Hypothetical scenerio:
6yr old and 4yr old playing in room. Mom hears screams of protest, then crying. 4yr old comes out of the room saying "6yr old__________" (fill in the blank w/just about anything...took my car, drew on my page, sat on my bed....)
6yr old then comes out and says "I did NOT!"

Who gets the time out?

#2:
6yr old comes out crying, saying 4yr old threw something at him. 4yr old comes out and says, "It was an accident"

Who gets the time out?

Now, keep in mind here, that 6yr old and 4yr old are wise to the ways of time outs (although I don't enforce them nearly enough, because I dont know who is telling the truth, and I didnt see said crime actually happen!) Therefore being wise to the time outs, and how to get out of them by confusing mama with non-truths, they lie.

Who gets the time out? Both of them for not telling me the true story? Do I need to hover over them 24/7 so I know who should receive the time out?

And the competition between the two of them is driving me absolutely nuts. And I cant send them to their rooms, because they share a room.LOL. And I cant keep one of them out by me, and one in their room, because then it doesnt seem fair to the other one that I am letting brother stay by mama.

(sigh):(

These boys are making me lose my marbles.

not that i need to give out parenting advice....

but i think maybe try something other than time outs. seems that they are trying to avoid punishment so they are lying. if you don't know which one is telling the truth i don't see how you could time out either one YK?

if they can't play together w/o conflict then they need to separate.

gotta go so i can't type more. i'll think about this today and wait to see other responses.

I would try just taking away the offending toy until they can play nicely with it. It makes it more appropriate to the "crime." And I agree that separating them would be good, too, if they are having a day where they can't get along without conflict.

Hmm..
If it were my children, I would put them in different areas, not exactly a time out, but more a time away.
I would talk to them about not lying, hitting, whatever the problem was related to.
I would tell them when they can get along and share, they may play together again.
Unless someone is getting really nasty, I usually let them decide when they have been away from each other enough.

Hope

In my house, the toy itself would go in time out, and the children redirected to seperate activities until they had both cooled off.

I can always lean on the six year old and get the truth out of her. She doesn't have a good poker face.

I have only 1 kid (until mid April anyway) and he's too young for time outs, but reading your post all I could think was "I'd take it myself." :)

or check out these links.

http://mnmn.essortment.com/childrenlyingh_rfeb.htm

http://www.positivediscipline.com/articles/lying.html

A few words about the effectiveness of Time Outs.
http://www.naturalchild.com/guest/peter_haiman.html

Have you read "Siblings Without Rivalry"? Good luck mama!

I'm going to move this to the guidance forum with a redirect! :)

I think I need to clarify.
I rarely use time outs. I only use them when hitting or purpousely hurting has occured. So, time outs are a rarity. Otherwise I use the "how would it make YOU feel if somebody took a toy from you? Dont you think you should treat other people they way you want to be treated?" and so on and so forth.
BUT, the older they get, the less effective this seems to be.LOL
So, this morning, when Ethan whipped a piece of train track at Sean (they dont throw things at each other very often, this happens maybe..once a month?...guess I should count my blessings.lol) I put him in time out for three minutes, then made him apologize.
I do normally seperate them when they fight, but, we only have a 5 room house, 2 of which are connected(family room, kitchen) so if I seperate them, one has to be out by me, then the other feels rejected.
suggestions?
Beuller?
Beuller?
lol, i really am crackin' up, aren't i??
wheres that beach glass mama? good heavens...you have THREE boys fighting, (and one watching,lol) what do YOU do??

Originally posted by Summer
I have only 1 kid (until mid April anyway) and he's too young for time outs, but reading your post all I could think was "I'd take it myself." :)



ROFL! Now THAT"S the best idea I have heard yet!!

I try to let them work it out within reason, based on what they know (i.e. hitting is wrong, we take turns, sharing makes mommy happy lol) and I may point out that there's a great car/book/playsilk just sitting on the shelf that would work really well with the play going on, so that the kids will think it through and remember that they have to cooperate so that everyone has fun.

If things get out of hand (hitting), I use a 2 strike rule. The first time they are separated. The second time the offender will lose a favorite thing for 24 hours, whether it be soap crayons in the tub that night, a special treat like fruit leather or the toy that no one can agree on. I don't waffle either-when it's gone it's gone, and If they persist in not getting along, I offer very very early bedtimes (think 4 pm) and my stern face is pretty scary. So far they like cooperating better than the alternative, but my kids are alos bad liars so I know who's doing what.

