danielle, thank you, that was a very thought provoking post. and thanks to whomever started this thread it has really given me pause. I am sitting here wondering how to compromise, I prefer natural toys when possible, but Robyn (almost 6) loves tiny things, polly pocket type things, small small accessories, not neccessarily small -bendy type-dolls. I guess I will try balance for now. or maybe she just needs more bendy tyoe dolls? hmmmmm
anni
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mom of Raynbow, Robyn, River and Brook,
Did someone already send this to Margaret to be saved?
Thanks!
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Shannon
Mama to my two favorite little guys.
"Carefully watch your THOUGHTS, for they become your WORDS. Manage and watch your WORDS, for they will become your ACTIONS. Consider and
judge your ACTIONS, for they have become your HABITS. Acknowledge and watch your HABITS, for they shall become your VALUES. Understand and
embrace your VALUES, for they become YOUR DESTINY."
—Mahatma Gandhi
A book I would suggest reading is Work and Play in Early Childhood, by Freya Jaffke. Each time I read it I get more out of it. Maybe for yourself, Homemaking as a Social Art- Creating a Home for Body, Soul and Spirit by Veronika van Duin. How you take care of yourself and your home is very important in creating a "waldorf" home. Child live in imitation, strive to be worthy of imitation, as I am sure you are. But really what does that mean?
If I just have moments each day that I can say yes, I am worthy, I feel I am doing my job right.
Spend as much time as you can being totally present in the moment with your children.
(gosh, don't mean to get all preachy)
trisha
This thread is really turning into a great resource for parents who are Waldorf homeschooling or trying to incorporate more "Waldorf ways" into their homes!
I've been reading this book- I can't find it right now to get the exact title and author but I'll look later and post it. It's about Waldorf philosophy as it relates to parenting children 0-7yrs. It talks about the high importance of rhythm and ritual in the home and the place of the mother and father. There is such an importance placed on children being able to play freely and creativley and also on the parents being role models- so it is good to have the children playing while the parents go about doing "adult work" . I think, truely, that a Waldorfy home is based more on ideas and practice than what it looks like, although there are very valid points for the natural environment and toys! I don't know if I'm typing this out very mindfully right now, I certainly don't want to sound like a know-it-all on Anthroposophy because I'm just getting started on learning about it and my gosh it's a very vast subject, lol. I think to try to think of all the things you could or should do is fruitless. I personally try to really work on the rhythm and natural balance of the day. I follow a pretty loose parenting style, what I mean is that I don't have my kids on very tight schedules and I'm pretty spontaneous naturally, BUT my kids both thrive on rhythm to the day- even if it is loose. I think someone else might have said it already or I read it in my book but the rhthym really could be as simple as Monday is baking day, Tueday is Nature Walk day, Wednesday is Natural Crafts day, ect. and added with a morning circle and lots of singing throughout the day. Children remember the days by what they do and they look forward to them and come to trust in their schedule and it can be very beneficial for them in their physical, spiritual,and intellectual growth.
Edited because I wanted to add some songs we sing at school and at home!
At snack and lunch, we sing or recite one of these:
The earth has felt the sunshine, the flowers open forth and I sing to you a song of joy for all that lives upon the earth. The birds, the beasts, the flowers, and I sing to you a song of gratitude for all that lives upon the earth.
Or
Thank you for all my hands can hold,
Apples red and melons gold,
Yellow corn both good and sweet,
Peas and beans so good to eat.
And this is one of my favorite songs that honors all four seasons. It's from Sing a Song of Seasons by Mary Thienes-Schunemann ( A Naturally You can Sing production).
This is my trunk, I'm all tall, tall tree. In the spring-time the blossoms bloom on me, they o-pen, they o----pen.
This is my trunk, I'm all tall, tall tree. In the summer the breezes blow through me. I b-end. I b---end.
This is my trunk, I'm a tall, tall tree. In the autumn the apples fall from me. They d-rop. They d---rop.
This is my trunk, I'm a tall, tall tree. In the winter the snowflakes fall on me. They f-all. They f--all.
And also from the same book, a song that I wish would happen around here soon, lol.
Winter goodbye,----winter goodbye, --- You may no longer---stay, Springtime is on it's---way, Winter goodbye,---winter goodbye.
You can change the words for all of the incoming seasons, also.
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~Amoreena~ artist momma to baby Saige and 2nd grader Akaya!
SageMoonPottery coming soon!
Last edited by Akayasmama : 01-04-2004 at 01:37 AM.
Oh Amorenna, please post the name of that book when you get a chance. It sounds wondeful!
I pm'd Margaret and asked her to save this thread to the FAQ's.
I really want to start incorporating these things into our lives. I'm in school so my ds goes to a Montessori school (no Waldorf around here) so unfortunately we have to have a schedule.
I agree so strongly that being a Waldorf parent is more about the parent's approach towards life and their understanding of their children than what the house looks. I have some friends who have perfect looking "waldorf-y" houses. But their lives are so frantic and they are so distracted that their is no warmth or soul in their houses. Over the years I have come to beleive that one of the most important contributions that the mother can make to the family is being the "spriritual housekeeper" of the home.
