amitymamaThe Attachment Parenting Community

TinyBabyBean · 06-22-2004, 08:24 AM

Before I start this I must make it clear that I am totally for breastfeeding.

*Edited to add: This dentist is out there telling all these other parents this I am sure. He is pretty much telling them, myself included, that formula is better for teeth. This place was packed! We waited over 2 hours to be seen and a few people said the wait is always like that. Someone needs to stop him!* *Oh! Plus while I am back there one assistant tells a little boy to stop it when he starts to cry. She said it in a very rude way. Mean way. Repeats it a few more times. Says in a snippy way that it doesn't hurt and continues drilling away.* *And a poor me- why do I find all the bad dentists??? Even at my first dentist visit when I was 10 months old he punched me in the stomach!!!!*

I was totally infuriated yesterday at my 20 month old's dentist appointment. That I drove to Lakeland for mind you- 1 1/2 hours away from where we live!

The dentist doesn't say hello to Sarah or me. Just says- lay her down here and hold her arms like this. (I told Sarah we were going to brush her teeth and at home we do this while she lays on her changing table so she did not struggle or cry) He looks in her mouth and starts telling the assistant what work needs to be done. Then asks me if she was nursed- I say yes and he says this is from nursing. (her decay) I ask if the chances for 'bottle rot' are greater with bottle feeding and he says no. He told me the sugars in breastmilk are much higher and harsher on the teeth than Similac, and any other formula. I ask if it could have been caused because her teeth are genetically prone to decay. (my first dentist appointment as a baby was at 10 months for decay) He says no, this is from breastmilk.

They try to set an appointment and I am still seeing what my options are since they do accept medicaid and will use sedation on her. Then I find out that he won't even do composite fillings anyhow!!! All that time- all that way to drive- him giving me doubts about breastfeeding and nothing to show for it. I tell them - no amalgam (the mercury, i mean "silver" fillings) and she tells me in a round about way that it is all the work or nothing. He won't see her if another dentist will be doing work on her is what she tells me. Bull!!!

So, I cry on the way home. Not the whole 1 1/2 hours but you get the idea. Then I start thinking- could he be right? Here is a brief history of my dd's teeth:

1st DD breastfed till 4 months- bottle fed even at night every night until almost 4 years old (even at night) ONLY 1 small CAVITY AT 4 years old!

2nd DD breastfed till 6 months- (this was two months after her teeth had come in) - then bottle fed until 19 months even at night- we weaned her when we saw her 4 front teeth had a deep line of decay that was already brown. We hadn't even noticed. Her teeth started breaking off and her whole mouth of teeth except for a few teeth eventually rotted completely away.

3rd DD breastfed till 3 1/2 years old at night until 2 yrs old- Same sever rot- Teeth did not actually break off until a few months after DD 2 though.

4th DD still breastfed at 20 months- nightweaned at 15 months- same decay but we are fighting this time. I really didn't know how to before.

So, with my first DD- She had just got her teeth when she was weaned. Now, I am so curious- Why were these other three daughters so prone to this. Can people's teeth be genetically weaker so they get this easier? Or honestly does breastmilk make the risk greater?

Another thing to mention is I had this severe decay as a baby and my sisters did not. We were all breastfed to 2 years old or more. Genetics?

Gloriel · 06-22-2004, 08:30 AM

I think everyone's teeth are different and some are more prone to decay than others. I was breastfed for 10 months and never had a cavity. My 2 sisters and brother were all breastfed and one sister has never had a cavity, my brother has had a couple, and one sister had severe decay.

Dh never had a single drop of breastmilk and he has had all kinds of dental problems and major decay.

My three children are cavity free and they were breastfed 13 months, 3+ years, and 2 years and counting.

I think your dentist is full of crap

~MamaCharly~ · 06-22-2004, 08:33 AM

Genetics AND a bad dentist. HUGS.

I have NEVER heard it said that Bf causes rot, more likely prevents it. If you can, contact a local LLL leader and I'm sure they can give you lots of info on the subject.

I'm sorry you and your baby have to go through this.

milk42 · 06-22-2004, 08:45 AM

I know how ya feel mama! I'm sure someone will link to the LLL pages on dental health, so I'll just give my 2 cents.

