amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

Mamaselena · 05-13-2005, 09:58 AM

Theresa has some very good points. Also, with the dairy problems, I had that with Daniel, you probably already know this but just in case, make sure you aren't eating anything with lactose, lactase, casein, sodium caseinate and whey-these are all milk derivatives.

good luck with your decision!

Vanity Fair · 05-13-2005, 09:58 AM

Your local LLL Leader will have a handout called "Persistent Diarrhea". Give her a call and ask her for it. If she doesn't have it, lmk, I'll mail you one today.

Vanity Fair · 05-13-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamaselena

Theresa has some very good points. Also, with the dairy problems, I had that with Daniel, you probably already know this but just in case, make sure you aren't eating anything with lactose, lactase, casein, sodium caseinate and whey-these are all milk derivatives.

good luck with your decision!

Right...usually a "dairy allergy" is not as cut & dried as eliminating milk. It's not the milk itself, but the cow proteins that is the allergy. That is in countless other things, many of which we had no idea were actually dairy derivatives.

Mamaselena · 05-13-2005, 10:09 AM

[quote=Vanity Fair]Right...usually a "dairy allergy" is not as cut & dried as eliminating milk. It's not the milk itself, but the cow proteins that is the allergy. That is in countless other things, many of which we had no idea were actually dairy derivatives.QUOTE]
exactly-with Daniel it was the protein... anything resembling dairy just set him off.. it was horrible. He never bled like any of the other above mentioned children but he threw up every time he nursed, the reflux meds they gave him he couldn't tolerate-threw them right up. The ONLY thing that helped was eliminating dairy ENTIRELY... NO milk, no bread with casein or whey, no soy cheese with why or proteins, nothing. For the firest 3 weeks of his life (on soy formula and breast-they kept him in the hospital for 3 days and he was nipple confused) he didn't sleep for more than 15 minutes at a time... it was awful. After I got the milk out of my system, he started sleeping 1-3 hour stretches.

it was hard to be a mom then, lol... thankfully he was my first baby.. if I had had Anna first (NO issues whatsoever... nursing fine, slept through the night the night she came home, etc) I think I might have gone off the deep end

sigh... I hope the new baby isn't allergic...

oh, and Daniel grew out of it

YAE! It's a common allergy in our family. My paternal grandfather was allergic to milk his entire life. Me and my brothers grew out of it around 2 or 3 and I had a bout when I was 9 where I couldnt drink milk again... not sure why, but I grew out of that, too. After eliminating milk from my diet for over a year with Daniel, I am still a lotmore sensitive to it than I used to be... but evidently that is a common thing... milk allergy returning later in life... sigh... oh well, so I only get ice cream once a week now and regret it

worse things could happen, eh?

Soggy Granola · 05-13-2005, 10:26 AM

RebeckaK was on a strict elimination diet with her Esther. You may pm her and see exactly what it was she could eat. I know it was a very limited selection, but it helped with the problems she was having with Esther.

Have you consulted LLL? I thought green mucousy stools was a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance. I could be wrong, it's been awhile since I've heard that spoken about. We have a great lactation consultant here that I trust. I'll give her a call and see what she says. Perhaps she'll know of something nobody has mentioned yet.

Have you considered taking the baby to a chiropractor. It would stand to reason that if there were tummy problems that things might be out of whack, even if the initial cause of the problem has been eliminated. Especially with dairy allergies, there can be lasting effects on the body that linger even after the dairy is gone.

When you say you've cut dairy, I'm assuming you mean even hidden dairy? I had to cut dairy with Winnie and was shocked how much stuff has casein, lactose, and a number of other ingredients that I didn't know to look for. If you haven't done this, it can make a real difference to a seriously sensitive baby.

(((hugs))) and good luck finding a solution. I don't think any mama would fault you for going to formula if that's what you think is best. I would feel so bad for you though because Nutramigen is SO expensive, lol. Also, it's just got so little substance to it that I'd be worried that the baby will be unhappy after a little while. It just goes right through them, I would think that a bigger baby would eat so much of it, but I don't have any experience.

Stargazer441 · 05-13-2005, 10:28 AM

I had to do the same thing with AJ that littleturtle did. I went on an elimination diet basically eating rice, toast, etc and then SLOWLY adding in foods one at a time. He ended up being sensitive to dairy (I knew that though before I started the diet - I had already cut diary), soy, citrus of ANY sort (it turned his bottom BRIGHT RED with a horrible rash reaction), wheat, and I forget what else. He's grown out of some of it now.

I can't at all even begin to say what you should do... ((((hugs)))) But *IF* you decide to continue nursing, I'd really recommend an elimination diet. Maybe just try it for a month?

