Just wondering, because I think people have different view points.
Does it mean buying the cheapest stuff, because it is cheap?
Does it mean buying gifts as far in advance as you can, because it went on sale?
Does it mean having boxes and boxes, shelves and shelves of food, because it went on sale?
Does it mean living more simply?
I'm trying to adjust my thinking. I keep thinking I need to be more frugal, when I think I mean I need to live more simply. We just do not need more stuff. Yet, when I see shirts for my son at $3-4 a shot, I tend to buy a handful, instead of one. I don't think buying a case of canned veggies is a bad thing, when they go on sale 4/88 cents, because we tend to run through them. However, the neighbors think they are frugal because they go shopping every day, watch the sale prices drop, then buy stuff. Is this frugal?
I just want to streamline my life a bit. We are constantly having to juggle financially, and we don't need to be doing that. I make a big deal about food. And while I want to be able to cook healthy, I don't think it needs to take the priority it does in our lives. Christmas isn't about what food is or isn't there, but about the people there and enjoying the time. People will eat what is there, and usually won't complain about what isn't there (unless you are my MIL). We need to enjoy the simple things in life...time with each other, going for walks (or sledding rides) instead of how to keep up with neighbors on their vacations.
Of course, I want to do things as cheaply as possible, but I don't want to lower the quality. Make sense?
What are your thoughts on frugality?
__________________ Missy
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My take on frugality
To me, frugality is doing what I need to do to live comfortably (not paycheck by paycheck) while being able to keep my kids out of daycare.
It is buying cars that look good and are safe but also that can be paid for by cash.
It is shopping wisely and understanding our consumption enough to not overestimate "buy it because it is on sale" purchases.
It is training my children to understand that I am not a meany for keeping expensive sugary stuff from their consumption but rather that I care about our health and the future of our family.
It is buying property that will allow us to become self sustainable so that we can be more healthy, have more free time, and be able to pay off our debt faster.
It is the thinking that less is more... Less time cleaning= more time as a family, Less junk in our bodies= longer healthier life, etc...
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I consider myself frugal--but others don't. I like to buy the highest quality item at the best price. For example. When my oldest was a baby, I did in home daycare. I used disposable diapers, as did the children I cared for. I saw all kind of diapers. one child used "premium" dipes (either Huggies Supreme or Pampers Premium) They worked great, absorbed, rarely leaked, no gel leakage etc., others used plain old huggies or pampers or Luvs. They worked perfectly fine. Still others used any variety of store brand (one did not even have inside leg gathers--so when baby pooped--it was everywhere. Now--the mom who bought the store brand (which leaked feces all over my house) considered herslef frugal. . .I think she was just cheap. She tore through three times as many of these diapers, and had to do at least twice the laundry as the other moms. The midprice brands worked fine--that is what I used.
My other example is laundry detergent. I use Tide. It seems to cost more, but it works better and I use less. When I used Purex I used twice as much and my whites turned grey, not very frugal, just cheap.
White bread is cheaper than whole grain, that is not frugal--that is cheap (and unhealthy)
I buy high quality products at the best price I can find. Most of my kids clothes are used, but they are good, long wearing brands. My sister would prefer to buy new at Walmart for the same price that I buy used at the resale shop, becasue she wants new. . .the clothes I buy last longer.
Also. . .I live in a small town with a downtown that for now is thriving, I pay a bit more to sustain our local economy, rather than feed the big box corporations. It costs more for now--but in the long run it all comes back to me.
I am frugal, I ry not to buy crap I don't need. I still am far from perfect. There are things I refuse to compromise, food being one of them. We live in a small house, we drive a small, used car. We live within our means. To me, this is frugal.
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Pam,
mama to Andrew(6/96) William (5/99)
Owen (3/02), and Ethan (4/04)
Wife to Matt since 6/11/95
[
Pam...Throwback mama...I am with you there, I think there is a diffrence in being cheap and being frugal....I also feel I live frugal although I am not cheap, could I be more frugal...yes, but at least I try. To me living frugal means living within your means (and also being able to give even if very little to others in more need than you). Frugal means being able to have something left after meeting your needs, not buying on impulse(I am not perfect here but do try) not always having to have new, although if I buy used I do want best quality, and I do buy new if the sale price keeps me within my means...YKWIM? I have lived much more frugal, when income was much more tight...but it still fit into my deffinition, of living within my means.
I'm bumping this, just to see if there are more opinions on this.
As I said, I'm looking to simplify my life (to use a more "trendy" word), and spending less money on things is my #1 goal.
We make enough money to just barely make it with me not working. I have a lead on a full-time telecommuter job doing what I do freelance (editing). I'm afraid to even put my resume out there. I am enjoying my two weeks off right now from my freelance work, and am thankful for my flexible schedule since I've been sick for what seems like forever.