My eldest's kindergarten teacher gave me this verse by Steiner when Zach was in her class years ago. It has been an invaluable resource to me - I use it in my daily meditation to help me stay focused as a parent. (It is actually taped to the refrigerator!) I have since found out that it is traditional for Waldorf kindergarten teachers say this verse before the kids arrive at school. Anyway, I hope some of you find this verse as useful as I have. It has gotten me through many trying times!
Quiet I hear within me.
I hear within myself
Forces to make me strong.
Now will I be imbued
With their glowing warmth.
Now will I fill myself
With my own will's resolve.
And I will feel the quiet
Pouring though all my being.
When by my steadfast striving
I become strong
To find within myself
The source of strength,
The strength of inner quiet.
R. Steiner
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Kathy
Mama to Zachariah (12) & Isaiah (4)
thank you for sharing that verse...it's beautiful.
maintaining a rhythm all day long (I'm good til about 2-3:00) is something I really struggle with. I often feel pulled to my own projects and I find it hard to stop and transition myself back into their world. Looks like I've got myself a new year's resolution.
Originally posted by Dannielle thank you for sharing that verse...it's beautiful.
maintaining a rhythm all day long (I'm good til about 2-3:00) is something I really struggle with. I often feel pulled to my own projects and I find it hard to stop and transition myself back into their world. Looks like I've got myself a new year's resolution.
I so empathize. There are some days when I totally "lose it" due to other things that are affecting my mood or pre-occupying my thoughts (usually things that I want to do or adult worries...) When I get to that place I find it so hard to re-focus myself. I am trying to be more aware of the signs that I am getting to that place so I can avoid getting there at all, but there are those days......(especially with a choleric three year old!)
I realized that I do have a rhythm and a morning "circle time" but not literally.
I've always sung special wake up songs unique to each of our children. (that I make up for each of them personally) and we awaken to greet the day the same way.
What I need more suggestions for is actual more along the lines of a spiritual morning routine. If any Wiccan or pagan mothers are reading this who do have some simple morning chants or rituals, will you please PM me? There is just not much info or support out there for those parents of these religions.
I'd love to especially have one to greet Father Sun daily and one to say goodnight to Mother Moon each evening which would serve as A.M. and P.M "prayers".
I'm always looking for new places to talk about the Waldorf style of doing things and to get new ideas. Here are 2 places I get alot of ideas -- both are Yahoo groups that I joined on a no-mail basis (I just go browse the archives for stuff like "bean bags" or "lazure" or whatever):
groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorfhomeschoolers/ this is the group associated with Kytka's waldorf homeschoolers website.
groups.yahoo.com/group/WE_HS/ this is associated with the Waldorf Resource folks.
I suspect you could find some poems and rituals in these archives, Michelle, as the groups do include families of various faiths.
There's also an e-group from St. John's that I don't belong to...you can find a link to it at www.openwaldorf.com It sounds like it would be an amazing resource, but I don't have time to read everything!
I found the book I'm reading. Dh "stole" it and left it where he was reading it last! It's called Rudolph Steiner Education - The Waldorf School, written by L. Francis Edmunds. It doesn't have verses in it, but it's an interesting and quick read. Does anyone else here feel that some of the Waldorf books out there sort of go against attachment parenting in a way? In one of my books, it suggests letting a baby cry if the baby has been fed, has a clean diaper, ect. In another one there is a suggestion to have the baby spend a lot of quiet time alone in his or her crib or bassinet. I sort of take what I need from Steiner's lectures and books and toss the stuff I disagree with, but it does seem like in some ways I'm doing the exact opposite of what he suggests for babies.
Amoreena~
"Does anyone else here feel that some of the Waldorf books out there sort of go against attachment parenting in a way? In one of my books, it suggests letting a baby cry if the baby has been fed, has a clean diaper, ect. In another one there is a suggestion to have the baby spend a lot of quiet time alone in his or her crib or bassinet. I sort of take what I need from Steiner's lectures and books and toss the stuff I disagree with, but it does seem like in some ways I'm doing the exact opposite of what he suggests for babies."
Maybe you could use Steiner's approach to caring for babies as a springboard for thinking about the importance of AP.
I remember reading in another book about the concept that children, even young babies, need to be left alone once in a while to develop a sense of individual competence and communion with the world. Maybe this idea grew out of what Steiner was suggesting. It made me think about this and I really decided that most of the time, especially when my baby was very young, she needed me with her more than she needed her own space. The important thing was to think about it and decide what was right for my baby and me.
Steiner had some really good, sound, proven ideas about how people grow and develop physically, emotionally, and spiritually. But perhaps he wasn't right 100% of the time. I think even very commited and knowledgable Steiner followers don't follow all his recommendations all the time.