When dd1 went to the dentist the first time, she needed one tooth crowned and 3 small cavities filled. I was horrified. Felt like such a 'rotten' mom. The dentist attacked me for breastfeeding, said it was all my fault, and blah blah blah. This was a ped dentist, supposed to be the best in the area. I stood up to him and told him I didn't believe the way he did about things, and we kept seeing him. However, on the way home, I cried, beat myself up, and thouht of weaning her. She was 13 months maybe a little older. Here is what I decided (before I read all the REAL info) so what. Because I am breastfeeding her, the permanent teeht will be stronger and straighter, her IQ higher, her chances of cancers lower, her chances of diabetes lower, her risk for obesity lower, her chance for heart diease lower, breastmilk is responsible for all of these great things, so what if it is a little hard on her temprorary teeth. It is exactly what she needs, no matter what it does to them. It was quite a moment, and it helped me through the drive home, and the search for the answers.

Your dentist was wrong. I don't mind going to a dentist I disagree with, as long as they treat my child they way *I* see fit. YKWIM? He used the material I wanted him to, and it was done on my terms, so I was fine with it.

DD2 needed some work done, and the dentist wouldn't do it with anything other than the mercuray laced stuff, and we walked out of the clinic, and haven't been back since. He also wanted to strap her down to a board and finish the work in 3-4 visits!! Ug, NO way!! We found a dentist that listened to me, and agreed to go along with me, and it was in his opinion, the way to go!

Good luck, Mama. Follow your heart on this one, it will lead you in the right direction!

Amy

mamababa · 06-22-2004, 08:48 AM

OMG!! Bad dentist! My oldest son nursed until he was 2 1/2 and hasn't had one cavity or any decay whatsoever. He goes to the dentist every six months and brushes twice a day.

I think some people are genetically predisposed to having weak teeth. I have a girlfriend whose 6 year old son had all kinds of cavities and decay and they take very good care of his teeth.

~MamaCharly~ · 06-22-2004, 08:54 AM

http://www.lalecheleague.org/cgi-bin...=dental+health
Here's a link

ladymadelon · 06-22-2004, 09:05 AM

Your dentist is un-educated, to say the least.

My dd#1 (nursed for 14 months) went for her first dental visit at 3 yo when we noticed decay on a front tooth. Found many (I can't remember, but at least 10) cavities. She continues to have at least one cavity at each visit, despite floride treatments and sealants on her molars.

My dd#2 (nursed for 16 months) just had her first visit at 3 yo last week, and not ONE cavity.

The only difference is genetics. Both girls had the same dental care at home.

My sister's oldest son had to have about 4 or 5 of his baby teeth removed due to decay, but her next two children, no decay or very little.

Again, same dental care at home for all the children.

My dentist, who is the sweetest woman on earth, explained that it is genes: some people get the "strong" teeth genes that resist decay and some of us (like me!) don't.

Is there another dentist you can see? a ped dentist isn't the only option. My girls see a "family pratice" dentist. And BTW, I know how hard it is to find one to take med coupons, but it will be worth the time and effort. These early dentist experiences can really set the tone for how your child views the dentist and dental hygiene for years down the road.

AAHmom · 06-22-2004, 09:56 AM

I have no reserached it but I have been told by my Ped that Babies who have heavy doses for antibotics in the first few weeks tend to have more teeth problems. I have three kids. My first was bottle fed until just past a year no cavities. My second was breastfed until 27 months old prefect teeth. My 3rd was an NICU baby on heavy amounts of Antibotics for his first 10 days of life. His first tooth came in with a cavity and he is already having cavity issues. His teeth are brushed 2-3 times a day just like his siblings.

MoonDancer · 06-22-2004, 10:28 AM

BAD DENTIST!!!

I ~Just~ read a Mothering article on this....

It has nothing to do with nursing if it did it wouldn't make sense....it would be "evolutionary suicide" as the article put it. Breastmilk is noncariogenic. Its all about the person's type of flora.

I HIGHLY recommend this article, Im sure you can read it on the Mothering website.

