when you and SO differ on discipline OR dh has his head up his kazaoo (re spanking)
I"m at a loss...I hate typing what I'm about to type. It makes me sad, it's hard to admit and it scares me.....the title implies it's about my dh but that's only half the problem.
I have hit my children. I have been so out of control angry I have hit my dd much harder than I intend. I"ve worked at stopping and do well for a while sometimes months even but it doesn't last and it's because of me.
Part of the reason I' stuggle so much is that I try to talk to my dh about issues like this or try to talk to him about something one of the kids did that I'm frustrated about and his immediate reaction is "I would have just smacked him/her and that's the end of it"
He really seems to believe that our children are exceptionally difficult and we need to spank them. He often sites a friends kids as a good example of behavior and the fact that this family does not hit only proves to him that thier children are 'easier' than ours
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MY CHILDREN!!!! I want to scream it! I need backup, I need support in my decisions and he will not even listen, books are useless he thinks I read too much
THis is not making sense and I need to add to it but i want to post this and hope someone will understand. I'm sorry if this offends or violates amity's rules, I am not trying to justify any of my actions here
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Amelia
mama to Olivia (3/98) and Michael (10/99)
*~*~Sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here~*~*
Amelia, I understand where you are coming from. Anger is very scary and I have swatted Daniel once, and it scared me to death. Lucky for me, my dh doesn't believe in spanking, so we can work together.
I wish there was a solution for your family.
One thing that my dh says is that if spanking worked, parents would only have to do it ONCE and there'd be no more problems.
I so wish I could be there right now to give you a hug. You really sound frustrated and confused and I feel like I can understand exactly what you are saying since I have been there. In fact, my dh was behind me reading your post and nodding his head. I just got offline to talk with him and thought I'd get some sage advice, but umm....well, let me tell you what he said.
He said he understands why some people spank and he thinks it is acceptable. But he said that it is not best for our family because of our temperaments (we both can get mad fast & easily) and because our oldest is a bit more difficult. (Everything we have read says that spirited children react *worse* to spanking than gentle discipline).
Well, after arguing about the "spanking being acceptable for some families" (we disagree on that point), I thought about what he said and decided to include it anyway. Here's why--even though he thinks spanking is acceptable for some families, *we* have decided to not spank anymore and have stuck to it now. Our home is much better for it. So, my point is, even if you can't get your dh to think spanking is bad or harmful, perhaps you can just move him to think that spanking is not best for your family (and of course, hopefully, the rest will come later).
Amelia, I heard you say that you have hit your daughter as well. I think I know what you are saying. And I don't believe you are violating Amity's rules because you are asking for help, you are saying you want things to change. We are a family here, and we want to help you. I do not hit my children, but I am no better than you. I have hit ("spanked") my children and made various other mistakes.
Most importantly, I think it is important to realize that it is your anger or lack of control that makes you hit your children. Children will make mistakes. Children will "misbehave" or "disobey." Your husband saying that your children are particularly difficult makes me think that he is not around other children very much. Being around another child for an hour or two usually doesn't show much. *We thought that, too!* Then when we really made a point of talking to our friends about our kids' behavior (in seeking advice) and spent more time with children the same age, we started to see that they all do pretty much the same things! Yes, some are more strong-willed than others, but like I said, those kids respond horribly to spanking. So a strong-willed child is no excuse for spanking (no type of child is, but you understand where I'm going, right?).
Almost *all* of my friends spank. And while I don't bring up the discussion with them, when they bring it up, the best point I give them (according to them) is that our children behave about the same/make the same mistakes despite our discipline methods. And I sleep better knowing that I haven't harmed our children while helping them navigate our world, KWIM?
I used to lay in bed at night and cry about hitting my oldest daughter. Know what--she still cringes sometimes when I'm angry. I can never take back what I did to her (and what my dh did). But I can start *now*. I can start *today*. Yes, we still have slips now and then (not hitting her but losing our cool), but every day we come closer to a peaceful home where our children are not afraid of us. It's just one step at a time, Amelia--and I know you can do it.
I strongly believe you need to sit down and talk to your dh. Don't tell him you read about not spanking in a book since he doesn't like to hear that (makes me kind of laugh cause my dh thinks I've always got a book in my nose, too!). Tell him this is weighing on your heart. Since he seems closed to the idea of not spanking or thinks kids need spankings, perhaps you could ask to experiment with no spanking for a period of time because you are having a hard time mothering the way you want to when it involves violence. Don't necessarily set a time LOL, just say let's try it for "awhile" and then COMMIT to helping each other every step of the way. If dh gets angry, you take over. If you get angry, he takes over. We still do this at our house and it helps immensely. Sometimes, you get so knee deep in it that you just have to step away. An argument with a 4 yo about he said/she said is NO FUN! LOL
Do you pray? If you do, ask God to change your heart. If you don't, still work for peace. Now peace doesn't mean a home full of disobedient kids because you don't spank! Kids will do well when they are not afraid and respected--they really will! And they'll learn to do it for the right reasons. As an aside, I'm amazed at how many more "I love yous" and hugs and kisses I get now that I am not hitting my older daughter. Our relationship is blossoming so beautifully!