Things like mortgage payments, utilities, gas for the car (I fill up my car only one time per month. I think I need to get out more often), telephone, cable modem (deductible expense for my freelance business), car payments: these are all necessities. However, $400/month in groceries, or $150 a month at Target are completely obscene. No wonder we're having some financial difficulties.
Anyway......I'd love to hear more input. I'm looking for information on how to accept a different way of living, how you made it---or are wanting to make it---work. How your family benefits from frugality/simplicity. How you have grown from it? Or even the bad stuff, like how deprived you feel, or there is a "keep up with the Joneses" mentality.
For us there was a bit of an adjustment. We are moving towards doing it for ourselves. Example: We buy dried beans and cook them, I make our own bread. This allows us to have a high quality product at a low price, especially as my mom gave me her languishing on the shelf bread maker.
It does mean that I have to be on the ball, or I get mournfull looks when there's no bread. In a sense thats overwhelming for me, as these additional activities are mine all mine. We don't have a dryer right now, and its added quite a bit to my laundry time. We don't have a dishwasher, and this also adds to my workload. The garden I'm planning, etc etc. I feel that its a benefit to my family to conserve funds, as this means that I can stay home, and that we have some funds put aside for emergencies. Making & providing the food for my family is rewarding for me & I enjoy gardening & canning. Doing dishes is less rewarding for me but I think thats the case for most people.
Right now I have more time than money, so my choices reflect that.
There are two books you may be interested, one thats seasonal is called Unplug the Christmas Machine. The discussions of simple Christmas ideas can be extended to various discussions on keeping up with the joneses. Your money or your life is good also. I liked the tightwad gazette but she seemed a bit like doing things just to be doing them if you know what I mean. I am working towards simplicity, not doing things for the sake of it.
I am also working on not buying things because the are on sale or cheap! Right now I try not to buy things on the first go round, and by the second time I've usually found it cheaper, or found a way around needing it.
__________________ Megan Mama to Ron (8/13/04), stepmama to Emily(6/9/99) Married to DJ, my supportive hubby
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Here is how we deal with our lifestyle choice
In a way, dh and I grew up with frugal parents. Mine were frugal because they were broke and dh's were frugal because they were children at the tail end of the depression.
dh's parents are still very frugal but my parent's income has went up by $70,000 since I went to college and now they are making up for lost time with their spending habits (we just had to help carry in their $1300 TV and $600 Home Theater system last night).
I have always loved getting the best deal I can so living a frugal lifestyle was an easy transition for me. My mom taught me many tricks of the trade in her frugal days and they have stuck. I never buy anything at full price and I used to be very efficient at feeding my family around sales but know that we don't eat anything refined and buy our eggs and beef from a local organic farmer I just stock up on staples and don't need to do much shopping other then for formula (I have a medical issue that dries me up at 4-5 months) and diapers (Gavin pees through every cloth dipe I have tried over night). I figure when he is done with formula then I won't be going to town nearly as much and then our spending will go down even further.
I think the best way to curb spending and shopping is to plan your day so that you don't get bored and want to spend. Plan time to do crafts with the kids, plan time for yourself to enjoy something you like, pick up a hobby, read about other frugal people so that you know you are not alone in your quest to simplify.
Another good thing to do is look at everything you do and ask if it is a necessity to do the task or if you are just making busy work for yourself. This has saved me alot of time.
I hope that helped a little. We live pretty close so if you need a frugal buddy, let me know.
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Living frugally and living simply are not necessarily the same thing. They can, however, overlap. Right now we are trying to live both simply and frugally.
I am currently reading Tightwad Gazette and while I agree that sometimes she is doing things just for the sake of doing them, I think that is her philosophy: that you have to cultivate an attitude of frugality in all aspects of your life to be truly frugal. For someone who loves to spend like me, it can help to be totally tight and as frugal as possible, to change my mindset overall.
I think living frugally means spending as little money as possible...definitely still considering *value,* which is what throwbackmama is getting at with buying higher-quality clothes for a little more money and getting more wear out of them. Value is really where it's at with frugality. Something may appear on the surface to be cheaper, but in actuality it is costing you more money. I do not think that frugal equals cheap -- to me a cheap person does not consider value but only spending as little money as possible. The frugal person wants to get the most for their dollar when they do spend it, in terms of value, but also wants to spend as few dollars as possible.