Radha · 05-13-2005, 11:15 AM

As much as I might like to breastfeed, I would put the inherent comfort of my child, and peace of mind for myself and family first. I would also continue to pump and do an elimination diet that way, so the baby isn't continutally subjected to the offending substance (whatever it may be) while you try and figure out what's making her so ill. When you do figure it out, you can still BF!

Korwynne · 05-13-2005, 12:29 PM

I'd do the elimination diet and see if I could figure it out. My breastfeeding relationship with my babies is so important to me that I'd do whatever I could to make it work.

My other concern would be hidden ingredients in the formula that might cause the same problems...

MotherMoon · 05-13-2005, 12:37 PM

I suggest an elimination diet. We finally figured out Samantha's was wheat. It took a long time to figure out that because the darn chicken I was eating had broth injected. Broth made with wheat. She is also intolerant of dairy. Even if you switch to formula, you will have to figure it out at some time and many intolerances do not show on any testing. Ask me how I know.

Korwynne · 05-13-2005, 12:41 PM

yeah, we were told after that test that Lindsey has "no allergy or sensitivity to dairy". Yeah, right.

cariadanam · 05-13-2005, 12:52 PM

I didn't read the other responses so this may be redundant but I would do an elimination diet, and read the book Is This Your Child by Doris Rapp (excellent book) My kids both had terrible food allergies and the only way we figured out *all* of the causes was by cutting everything out and adding food back in. If you just cut out one thing at a time you can't truly tell if it is a problem or not since they could still be ingesting other foods that make them react. Or they can be allergic to it but mildly so it doesn't really seem to make a difference but it really does.

With my son I eventually gave in - I was down to five foods that he could tolerate and I was loosing excessive amounts of weight (which isn't good for bm either) - he is 4 now and does significantly better with foods but still requires goats milk. My daughter wasn't quite as severe but we did cut out alot of foods and continued to breastfeed, which is the best choice in my opinion. She is 2 and still bf but is also on goats milk for cereal and things with milk, she also has a lot of fruit sensitivities and gets eczema at the drop of a hat.

It is good to know what foods are issues because sometimes they show up down the road behaviorally or developmentally, not just physically.

Good luck, food allergies have been my nemesis and I so feel for anyone trying to breastfeed and deal with it.
Julie

my2girlz · 05-13-2005, 01:59 PM

I just wanted to add that instead of doing RAST we did muscle testing to find out what dh and Alex were intolerant to. We did this along with chiropractic. If it's just an sensitivity or intolerance than I don't think the RAST would pick it up.

salt&light · 05-13-2005, 02:00 PM

I'm working through a very similar situation right now. We are doing breastfeeding & supplementing (long story involving switching peds.) We have soo much problems with formula! Even the hypo-allergenic formulas mess my ds up. He isn't a spitter-upper at all, but nutramigen makes him vomit. Right now he is tolerating Alimentum, but it doesn't fill him up for long - like 1 hour max, that & I'm not sure if he isn't reacting to it too. I really look forward to ditching the bottle permenantly. We have gone a couple days without, but not on a regular basis.

IMO breastfeeding is still the best. He will still have the problems & maybe more if you switch to formula. It seems like formula has only complicated our situation & exaserbated poor ds's little system.

HTH

BlsdMama · 05-13-2005, 06:25 PM

Thanks Mamas. Actually I was very aware of hidden dairy. Christian was diagnosed celiac (misdiagnosed) when he was little, so we got a massive crash course on dairy / wheat allergies when he had to be put on a strict no dairy / no gluten diet.

That said, I do think it's worth trying a complete elimination diet.

Spoke with the pediatrician today. She too advocated breastfeeding. She's sending us to an allergist for both of them but said in the meantime to keep breastfeeding. He's very obviously gaining weight.

He looks good and feels good. He's just not poopin' so good.

So... thank you so much. BTW, it is definitely not a foremilk / hindmilk imbalance nor is it overactive milk letdown/ejection. We checked into these extensively with Rebecca and I would have recognized them.

So, we'll see an allergist next week. She is advocating a scratch test instead of RAST since the scratch test is slightly more sensitive. I *will* get Is This Your Child? from the library. I've had it recommended so many times.

Thanks Mamas. I generally only visit and do not "hang out" here anymore. Not nearly as much as I did 4-5 years ago. However, I know that when I need something like this, this is where to ask.

sarah10998 · 05-15-2005, 12:20 AM

Just something to keep in mind, nutramigen (sp) is not as nutritious as regular formula, let alone breast milk. I am an RN in a NICU and we had a baby with horrible gastric bleeding and reflux so they put him on nutramigen but then told us that we had to watch really closely for his growth because of the poor nutrition of this formula. I hope this helps, Sarah