Editted: moved from ITM. And, frankly, I have no need to further discuss the issue because it is pointless on my end.

Original: I'm asking here because I think my particular line of thinking might be not so out there here.

Has to do with at what age would you start letting your oldest (I'm assuming) watch the littler(s)? This has been discussed on the main board, but I was thinking about it specifically about my kids.

My mother started having me watch my two younger siblings when I was 6. Now, this was more a "I have to run around the corner to the store" or "stop off at the swimming pool association three blocks away" and I'm betting it was likely more for MY benefit than my mother's.

I actually see value in this. I think that it would be good for Lauren to start having the opportunity to "babysit" her three-year-old brother for short periods of time.

We tried this today. I knew I was going to put in a three mile run today, but I could have waited until later or I could have gone to the gym where they have childcare. But, I decided that we would have our first "practice" session for babysitting. I talked it over with Lauren and she was all for it. So, we pretended that I was going for a run outside, but we all knew that I was really in the basement on the treadmill. She was the boss while I was "out for my run."

She came and got me 1.24 miles into my run because she couldn't put the TV on a kids show, but after that I was left alone. I'm thinking of trying this more and more and for increasingly longer time. At some point, however, I'm going to have to transition from pretending to being gone to actually being gone.

So, for you and your family, what and how did you go about this learning process?

Not a minute sooner than the law allows in my case. The big one is legally allowed to be home alone during daylight for under 3 hours, but not to watch other people. Once he reaches THAT age (I think it's 12 or 13?), I'll take advantage of his supervisory nature at times.

Of course, the law is unclear on the subject in some states. As for when I was left alone with my sister while mom ran, it started when I was 7, almost 8. But we were asleep. ;)

Not a minute sooner than the law allows in my case. The big one is legally allowed to be home alone during daylight for under 3 hours, but not to watch other people. Once he reaches THAT age (I think it's 12 or 13?), I'll take advantage of his supervisory nature at times.

Of course, the law is unclear on the subject in some states. As for when I was left alone with my sister while mom ran, it started when I was 7, almost 8. But we were asleep. ;)

There are laws bout what age they are allowed to be at home unsupervised? I had no clue!

I was thinking about the sleep thing while I was running and I'm not sure about that. I would worry that they would wake up and freak out that I wasn't there as opposed to telling them that I'm leaving so they know.

Hmmm. . . intruiged about the law thing. Off to go research that one.

Not a runner, but this has come up for us recently. When my sister and I were left alone for 1/2 hour to an hour while my parents were at the coffee shop 3 miles away, we were five (me) and 10 (sis). We were pretty good kids, never did anything besides sneak Star Crunches that were set aside for our lunches.

Nico, now at 10, is hot to trot to babysit Luna and Kaya every now and then. Personally, I feel that she would be pretty good at it. She's taken 2 different babysitting courses. We've run through about 20 different emergency scenarios asking her what she would do if.... happened. I don;t know when we would actually let her stay alone, though. I think she could do it, we;ve just never had a need for it. I also believe the NY law is age specific.

Well, I'm not finding any Kansas law that specifies a minimum age, but I am finding Kansas SafeKids recommends not leaving any child under the age of 12 home alone and I think that is wack. Really, by 12 I was a competent babysitter. Shoot, half of our babysitters have been 12 when they started babysitting for us. I would hate to have a 12 year old babysitter who had never been left alone with their siblings prior to watching my kids.

Oh, and I saw a bill that was brought before the Kansas House that tried to make it a misdemeanor to leave any child under the age of 13 unattended in a parked car.

Texas is one of those vague states. There is no age specified in the law, it just references the maturity of the child. EXCEPT for when you are talking about leaving them in a car. Then they can't be younger than 7 unless there is someone older than 14 in the car with them. You can step away from the car for 5 minutes without penalty.

Not a runner, but this has come up for us recently. When my sister and I were left alone for 1/2 hour to an hour while my parents were at the coffee shop 3 miles away, we were five (me) and 10 (sis). We were pretty good kids, never did anything besides sneak Star Crunches that were set aside for our lunches.

Nico, now at 10, is hot to trot to babysit Luna and Kaya every now and then. Personally, I feel that she would be pretty good at it. She's taken 2 different babysitting courses. We've run through about 20 different emergency scenarios asking her what she would do if.... happened. I don;t know when we would actually let her stay alone, though. I think she could do it, we;ve just never had a need for it. I also believe the NY law is age specific.

See, I'm thinking that your parents going to the coffee shop three miles away for a half hour was probably more for your experience than theirs. Maybe Nico could start "babysitting" the girls while you and Jay go for a walk in the woods for 30 minutes. I'd bet it would be really good for her.

Latchkey Kids Age Limits Listed By State (http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm) This page has state by state age requirements.

Another thing to remember is that these guidelines are for leaving a child alone...not necessarily leaving a younger child in that child's care.

DANG! I had no idea MN didn't have an age requirement, I thought it was 12. My oldest is 11 and I still haven't left her alone with the other two. I guess we could practice soon.

Thanks Meeshi! As I thought, Kansas does not have a specific law, but it's recommended not before age 12. Not going to happen.

