So, with all of the talk of recession, gardening, food storage, etc. I thought it might be helpful to start a food storage discussion. I know many of us have been following Sharon Astyk's blog (Casaubon's Book), or may store food already because of religious affiliation of personal conviction.

We do store food, but taking a look at some of the storage calculators online we don't store nearly enough.

So here are some of my questions:

If you don't like to store food in plastic, what are you doing? Stainless steel food storage containers (big ones) are incredibly expensive. Glass jars aren't big enough. Are you storing in plastic food buckets? Do you have another option?

What about items that are significantly cheaper in bulk, but only come in plastic? Oils, vinegars, peanut butter, etc.

If you eat an organic diet, would you stock up now with non-organic food to be able to have one year's worth of food stored quickly, or would you buy it organic over a longer period of time? For instance, I am thinking of items such as sugar and other items that have a significant premium when purchased organically. I will buy grains and beans organic.

If you don't regularly eat canned foods, would you store them anyway, and work them into rotation? I could see us using canned pears, black olives, canned salmon, etc. but we never eat canned vegetables.

Where are you storing your food. It occurs to me that a year's worth of food takes up a lot of space. My pantry certainly isn't big enough, I don't have a basement, and the garage may be too hot May through October. No under bed space (and really, 5 gallon food buckets don't fit under the bed anyway).

How does your partner or significant other feel about food storage? Is s/he convinced of the need? Dh has been on board but I've never discussed having a full year's worth of all foods. Also, there is the idea that we don't have as great a need as if we were in financial trouble. We are likely to weather a recession well. Food shortages are another issue, of course.

Do you have a grain mill that can be operated without electricity? Do you have a reliable cooking method that doesn't rely on electricity or natural gas?

Well, that should get us started. I'll have to post some answers tomorrow.

If you don't like to store food in plastic, what are you doing? Stainless steel food storage containers (big ones) are incredibly expensive. Glass jars aren't big enough. Are you storing in plastic food buckets? Do you have another option?

I store most of my beans, herbs, popcorn, etc... in 1/2 gallon masons or 6 q6. apothocary jars. Most flours and grains go in the freezer in their original packaging

What about items that are significantly cheaper in bulk, but only come in plastic? Oils, vinegars, peanut butter, etc.

I buy the costco organic peanut butter. It isn't bulk but is in a size that fits our needs so it just stays in its jars. Due to not having enough half gallon masons my oils have currently stayed in the plastic jugs they come in (our co-op orders 55 gallon drums of oil and then they are split up into milk type gallon jugs).

If you eat an organic diet, would you stock up now with non-organic food to be able to have one year's worth of food stored quickly, or would you buy it organic over a longer period of time? For instance, I am thinking of items such as sugar and other items that have a significant premium when purchased organically. I will buy grains and beans organic.

We do not have a full years worth of food but generally have at least 3 months worth at a time. I will not buy cheaper alternatives. I do have some that is not organic but that is because we don't have other options in our area. I would not buy cheap alternatives just to have x amount of food. I have built my pantry up over time with quality foods and would do it the same way over again if I had to start from scratch.

If you don't regularly eat canned foods, would you store them anyway, and work them into rotation? I could see us using canned pears, black olives, canned salmon, etc. but we never eat canned vegetables.

We do eat some canned stuff like salmon, some canned beans, tuna, canned veggies for a dump soup I make, canned tomato products, and canned corn for quesadillas. I don't store much that we wouldn't use on a regular basis but I usually have about 15-20 cans of canned veggies (that we don't normally eat) on hand just in case (we generally eat fresh or frozen).

Where are you storing your food. It occurs to me that a year's worth of food takes up a lot of space. My pantry certainly isn't big enough, I don't have a basement, and the garage may be too hot May through October. No under bed space (and really, 5 gallon food buckets don't fit under the bed anyway).

Like I said before, we only store about 3 months worth of food but I have a large utility room with several sets of industrial shelves that could be used for food and I also have 2 big freezers.

How does your partner or significant other feel about food storage? Is s/he convinced of the need? Dh has been on board but I've never discussed having a full year's worth of all foods. Also, there is the idea that we don't have as great a need as if we were in financial trouble. We are likely to weather a recession well. Food shortages are another issue, of course.

