amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

~Meeshi~ · 06-01-2006, 02:39 PM

I have to apologize as I did drop a swap. In all honesty, there was such a long span between joining and sending that I completely forgot. By the time someone PMed me to remind me, I didn't have the supplies on had that I needed. I am sorry if that screwed things up for any of you. In the future, I will only join swaps with shipping dates in the same month as sign ups, so I don't space it.

mom2kbeth · 06-01-2006, 03:11 PM

I have read everyone's responses and have been trying to post but I am having trouble with this site again today (figures, lol!).

Ok, so here are my thoughts, as a very frequent swap hostess, and one who hears the concerns behind the scenes, lol.

I don't think it is quite such a big deal when people drop swaps. I have absolutely no problem with people dropping when the swaps are a ways off. Things come up, we get overwhelmed, etc. It happens. It's a little trickier when people drop closer to the swap date, because that makes it harder for the swap hostess to figure everything out and ensure she is shipping the right things to the right people. BUT I would 100% rather have someone who was feeling overwhelmed drop the swap at the last minute rather than send in something that took her 2 minutes to throw in a bag just because she was afraid to drop. I think that is far more unfair to the people in the swap who have worked very hard on their swap items, kwim? To then get back something just tossed in an envelope just so the person ouldn't have to drop because she ran out of time for whatever reason. I know it's a pain in the butt to have made 9 items for a sap and then to have a bunch of people turn around and drop near the deadline, leaving you with 4 extras (and a lot of hours of work wasted). But I think of it this way - I either have extras to give to my kids, or to their friends (I tend to hang onto my extra items when I have them to use as birthday presents), or you can always offer up extra items in the crafty board for trade or for sale, for people who may not have been in that swap. So I don't think of it as wasted time, I try to make it work for me, kwim? I can't control other people dropping the swaps; I can control how I feel about it and what I do about it

Swapping an crafting here should be fun. It usually is. But I don't think that anyone should feel like they HAVE to complete a swap that they are signed up for in the event that something comes up with family life, etc. Yes, we try to post the swaps well in advance so that everyone has more than enough time to get their swap items done. But things do happen. And people will drop. I personally do not feel that someone should be forced to stay in a swap unless they can find someone to take their place. I am not going to police my swaps, forcing someone to stay in because they can't find someone to take their spot, kwim? And how would i even do that? I cannot make someone send in items, and I wouldn't even want to try. It should be fun, and it's no fun when you are feeling forced to complete something you know you either cannot do or ran out of time for.

It also doesn't bother me to have someone post a thread saying I am dropping X, y, and z swaps. If you are in one of my swaps and dropping, that's fine, as is posting to the thread. I don't need a PM. But if other hostesses do want someone to PM them directly if they are dropping a swap, then there is an easy way to fix that ... just put it in the OP of your swap thread that if you are going to need to drop, then please PM the hostess

I do agree that the energy has change on this board. But I don't think it is for the worse. I think that there are a ton of new swappers/crafters, and whenever we get a lot of new people, like we have had lately, that the energy is going to change. I think this is a positive thing. I love the energy that has been brought to the swaps from our new swappers! The frenzy when swaps get posted is a lot of fun, it's a great adrenaline rush, lol! I love to see everyone's craft and shows. I love knowing that I am making items for people who will truly appreciate them. I love knowing who and where my kids' playthings are coming from; it makes it so much more personal than giving them things bought from a store, even if they are hand crafted store bought goods, it is just not the same.

These are just my opinions on the matters in this thread. Feel free to agree or disagree

TraceyH · 06-01-2006, 03:52 PM

I appreciate everything that everyone of you have posted!! It truly is good to discuss so that changes, if needed, are made or understanding is reached.

I am not bothered about people dropping either and am glad to see the guidelines put in place so that I can understand what in the world I am supposed to do and how to do it. I too can be flaky and hate to dissapoint. That is why I have dropped some swaps. Some of the groups are so large that one less person didn't make a difference. Some ended up being so small that I felt bad. I think it was an understanding that the extras could be posted on the forum or other forums for that matter for sale or trade. I know I would love to have some of the items.