I'm almost positive that 11yo is the age for babysitting in the state of CA. either that, or 12. Connor was over 13 before I started leaving them alone. But my kids are also older. Curran was 5. All I need to do is let them watch tv or play xbox and they are happy as clams for hours...but I don't leave them for hours. :o

Part of it too, is that my 11yo is waaaay more inclined to take over and make sure everyone minds their p's and q's so I don't feel like I'm dumping a job on my oldest.

I also have neighbors who are home all of the time and if/when I do leave the kids, I pop over and let them know, JIC there is an immediate problem.

I also have neighbors who are home all of the time and if/when I do leave the kids, I pop over and let them know, JIC there is an immediate problem.

Yeah, absolutely.

For us as well, there would be certain things that would have to be demonstrated first: including Lauren knowing her address, phone number, how to use a phone, etc. We're still working on that so clearly we've got a ways to go. :lol:

Carl may or may not have left Erik and Anders at home one evening for 20 minutes while Anders was already sleeping and Erik was reading. ;) He thinks we could do that more, but we don't.

I "practice" a lot when I go over to the church for something and they are home. Just the two olders--CeeCee is too little. Though I do shower and let them "watch" her.

Ah, this thread stirs up painful reminders of a thread I once started... :P

What Is the Legal Age a Teen can Start Babysitting? - The Labor of Love Articles (http://www.thelaboroflove.com/articles/what-is-the-legal-age-a-teen-can-start-babysitting/)

This says that only Maryland and Illinois have laws governing the age of babysitters. I can't find anything else.

Ah, this thread stirs up painful reminders of a thread I once started... :P

I remember that thread. ;) I think I said the same thing.

It looks like there's no law in PA. I think I started leaving mine home alone for short errands--10-15 minutes--when my oldest was 7ish. I know that 4-H offers a babysitting course starting at age 11, and I think the Red Cross course is 12?

If I'm doing a morning run, I let my kids know at bedtime that if I'm not there when they wake up I'm out running and will be back soon. I like to leave the house by 6, but DS is an early riser and he's sometimes up by 6:20.

I'm not a totally free range parent, but I do let my kids go play at the park on their own too. I did the same as a kid, probably as soon as I was in 1st grade or so. We live in a pretty friendly neighborhood, mix of SAHMs, working families, and retirees. DD has been selling eggs and GS Cookies up and down the block since she was 7. They also go on their own to the bus stop, it's 3 houses down. I send them out the door about 5 minutes before the bus is due, and I don't feel the need to go and watch them.

Ah, this thread stirs up painful reminders of a thread I once started... :P


It does, doesn't it, Emily. :) Was that last August or something?

:hug:

I said at that time, that you know your neighborhood and your kids best, so you should do what is right for you and your dd.

I throw that in for this thread, too.

And, no, my 8 year old doesn't stay home alone at this time. But that is what is right for me, and everyone needs to do what is right for them. :D

Woops = how in the heck did I wind up here? Sorry about that. I'll slide my lazy untrained butt out of here, now. ;)

Ah, this thread stirs up painful reminders of a thread I once started... :P

hence my asking it in a smaller forum where more people know me. :lol:

I remember that thread. ;) I think I said the same thing.

you did! I do remember it.

I don't feel comfortable leaving any of my kids (10.5 and under) home alone.

None of them have the maturity to keep their heads straight in a crisis situation. And, while that may not be likely, I'm not willing to risk that chance. I would especially not leave them to care for a younger child who could get into any number of things. Then again, I trust very few adults to watch my children.

Bear in mind, if there is a law and it gets mentioned at daycare, swim, school, to a friend, neighbor, relative - that's enforceable and punishable by law. At least here, if a minor is injured while not adequately supervised by an adult (even in the case of a parent sleeping, which has recently been in the news) a parent can be held accountable.

Latchkey Kids Age Limits Listed By State (http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm) This page has state by state age requirements.

fascinating. it says (on that chart) that georgia law is age 9. it quotes a news article from NBC's augusta affiliate: What Age Can I Leave My Children Home Alone? | Breaking News, Weather, Sports and Entertainment for Georgia and South Carolina | Good Question (http://www.nbcaugusta.com/features/goodquestion/2793961.html)

when i looked for the law, i could find "suggestions" but no "law."

so, that said...i'll share what we've done.

keep in mind, my YOUNGEST is going into the same grade as your OLDEST, R, so my guidelines may not apply to you.

we will leave daniel in the care of his older two brothers for up to a couple hours. i did not start that process until about a year ago. my oldest was home alone at age 6 for maybe 10 minutes 2 or 3 times that year (if the bus got home and i was in traffic...i generally was home when he got home but i can remember at least two times when i got caught behind an accident or something.)

he was allowed to stay home alone from time to time for short periods ever since...i'm talking 10-30 minutes. we started allowing ds2 to stay home with him about 2 years ago. again...short trips. gradually worked them up over time.

i am going to say something and then clarify since i had a situation last weekend which was different, but we only use the "stay home" option in a couple of situations. one is obviously work...i work on call and sometimes dh is at work. if it's going to be a couple hours (but not on a school night...i won't have them eating alone or putting themselves to bed) before dh gets home and i am called out, i'm fine with leaving them.

i generally won't leave them for social events (clarify from last weekend...i did leave them for about 3 hours on saturday for a semi-social/semi-informational trip to town with friends...midday...and they were fine.) they have a phone. they know the rules. they play games and watch movies in the back of the house...and they're fine.

my thoughts are that i was a latch-key kid at a *much* younger age for *much* longer times and my mom was almost 2h away across detroit or charlotte. this is infrequent but regular enough that they know the rules and are totally NOT stressed about it. it means that i can work OTH and not have to worry about childcare for an hour or two...the kids are genuinely old enough that they are ok. if they were not ok, we'd find another option for them.

i think it depends on the kids though. and...like xt mentioned...the actual LAWS in your state. i think you need to be certain though...a "suggestion" isn't a LAW even though on that chart michelle shared, georgia made a suggestion that was stated to be law :joker:

oh. ages. yeah...my oldest will be 11 in a matter of weeks. middle is 9.5 and youngest is 6.