I know I wrote a book. And I apologize for that. I can just feel your pain and frustration. Being a mom is the most difficult job in the world, and it requires our very very best efforts all the time. We are always here for you--to help you, to encourage you. And I'm serious. I'd love to talk with you IRL. I'll PM you my phone number.
You just hang in there hon, and have that talk with dh as soon as you can. And perhaps your dh will come around once he sees you disciplining in different ways.
I know others on this board will have some great advice. I'll be thinking of you and praying for you.
Thanks guys, posting this was really scarey, taking the thing I hate most about myself and putting it up for everyone to judge been nauseus all afternoon.....
I am becoming much more aware of my reactions and really noticing in my children the things that upset me the most are the things that I do too.
Like I expained to dh this morning, when ds is upset his reaction is to scream and often hit....well duh that's exactly what the adults do too! then he gets in trouble for that!
I'm having a hard time getting my point across to him b/c when I say ____is what WE do wrong he hears only what HE does wrong, yes I am criticizing OUR parenting skills. mine just as much as his
It is so hard to calm down and use good judgment when both kids are using my lap to fight on and dd is SO intense she's asked me a question 16 times before I clear my throat much less think it over and give her an answer at that point I'm gonna say no to anything! This is the hard part! this is the part that counts the most! we cannot keep doing it the way that seems easiest at the time! I wish more than anything we had never gone down this road, I always thought I knew better but when I go tthere I took the easy way.
I"m shutting up now, I"m just rambling at this point, I need some support when I am ready to BLOW anybody got any ideas?
First of all, change yourself. Don't worry about your dh just yet.
The best way to change your dh is to let him see that you can handle things *just fine* without spanking--that the kids respond well to other types of discipline. (And don't be "in your face" about it either--none of this "I am better than you are" attitude.)
Why don't you sit down and think of the most common infractions in your household. Make a list of the top ten or so. Then come up with punishments that "fit the crime". If your children are old enough, involve them in the decision-making process. For example, throwing a toy at someone = toy is put away for one week. Eating snack over the carpet = snack is taken away, no more food given for one or two hours.
Show the rules to your kids. Have them written; it's important.
Then, if you catch them breaking those rules, tell them "You have broken X rule, you know the punishment!" And do it.
Will you still get angry? Sure! I have a terrible temper, I'm still working on it. But I can YELL the words at them if worse comes to worse. I've never actually hit them.
True, yelling at them is not ideal. But right now you are learning to get your physical response under control. Verbal control will follow later.
I talked to dh a little last night, it wasn't a fight but I made it clear that there really is NOTHING wong w/our children, he gets SO frustrated with them so easily.
As for myself which is the real issue, I was on the brink the other evening and I really needed to step away, count etc....they totally try otfollow me like crazy when I try to do this but I went into the bedroom and shut the door for a minute and this is going ot sound really bad but it helped me alot, a terrible thought cam into my head and I said it outloud (quietly they couldn't hear me) "I'm gonna knock the crap out of that kid" I actually said it and it snapped me back to reality fast! I had to question myself "c'mon woud you really do that? NO!" I'm not sure I can stop myself from having violent thoughts, but thoughts are not actions and if I can accept the thought I seem to be able to calm down and think my actions thru, the hitting always happens when I'm re acting w/o thinking. SO far it's worked a few times
I feel really exposed and I wish I had started this anonomously, but it has helped me alot to be able to get these thoughts out somewhere and get a little feedback and support. It's really got me thinking about alot of things.....
Amelia, you were brave to post this! I know it is hard to admit things like this and to ask for advice, all the while being worried about what people will say. I don't know if I could have done it.
I have made many mistakes with my oldest (6.5), also, including spanking a few times. He is so trying! He asks questions 16 times also. But I know this is not an excuse for me to hit him. Last night I told him (nicely) that he has to stop asking the same question over and over and over. It drives me insane.
Also, when I am in a bad mood (even if I am trying hard not to show it), he picks up on it and starts acting out. He totally picks up on my moods and it affects him.
I have been so cranky at home lately I don't know if I can really help you. My 6.5 yo is actually going through a really easy phase (besides the question asking) but my 2yo just started yelling, screaming, throwing tantrums and it is so hard! I am trying to get out and exercise and lose weight so I feel better and healthier and then I hope I can do better with my kids. I have been having a
*really* hard time lately.
