We went to our first 4H fair yesterday so the girls could get a feel for what happens. It was cute, nothing too busy and people were pretty nice. I'm not sure it's a world I want to enter though as I was made fun of to my face about the price we paid for our goats (another post entirely) and I heard a few comments of "Of course she won, she always wins!" during both the goat and catlle showing. Kind of made me sick.

But, do the perks outweigh the negatives? Maya can join now and pick out her animals but she won't be official until she is 7 and can then show. I am thinking of it as a learning experience and meeting others.

On a funny side note, Lily says she wants a duck for her animal - an Indian Runner duck :lol:

No, but truthfully, I don't really 'get' how 4-H works. I think it seems fun and a neat way for the kids to connect...but I don't get how the groups get together.

DH and I just talked and we have decided it isn't for us. We will allow the girls to get a project animal and study ourselves. If they ever decide they would like to show then we can discuss it again. I hate to get a goat pregnant just so we can show it. And Maya would be crushed if we sold the babies.

We are, Sage just did her first fair yesterday. Honestly, we only do it because the leader is a great friend and she is a person who I want to mentor Sage. Next year will be fun though, she'll learn how to show her chickens and rabbit if she'd like. She's mostly in it for the crafting right now :)

~jo

My eldest has done 4-H JML since she was 9 (currently 13). This year she decided not to do it because she wanted to focus on her horse and riding skills. Our JML group on the Kenai Peninsula is incredible. But from what I understand, how they work varies widely. Here's how it works here.

Each animal has a "must be purchased by date". My daughter has always done swine. It must be born after the 1st of the year and be in her possession by May 1st. The child must be the primary caretaker of the animal. They must keep records on every thing. They record any money spent (food, vet), any vet visits, any time they work with their animal, on and on. In order to show or sell their animal at the fair they must:

1) Keep a record book that is checked prior to the fair. In order to show or sell, their record book must be in order and they must have written out "Six things I have learned." Each year of age the six things learned is expected to grow in complexity. Always it must be specific. "I learned pigs need water" wouldn't fly, but "I learned that pigs need clean water daily and will drink as much as X amount per day" would work for a nine year old.

2) Attend 4 workshops (these vary from how to take care of an animal, how to show, breeding, proper nutrition, artificial insemination, etc, and they can attend for other animals not just the breed they are raising)

3) They must do 8 business contacts. It was originally 10. The kids are assigned businesses that they must go in and do a presentation to. It involves telling them what 4-H JML is, the different animals raised, how the animals are fed, how the fair and auction work, and end with inviting them to attend the auction or to fill out an absentee auction form if they would like to purchase an animal but cannot attend. Not only does this give the kids WONDERFUL experience in public speaking but the underlying thought is, if you are going to raise something to sell, you also need to learn how to sell it.

5) Must attend two fair work days. The kids might sand and paint fences, pens, picnic tables, or pull weeds, or plant flowers. Whatever needs to be done. These are typically 6 - 8 hour days with a break for lunch.

6) Must have the animal at two weigh-in days. The first is very early, usually the first week of May, the second is the day before the fair when the animal is checked by a vet and weighed. The child must then calculate the daily weight gain of their animal. At the first weigh-in the animal is tagged in its ear. The child must do this (with adult help for the younger ones.)

7) Must have done community service in their community prior to the fair in order to be able to show or auction off an animal.

8) Must show the animal in order to auction it. (This is actually two showings. The first is conformation - where the animal is judged, the second is showmanship where the child is judged on how well they have worked with their animal.)

9) Thank you notes must be written by Sunday afternoon of the fair or the child does not get the money from the sale of the animal. (Typically there are 10 or more notes to write as many business add-on to each animal sold.)

10) Must make a poster that is mounted above their animal during the fair. It has required information. Child's name and # of years in JML, Animal breed, breeder's name, age, birthday, weight, daily weight gain that they calculated, picture(s) of the animal in their care.