RE: what we did as kids, we also didn't ride in car seats, fwiw. Sometimes laws don't quite catch up with what's best for several years.

RE: what we did as kids, we also didn't ride in car seats, fwiw. Sometimes laws don't quite catch up with what's best for several years.

that may be true. however...that's why i also said it's important to gauge it kid by kid.

i personally was left alone a LOT as a kid. i won't do that. but, i am comfortable with occasionally for short bursts of time.

Yeah - I definitely don't think it's a magic age - whereby the child is suddenly capable and mature enough to stay home alone or be responsible for others. I do, however, think that the laws are a good rule of thumb and perhaps a starting point, generally speaking, for staying home alone.

I mean, DH and his four siblings rode in the back seat and hatchback of a Chevette. Five kids. They had to lay down back there and would drive several states - not just like a happy jaunt down the road to Grandma's. But, not exactly the case for doing so these days either, kwim?

RE: what we did as kids, we also didn't ride in car seats, fwiw. Sometimes laws don't quite catch up with what's best for several years.

I agree that I do not think that there is a magic age that works for all children and I don't inherently have a problem with an age law, BUT, I do not think that it is inherently dangerous or damaging for all children. I honestly think that not only could I see Lauren handling my running to the grocery store to pick up eggs (once she demonstrates that she knows how to call me on my cell, call the neighbors, and call 911), but that it would be of benefit for her in terms of self-esteem, self-confidence, and responsibility.

As with so many things, it would be fabulous if laws were not needed to help govern stupid and irresponsible behavior of the few.

I honestly think that not only could I see Lauren handling my running to the grocery store to pick up eggs (once she demonstrates that she knows how to call me on my cell, call the neighbors, and call 911), but that it would be of benefit for her in terms of self-esteem, self-confidence, and responsibility.

As with so many things, it would be fabulous if laws were not needed to help govern stupid and irresponsible behavior of the few.

I was talking with some of the moms at DD's 3rd grade graduation back in June. The simple "what are you doing this summer" chatter. I told them that Em was going to GS camp for two weeks and sleeping over. Two of the moms blurted out right away, "Oh, my daughter could never do that!" And the first thought in my head was, "Well of course not, you're at the school and in her classroom every dang day, she'd never survive without you!"

I'm all for teaching my kids to take care of themselves as they're able. I think for quite some time now, parents have been on the over-supervising side. DH has gone through many HS kids the past few years at his job. These kids have never been made to work, have no ethic, no sense of responsibility. They think nothing of no call/no showing for work. Or they show up hung over (about the only thing these kids seem to know how to do away from mommy and daddy) and throwing up so badly that DH has to send them home.

If we don't teach our kids responsibility and self-reliance, where will they learn it?

I think for quite some time now, parents have been on the over-supervising side. DH has gone through many HS kids the past few years at his job. These kids have never been made to work, have no ethic, no sense of responsibility. They think nothing of no call/no showing for work. Or they show up hung over (about the only thing these kids seem to know how to do away from mommy and daddy) and throwing up so badly that DH has to send them home.

If we don't teach our kids responsibility and self-reliance, where will they learn it?

I agree completely. I believe our kids are far more competent than we - as a society - give them credit. Or can be if we guide/teach them and provide them opportunities to be so.

I think it's also important to note that the pendulum swings in the opposite way as well. Responsibility at age appropriate levels is essential, I agree. But just as there is a concern with not enough, there is concern with too much.

I think it's also important to note that the pendulum swings in the opposite way as well. Responsibility at age appropriate levels is essential, I agree. But just as there is a concern with not enough, there is concern with too much.

absolutely!


oh, and Sandi, this isn't in reference to you at all, but I seem to recall a discussion here several years ago (at least two) about the protectiveness spectrum and we in general noted a trend toward those of us born and raised in earlier decades being more on the under-protective end of the spectrum and those born in the later decades being more in the over-protective end of the spectrum.

I am mixed on this. I do agree that a magic age is not an effective way to gauge this but as a person who has worked with the FIA (social services), when I taught, I would not feel comfortable leaving my kids alone (regardless of responsibility level) before age 11 or 12. The main reason for this is that if there was an emergency and 9-1-1 was called you can bet money that the FIA would be called in for negligence if the children were much younger than the ages I stated above. I guess for me, the odd chance that this situation would happen would be enough for me not to leave my kids. I can't justify a run to the store, coffee house, etc... if there is even the slight potential of being found as neglectful or having a case opened on my family with the FIA.

My kids are all very responsible, well mannered, and would probably be just fine right now at 8,6, and almost 4 if I ran to the store 2 blocks away. Even though they would be fine, I personally am not comfortable with it. Of course I am one of those kids that was left to take care of younger sibs at an early age and I do not have fond memories of it.

