This is really bothering me, thought I'd get it off my chest.
I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular. Frankly, I see it all the time. Heck, I've probably been the culprit a time or 2. Anyway, here goes...
When you sign up for a swap, please understand that this is a commitment to the others you are swapping with. Dropping swaps makes for lots of work for the organizer, and it makes it difficult to know how many items to make for other participants. Aside from that, it's a little rude. I know things come up and poo happens and I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about dropping swaps because you're too busy, or signed up for too many, or decided you didn't have anything to make, or didn't want to have all sorts of that kind of thing, or whatever. We're ALL busy, yk? We all have snotty kids and less time on our hands than we'd hoped and the car breaks down and the guy at the post office is rude and, and, and... .
Can we have some sort of guideline for dropping swaps? I just had 2 people drop the ONE swap I'm hosting with less than 2 weeks to go before the ship date. That's "last minute" in my book. On top of that neither one actually pm'd me or contacted me personally. I had to find out via pm's from other swappers wondering if we're still swapping since people have dropped. I see posts all the time dropping and signing up and dropping and signing up and on and on so I know it isn't just me that's having to scramble last minute to keep a swap alive. There might have been people who wanted to swap back in the beginning but didn't because we were full. Now it's too late to be added and get anything done, the people who were in it from the beginning have already made what is now too many items and are paying to have their own items mailed around the country (a waste of money) and those who stuck it out are now without certain items which were promised.
This is just my own personal experience. Again, I have nothing against anyone particular, I'm just frustrated. This is the kind of thing that makes me not participate in swaps.
To make a long ramble short:
PLEASE don't sign up for a swap unless you are committed to it. Dropping a swap is a big deal. It should be taken seriously as you have made a contract with the other swappers and the organizer. The closer it gets to the "ship date", the more seriously you should consider your decision whether or not to drop as it makes a bigger mess. Dropping a swap is similar to backing out on a transaction. If you are dropping near the ship date, it is like backing out on a transaction after the other party has mailed their items. A little consideration would go a long way in preventing hurt feelings and frustration. Please be kind and considerate, that's really all.
There, I said it. Now that I've ruffled a ton of feathers, and donned my flame proof suit, let me apologize and say that I really don't dislike anyone here. I just see this as a constant issue on this board. I've been here forever, and it's frustrating and intimidating to me. I can't imagine what new members would feel like wanting to participate but not being able to make sense of it all.
Location: The mountains, the plains, wherever my road my lead me...
Posts: 8,334
I understand your point Gwen, but I also kinda disagree to an extent. I think that everyone here takes their swap sign ups as a serious commitment, but we also realize that when stuff happens, it's more fair to let your spot go than to send in something that might not be up to par. I know that everyone can get caught up in swap frenzy, but I think that everyone also tries to be mindful of giving up their spot with plenty of time to have it filled, but stuff happens and that can't always be the case. But I think you might be surprised at how many people are willing to jump into those open spots at the last minute. I know that I've taken a few and been really happy to get them. I think we're still going through growing pains but we're doing a pretty dandy job.
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lorraine, mama to my sweet baby boy
I understand your point Gwen, but I also kinda disagree to an extent. I think that everyone here takes their swap sign ups as a serious commitment, but we also realize that when stuff happens, it's more fair to let your spot go than to send in something that might not be up to par. I know that everyone can get caught up in swap frenzy, but I think that everyone also tries to be mindful of giving up their spot with plenty of time to have it filled, but stuff happens and that can't always be the case. But I think you might be surprised at how many people are willing to jump into those open spots at the last minute. I know that I've taken a few and been really happy to get them. I think we're still going through growing pains but we're doing a pretty dandy job.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Dropping swaps seems very non-chalant lately. I don't see any commitment because there is an attitude of "no big deal, someone will take my spot". It's not always the case, and it's not fair to assume that someone else will jump in. What if nobody does?
I think you should have to fill your spot with somebody else before you drop, personally, especially close to the ship date. That would be courteous. Instead of "I'm dropping" how about "I need to drop but need to fill the slot, anyone interested?". If nobody is then you should contact the swap organizer and make sure dropping isn't going to be a huge deal. Sometimes you're right, it's not a big deal. Courtesy would be to communicate with the organizer and try to fill your spot.