Terry is comfortable with the amount we have but would probably think I was going a bit overboard if I wanted to keep a full years worth on hand. My dh has a very stable job so though he likes a stocked pantry so that we aren't running to the store he doesn't see it as a need for when times are tough. I think a bit differently than him on this topic though.

Do you have a grain mill that can be operated without electricity? Do you have a reliable cooking method that doesn't rely on electricity or natural gas?

I do not have a grain mill but hope to get one within the year. I have a camp store that we could use and we also have a fire pit.

__________________

So, with all of the talk of recession, gardening, food storage, etc. I thought it might be helpful to start a food storage discussion. I know many of us have been following Sharon Astyk's blog (Casaubon's Book), or may store food already because of religious affiliation of personal conviction.

Curious, did you know of her blog before I posted the link?

We are just getting started with storing food - we have more of a typical pantry setup. But I want to do more this year with storage.

Here are my answers:

If you don't like to store food in plastic, what are you doing? Stainless steel food storage containers (big ones) are incredibly expensive. Glass jars aren't big enough. Are you storing in plastic food buckets? Do you have another option?

We use 1/2 gallon jars for beans and grains. If I bought 25 lb of beans or rice at a time, I would store them in the burlap bags that they come in, inside a foodgrade bucket with a lid. I think. :) That's just my brainstorm..I need to read up.

What about items that are significantly cheaper in bulk, but only come in plastic? Oils, vinegars, peanut butter, etc.

You can put anything bulk in your own glass jars. Just bring them with you and weigh them before filling, then deduct the jar weight at the register.

I don't like to buy oils too far ahead (same w/peanut butter) because of rancidity issues.

If you eat an organic diet, would you stock up now with non-organic food to be able to have one year's worth of food stored quickly, or would you buy it organic over a longer period of time? For instance, I am thinking of items such as sugar and other items that have a significant premium when purchased organically. I will buy grains and beans organic.

I plan to slowly work toward having a year's worth of these types of foods, but yes I will buy them organic. For sugar, we'll store maple syrup - very inexpensive especially if we produce it ourselves (next year, we are still working on infrastructure for that). I can't really think of anything else that would be terribly expensive to buy organic that we would buy.

If you don't regularly eat canned foods, would you store them anyway, and work them into rotation? I could see us using canned pears, black olives, canned salmon, etc. but we never eat canned vegetables.

We eat canned beans sometimes. I don't know...

Where are you storing your food. It occurs to me that a year's worth of food takes up a lot of space. My pantry certainly isn't big enough, I don't have a basement, and the garage may be too hot May through October. No under bed space (and really, 5 gallon food buckets don't fit under the bed anyway).

We have a room in our basement that is a large pantry with shelves already built. I plan to look into root cellaring - we are building one for the elementary school as part of the farm to school project, so hopefully I will learn a bit about it now. I believe that our pantry room could serve as a root cellar; if anything it may get too cold (down to freezing).

How does your partner or significant other feel about food storage? Is s/he convinced of the need? Dh has been on board but I've never discussed having a full year's worth of all foods. Also, there is the idea that we don't have as great a need as if we were in financial trouble. We are likely to weather a recession well. Food shortages are another issue, of course.

He's open to anything.

Do you have a grain mill that can be operated without electricity? Do you have a reliable cooking method that doesn't rely on electricity or natural gas?

We do not have a grain mill at all. I think we're all about to go off of gluten. Not sure if we need a grain mill? I guess I need to look into this more. We really don't eat many grains - some rice and quinoa is about it.

We definitely can cook without electric or propane (our stove is propane). We have a woodstove - not a cookstove, but we could make it work if we had to. I would like to get a wood cookstove to have somewhere so that we could install it if we needed to. We don't have space for one inside the house.

So, with all of the talk of recession, gardening, food storage, etc. I thought it might be helpful to start a food storage discussion. I know many of us have been following Sharon Astyk's blog (Casaubon's Book), or may store food already because of religious affiliation of personal conviction.

Can someone repost this link?

If you don't like to store food in plastic, what are you doing? Stainless steel food storage containers (big ones) are incredibly expensive. Glass jars aren't big enough. Are you storing in plastic food buckets? Do you have another option?

I have about 30 gallon glass jars for smaller quantities. I also have half gallon and huge apothecary jars. My nephew works at a bakery and saves me the 5 gallon containers that syrup comes in w/ screw on lids, not buckets, these have a pour spout and work great for grains and things like that. I also have 5 gallon buckets. I would prefer not using plastic, but right now, cost is prohibitive. We also keep grains in their original bag in our chest freezer.