For now, dh and I are happy with asking the boys to take care of each other and Gwen when we are inside and they are outside or vice versa. I do go to my neighbors occassionally (about 50 feet away) but only for 10 min. at a time and only during nap time or if they are consumed with something like a video or art project. We feel that gaining a sense of responsibility thorugh this and household tasks is enough for our kids at their current ages.

I must admit though that I am counting down the days to when I will feel comfortable leaving my kiddos home so that dh and I can go have dinner in town, go for a walk, etc... Some close friends have boys that are 11 and 13. They have just started leaving them alone in the last year and they said it is so freeing to have just a couple hours a week of alone time.

None of them have the maturity to keep their heads straight in a crisis situation. And, while that may not be likely, I'm not willing to risk that chance. I would especially not leave them to care for a younger child who could get into any number of things. Then again, I trust very few adults to watch my children.



This is how I feel. My Jacob is 12.5 and is certainly "mature" enough to be a babysitter. If nothing out of the ordinary were to happen.

I fear that he wouldn't be able to react properly in an emergency. Heck, sometimes *I* worry about myself in an emergency! :lol:

That being said, this past winter, I did leave them home alone while I ran. They were basically playing video games in the basement and were instructed to not answer the phone (unless they for sure knew by caller ID who was calling) or the door. He had my cell phone number, dh's work number (he works 4.5 miles away from home) and my mom's work number (5-6 miles away from our house).

My run was no more than about 1/2 mile away at the most from our house. I just did the same 1/2 mile several times. Not exactly the most ideal run, but at least I got one in. ;)

That's interesting, Rebecca. I also wonder if it's how our parents raised us - whether under or over protective.

My Mom never hesitated to tell us all the gory details of children like Adam who were kidnapped. I think they were trying to instill a "healthy dose of fear" in us. Too much? Maybe.

My grandparents - DEFINITELY under-protective in today's society. 50 years ago? Probably just fine.

DH pointed out something I thought was really valid tonight at dinner (this was the last thing I was typing on before we sat down to eat and it carried over). He said - nevermind if something happened to the *kids* while we were gone (which he was, of course, concerned about) - but what if something happened to US. How long would we be gone before they'd do something? Find someone? Do they know what to do when Mom doesn't come home? Are they young enough to go out looking for you, if they want something, need something, if something happens, etc. All considerations.

yup, all interesting and important things to consider for sure!

Interesting discussion/conversations/points of view!

I read most but not all of the responses- I started skimming after a while as the thread got longer.

I was an avid babysitter at a young age. I was fully capable of handling the day to day care of a child. I'm glad nothing serious ever happened. With the amount of times I accidentally set microwaves on fire as a kid (who knew twisty ties had metal in them.....duh ;)) combined with watching our neighbors house burn to the ground last week, I just know I personally wouldn't be comfortable with leaving my kids alone to watch each other at any early age. Fires, choking....things that require immediate level headed action are what keep me away from the idea. There are lots of other scenerios that can instill the same qualities without the high stakes imo.

I wouldn't even let my little brother (who was 16-18 at the time) watch my kids alone while I was away from the house until recently when he started taking mountaineer training with my husband and went through MOFA (mountain oriented first aid training). My kids have age appropriate freedoms and responsibilities (and will continue to do so in increasing measure) without the high stakes (at least thats what I hope for). To me camp experiences and the like are a bit different as there are a lot of camp counselors and camp medic and the like on staff. Sure I want to be comfortable with the setting and the adults and I'd have to gauge it by my child BUT its a big difference from that to only child-supervision. My first year of camp my dad went as the camp medic. The following years I was able to go to camps that my older brothers were at- it just worked out that way.

My mother let me 'baby sit' for these various people (if she felt comfortable with them of course) but she always thought those people were a bit off their rockers, and now as a mother looking back on it I tend to agree. Not related to this discussion but I had one mom have me watch her 3month old for 3days/2nights when I was 13 or so. I thought it was great fun to 'play' mom but all the what-if's are scary to think about (and my mom was thinking of them at the time, she kept calling to check up on me and stopping by- lol).

Sarah

Great points, Sarah.

Last week Piper (4) jumped off the bed to get on her sister's back :rolleyes: - sister moved - she slammed onto the floor. She was freaking out - not seizing, but in that panic where the eyes aren't looking straight ahead and she wasn't breathing yet - kwim? Where they are about to suck in a huge gasp of air and start SHRIEKING?

We heard the thump from our room, Madison (10.5) ran down the hallway, screamed "MOM" - DH and I ran the 8 feet to her room and Madison was hysterically crying/screaming the whole time "you have to do something, something's wrong with Piper!"

Of course, as soon as we got in there she was wailing and fine, but in that moment - Madison was so terrified at the sight of her sister looking even remotely injured, she had no clue what to do. IF she had the presence of mind to call 911, it wouldn't have been warranted, either. Heck, I've had the kids get hurt and not know if it was time to call or not, yk?

Your choking comment brought that to mind. I'm trained in CPR and have been certified repeatedly and I still don't know if I could remember all the bits and pieces in the face of caring for my own child.