Tightwad Gazette, which I consider the bible of frugality, also has room for prioirities -- for example, she talks about buying a large house and living frugally in other areas because they want a big farmhouse and land. So it's also about awareness of your choices -- what are we spending our money on, and is that where we want our money to go? What areas of our lives do we want to be very frugal in, and what areas do we want to spend more money for? How much enjoyment do we derive from living in a large house, or eating out once a week? Is it worth the money spent? Your Money Or Your Life takes this to another level -- figure out what life energy you spend on your job, and then calculate everything in terms of hours of life energy. Is it worth two hours of your life energy to buy that loaf of bread instead of baking it?
Living simply means treading lightly on the earth, consuming as little of the earth's resources as possible, having as few possessions as possible, and also simplifying your day to day life to have as much time as you want to do the things you want. It deals with things like, what do you want to do for your life's work? Are you doing it now? Why not...and how can you make that happen? How can you be self-sustaining: grow your family's food, hand down clothes? How can you reduce your consumption of the world's limited resources?
So I see that in some areas they overlap, in others I must decide whether simplicity or frugality will win out, or will both lose to convenience. I think making decisions in awareness of their impact either monetarily or environmentally or both is the key for me. Right now we are working toward an awareness of our spending patterns, our consumption, our impact on the environment. From that already, ideas and change are coming. But I anticipate in the coming months we will move to change that comes out of this new awareness. We've been down this path before but are really going down it much more radically than ever before.
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I feel as though I've been living a simple life for quite a while now, but I can't say that I'm completely frugal. I believe that mamabear is right that they do overlap, but can also be very seperate. For our family, the simple life has always been about leaving the smallest footprint on the earth as possible. I enjoy looking next door at the neighbors and realizing that we have half as much "stuff", and we're twice as happy.
Our lifestyle choice has always been about living intentionally, that EVERY decision we make impacts all aspects of our life on earth. There are a lot of things that I spend money on that I'm sure other people would think it insane. Everything we eat is either organic or grown by someone we know. We spend a lot of money on food, but I believe in the manner the food was grown and in the quality of the food. I do not buy name brand (Gap, Gymboree, Nike,...)anything because I do not wish to support their business practices.
{stepping off the soapbox now }
If you have a chance I really recommend the books the other mama's mentioned, just add to the list "Fast Food Nation". It's a really good book that will make you question a lot.
It really is about choices and intentions, the fact that you are questioning and examining your lifestyle puts you so far ahead of others that just buy out of habit.
I try to be frugal by not spending, and when I do spend on something that isn't a necessity, then it is a well thought out, and carefully considered purchase. An example is kids' clothes. I priced new snowsuits at the mall, and then went to the thrift shop. I waited til the very last moment and was almost ready to shell out the $$ for a new one when one in the right size and right condition finally came in to the thrift store-$5. I consider that frugal.
Frugal to me is buying store brands at the grocery store and using meal plans to keep my grocery budget at $100 a month.
Frugal is darning, patching, sewing my own, and remaking garments that are wearing out (e.i. DH's tshirts make great sleep pants for DS in about 4 minutes of sewing).
I don't consider any of it being cheap. To me being cheap is when you CAN afford something easily but you don't take it as a selfish gesture-for example, my aunt taking us to macDonald's for dinner when she leaves in a week for a month long stay in Belize-that's CHEAP! lol
I think everyone's priorities are different in life too-some may be frugal to put their financial efforts into becoming mortgage-free, while others are frugal because they are out of work or creatures of habit simply from growing up in a frugal hhold.
I have been seriously exploring anti-consumerism ways for the past 2 years and am pleased with the results on our budget and our way of life so far. To me my frugality is very much rooted in our quality of life and the impact we make on the earth. I rest easy at night with the choices I make in our spending too.
some thoughts on this from the simplifying and thrift forum
taking a toll...
Do you ever fear you are doing so much that if you tried to do much else you would pop? That is the way I feel now... I am sewing for extra cash, and doing well at that... and I am at home with my two kids, and I have no car, I live in Washington so it is raining constantly right now. I have been living very simply for the past two years and never really faltering, but since my car died I have been finding myself doing things that I have not thought of doing for years... little things like buying ready to bake cookies, just so me and the kids have something to do. I know that it goes against many things I stand for, but I have to draw the line somewhere.
Where do you draw the line between a simple thrifty life, and placating simply because its the most sanity saving choice at the moment? Am I normal?
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Valerie Rose; Loving wife and partner to Don. Whole food cooking, extended-breastfeeding, cloth diapering, attachment parenting, selected vax, artistic, and lovely granola lovin' mama to Alex (7/20/96) and Cyan (7/13/01).