11) Must be present the entire fair to care for their animal, do barn duty, and help with odd JML chores. Families typically camp out.

12) Must work the 4-H barbecue on Saturday which is a thank you lunch for the buyers who attended the auction.

13) Later, a week or so after the fair, they must attend the meat cutting workshop and then stay to help cut up the meat that has been donated to local non-profits. Again, if you are going to raise it, you must see the process all the way through. Kids who raise small animals (chickens, turkeys, rabbits) process them themselves, but large animals are taken to a facility where it is done. The meat cutting ensures the kids raising large animals are involved in what it means to raise meat all the way through. They really make sure the kids don't just raise an animal and sell it for money. There's a big commitment to learning and doing a great job.

14) Record books are turned in after the fair and must show how much was spent on the animal, what they earned from the sale of the animal, what was their profit or loss, how much time they spent on their project (something they've been keeping track of all along), what the cost per pound was to raise the animal.

15) I almost forgot. At the end of the fair the kids must be present and help with the loading of the large animals into the trailers that take them to slaughter. This is a heart wrenching time with a lot of tears. Parent volunteers drive the animals to slaughter overnight to arrive and be the first in line so our animals have the least amount of stress we can possible provide. Children who wish to go and help with this do.

And that's just what I remember off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm missing things. That's why my daughter decided to take a break this year so she could focus on her horse. Getting in all those workshops and business contacts and work days is a big time commitment and involves a lot of driving because of where we live.

Having said that, some people meet the requirements but not the heart behind it. In other words, they drop off kids at the fair workday and don't stay themselves. We've experienced a lot of kids who goof-off more than they work. With community service and business contacts, those can be done well, or done poorly. It's a great opportunity for working with kids and showing them the value in doing good work and following through on commitments.

If your local 4-H JML works anything like ours does, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. The kids grow so much in so many ways.

As for the comment on winning - every year our judges are different, though they don't have to be. They are usually from out of state. They don't know the kids. We have a very knowledgeable judge in our area, but since his child is in 4-H he can not judge for us. (Its' in our JML by-laws.) The judges do the best they can with what they see right there at the fair. I know one year a young man won who was a total goof-off at workshops and work days and who I suspected didn't spend much time with his animal at all. But on that one day when he was judged, every thing went in his favor. It was a pig. You never know with pigs. They could have been worked with every day and then be wild the day they are shown because there are other pigs around, new smells, it's hotter, etc. And sometimes, pigs that wouldn't cooperate the entire time are mellow at the fair. Tis not "fair", but then, that's a good learning experience too. Sometimes we don't get rewarded equal to our effort, and sometimes we don't get acknowledgment outside of our own internal knowledge of the job we've done.

I am so sorry you were treated rudely (price of goats). There is never an excuse for that. In my little town I love every family that is in 4-H, they are exceptional and we're very blessed in that. I have at fair time had to stand up to others though, when it comes to my kids, and I've heard that some families have left 4-H because of other people that were involved in it.

Rhea

I guess it kind of seals it for us that the people will eat their animals. No way will DH got for that lesson :lol:

Perhaps in the long run it may turn out okay. I'm going to keep working on him letting me get chickens for food.

I was just covering JML. There's a lot more to 4-H than that. My kids have done cooking, crafting, leather working, shooting sports, knitting, gardening and horse all through 4-H. There's also fiber animals that are judged based on their fiber and have nothing to do with auction and eating.

Rhea

Okay - I didn't know what JML meant.

We are and have been since my twins were 5. I am now a leader of our group. Our fair is this weekend and my children had alot of projects for judging in the fair. They love 4-H and I do as well.

I guess it kind of seals it for us that the people will eat their animals. No way will DH got for that lesson :lol:

Perhaps in the long run it may turn out okay. I'm going to keep working on him letting me get chickens for food.
I don't think you'll regret it if you do get chickens. Honestly, I'm thrilled I got myself and my kids in to it. We don't do 4-h, but do other poultry shows. (And those would GASP! at the thought of eating their birds! hehe)