Of course, as soon as we got in there she was wailing and fine, but in that moment - Madison was so terrified at the sight of her sister looking even remotely injured, she had no clue what to do. IF she had the presence of mind to call 911, it wouldn't have been warranted, either. Heck, I've had the kids get hurt and not know if it was time to call or not, yk?

Your choking comment brought that to mind. I'm trained in CPR and have been certified repeatedly and I still don't know if I could remember all the bits and pieces in the face of caring for my own child.

Yep and the high stakes are not just about what could happen- but also the trauma to the kid that was 'left in charge' and would feel guilt about what happened when they really shouldn't since they are still a child as well. Its just high stakes for a life skill that I think can be gained in other ways that are less risky.

Sandi- it would all come back to you in the moment. You've got the mama instict/mama bear super powers working for you ;)

Sarah

Ah, this thread stirs up painful reminders of a thread I once started... :P

You know Emily, turns out I didn't read that post at the time it was going on. I just read it now. It must have been some other similar thread that I remembered, but not yours. Now that I have read all of it, what I've come to is this: I am a very very different type parent than most people here. :lol:

It isn't a value judgement of better or worse, just different. Almost as if I have more differences than similarities. And, the top of the differences list has to do with the protection issue. And, the thing is, I think I'm a rather attentive parent (and some amity moms have seen me parent).

Maybe I'm just a terribly irresponsible, selfish mother. It's possible, but wow. That's all I have to say about that. And, I'm thinking no where on Amity is anywhere where I could have a discussion about how I could go about starting to leave her for brief periods of time and have it be a beneficial discussion for me. :D I'm absolutely, barring a complete change in personality on either my or Lauren's account, not going to be waiting until she is in the double digits. Shoot, my favorite babysitters have been 12 (with their mother two doors down home while we went out). I'd hate for a 12 year old babysitter to have her very first time being independently alone being when she is babysitting my two kids. Frankly, reading your thread makes me want even more to just leave Lauren here by herself while I run to the store for eggs. :lol:

hm, and maybe I should move this thread to the age forum at this point.

I have left the baby alone with my 11yo for short time periods a couple of times. I trust her though. She's very responsible and I'd do it again, especially now that he's older. :p

Ironically, the two times we had to take Kaya to the ER, it was Nico who was the level headed, quick moving thinker of the group. I was all running around in a tizzy and Nico just got 'er done. :lol:

So Rebecca, when you say that Jay and I could leave Nico with the girls while we went for a walk in the woods, you've inspired me. Next weekend, we'll have to do just that. Well, even if not a real walk. ;) I do have a long range baby monitor we can bring.

Oh, and if I come back with poison ivy on my @ss, I am just going to say it is your fault. ;)

Oh, and if I come back with poison ivy on my @ss, I am just going to say it is your fault. ;)

totally! It absolutely would be my fault. :lol:

And, if anything happened to the kids while you were gone - and it probably would - it would not only be my fault, but it would validate so many. yeah, I'm still having issues :lol:

But, more seriously, I've really been thinking about the whole thing over the past few days and was reminded of "The Continuum Concept." Great, awesome book. Now, that is much more inline with my approach to parenting. I need to find it and quote it.

And, if anything happened to the kids while you were gone - and it probably would - it would not only be my fault, but it would validate so many. yeah, I'm still having issues :lol:


I have not read/was not a part of the previous mentioned thread and I have not read the book that you refer to. I was sharing my personal comfort zone on the matter and didn't mean to make you feel 'attacked' (I'm guessing here). I do not need to feel validated. The last thing I'd do if a child was hurt in an accident is start pointing and blaming, less it was me then I might have issues with blaming myself. I think life is a series of calculated risks and we each as parents have to make decisions about what risks we can handle and which we can't. I can't handle this one, at least at this point in my life and foreseeable future, but I never think twice about not bringing carseats with me on airlines. AND which I wasn't totally comfortable with it I let my kids ride unrestrained while overseas- though I don't do it here. That may not make any logical sense to another parent but those were the calculated risks I am willing to live with the consequences of and the ones I'm not. If you are cool with the scenerio in question then its just one of those calculated risks that you choose........... I'm ok with that. Every choice in life carries its risks and benefits and we all make different, not better, choices than the next (next person, next generation, next culture, next anything). Today my daughter will be standing by a busy street waiting for a huge potentially people crushing bus to pick her up for a 'school' themed birthday party on the other side of town- a million physical dangers and plus emotional dangers (will she love 'school' more than homeschool?)- I'm willing to risk today for the fun with her close friends celebrating a birthday.

Anyhow- I didn't mean to offend earlier and I've got that sinking feeling that I did. I thought your questions were being put out for discussion to a smaller group (that I considered myself a fringe part of). I'm sorry if I offended and I'm sorry if right now I'm thinking too highly of myself and you didn't give my previous post more than a glancing thought, lol!

Sarah

I was sharing my personal comfort zone on the matter and didn't mean to make you feel 'attacked' (I'm guessing here).

I haven't read all of your post yet as we are about to run out the door, but I did want to address this: I do not, at all, feel attacked. Nor am I questioning myself. I was stunned to see just how very very different my personal parenting philosophy was from the majority of those expressing their POV (and the manner in which they chose to address their POV) on that particular thread. It highlights a trend I've been observing around here for a while that is just very contrary to who I am as a parent. And, I'm not sure how well I fit if there are increasingly many areas that I probably would no longer discuss.