Soggy Granola · 06-01-2006, 04:27 PM

To clarify, I don't think people should be forced to participate in swaps or else. I think they should be required to communicate directly with the organizer if at all possible. It was the surprise of it all for my direct situation today. 2 days ago everything was fine with 2 good sized groups. Today there are only 5 of us, and there is still 2 weeks to go so who knows what will happen, lol.

And I've said this before. The swap frenzy is only fun if you are able to participate. If you are the organizer, or are a frequent poster and participant here who is able to be online frequently throughout the day then you're probably pleased as punch around here, lol. I am on dial up. I'm only here for a little while each day. Most of my time here is spent on board business such as sticking, unsticking, mediating, and answering questions etc... . By the time I get to the swap board everything is full from now until 2007 and the ones that have openings are due in too little time for me to be able to craft an appropriate product. I hate feeling rushed, and if you don't post immediately that you want in on a swap (or post before you have a clue what to make) then you don't get to play. Then it's frustrating to see people dropping swaps you really wanted in 3 months ago but it's too close for your comfort to grab the spot.

I dunno. I guess it's just not my cuppa tea anymore and I should leave you all alone, lol. According to this thread it's all me and everyone else is fine, so I'll leave it all up to you guys. I'm sorry I rocked the boat!

tamaralv · 06-01-2006, 04:54 PM

Gwen - I understand your frustration (I think!?) about not being able to get in on swaps unless you are *right there* when it opens. Something that has been suggested before (and has worked for me!) is to post on a thread that youa re interested in a swap and for the hostess to contact you if a slot opens up. Sometimes they will open a second group, but if they don't (as you've seen first-hand, groan) it's not unusual for at least one person to drop out, in which case, you're in!

I'm pretty new to this forum as well and was intimidated at first, but after reading posts and seeing what the general vibe of the group was, I felt comfortable enough to start posting c&s and joining swaps and asking for help, etc. I *like* to think I am a contributing member of the forum now and appreciate the fact that most of the people here (if not all?) really make an effort to be considerate of one another.

I don't know how it was *before* but I do enjoy this forum much and find it fun, relaxing and frankly a great learning opportunity for me

I think the guidelines for swaps are a great place to direct "newbies" who aren't familiar with expectations and (if read and adhered to!) can cut off problems down the road. Periodically issues do come up that are addressed (such as with this thread) and sometimes those guidelines are modified to best meet the expectations and desires of the group as a whole (or at least, of people who voiced their opinions). I don't think this forum is any more clique-ish than *any* others that you might visit. In fact, I do find it quite welcoming.

You've clearly invested a lot of time at Amity and enjoy it. I don't know what forums you frequent and I am sorry to say I don't "know" you very well from posts as I pretty much stick to this forum. I don't know if you are having a bad day and venting or if you are/were quite angry at the lot of us. I'm trying not to take the tone (as I read it) of your posts today personally, and in fact am really holding my "tongue" (so to speak) regarding things you have said. I think other mamas have responded eloquently and honestly to you and i hope that you will take that for what it is worth and stick around / come back / whatever your status may be.

Until then -

I just hope your day gets better, mama!

Cheers,

Katie · 06-01-2006, 05:16 PM

I'd like to think the sign-up frenzy has waned....but I haven't really looked to be sure. Like I said, hopefully it is and folks are being a bit more conscientous about their limits.

I like a 30-45 day turn around on swaps. Any longer than that and it falls low on the priority list until I'm under the gun. Of course, I've always been a pressure player so it goes with my territory. I'm also impulsive and like to jump into things at the last minute for immediate gratification.

Maybe we can get "last minute sign up" threads or something for short notice openings? I *can* make things in less than 2 weeks time, if I want to. I know that I did a fill in and over shot my mail date. I felt bad about that but I tried to make up for it with priority mail.