What about items that are significantly cheaper in bulk, but only come in plastic? Oils, vinegars, peanut butter, etc.

I leave these in the original container for the same reason as above.

If you eat an organic diet, would you stock up now with non-organic food to be able to have one year's worth of food stored quickly, or would you buy it organic over a longer period of time? For instance, I am thinking of items such as sugar and other items that have a significant premium when purchased organically. I will buy grains and beans organic.

Yes, I would stock up on some non-organic things. I would rather have the food non organic than not have it at all. I look at it this way, if it comes down to eating or not eating well, organic will take a backseat. That being said most of what I buy is organic, but I will be getting some things that are not... again for $$ reasons. There is no possible way I could afford to stock a years worth of organic foods for my family. If we don't end up needing it, I can donate it to families in need. I've done that several times before.

If you don't regularly eat canned foods, would you store them anyway, and work them into rotation? I could see us using canned pears, black olives, canned salmon, etc. but we never eat canned vegetables.

Again, same answer as above. We do use a few things in cans, mainly what you already listed except peaches instead of pears and add in tomato sauce. But I would store a few veggies just in case. I'm canning a ton though, so most of that will be covered.

Where are you storing your food. It occurs to me that a year's worth of food takes up a lot of space. My pantry certainly isn't big enough, I don't have a basement, and the garage may be too hot May through October. No under bed space (and really, 5 gallon food buckets don't fit under the bed anyway).

I have a good sized pantry, but not nearly this big. We could find places for it throughout the house, but I hate having things scattered like that, so I am strongly considering closing in our back porch. It is actually situated better than our current pantry, being right off the kitchen. It shouldn't be too expensive to do. We are also planning to build another root cellar (did this at our last house) and will probably try to get that done this summer.

How does your partner or significant other feel about food storage? Is s/he convinced of the need? Dh has been on board but I've never discussed having a full year's worth of all foods. Also, there is the idea that we don't have as great a need as if we were in financial trouble. We are likely to weather a recession well. Food shortages are another issue, of course.

My dh is very supportive of this, in part probably because he comes from a Mormon family, although he is not Mormon himself. I think he might think 1 year was a bit excessive, but probably only if I tried to do it all at once and it really pinched us financially. He is pretty open too.

Do you have a grain mill that can be operated without electricity? Do you have a reliable cooking method that doesn't rely on electricity or natural gas?

Yes, I have a Nutramill and a stainless steel hand grinder. We also have a woodstove and a wood cookstove. I could use it during winter for cooking and heating and in the summer, I can cook outside over a fire. I bought a grate that we place over the rocks the fire is built inside. It works well.

Well, that should get us started. I'll have to post some answers tomorrow.

:lol:

If you don't like to store food in plastic, what are you doing? Stainless steel food storage containers (big ones) are incredibly expensive. Glass jars aren't big enough. Are you storing in plastic food buckets? Do you have another option?

I do use plastic for things like flour. I guess I go by what I've read that storing things that aren't hot in plastic is ok. I do use glass jars for beans and such but like you said, they aren't big enough.

What about items that are significantly cheaper in bulk, but only come in plastic? Oils, vinegars, peanut butter, etc.

We don't use enough, oil, vinegar, or peanut butter to buy it in bulk so I just buy smaller containers, in glass if I can find them.

If you eat an organic diet, would you stock up now with non-organic food to be able to have one year's worth of food stored quickly, or would you buy it organic over a longer period of time? For instance, I am thinking of items such as sugar and other items that have a significant premium when purchased organically. I will buy grains and beans organic.

I think this is where I have trouble fully grasping the pantry principle. I would not store up with cheaper alternatives. I do buy up extra organic canned goods when I see them but I don't use a lot of canned goods so again, it makes it hard to stock up because they don't get used up anyway.... I do buy beans organic and sometimes grains. Part of our issue with storing food is that everyone hear eats a lot of raw fruits and veggies, you just can't stock up on that stuff.

If you don't regularly eat canned foods, would you store them anyway, and work them into rotation? I could see us using canned pears, black olives, canned salmon, etc. but we never eat canned vegetables.

The only canned goods we eat are tomato products (that I add to stews, soups etc) and black beans (my son loves black beans from a can-plain) I also buy canned pumpkin for breads. I generally stock up a bit if they are on sale.