Location: The mountains, the plains, wherever my road my lead me...
Posts: 8,334
Well, I can certainly only speak for myself, but when I had to drop a bunch of swaps, it was anything but "non-chalant." I agonized over what I really thought I was going to be able to do and which I really wanted to keep. I spoke with many other swappers before I pared down my list. When I see people drop, I make no assumptions as to what they've done to come to their decisions, I just give them the same courtesy that I would like to be given in that they know what the proper decision is to make for themselves.
I think there is a great difference between dropping a swap with weeks to go, and dropping one at the last minute. But then sometimes you don't know you have to drop until the last minute. I would be lying if I said I didn't think some drops were due to laziness or poor planning, but the truth is, I haven't walked a mile in your shoes and I don't know the circumstances you face (nor should I, really). It's not my place to judge.
Yes, it would be nice for people to have common courtesy and recognize when/if they are going to drop a swap early enough to try to fill a slot. I don't think it is realistic to say "no drops permitted," or even have a limit, since we *do* sign up for swaps so very early in relation to when they are due. I've signed up for things due already in November. I *assume* I will be able to follow through on my committment, but I am not *certain* it will happen. I think of along the same lines of making a date with someone 5 months in advance, knowing my kid is coming with me. That kid factor really does throw you for a loop sometimes. Maybe DH loses his job after I sign up and I can't pay for supplies or need to focus attention elsewhere. Maybe I get pg and really sick and can't craft. Things *do* happen.
I take my swap committments very seriously. I haven't (yet) dropped a swap. But I do like knowing that if I need to, the option is there. I will try to drop with as much notice as possible. It is irritating to bust your rear making 10 little somethings and sending them in, only to have 5 of them returned b/c the swap shrank. On the other hand, maybe I can trade those with another mama when she is in the same boat for a swap I didn't do. So I try not to sweat it too much.
I think it could be beneficial to list some courtesy options in the guidelines for what to do if you need to drop (heck, maybe they are already there - I haven't read them lately), but beyond that I think any kind of tracking would be a burden that I personally am not willing to undertake (hehe - my rule of thumb when making rules - if I'm not interested in enforcing and tracking, I sure am not going to ask someone else to do it lmao!)
Oh! Another thing - I *do* agree with you that it would be a good idea to ask people who are dropping to PM the swap organizer. I imagine it is difficult keeping track of it all, and posting in a new thread that you are dropping all swaps requires organizers to go through ALL their swaps and see if you are there. At a minimum, post on your individual swap thread that you are dropping. Hostesses may or may not want you to take it a step further and actually PM them (gads - am I contradicting myself? loL!)
Anyway - definitely post in thread or PM hostess if you are dropping. Don't create a new thread to say "I'm dropping them all." That would be difficult for me to track if I were hosting a swap.
PLEASE ONLY READ IF YOU CAN HANDLE A LITTLE FRIENDLY RANT!!
Let me preface this with saying I have raging PMS, and I am one of the droppers from Gwen's swap (big second drop for me EVER):
I came to this board to relax, meet some other like-minded mamas, and share my crafting with women who appreciate it.
I don't want to deal with this sh*it right now!
I have overmade some swaps by 50% -- you think that isn't annoying? I haven't sent an email lambasting the droppers!
I have also spent hours on a swap, only to get back some little crappy thing that took about 3 seconds to throw in a bag. Did I b*itch and complain? No!
Suck it up, mamas! Life happens, and these are freakin' *craft swaps* for God's sake! Let's worry about important things in life, shall we?
Making friends, I'm sure <grin>. I will now go back to completing all my swaps a month ahead of time....
Lori
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Lori
Carson City, NV
WAHM to 2 beautiful daughters, Madeleine (9/99) and Tara (5/02)
Last edited by Lori_Eustis : 06-01-2006 at 12:27 PM.
Well, darn......I had a huge response typed out and got booted! I will try to retype it coherently! ugh......