baababy · 06-02-2006, 01:50 AM

I'm not going to do a lengthy post on this, but I just wanted to say that I don't think it is anyone's business why someone drops a swap - either late or weeks in advance. I recently dropped some swaps, and I battled internally for a week before I made the decision. I tried to post a quick note in each of the individual threads, but I didn't contact all of the hostesses. I contacted Bonnie because I didn't want to discuss the reason why I was dropping with anyone else.
I can now though (in case anyone wants to know). My DH and I are both reservists, and there was (and still is) a possibility that we will both be deployed this year. That would mean we would have to leave our kids with someone else while we were gone. We were officially "alerted", so at the time, I had no idea what would be going on. We're safe for now, but it may come up again in a few months.
As for last minute dropping, I've done this (I think) and its was because the craft I was making didn't turn out like I had hoped and I didnt have time to do anything else. A couple swaps I sent in small items which as someone put, took about 3 minutes to put together, because A: I couldn't think of anything else B: What I chose to do was rather simple C: I haven't been crafting that long, so my abilities aren't the same as many on this board who have been doing this a long time. I have never until this moment felt that it mattered how much time, effort, money you put into your craft. If that is how everyone feels, I may just opt out of any future crafts. I think we're all on different skill levels, and I'm sorry if you don't like the simple "crap" I send in. Its my best efforts.
I guess I didn't do a good job of keeping this short, but I think this is a little ridiculous. I agree that common courtesy should stipulate that if you have to drop, you post as soon as you know, but I don't think there should be any rules other than ASAP. That's just not fair as there would have to be a mile long list of "exceptions" and then someone might send in "crap" just to spite you for making them stay in.
Sorry to rant..........

Mamaselena · 06-02-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baababy

I have never until this moment felt that it mattered how much time, effort, money you put into your craft. If that is how everyone feels, I may just opt out of any future crafts. I think we're all on different skill levels, and I'm sorry if you don't like the simple "crap" I send in. Its my best efforts.

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. I didn't mean to. I used the word "crap" in reference to my own efforts if I was to send in last minute things. At least that was what I was meaning.

However, I do think it matters how much time/effort/money you put into these things. That is why we set a dollar value, you know? Some people have the time to do something special, and I appreciate that SO much! Other's don't have as much time or talent (and I include myself-hell, I drew blood so deeply the times I attempted needle felting that I won't do it and drool over the things I see done with it!) so they send in something like a store bought house painted (which is what I meant by money-they didnt have the time or inclination to make individual houses, so they painted something store bought and made it their own) one time, for the farm swap, I did accessories, I didn't spend a whole lot of time crafting (unless you count the couple hours it took me to make 70 fimo eggs, I am a slow fimo-er) but I added in accessories with my $$ to even out the trade-I did butterchurns, fimo eggs in baskets, and a mini hay bale and I asked if it was equal to what we would be getting so that I knew everyone in the swap group would be happy with what I sent.

I don't think you should stop because you are new and not as "crafty" or "accomplished" as the "rest of us" but I do feel each and every one of us should put time and effort into our crafting. Why do a swap with someone who is making something wonderful (either with time or effort or $) when the (collective not individual here) "you" aren't putting your time and effort into it?

I think our only exceptions are plastic and unnatural materials... we include fimo because it is so versatile...

I am dearly sorry that both you and your husband have been put on alert. I will have your family in my thoughts.

I apologize for hurting anyone's feelings. Really, I do.

baababy · 06-02-2006, 11:04 AM

I understand that it should be kind of fair, but I really don't see anyway to do this. I was in the farm swap, and I sent in beehives. They didn't take that long to paint, but I thought they were really cute. It didn't cost me much time or effort to do them, but to me, I see that it evens itself out across the board with other swaps. The dragon swap for example, I spent a lot of $$ on the felt and batting to make dragons. It was my first time making a tiny toy, so it took me a LONG time to hand sew each one. To me, and maybe I'm wrong here, it averages out to about the same. Since a lot of us are in the same swaps together, I feel its ok. You might get something small from me this time, but next time, you might get something bigger. (another reason I felt it was best to drop swaps, so that I could concentrate on a few, rather than break the bank with a bunch.)
I don't think that anyone is intentionally hurting feelings here, but as a newer crafter, I had to express how some of the posts made me feel.
Thank you for the hugs. I'm really not looking for a lot of sympathy (which is why I didn't bring it up in the first place). Its a struggle, but it happens. It happens to all of us in some way, shape or form - that's why its called life right!?

Ok, off to go hound the company who is sending my bug boxes.

Daisy · 06-02-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamaselena

However, I do think it matters how much time/effort/money you put into these things. That is why we set a dollar value, you know? Some people have the time to do something special, and I appreciate that SO much!