And, we are leaving right now, so I will be back to read more. Sorry this is so much a post on the run.

Anyhow- I didn't mean to offend earlier and I've got that sinking feeling that I did. I thought your questions were being put out for discussion to a smaller group (that I considered myself a fringe part of). I'm sorry if I offended and I'm sorry if right now I'm thinking too highly of myself and you didn't give my previous post more than a glancing thought, lol!

okay, back.

And, I've read the rest of your post. I don't have any problem with anything that you - or anybody else for that matter - wrote. It wasn't about being offended or upset. And, really, it wasn't about this particular thread at all. It was more going back and looking at the old one referenced (that I hadn't read at the time it was active) and just going "wow" about the general consensus with regard to that particular post.

There is no drama. There are no hurt feelings. Just an awareness that this particular question of mine isn't one that would prove all that fruitful for me here given a different parenting philosophy.

But, really, Sarah, how could I ever be offended by anything you wrote? :hug: In any interaction of yours that I've ever read, you are always nothing but kind, respectful, and compassionate.

But, really, Sarah, how could I ever be offended by anything you wrote? :hug: In any interaction of yours that I've ever read, you are always nothing but kind, respectful, and compassionate.

phew! Rebecca I really respect you as a woman, mama and friend and so I'm glad we are good- thanks for clearing that up for me :)

Sarah

:hug:

i would totally feel ok with leaving savannah in a year or two by herself for a short trip (not sure i would actually do it...she's just that kind of responsible type)...but i would NOT leave her with jackson....he is a mess of trouble and really i would worry...maybe when he is older....hrm.

in ga it's 9

i absolutely love THE CONTINUUM CONCEPT and found my own infant-mothering to be quite in line with it. i find, as my children have gotten older, that the philosophy still remains much the same, for me.

(i'm still not convinced that ga has a "law" that says 9 years...i have not been able to locate an actual statute. i have found "recommendations" but not an actual statute.)

from the georgia department of human resources...a recommendation stating age 8...but clearly not an actual statute.

georgia.gov - Department of Human Resources (http://www.dhr.state.ga.us/portal/site/DHR/menuitem.3d43c0fad7b3111b50c8798dd03036a0/?vgnextoid=fce338426162c010VgnVCM100000bf01010aRCR D&vgnextchannel=5a236f865309b010VgnVCM100000bf01010a RCRD)

i absolutely love THE CONTINUUM CONCEPT and found my own infant-mothering to be quite in line with it. i find, as my children have gotten older, that the philosophy still remains much the same, for me.

absolutely. The same here.

i would totally feel ok with leaving savannah in a year or two by herself for a short trip (not sure i would actually do it...she's just that kind of responsible type)...but i would NOT leave her with jackson....he is a mess of trouble and really i would worry...maybe when he is older....hrm.

in ga it's 9

I just saw a shirt that I think is rather appropriate for Jonathan:

http://www.gap.com/Asset_Archive/GPWeb/Assets/Product/592/592546/main/gp592546-07p01v01.jpg

I didn't read the thread, but to answer the OP - I left Chelsey home with her sister Zoey when she was 12 and Zoey was 6mos old - for an hour and I was freaked the whole time lol. As they both got older Chelsey of course babysat more. My kids are further spaced apart, but I guess I'd not feel comfortable leaving Zoey (8) in charge of Roman (5 but socially more like 3) at all.

I've just started leaving Isabelle (almost 13) in charge of Mason (7.5) for short periods of time.

I'm totally confident in her responsibility and Mason is a really laid back kid and easy to manage. I still have hesitations due to my own traumatic experiences though.

The biggest scare I had was when my sister (12 at the time, I was 14) put her hand/arm through a window when we were home alone/together. She sliced through a main artery in her arm and could have easily died had things gone differently. I don't panic easily (I freak when everything is over) and called 911. And, luckily, we literally lived across the street from the hospital. So the ambulance was there in 2 minutes. And my parents got home as they were loading the ambulance.

But it could have gone very wrong so easily. And I would have forever blamed myself if it had.

Mine are only 4 and 2, but I have a feeling I will leave them at a younger age then most. I find myself to be less of a "hover-er" when at the park, etc. I am the mom reading at the bench and letting her kids figure things out on their own. I don't swoop into their room the second here is crying, only if it reaches a "something is really wrong" point. I already expect Seamus to assume some responsibility for his sister while I am in the shower, taking a little rest in my room, or watching "Lost" on the computer :) I think it is important for kids to learn to figure things out for themselves and to have a sense of responsibility. I was babysitting other people's children by 10 years old, and I have no doubt we will be leaving ours (for short trips, like mentioned above) by about 8. We also plan for them to go to sleep away camp for 2 weeks at 8, 3 weeks at 9, and 1 month beginning at 10-my memories of 6 weeks at camp are the best of my life....so I can really see where you are coming from Rebecca, and I think the age is such a personal decision and depending on the kids in the next several years it could be as soon as 2-3 years that we leave them to go to the neighbors for dinner, etc.

Ah, I should reread the continuum concept. Thanks for the prompt, Rebecca.

Now, see...

I'm not a hoverer either. I'm all for kids having the opportunity and freedom to work things out on their own.

But, to me, there's a big difference between being nearby and not interfering and being gone/unavailable.