I will respond, as a 'swap dropper'. I have dropped recently almost all my summer swaps (4 I think). I did give at least a month notice on them. I pm'd several mamas to see if they would like my spots, ones who had shown interest after the swap was closed or newbies who I thought might like a chance at a 'earlier' ending swap (I know I was bummed that all my ship dates were so far away at first). I followed up with the organizers (I THINK in all of them) and made sure the updates were made.
I had to drop my swaps because I was overcomitted. When I first joined in, there was a big swap frenzy and I got caught up in it. I didn't pay attention to swap deadlines and got overwhelmed. I am guilty of that and I *think* that is probably what alot of us who joined in then are going through. Hopefully, those of us who are 'droppers', have now realized what are capabilites are and will use the knowledge we have now gained to sign up more cautiously. I have place a self limit to 3 swaps a month and may even decrease that. In my personal situation, I make bendies most of the time. They are, at least I hope, very detailed and I spend alot of time making sure they are going to be well received. I just didn't expect to be so overwhelmed. Also, alot of the swaps I joined had a 7 people limit and then expanded from there. I joined when there were 7 and some of them ended up with more than 10! That is alot of bendies to make. SO, I went through and dropped rather than trying to rush or make more 'rushed and non-detailed' bendies, yk?
Being an 'offender', it sucks, because I actually totally agree with you. I am hoping that this rash of dropping will slow tremendously with those of us who joined in during the frenzy are now realizing that we were hasty with our comittments. Now I may be talking out of my @ss.......because I may be the only one who feels this way.......but I hope not.
Maybe we can add something to the guidelines about 'swap dropping'.....like, there should be a time limit such as a month before the deadline AND (like you stated) the dropper needs to fill their spot? I dunno........it is so hard with all of us having lives that we have no control over. There are deaths, illnesses, money problems, job losses.........so many things that are unpredictable and unpreventable. In my personal situation, James (who is 2.5) actually said to me "Mommy, stop making dolls for those kids and snuggle me" That is when I knew for sure that I was overcomitted. I was feeling the pressure to meet deadlines and spent alot of time 'catching up'. For me, as for all of us, my family comes before all else........so I had to drop the summer swaps in order to refocus my priorities.
(((Hugs))) I really do understand your frustration......I was just on the receiving end of the Native American swap. I made 9 very detailed-time consuming bendies to send, I sent them ON the deadline and checked the list that day to be sure everyone was still in, and when it shipped back to me, I got 3 items back. That SUCKS. That is one of the reasons I dropped with plenty of notice........I didn't want to be one of the last minute droppers, yk?
Hopefully, it will all work out and we will all be on the same page
Anyway - definitely post in thread or PM hostess if you are dropping. Don't create a new thread to say "I'm dropping them all." That would be difficult for me to track if I were hosting a swap.
More of my cents
In my case, I created a new thread to attract possible spot fillers, mamas who originally wanted in who didn't subscribe to the original post OR newbies who want in on a swap. HOWEVER, I did also pm the organizer AND posted on the original thread......for me that is just proper. I am like starkl, in that I agonize over dropping. It is certainly not laziness (I hope anyone who has recieved my items will agree) and definately not 'non-chalant' on my part. Just ask dh.......he hates these darn swaps now that I had to drop the summer ones.......because I was really upset that it would upset others. Seems that I was correct.
Daisy - I love the way you dropped (and the reason for dropping). I didn't state it very well, but what I *meant* to say was don't ONLY post a separate thread as a way to inform everyone, including your hostess, that you are dropping. Unless, you know, something drastic has happened and you have two minutes on the computer before you aren't around again for weeks and weeks. In that case, bless your heart for posting at all, and Godspeed
Daisy - I love the way you dropped (and the reason for dropping). I didn't state it very well, but what I *meant* to say was don't ONLY post a separate thread as a way to inform everyone, including your hostess, that you are dropping. Unless, you know, something drastic has happened and you have two minutes on the computer before you aren't around again for weeks and weeks. In that case, bless your heart for posting at all, and Godspeed
Oh honey......thanks. I didn't mean to single out your post, just wanted to make clear that on my part, I had a reason for creating a new thread.......