I totally agree with Selena. This is a 'crafty' forum and we do have a dollar amount set for a reason. I don't think it is fair for say 7 out of 8 people in a swap to spend weeks creating and send in items that are time consuming and well-thought-out.......to in turn receive an item or two that are thrown together last minute. It is not so much the fact that "I" got something that wasn't so well thought out......for me, it is that the person who threw that one thing together got 7 REALLY nice items that they essentially didn't really 'earn'. I hope that doesn't come out crappy, which I guess it did. It is just that I have been on the recieving end of a couple of swaps that did fizzle out at the end and I spent so much time on my items only to end up with mostly my items back and some stuff that was thrown together last minute. It kinda takes the fun out of it, yk?

So, what I really think.......is that all of us should be respectful of each other and realize that the majority of us (I think) are spending lots of time and putting lots of love into our creations. The main reason that I do the swaps is that I cannot afford to buy all the cool mama made/waldorf style toys/creations out there. I drool over things that these mama's make and am overly excited to be able to do what I can do (mostly bendies right now) and get back things that I don't have the talent for.

Baababy, I just read your second response and that one comes across better. I understand what you mean. I didn't get a beehive, but for me anyway, that sounds perfectly acceptable. That, for me, doesn't sound like something 'crappy'. It was something that actually went well with the theme and was something you added your personal touch into. The only part of your post that kinda made me think "Woah.......wait a minute" was the I have never until this moment felt that it mattered how much time, effort, money you put into your craft, because to me, that is disrespectful. I don't have any care about how much MONEY is put into the crafts......but I sure do feel like there should be a good amount of effort into them. I am hoping that part of your post was just frustration and was taken in the wrong tone. I received one of your dragons and James loooves it. It was put together very well and looks as good today as the day I recieved it! So I in no way think you are one to send out 'crap'.

I think all of us are a bit raw due to Gwen's post.....which I partly agree with.......yet am guilty of violating. Gwen just said 'aloud' what alot of us have thought but didn't want to stir the pot by saying it. Boy, Gwen, do you know how to stir a pot!!!

ha ha

I think we are just going through some growing pains and it will all smooth out soon. As I said before, hopefully we have all figured out our limits and will be mindful of them in the future.

And for you Selena.........you stinker! You had to go post an AWESOME swap when I am being really strict about my swaps this summer!!! I would have loved to make a bendy family to go with that swap, but I know I don't have the time to do it. I have pirates and wenches to create.......

Apathy · 06-02-2006, 12:11 PM

This is exactly why I've never joined any sort of swap. I feel like I'd get "yelled at" if I dropped, and what if my stuff isn't up to par? What if, being new to making things, *MY* item is one of those that someone thinks is "some little crappy thing that took about 3 seconds to throw in a bag"? Ouch.
I've seen people post stuff for a swap that makes me go "holy cow! I'd LOVE to be in that swap so I could get that!" and then I look at some of the things I've made, that i work HARD on, and it's crap when you compare them.
It's like saying that a silk I dye is crappy compared to something Joy dyes. We both use quality dyes, nice silks, and it takes time to bind them to get the design... but mine don't look as nice as hers. Is it because I don't care? No, it's because I'm inexperienced and don't know some of the tricks she knows to, say, make the dye spread better or make a mandala rather than a simple swirl.

Soggy Granola · 06-02-2006, 01:04 PM

See now, I thought I was standing up for the new people and they're afraid of me too, lol. I don't by any means think that people need to tell swap hosts their life stories. I think dropping a swap should include a courtesy pm to the hostess. Is that such a big deal? I don't think so. AND, if possible an attempt to alert the board to the opening and fill the empty spot. It doesn't seem so complicated to me. It seems courteous and kind to me. Sheesh. That's all I was saying, that everyone should be conscious of what they are signing up for and make the commitment. I knew this was going to be a problem when the idea came up to sign a specific group of people up for every swap with the understanding that they could "drop them if they decided not to do them". I expressed my concern then and was ignored. Imagine my surprise when it's coming out exactly like I said it would then, lol. It wasn't and isn't a good idea for lots of reasons. It excludes new people, it closes swaps to people who actually do want to participate indefinately, and it creates much more chaos than is necessary. It's not any one person or anyone on that list that is bad or wrong. The idea wasn't very good, lol.