Also, my dh can be the same way about comparing our kids to other people's kids. He still thinks it sometimes but I can usually convince him that our kids aren't any different after talking for a while (or arguing LOL).
I don't think I've helped you here but I just wanted to say that you are not alone.
I didn't see your pic before (or did you just put it up?). Your children are BEAUTIFUL! Robin & Emma gave you some awesome advice here and I'm so impressed that you were brave enough to post. We're all human here and we can all help each other out if we only allow others to help, KWIM?
Amelia, you should be really, really proud of posting this. It took plenty of guts to admit something about yourself that you know isn't accepted where you're posting it. You realized that you need help and you asked for it. You're a cool mama for doing that!
Thanks a TON for posting this! For the past 5 or 6 weeks I have wanted SO badly to ask real moms for help with this, but it's forbidden on both boards I go to. I wrote a "book" about my Qs and then didn't post because I'm afraid to break any rules here. I have real Qs I need answered.:-( I don't want to debate the merits of spanking. I want to stop completely if I can find something that works as well. That's my prob - it does work here even though it's rare I've had to use it. Please someone tell me what you do for direct disobediance or defiance.
PS - if we can't talk about it here (not sure if it's within the rules) maybe folks could email me because I'll need to ask Qs and I don't want it to look like I'm debating. I have real and serious Qs to which I need answers.
PPS You all will think I'm warped but I'm not big on time outs. I'd like to find something immediate that gets over with right away and everyone gets on with their lives. I'm also just not a huge fan of the isolation thing. See - told you you'd think I was weird...
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Candace: Mama to Mollusc, Sluggie, Fishy, and the homebirthed Prawn!
P0F4X0
OMG Candace! I was SO nervous about posting it and then when I saw you had responded I freaked 'cause you're a friend and I didn't want you to think less of me, what a relief! I doubt I'm alone here....
I"m finding the biggest problem come when the 2 of them fight, which is ALOT! and they just have to get away from each other for a few minutes, Livie to her room and Michael to the couch and I set a timer for 3 min. I'm an introvert I have to get away myself for a minute or two to keep my cool, it's the only way to survive!
last night ds was fussy and i was trying to finish up in the kitchen, he picked up a wet yucky sponge and threw it at me! hit me right in the face, mouth open.....RAGE! I picked him up (dh was watching tv in the bedroom) took him to dh and closed the door while I went ot go calm down, well dh got mad and yelled at me "what are you dumping a screaming kid on me for?"
"for his own protection!" I answered...once i clamed down and rinsed out my mouth (I had just wiped up spilled salt, the work of ds) the whole incident was almost funny...almost
I don't know if this is working or not, I should prolly take this to a private journal b/c writing things out is helping
spanking does get immediate results but they don't last, the same problem keeps coming back....w/sending them away from each other I'm hoping maybe they'll learn how to recognize when they need space from each other, the "punishment" does fit the crime when the timer beeps they apologize (and I didn't tell them too!) to each other
ya know what Mikey says when Livie hits him? "Livie spanked me!" he doesn't see the difference.....maybe there isn't one......that's what really got me a few weeks ago....
Hey - I'll PM you later today. Mom and sis are here - oh yeah and it SNOWED - woke up to white ground.:-( It melted but then flakes started zinging around again a few mins ago. I MISS CA!!!!!!
Okay...here goes again! I wrote up a huge reply and it disappeared into cyberspace. Of course it may be good for you...you will get the abbreviated version this time.
Anyway, I also dislike timeouts, but sometimes there seems to be no "natural" consequence so I use it anyway. But to me, no matter what the consequence, if you don't get at the root of the problem, the "behavior weed" will keep popping up over and over.
So...as soon as the consequence has occurred, whatever it may be, (and when the kid has stopped sulking, LOL) I take that child aside and have a one-on-one chat with him. We talk about why the behavior is wrong and why it needs to stop. I explain to my children that if they have still these behaviors when they grow up, it will handicap them. And often I have to explain to them that yes, Mommy *is* handicapped in these areas (defiance and temper control!), and that I am working on them, and that I sure wished these issues had been worked out when I was a kid.
It has seemed to help somewhat.
Anyway, the other day I overheard Samuel talking to Simon...Simon had hit Samuel, and I couldn't get up right away to do anything about it (baby was nursing to sleep). The conversation went something like this:
"You shouldn't hit people even if you are angry. Jesus doesn't like it."
"But then what should I do if I get angry?"
"Well, there's this thing called controlling your temper. And you can control your temper and not hit someone, even if you really want to."
It was so cute, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. But it was clear to me that my efforts of the last year or so have not been in vain.
when you and SO differ on discipline OR dh has his head up his kazaoo (re spanking)
Daniel and me...obviously I forgot to smile 
!
been nauseus all afternoon.....
But right now you are learning to get your physical response under control. Verbal control will follow later.
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