((hugs)) James is on a playdate right now and I am trying to be sure I am completely caught up on everything 'swappy' hahahh Only one free hour to go!!! So much for the kitchen scrubbing!!! hahaha
PLEASE ONLY READ IF YOU CAN HANDLE A LITTLE FRIENDLY RANT!!
Let me preface this with saying I have raging PMS, and I am one of the droppers from Gwen's swap (big second drop for me EVER):
I came to this board to relax, meet some other like-minded mamas, and share my crafting with women who appreciate it.
I don't want to deal with this sh*it right now!
I have overmade some swaps by 50% -- you think that isn't annoying? I haven't sent an email lambasting the droppers!
I have also spent hours on a swap, only to get back some little crappy thing that took about 3 seconds to throw in a bag. Did I b*itch and complain? No!
Suck it up, mamas! Life happens, and these are freakin' *craft swaps* for God's sake! Let's worry about important things in life, shall we?
Making friends, I'm sure <grin>. I will now go back to completing all my swaps a month ahead of time....
Lori
I can't tell from this if you're angry with me, lol. I hope not. It really wasn't you. My frustration is much more broad and general than to pin it down to one person, lol. For me it's more of a trend that I have seen rather than an individual issue. Perhaps I am being too harsh and *****y. I really didn't mean to be. I'm just bummed. I am mad at myself a little. I knew hosting a swap was a huge PITA. I knew there would be glitches and droppers and changers and reorganization. I knew I didn't want to deal with it, lol. But I posted to host anyway and I'm mad at myself for putting me in the position that I now have to follow through. I don't have any money. I don't have a lot of time either. I hate the idea of wasting either on a swap that is going to be dead in the water at the last minute, or one that turns out not to be worth my time and money because I only got a few small things back. I knew that this was a possibility and I am mad at myself for falling for it. I'm upset that FOR ME this board and it's energy have changed. It's like the trading floor of the new york stock exchange now rather than the bench near the mountain lake that it used to be. It's not relaxing, it's not fun, and it's not friendly. I know that's just me. I know not everyone feels that way. I know I'm being overly sensitive. I was just looking forward to a box of stuff I wouldn't have been able to buy for my kids otherwise. I was looking forward to surprising them. It loses it's glow after all this, kwim?
I appologize for not PMing you Gwen.. and believe me, dropping swaps was something I agonized over - not a choice made lightly. BUT, right now, I'm simply not capable of investing the time and energy and didn't want to send in something that wouldn't measure up. Given the things we've been through the past few months and the things that will be occuring over the next few, it's simply something I can't handle right now.
I am hoping to use the break to get good at bendies, so that I can send them in for most swaps once I'm back in control of my life.. Right now, it's feeling like a derailed train wreck.
I'm very sorry I didn't PM you though.. honestly, it didn't even enter my head - and it should have. I'm really sorry for that.. but the decision to drop swaps was *not* an easy one for me.. it was necessary though.
lets see, I dropped swaps for various reasons... tiem commitments, DH's unemployment, too many business commitments, kids getting sick, me not feeling like the other swappers were holding up their time/$$ value end of the swap, etc... heck, I have even been really late on some, and got *itchy when others were really late it IS dissapointing when something you are really looking forward to gets all screwed up. Hell, most of the swaps I joined were supposed to ship April or Mid May (and one in Feb) were for Dan and Anna's birthdays. Most of them arrived in time and a couple I STILL haven't gotten. it irritates me...
But in the long run, to me, it's still worth it. I can be flaky at times, I know other moms can be flaky at times... sometimes due to REAL life burdens and nightmares, other times just because they plain forgot. They are just toys. All of us who buy things with the intention of making it presents for our kids can always just make our own things when the sh__ hits the fan. It isn't ideal.. but its a risk you take with the internet.... and with real life friends hasn't anyone been flaked on by their real life friends before?? or are me and my friends just particularly flaky?
__________________ ~Selena~
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I didn't state it very well, but what I *meant* to say was don't ONLY post a separate thread as a way to inform everyone, including your hostess, that you are dropping. Unless, you know, something drastic has happened and you have two minutes on the computer before you aren't around again for weeks and weeks. In that case, bless your heart for posting at all, and Godspeed 
or are me and my friends just particularly flaky?
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