Ugh, just never mind, lol. Sorry to stir the pot. I'll really just bow out as soon as the 2 swaps I'm in are done and then leave everyone here alone. I'm resigning as a mod in here as well since I just don't have the time to keep up any more and I don't fit in here anyway. Or rather, this board is no longer meeting my crafty needs, lol. I don't want to ruin all your fun. Don't take this as a woe-is-me post. It reads a little like that. Really I'm just sad that this board has changed so drastically. I liked it before. I know progress is inevitable, it just doesn't fulfill me anymore. It's time for me to go.

tamaralv · 06-02-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soggy Granola

That's all I was saying, that everyone should be conscious of what they are signing up for and make the commitment. I knew this was going to be a problem when the idea came up to sign a specific group of people up for every swap with the understanding that they could "drop them if they decided not to do them". I expressed my concern then and was ignored. Imagine my surprise when it's coming out exactly like I said it would then, lol. It wasn't and isn't a good idea for lots of reasons. It excludes new people, it closes swaps to people who actually do want to participate indefinately, and it creates much more chaos than is necessary. It's not any one person or anyone on that list that is bad or wrong. The idea wasn't very good, lol.

Sorry, I'm having a difficult time following your line of thought. Are you now talking about the concept of "automatic sign-ups" for people who want them? No one is doing that anymore, so it isn't an issue. If that is what's bugging you, no worries!

I really like the swaps right now, and appreciate the effort people make to ensure they are successful and fun

Sure, there's room to change (and it *will* happen) but that's life

huntersmama · 06-02-2006, 02:38 PM

Okay i promised myself i was staying away from this thread but i JUST HAVE TO SAY THIS!

when i get an item in a swap......THE ONLY THING I CARE ABOUT, is that you put thought into it, you took time, and tried yoru best.

I did dino mats for a swap, my first attempts, I worked liek heck on them

now do they compare to sage dream designs??? not in a million years

why? because they are my first attempts, and i dontl knwo all the tricks either.

the swaps are a GREAT way to try new things, new techniques and experiment. I woudl rather get your first needlefelted bug that you worked hard on, and are really proud of then anythign else

all we can do its our best, why on earth woudl we dare ask more of one another?.....
so please dont; not join a swap becuase you may not needlefelt as good as me(

yeah liek i am the queen of needlefeltign

), or dye as well as joy or do bendies as good as daisy.....try yoru best, if you love it we will

it

baababy · 06-02-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisy

we do have a dollar amount set for a reason.

Baababy, I just read your second response and that one comes across better. I understand what you mean. I didn't get a beehive, but for me anyway, that sounds perfectly acceptable. That, for me, doesn't sound like something 'crappy'. It was something that actually went well with the theme and was something you added your personal touch into. The only part of your post that kinda made me think "Woah.......wait a minute" was the I have never until this moment felt that it mattered how much time, effort, money you put into your craft, because to me, that is disrespectful. I don't have any care about how much MONEY is put into the crafts......but I sure do feel like there should be a good amount of effort into them. I am hoping that part of your post was just frustration and was taken in the wrong tone. I received one of your dragons and James loooves it. It was put together very well and looks as good today as the day I recieved it! So I in no way think you are one to send out 'crap'.

Thanks! In clarification for myself and a couple others, when I first joined, there was no dollar amount. That came later with the rules. I'm fine with that, but before then, I didn't know. I know I wasn't being singled out, but being that I felt a little sheepish for some of the things I sent in (because I didn't feel they were as good as some of you that have been doing this much longer), I took some of this personal. This is my own issue, so sorry for that. Who knew there could be so much drama in crafts!

I should probably clarify too that I don't mean to say that it doesn't matter about the time, money and effort, but it seems that the tone of some of the posts has centered around this exclusively. All of our time and money is very valueable, and I think that its great when mommas can put in tons of effort on a swap. But, I've always lived by the rule "its the thought that counts". I guess that would fall into the "effort" category and maybe even a little bit of the time. I'm definately not trying to say that any of these aren't important (sorry if it came across that way, I don't mean to be disrespectful at all) but I just think this is supposed to be fun, and if I'm always thinking about that magic money number or how many hours of crafting I contributed, it no longer becomes fun for me. I'd much rather decide to make something cute, that I love, regardless of how much it costs or the time it takes me to make. Sometimes it might cost a lot, sometimes it might cost a little. And like I said before, eventually, I think it all evens itself out.
Can we just get back to crafting already??