Danielle~
"thank you for sharing that verse...it's beautiful.
maintaining a rhythm all day long (I'm good til about 2-3:00) is something I really struggle with. I often feel pulled to my own projects and I find it hard to stop and transition myself back into their world. Looks like I've got myself a new year's resolution. "
Mimmy~
"I so empathize. There are some days when I totally "lose it" due to other things that are affecting my mood or pre-occupying my thoughts (usually things that I want to do or adult worries...) When I get to that place I find it so hard to re-focus myself. I am trying to be more aware of the signs that I am getting to that place so I can avoid getting there at all, but there are those days......(especially with a choleric three year old!)"
Maybe I'm really off base in the way I do things, but I try to achieve a balance
every day between spending focussed time with Lucy and time to do things I need and want to do. I think I could certainly be more centered and calm a lot of the time (nap times and bed time when I want her to go to sleep so I can get something done, I lose my patience). That's something I need to work on, and I love that verse....
Am I wrong to feel like Lucy can and should learn to fit into the rhythm of the household, even when it's not revolving around her? ie I need to stop reading to her so I can go and cook dinner; we need to stop playing so she can take a bath and get ready for bed, etc. Maybe a lot depends on how many children you have and their ages. Maybe you're talking more about actual homeschooling scenarios where you are, in effect, the teacher, and therefore need to be devoted to that task. If not, maybe it would help to give yourself some space to think about and do your own things at certain times during the day (as part of the rhythm of the day) so you don't feel stressed when your mind starts to wander.
Oh yes, I agree, I don't think he was right 100% of the time and I don't think all of what he wrote applies to life today. I guess I'm just trying to come to terms with some of the things that I see that I feel are a little more mainstream (although, I'm not sure if that is the right word exactly) than my personal parenting style. Then, teaching a Parent & Infant class in a Waldorf school when I don't necessarily agree with some of the literature . Like the other thing was that he initially suggested only breastfeeding until 4 months, then 9 months at a later date and now it's pretty open but many of the books suggest weaning at around age 1. Although, many, many of the parents at the school nurse much longer 2 or 3 yrs. The literature about nursing is changing a lot recently to encourage and support mothers to nurse longer....I just had a discussion with a friend who I see as being the most Anthrosophosically (not sure if that is actually a word, but I'll use it) knowledgeable person I know and she said that some babies weren't born to be leaders and those babies tend to nurse longer (according to Steiner). Which I disagree with, I guess. Some babies need more earlier in life and some later as older children, I think.
Sorry, I don't want to turn this into a deep discussion on Steiner philosophy and parenting...I just think about this, more now that I have been really reading a lot of Waldorf books as I try to decide if I am going to go through formal Waldorf teacher training.
Jeanne, I think that part of the rhythm of the day includes "adult work". Steiner felt that it was important for children to see the adults in their lives as role models for imitation and that it is highly beneficial for children to see parents fullfilling adult work, which could be knitting, or cooking, or cleaning. Can you bring Lucy into the kitchen with you while you make dinner and let her play on the floor? Or read half of the book before making dinner, and the other half after dinner?
Last edited by Akayasmama : 01-05-2004 at 03:01 AM.
As far as anti-AP parenting practices, as far as I understand it so far, I think that Steiner's point was that kids need to shed many "inherited forces" and develop as their own person and much of the spiritual and physical prepatory work for this transition is done in the first 7 yrs. So, many people interpreted that to mean to have the child start seperating from the mother asap. I've talked to several Anthro nurses and doctors about this, and although some still stick to the traditional wean early and no family bed opinions, most I talk to these days say to keep this concern (about inherited forces) in mind, but to do what you think is right for you and your child.
And as Jeanne said:
"Am I wrong to feel like Lucy can and should learn to fit into the rhythm of the household, even when it's not revolving around her? ie I need to stop reading to her so I can go and cook dinner; we need to stop playing so she can take a bath and get ready for bed, etc. Maybe a lot depends on how many children you have and their ages. Maybe you're talking more about actual homeschooling scenarios where you are, in effect, the teacher, and therefore need to be devoted to that task. If not, maybe it would help to give yourself some space to think about and do your own things at certain times during the day (as part of the rhythm of the day) so you don't feel stressed when your mind starts to wander. "
I totally agree with you - my point was that on some trying days I just cannot get focused on the child - even when it is their time. My kids know when it is time for chores, errands, mommy-time, etc. That's one of the best things about having a rhythm - we can get things that have to be (or should be) completed done with a minimum of stress. They need to see us working on household chores and things for ourselves.
And as far as "what Steiner said" - I think that it is important to remember that a big part of Anthroposophy is developing ourselves spiritually and intellectually - we all are evolving. Steiner was a wise man, and he said alot of insightful things (as well as some not so insightful things) but I don't think he ever intented for people to just take his word on things, but to meditate and study and take what you feel is true in your heart and mind. kwim?
BTW, I love this thread also. In the past I have been hesitant to discuss Waldorf at Amity's as most of the threads ended up taking an anti-Waldorf tone. I am glad to see that this one hasn't.
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