So it's working for today....tomorrow I may be asking for help-it's evolving, isn't it??

Well, now why did I think Jennifer, Karatemama, had changed her name to beach glass?
Im so out of the loop.
Did you wonder why the heck I said you had three boys and one watching??LOL

i think jennifer is lifesabeach now so you were almost right LOL!

good advice you've gotten. what you've been doing sounds good too m - and i lilke the "i'd take it myself" too LOL! only wish i could. i've tried to give myself a time out but emme follows me screaming and crying :rolleyes: i guess i shouldn't roll my eyes - it makes her feel abandoned and i can understand that.

off to change a poopy diaper :D

Originally posted by MyThreeSuns
Well, now why did I think Jennifer, Karatemama, had changed her name to beach glass?
Im so out of the loop.
Did you wonder why the heck I said you had three boys and one watching??LOL

lol I didn't even see that-it took me about 25 minutes to write my post and I finally hit send when DD smacked DS in the ear with an umbrella :(

but having 4 boys would explain why the house is such a mess right now....where are all those boys hiding? LOL

It's tough when I didn't see the crime and they each have thier own version of what happened:confused: But typically the toy in question dissapears for a while and I strongly suggest they play separatley. SOmtimes they find thier own thing to do and sometimes they insist in still playing together and do great (I figure then they have me for the enemy instead of each other for a while anyway;) )

Different things depending on the situation

#1 both kids get time out where I can see them both and I talk to them about appropriate behaviour.

#2 Toy goes in time out

#3 I inform them that since they can't play nicely, playtime is over it's now time to clean up. Then I have them both start cleaning up their room and the living room. You can add any other jobs you have that you want done. My mom used this with us all the way through high school. This was also the consequence of whining "I'm bored". The response would be "o.k., go clean the bathroom/wash the dishes/vacuum the rug/rake the lawn etc".

I don't send them to their room - that's not a good consequence since all their toys are in there. We live in a basement suite and all three of my kids share a room and it's right off our living room/kitchen area. It's tough on them to be confined in such a small area all the time. I think that's part of the problem. I can't let them in our bedroom or office w/o me or dh because they just get into too much stuff.

I also try to follow up any consequence with a structured activity. (craft, stories, walk outside, cooking project) My kids are cleaning up right now and then we'll read some stories. I find they do better when we alternate structured and unstructured time compared to when I just leave them to their own devices for most of the day.

Oh my sister and I used to get separated by a tape line down the middle of the floor. I have not tried this with my kids, but it might work for designating separate play spaces within the same room.

I've taken a completly different approach lately, and it seems to be working. When they come at me with the "she did. . . she did. . . " I answer (calmly) "hmmmm, it seems like you two have a problem. I guess you'll have to work on that". I found that when I tried to get involved in the solution, they felt I was judging which was in the right.

There have only been one or two instances where one child has taken advantage and continued to attack at that point. . . usually, they switch back to using words to try and work it out. Sometimes, they agree that they have a problem, and seperate for a while, sometimes one of them will come to me in tears, but at least they are owning their roles in the situation, and learning to work things out without 3rd party involvement.

Of course, this is pretty new, so the effectiveness will probably wear off. . .

Originally posted by CherylE


#3 I inform them that since they can't play nicely, playtime is over it's now time to clean up. Then I have them both start cleaning up their room and the living room. You can add any other jobs you have that you want done. My mom used this with us all the way through high school. This was also the consequence of whining "I'm bored". The response would be "o.k., go clean the bathroom/wash the dishes/vacuum the rug/rake the lawn etc".


ROFLMAO! Did you have my mother? :D I can speak from personal experience that this is VERY effective.

Originally posted by pmjmomma
I've taken a completly different approach lately, and it seems to be working. When they come at me with the "she did. . . she did. . . " I answer (calmly) "hmmmm, it seems like you two have a problem. I guess you'll have to work on that". I found that when I tried to get involved in the solution, they felt I was judging which was in the right.

There have only been one or two instances where one child has taken advantage and continued to attack at that point. . . usually, they switch back to using words to try and work it out. Sometimes, they agree that they have a problem, and seperate for a while, sometimes one of them will come to me in tears, but at least they are owning their roles in the situation, and learning to work things out without 3rd party involvement.

Of course, this is pretty new, so the effectiveness will probably wear off. . .

:thumbsup: I like that !