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12-23-2002 03:42 PM
MamaJosie
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Registered: Mar 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 866
I so know what you mean and I think....
your point gets back to some issues we have discussed in the past like what is more frugal, simple or natural and how sometimes these things dont overlap. An example for me was giving up cloth recently with my toddler. It has truly SIMPLIFIED my life and also is more FRUGAL for us if you can believe it. We live in the arid west and have very hard water and expensive water. I had to wash the dipes 4 and 5 times and they still had horrid stains and our water bill was well over 100.00 somtimes 150.00. I quit cloth and our bill is now 50.00 or 60.00. I have more time to play with my kids, my son is more comfy and can wear any clothes I get at thrift stores and such and I have cloth diapered 3 kids for over 6 years total so I do think I made a difference for the environment but he may be in sposies for a year and that is a choice I made for our family to simplify. I know it is not the most NATURAL choice but right now it is the choice we are making. Although I am trying to be more frugal and natural it doesnt always work out. LIke this year for teacher gifts I was going to bake a bunch of homemade goodies but didnt get to it and so I bought each child a set of cool cookie cutters for their teacher. It was worth my sanity not to have to do all that baking. The baking would have been better but it just didnt work out so I am not going to kick myself over it. Anyway, I think you are doing great mama. But you can freeze cookie dough yuourself so sometime when you feel up to it you could whip up 3 or 4 batches of dough and freeze them in a big gallon size ziploc and then you would be ready to go. I have started buying my cheese in bulk and grating like 8 pounds of it in individual 8 oz bags and freezing them so I can whip them out any time I need it. For me this has simplified cooking alot AND saved me money!
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12-23-2002 04:19 PM
MamaJosie
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Registered: Mar 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 866
I have been thinking more about this....
and one thing I think is important is how you define SIMPLE. In my example above I said using sposies SIMPLIFIED my life and it has made things less stressful and in a way EASIER for me. But I think I really think of SIMPLE LIVING as more plain and natural living so in that sense the sposies are not more SIMPLE. I would think many here consider SIMPLE to mean more PLAIN (in an Amish sort of way), like getting back to the SIMPLE LIFE - as in basic, foundational, wholesome things or something. So to many my example of SIMPLFYING may not be more SIMPLE to them since it is adding waste to the environment etc. Another example would be using all convience foods like frozen dinners and pizza etc and not cooking much. It may make ones life EASIER in a way but it would not be more SIMPLE to me. Scratch cooking takes longer but the cost of convenience foods, waste from all that packaging and the fact that my kids and dh and I would probably get sicker or have other health issues from eating junk (ie my dh has had probs with high blood pressure in the past and lots of convenience foods are so full of sodium) all the time. So in the long run it wouldnt even be simplifying or more SIMPLE either one. But for the short tearm it might be easier. Did that make any sense?
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12-23-2002 05:33 PM
BlueRoseMama
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Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Olympia, WA, USA
Posts: 85
I understood what you meant. There are many differnt ways that people portry a "simple" life. I am very old fassioned about it. Hehe... My husband's main arguement is that I am always living as if we are in a depression. I said "We are going into a depression, and you will be very happy your wife can cook, and sew, salvage and save when that hits!" He did not argue. We and I got in a fight over weather or not to move the compleatly full compost bin or just keep it where it was and throw the stuff in the garbage over the winter... he won. But this spring I will have him move it and he has come to terms with that. We very rarly fight, but most of the time it is over money and pracitical stuff if we do, or not do. I want a full pantry with the $100 bonus he got today... he wants a slip of RAM...
There are some days where I have to give in. I have to see his side, and buy pizza instead of making it, and get him a shirt at Old Navy instead of Goodwill... but he does the same, we always look at Goodwill first... I feel lucky to have a husband that is willing to change so much as it is. He was very "modernized", and "comercialized" and now he is living in a household with cloth diapered children, extended breastfeeding and no cable... it has to be an adjustment on all sides.
The idea of making cookies ahead of time is a great one! I have wanted a large freezer for months... and we have just not found one. As soon as we do, things like that will be so easy! Thanks for the great idea!
article in THE TIGHTWAD GAZETTE discussing the difference in wealth and affluence in the context of frugality. Most truly wealthy people (with alot of accumulated wealth) are frugal. They save their money. Affluent people often are way over extended, keeping up with the Joneses and seem "rich" but may be as I said way overextended and in debt. She discusses how they saved to buy their big farmhouse and land and their kids wore thrift store and yardsale clothes, they had used everything and were very frugal to afford the house. She notes a trend that people in much less desirable homes driving expensive vehicles and their kids having new clothes and lots of "toys" like 4 wheelers etc and her elementary age kids surmised that people who lived in small houses wore new clothes and people in big houses wore used ones. Pretty interesting. So I do think "wealth" can mean many things. But I think of financial wealth as having little or no debt and a good nest egg in savings but probably being more frugal that someone who throws money around and looks "rich".
My take on frugality
but I think thats the case for most people.
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