back actual information, they stayed on task longer, and were more satisfied. For example: That time your 2nd finger was in tune. Instead of just saying "great" or something.
Practicing is a big one. It is easy to fall into the trap of using rewards to get them to practice. Instead, it is better in the long run to address "why" they don't want to practice. It could be environment, time of day, too many activities, etc. I eventually ended up with a large studio of 50+ that practiced with no external reward systems from parents. They did it because they wanted to. The reward was intrinsic to each student.
Now I get to apply it to my own 2 children, and I love it! Not always the easiest road, but in the long run I think it will pay off.
The book is full of lots of studies, and he goes into all of them in great detail. It is not light reading, but well worth it.
This is all just fascinating! I PM'd you my address BTW!
I've never heard of this book or this line of thinking and it really has *me* thinking!!! I'd like to learn more. I do talk with my oldest dd a lot about things--I keep running dialogues with her, but she *thrives* on praise. Really, I can tell that she has a better day when I am noticing what she does more and telling her that she is doing well following the family rules, playing well with her sister, etc. So--this author suggests saying "You are doing well playing with your sister" versus "Good job"--I'm a little confused, can you tell? LOL. Sorry...walk me through this here.
Praise is really a form of a reward, and can be overused a lot. I see kids all of the time that honestly can hardly function unless someone is praising their every move. If you are trying to teach/reinforce concepts, then simply give information. It doesn't mean you never get excited and say Good Job! But we all have heard that forced/fake praise that we sometimes do with kids.
One of the studies in the book talks about a group of children doing puzzles. The same children are offered $ for each puzzle they do. They lost interest and no longer wanted to do puzzles. If you have to reward/praise me, then maybe the thing I was doing doesn't really merit me doing it.
Sorry if this is more confusing. A. Kohn lays it out so much better in his book!
I've had this book for years, but am only half-way through (when DO mamas have time to read??)
Anyway, I love this book. It's very Montessori, who also denounced both punishments and rewards. I basically never praise Abel, at least not in any typical way.
The basic jist of the book is to be REALLY specific about compliments. Try to avoid the words good, well, great, that sort of general thing, and go for detail instead. For example, instead of, "You plaeyd really well with your sister," you'd say, "You shared the book with your sister and gave her a hug."
Rewards kill of a child's motivation. You wouldn't beleive how many kids I know who have to be coaxed to pull down their pants to potty, or take steps to the car, by getting raisins, sweettarts, etc. Makes me SICK!
If you never start the whole reward punishment game, a child can create their own motivation within themselves, and be truly proud of the accomplishments that they make, without relying on someone else pattig them on the head.
How do you get this to work when other caretakers don't use it? Let's say DH and I decide to go this route (which we will, lol) but my Mom doesn't. Does that confuse the child or do they just adapt to the different situations?
Punished By Rewards
Linear Mode