Where are you storing your food. It occurs to me that a year's worth of food takes up a lot of space. My pantry certainly isn't big enough, I don't have a basement, and the garage may be too hot May through October. No under bed space (and really, 5 gallon food buckets don't fit under the bed anyway).

I store my canned goods in that spinny thing under the counter and most of my other stuff in my pantry closet.

How does your partner or significant other feel about food storage? Is s/he convinced of the need? Dh has been on board but I've never discussed having a full year's worth of all foods. Also, there is the idea that we don't have as great a need as if we were in financial trouble. We are likely to weather a recession well. Food shortages are another issue, of course.

Dh would really like for us to have more food on hand, I just really don't get how to do that. He always says that we would be in trouble if something happened because everything in our house is "fresh". I am just not sure what to do. Whenever I try to stock up, stuff ends up past expiration date, because I don't eat canned soup so when he wants to stock up on that it just sits for years.

Do you have a grain mill that can be operated without electricity? Do you have a reliable cooking method that doesn't rely on electricity or natural gas?

We have a grill outside we could use and no grain mill.

Well, that should get us started. I'll have to post some answers tomorrow.

Casaubon's Book: Casaubon’s Book » 2008 » March (http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/)

Really some amazing things there...I'm just starting to delve in. A friend on another board mentioned her blog in a post and I started reading and can't stop (except that I am working my heinie off and really have no time to sit and read right now). But, really good stuff there.

Lisa - on the fresh food thing - I freeze a lot. Berries, bananas, even kale (I use frozen kale in smoothies, it's delicious w/strawberry, banana and almond milk). I know if we didn't have electric and it were summer that would present some problems (but I have a brook in which to build at least refrigerated storage) but for me for now it works. Also you could can fresh veg and fruit to store for winter. We try to eat seasonally and for next winter I'd like to have most of our fruit and veg home canned to avoid eating beef, potatoes and root veg for 6 months straight.

Lauren, I've been reading her blog for well over a year now. I think I was reading it at least a year before the R4A started in June last year. I guess I never posted the link because it has primarily been a peak oil blog.

If you don't like to store food in plastic, what are you doing? Stainless steel food storage containers (big ones) are incredibly expensive. Glass jars aren't big enough. Are you storing in plastic food buckets? Do you have another option?

When you look at the calculators and see that a family of 4 should store 1200 pounds of flour/grain/pasta products, it becomes inconceivable to store in glass jars. At the same time, we are advised not to store them in the bags they come in (storage wheat may be another situation). So far we've been using food grade 5 gallon buckets with gamma seals. I have also read that heat is the biggest issue with plastic, so for now the food grade pails will have to do. Lehman's does sell "lard cans" for storage, at $16.95 for a container that holds 6.5 gallons.

We do have freezer space right now to freeze the grain for the recommended 24 hours kill any weevils.

What about items that are significantly cheaper in bulk, but only come in plastic? Oils, vinegars, peanut butter, etc.

What I mean is, olive oil is more expensive when purchased in glass or tins, vs. gallons at a time in plastic. I won't buy it in plastic as I don't want it to have been stored that way before it gets to me (or even worse, processed in the plastic). This is true of vinegars, peanut butter, etc. If I can buy in glass I do, even if it means paying more, and even though it means more packaging overall. I am particularly concerned about vinegar, which seems more likely to react with plastic.

If you eat an organic diet, would you stock up now with non-organic food to be able to have one year's worth of food stored quickly, or would you buy it organic over a longer period of time? For instance, I am thinking of items such as sugar and other items that have a significant premium when purchased organically. I will buy grains and beans organic.

I don't want to compromise. Right now I have about 45 pounds of honey, 12 pounds of Rapadura, and 1.5 gallons of maple syrup. However, I have immediate stock up of non-organic foods as part of my contingency plan should the indicators get worse.

If you don't regularly eat canned foods, would you store them anyway, and work them into rotation? I could see us using canned pears, black olives, canned salmon, etc. but we never eat canned vegetables.

We honestly don't eat much that is canned or jarred. A jar of spaghetti sauce every other month, jarred salsa, jarred peanut butter, canned pears (the only fruits I can eat are pears and dates, so I do buy the pears canned out of season). This would be a case of having to work them into our diets, because I don't want to store food we don't usually eat.