Tara

Mysticmama · 06-22-2004, 10:38 AM

All 3 of my kids have had problems with their teeth. As far as I know my 15 month old dd doesn't have any cavities but the enamel started chipping off when her teeth were less than two months old. After having 3 kids w/ problems the dentist finally admitted that in certain cases it's hereditary, but before that all the different dentists I went to said no way I was giving them junk or it was because I breastfed them. The one dentist said that she never nursed her babies at night (I don't know if this meant she bottle fed them or if they just starved) and she didn't think I should either. I've read about the bacteria that certain people have that makes their teeth weaker. I believe that is the problem w/ my kid's teeth. I had really bad baby teeth but only had one cavity when I was 12 years old in my adult teeth. I just hope that my kids do end up w/ good teeth. The oldest two have had extensive dental work. The younger ds had to have out patient surgery since he was so young. I know kids that eat lots of candy and drink kool-aid and pop and don't have cavities so I don't think it is so much about what they are consuming. Do you drink a lot of coffee/caffeine? My grandma was wondering if it was due to me drinking a lot of coffee, but I do quit while pregnant. I have been trying to give them natural calcium suppliments and a homeopathic rememdy to my dd. Actually, it hasn't been very regular at all so I really should do it to see if there is an improvement.

PoetMom · 06-22-2004, 10:51 AM

Genetics.

Max breastfed to almost three. He nursed mostly at night those last two years. Did a LOT of falling asleep with milk in his mouth, that kind of thing.

Didn't get his first cavity until he was fourish and eating more junk food.

BunnyMcFluff · 06-22-2004, 11:04 AM

Yep, bad, bad dentist. And teeth that are more prone to decay.

His position that breastmilk is more cariogenic than formula is completely irrational. Let's think this through--if breastmilk alone caused tooth decay our species wouldn't have survived. Our young would have lost all their teeth in early childhood and would have only been able to consume a soft diet until their adult teeth came in. Soft foods would not be easy to come by, living on the plains of Africa, yk? Those children would have starved, and eventually there wouldn't have been enough people to propagate the species.

For hundreds of thousands of years, homo sapiens have been exclusively breastfeeding our young. Even at night (in our caves, where we co-slept, lol). If breastmilk alone is so damaging, how is it that there are virtually *no* recorded instances of severe tooth decay found in the remains of the people from way back then? Like seriously, there have only been a scant handful.

So what's changed between now and then? Our teeth? No. Our milk? No. Our diets have changed, and I think that's the problem. I think some children's teeth are very, very susceptible to decay when exposed to even a small amount of sugar.

My first child's teeth are perfect. My second child, whose teeth have been cared for in the exact same way, has tooth decay. She's just more susceptible.

Janice · 06-22-2004, 11:30 AM

I agree with the genetics aspect.

My understanding is that when a child breastfeeds, the nipple is at the back of their mouth so that not as much of the milk spends time in the mouth (less so than formula feeding). There is a dr/dentist's website on this whole issue somewhere...

Here are some others though:
http://breastfeed.com/resources/articles/sweettooth.htm

http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBSepOct02p164.html

However, some bf kids have tooth decay and some ff kids do as well. I think that if you have a child that is prone to decay you may want to spend a few minutes each day with them on your lap while you carefully brush their teeth with a very soft toothbrush.

flamboozle · 07-20-2004, 09:08 PM

Maybe nutrition plays a role as well. From what I understand children's teeth are formed in utero and depending upon the mother's diet as well as genetics it can affect their teeth tremendously. Dr. Weston Price (a dentist) travelled the world studying the influence of diet over dental issues. (This was in the 30's). He published a book about his travels and findings.

I used to find a new cavity every time I went to the dentist (twice a year). I was always so careful about brushing, flossing etc. nothing seemed to help. Within the last 4 years my diet has changed tremendously for the better and have only had one cavity which was due to an old filling leaking.

That dentist sounds like a real nut, hope you are able to find someone better.

Sacha · 09-12-2005, 05:14 PM

My LLL leader's hubby was a dentist, he said... It isn't the breastmilk. Breastmilk by itself is fairly harmless, it is after your baby is eating solids. The breastmilk interacts with whatever food is on the teeth and causes decay.

However, bad teeth ARE hereditary. That dentist is a quack. My 6 year old has bottle mouth, no never a bottle.... She night nursed until three. But, she had no flouride as DH is opposed to it. The older children had flouride pills and had much better teeth. My little guy is 4 now, and just got his first cavity, breastfed until 19 months. My dad had REALLY awful teeth, I didn't get a cavity until I was 8 or 10. It is an individual thing.