But then I admit I have issues.

I just can't get past the fact that children have the judgement of children.

I was an extremely responsible kid and was left in charge of my sisters (2 and 7yrs younger than me) from the age of 10. And I totally did my share of stupid things. Things like making a campfire in the basement or breaking into a 2nd floor window (bc everyone forgot their key that day) by stacking the benches on top of the picnic table and a step ladder on top of that. The whole stack collapsed as I barely made it into my bedroom window.

Looking back I can't imagine why we just didn't go to the neighbor's house or wait outside til our parents came home. I know we were afraid of getting in trouble for forgetting our keys. But I can't imagine how we thought the decision we made was the best option.

Kids do not have adult judgement. In situations that require adult decision making skills there's a good chance kids will make a kid decision.

See and I think that there might be some misunderstanding/projecting as to what I'm thinking about. What I am thinking about (not that I'm going to discuss it here when and if I do - and worry not, it isn't going to be anytime soon), is not leaving my kids for any extended period of time. I'm not thinking, "hey, let me get Lauren good to go so that Eric and I can leave her in charge of Jonathan while we hang out at the bar. Woo Hoo!"

Makes me wonder how well people know me at all. And, what sort of parent they attribute me as being.

I'm thinking about when and how I would begining to *start* to prepare Lauren to leave her alone in the house for 10 minutes - and, again, not anytime soon. She does not have the skills I would require before I do (demonstrating the ability to use the phone, knowledge of 911, neighbor's, and grandparent phone numbers, her own address, etc.).

Also, just so you guys can see that perhaps the scenarios that people might be projecting are not close, I just decided my work schedule. I'd been thinking of getting off work at 3:00 p.m. on Tuesdays and Wednesdays so that Lauren doesn't have to go to aftercare. My plan was to bike home. It takes me 50 minutes. Hauling ass. Her school bus arrives here at 4:00 p.m. I could likely be here before her bus the majority of the time, but there might be the random time when I would be 5-10 minutes late. I *could* give her the key to the house and have her sit tight for no more than 10 minutes no more than very rarely. I did not even consider it as a possibility because she is too young. And, I cannot see doing it the year after. Frankly, I cannot see doing it probably ever.

I do believe that which some of you are envisioning is not even close. First of all, I'm only thinking about how I might *start* to go about it. It was an intellectual pondering sort of question, not an "I'm going to do this today."

Finally, I also wonder if some are thinking that my thoughts are inherently selfish in nature and are motivated by personal desire for freedom, rather than for my child's benefit and growth.

:hippy:

Oh I totally got off on my own personal tangent...much more related to posts that weren't by you, Rebecca. I didn't think you were talking about any extended period of time thing. :) Just kinda poking my nose in at that end of the conversation and ignoring where it all started.

But I do think maybe...perhaps...you're overthinking things just a wee bit. You don't really have to set out consciously to prepare for such situations. Or at least I didn't.

Kinda like how you don't have to plan for the day (or prepare for in advance) when it's ok for you to be asleep when your child/ren are awake, iykwim.

All those little baby steps that make it soemthing you're comfortable with happen when you aren't even paying attention. One day it just suddenly becomes something you're ok with.

But then I'm totally not a planner at all. :p

Oh I totally got off on my own personal tangent...much more related to posts that weren't by you, Rebecca. I didn't think you were talking about any extended period of time thing. :)

But I do think maybe...perhaps...you're overthinking things just a wee bit. You don't really have to set out consciously to prepare for such situations. Or at least I didn't.

Kinda like how you don't have to plan for the day (or prepare for in advance) when it's ok for you to be asleep when your child/ren are awake, iykwim.

But then I'm totally not a planner at all. :p

of course I am! That's what I do :lol: (and, to an extent, it was a minor passing internal question until there so much "I would never" at which point I did have to think about it more). But, ask me where we are going on vacation for the next 20 years and I can tell you:

2009 Cozumel
2010 Cruise in the Southern Caribbean
2011 Italy - specifically Tuscany
2012 France
2013 Galapagos

I really can keep going :lol: and, I'm also completely aware that my this-is-absolute-list will change probably monthly from now until I go anywhere. I seriously doubt I'll hit all those, but that's my current overthinking plan.


And, what my expected budget is going to be. Half the fun is thinking about it. My mind overthinks things all the time.







But, back to this, I wonder if part of the differences are attributed to childhood experiences. My mother was a full time SAHM who granted us a whole lot of freedom -

1. At the start of Kindergarten (KINDERGARTEN), she walked me to school for a few days, then she made me walk and she followed behind me for a few days, and then I walked by myself (four blocks, maybe a third of a mile). She did not do this so that she didn't have to walk me. She did this for me.

2. when we first first first moved to France, I was almost, but not quite 8. My brother was 5. My mother would give me money so that my brother and I could walk the kilometer (maybe more) from our house to the village so that we could buy ice cream. She did this so that we could familiarize ourselves with the culture, be forced to speak more, and develop confidence.

3. and, then, there is my favorite: at the age of 13, I flew, by myself, from SF to NY where I changed planes by myself (not escort) and flew from NY to Paris where I negotiated customs by myself. Six weeks later I flew, by myself, from Paris to NY, negotiated customs, then flew NY to SF.