Food allergies and preferences play a role here. I am allergic to tomatoes; storing tomato products doesn't make much sense. We prefer local, in-season produce and we don't like the taste of canned vegetables. We don't buy canned soups or broths. We have 2 cans of "emergency" beans (meaning we'd use them to avoid eating out), but we all pretty much hate canned beans now that we've been eating them cooked at home for so long.

Where are you storing your food. It occurs to me that a year's worth of food takes up a lot of space. My pantry certainly isn't big enough, I don't have a basement, and the garage may be too hot May through October. No under bed space (and really, 5 gallon food buckets don't fit under the bed anyway).

Right now my food is in the pantry. I can easily store 100 - 200 pounds of grains in there, and 100 pounds of beans, but again, that comes no where near a year's worth of food. I have room for the sweeteners, oils, etc. My thought on this is to eventually devote an indoor closet to food storage, or to create more food storage if we remodel the laundry room.

How does your partner or significant other feel about food storage? Is s/he convinced of the need? Dh has been on board but I've never discussed having a full year's worth of all foods. Also, there is the idea that we don't have as great a need as if we were in financial trouble. We are likely to weather a recession well. Food shortages are another issue, of course.

I brought it up last night. DH is fine with storing food, but he doesn't see storing a full year's worth. He pointed out that we almost always eat fresh foods, which is true, but which might not be as feasible during a food shortage or an electrical crisis. It's not like we can hunt and hang deer outside for the winter (southern California).

I think we came to a decision to stock more of the oils that store well (olive oil store well, surprisingly), to buy more canned salmon and jarred peanut butter, and most of all to evaluate the storage calculator recommendations to meet our needs.

Do you have a grain mill that can be operated without electricity? Do you have a reliable cooking method that doesn't rely on electricity or natural gas?

I thought I really didn't need a mill, since we are GF. However, grains store for longer periods of time if they are left whole and not ground into flour or meal before storage. For instance, dent corn for making masa stores better than masa harina. Oat groats store better than flakes or steel cut oats. So I am mulling the need for this.

As for cooking, DH pointed out that I currently have about 10 gallons of propane in tanks, which when all are full would be about 15 gallons. I have a burner on the grill, and the grill itself. I have a camp stove, which would need an inexpensive converter to run off the big propane tank vs. the disposable tanks. I have a grill/griddle that runs the same way. With a longer term lack of electricity we'd probably set up the trailer; that would give me a 3 burner stove and an oven, plus minimal hot water, and heat from our supplemental propane only (no blower) heater.. We may purchase a few more propane tanks as reserve fuel. We also really like our cast iron hibachi, so I'll store more charcoal that we do now. I have a steel washing machine tub to use as a fire pit (on concrete), so I think I'll get a good, footed dutch oven. A sun oven is another good option for us, but is dependent on weather so I wouldn't choose it as my only source.

Checking her archives, Lauren, I started reading Sharon's blog some time in 2006. I clearly recall camping with friends that June and my friend and I found we were both already fans of Sharon.

Lauren, I've been reading her blog for well over a year now. I think I was reading it at least a year before the R4A started in June last year. I guess I never posted the link because it has primarily been a peak oil blog.

Cool! I just had no idea. :) I just found out about it. I have to check back in with my friend about how she knows her.

KimberMama wrote:

[quoteWhat I mean is, olive oil is more expensive when purchased in glass or tins, vs. gallons at a time in plastic. I won't buy it in plastic as I don't want it to have been stored that way before it gets to me (or even worse, processed in the plastic). This is true of vinegars, peanut butter, etc. If I can buy in glass I do, even if it means paying more, and even though it means more packaging overall. I am particularly concerned about vinegar, which seems more likely to react with plastic.[/quote]

I'm able to buy it in bulk at my co-op in large quantities from the bulk dispenser. If I really wanted to buy the quantity you're talking about I think it would come in tins and be less expensive. I have to check w/the co-op.

You know, reading your reply - no way would we store or eat 1200 pounds of flour/pasta/grain products. How does gluten free factor in to your plans?

I think also, reading your reply - I'm not talking about storing a year's worth of food. I really shouldn't have replied! You're talking on a whole other scale. My focus has been building up a reasonable pantry in all areas - maybe a 3-month supply. I think I'd be scared to have a year's worth of food, all the management, the rotation, the storage issues. I'm not quite ready for that yet. I'm focusing more on being able to create as much of our food as possible on our own land, and preserving it all.