Yet, my mom was always there. She was there when we left for school and she was there when we came home. I don't really recall ever having her NOT there. (they rarely went out without us and when they did, we had babysitters until I was 12). So, we had a lot of mom, but then she encouraged independence as well. It was never about her needs, it was about fostering the growth of my wings.

RE: the bus thing - at my niece's schools, they won't let them off the bus if a parent is not there to meet them. I don't know at which age that changes, but I know that because of traffic (they used to go to school in their Dad's district) she has run late and they've taken the kids back to school for after-care and charged Mom for it.

RE: the bus thing - at my niece's schools, they won't let them off the bus if a parent is not there to meet them. I don't know at which age that changes, but I know that because of traffic (they used to go to school in their Dad's district) she has run late and they've taken the kids back to school for after-care and charged Mom for it.

That's a great idea and I do not believe that they do that here, but it is also a non-issue for me as I wouldn't even consider it (though my neighbors and I have a policy that if one of the kids gets off the bus and their parent isn't there, that one of us would take the child to our home (we all watch out for each other and our kids on our block, but, still, I wouldn't put that burden on them regularly, so, again, it is a non issue).

Carl is even more "lax" than me (obviously, by my previous story!). He really thinks Erik could walk to school alone. It's pretty safe, since it's all through the campus of Mills (as we enter the back gate, and are never on the city streets), but he would have to cross 2 streets. He's shown himself to be responsible, but there are NO crossing guards or crosswalks at the last intersection. So he can't do it (the school sent out a PSA saying that kids have to be 10 to cross the street on their own, so I was able to have something to back me up. :lol:)

I have to admit that I would be comfortable with it in a few years. But he'll have siblings, too, and I wouldn't trust him to walk Anders to school, too, until Anders is older. And by then there will be CeeCee, too, and she'd just be in kindy, so I don't see him ever walking to school on his own.

Just a ramble, I guess. I don't judge you or think you're a bad parent. Hmmm, maybe it makes me like you even more as a parent. :lol:

Just a ramble, I guess. I don't judge you or think you're a bad parent. Hmmm, maybe it makes me like you even more as a parent. :lol:

:lol:

Thanks

RE: the bus thing - at my niece's schools, they won't let them off the bus if a parent is not there to meet them. I don't know at which age that changes, but I know that because of traffic (they used to go to school in their Dad's district) she has run late and they've taken the kids back to school for after-care and charged Mom for it.

wow. that's pretty hefty.

i personally would be furious in that scenario. our bus driver almost didn't let our kids off the bus one afternoon bc i wasn't out there. dh was home but didn't go to the stop (1 yard away.) my oldest was like...look...the two little girls from the cul-de-sac get off every day without a parent present. they walk around the corner, out of sight of the bus. you have to let us off the bus, our house is *right there*! he pointed out her inconsistency and she let them off.

i'm glad. i would have been livid to learn she refused to let them off, but in our area there is no rule saying the bus driver can decide whether to drop off a kid or not.

this is where the school can potentially step on my toes as the parent and i get pretty hot about it. i know what the statutes say, i know my kids and i know what we have set forth in our home...as long as i am within my rights by the law (and i am) no one gets to decide whether my kids get off the bus (whether or not someone is home...the law is on my side with regards to them being latch-key or not, whether it be for 5 minutes or an hour.)


this is the kind of thread where i can realllllly see the differences in parenting and it's also the kind of thread where inadvertent judgments can be made and show through. let's tread carefully ;) (we have thus far...)

Excellent point about the law. In her state, there is no law about babysitting or unsupervised children. In fact, her ex left the kids home alone at an insanely young age (I want to say the oldest was 4 or 5) and she called the police and checked statutes. So, it must just be a school district decision.

So, it must just be a school district decision.

that it may be...but it doesn't overstep the rights of the parents, yk?

(this just hit a hot button for me since it almost happened to my kids...and in my instance, my dh was HOME, he just wasn't at the stop, he was in the house 50 feet away. had she not let them off i would have been ALL OVER the bus driver, school and school system like white on rice.)

I just saw a shirt that I think is rather appropriate for Jonathan:

http://www.gap.com/Asset_Archive/GPWeb/Assets/Product/592/592546/main/gp592546-07p01v01.jpg

totally!

My Mom never hesitated to tell us all the gory details of children like Adam who were kidnapped. I think they were trying to instill a "healthy dose of fear" in us. Too much? Maybe.

see, I vividly remember Adam and the search and eventually them finding his head. I was 9 then.

I'm thinking probably age 12 here to be left home alone with siblings. Lindsey's almost 7 and nowhere ready. Maybe I'd let her stay alone around age 10 or so, but I really can't answer that at this point as I seem to have misplaced my crystal ball. Lindsey gets panicky though, and that's a big part of it.

our situation is compounded though by the issue of epi pen knowledge if she were to keep the youngers. That's not something I'm willing to put on her shoulders at a young age.

I've had her 'supervise' the kids while I'm doing other stuff (sorting in the garage or whatever) for several years now, probably starting around age 3 since I felt she could handle that if I were home. Josh occasionally 'supervises' Leila and has since he was 4. Actually, come to think of it, I've walked down to the mailbox and back several times and left a big one in charge, but it's within earshot if there's a problem (and close enough that I can run!).

Sorry, I didn't revist this thread until just now.

I have nothing more to say on the subject. LOL