I didn't want to use the word "Depression" but when headlines say things like "since the 1930s" - not a good sign.

We're in for some serious troubling times. What are you doing to get through? How are you retooling your financial plan? Or are you all set and just holding tight to status quo to get through?

Just thought it would be interesting to discuss. Dh and I are in the process of asking ourselves these questions.

Putting off large expenses if we can. Saving as much as possible. We have savings to fall back on, so we are not too worried about our future. We are going to be careful though.

We're holding tight. We still have 25+ years until retirement. I am saving a lot of $$, but I think we're going to be ok.

Mostly, I"m trying to be smart, but not fearful. Fear is part of the problem.

play ignorant :lol:

I am not sure much will really change for us. What are you worried about specifically? Am I missing something?

I'm talking about things like this:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/03/17/oil/

walk
use candles
use the fireplace

i honestly do not know what we CAN do about it or how to prepare. not trying to be snarky or anything. I only skimmed the article but will go back and read it whe things are quiet.

Not taking it as snarky, don't worry. I don't mean to freak people out or anything! I figured it wasn't news to this board...

Just trying to keep on keeping on. We're making adjustments where we can - I spent $300 at the grocery store on Saturday! Sheesh!

But, I agree with the fear sentiment. There's not a whole lot we CAN do right now, in our position, so we'll just continue keeping our heads above water to the point that we can over here.

The refi will help - if someone would ever call us the frick back :vent:
sorry.

Well I am hoping and praying my dh will hang onto his current job for as long as possible. He is tenured and can't be fired unless he punches someone in the face and they may even overlook that LOL. If he keeps his current position, we'll be fine, otherwise, I'll be very concerned. I feel so bad for him, he's been in school for 3 years and is finally at the end doing an internship to change careers and now a recession--it just stinks for him but selfishly I want him to keep his current job with great benefits and steady paycheck with no overtime or nights or weekends *sigh*

Living in a pos on the cheap.;)

I'm going to read the article and come back. :)

We've talked about it on this board before...the end of oil. The eventual decline of Americans' standard of living. Maybe I'm getting a little too spring feverish ;) but I keep trying to think about investing in animals - whether that makes sense or not knowing I'm going to have to buy hay for winter. Do I try to grow/raise a ton of different things, or specialize in one thing and trade with people? How do I strengthen local networks? What *is* local that we can get, and what's needed?

Now to go find that tin foil hat...;)

~ Stay put. Part of me thinks we should sell low, take the equity, and go mortgage free somewhere else. But it means leaving a good job with a stable company, and having 14 years there rather than being new on the totem pole. Also, we are set up now for car lite living, with only one car. Overall I think job security is probably more important than being mortgage free.

~ Another part of staying put: our families are here. Should things get really terrible it is easier to combine households when we aren't living across the country.

~ On the car lite issue, we will start making the change to walkable/bicycle-accessible health care providers. Already all groceries and the CSA pick up are accessible by bike or foot. Library, mail, and credit union are accessible by foot. Friends and parks are accessible via walking or bike.

~ Buy more staple foods. I'm going to figure out a year's worth of grains and beans, oils, etc. and make bulk purchases. I have some, but not enough.

~ Garden. We're doing this, but should step it up and add more growing space. I also should look ahead and purchase more open-pollinated seed.

~ CSA share has been purchased.

~ Purchase our side of beef very soon. We think we have found a local supplier for humane and sustainable beef to save the transportation costs.

~ Have a serious talk about our 401K investments and how they should be allocated. Decide on taking a loss now to move things into safer funds, or riding it out (we're 15 - 25 years from retirement depending on whether or not we want DH to retire early).

~ Save, save, save . . . except for durable goods purchases that contribute to overall savings (economic and energy savings).

~ Decide on any major purchases: guitars for the boys, etc. Buy myself good long underwear and a really good winter jacket.

~ Put all the skills we've been working on for years into practice.

~ Continue community building.

~ Try to relax. It feels really good to know that we have simplified our lives and are happy with each other, and that we have prepared for this in many ways.

Ours so far:

*bigger garden and create root storage for winter
*meat birds
*buy side of beef from folks we did last year
*sell eggs to the school and co-op to pay for some animal costs

One other idea is to invest in a motorcycle (LOL but hear dh out ;) ) - a clean emissions, 4-cylinder, 2-seater-in-a-pinch small bike with large knobby wheels for our crazy roads (it is NOT a dirt bike) with storage on it for groceries - we (he) could do all our shopping/trading within a short radius and get 70+ mpg, for a relatively small investment up front ($1-2k). He does have a point...even for us to go to our local country store is $2 per trip in gas. I said not until the emergency fund is built up to a very comfortable level.

Also seriously considering whether we need to add on to the house at all, but we'll just save save save and can always decide what to do with that $ when we have it. For now, waiting, for sure.

We're staying put too. We both have job security, me for 3-4 years, dh indefinitely (though he doesn't like what he's doing as much as he feels he should).

I also feel pressure to teach K & J gardening, animal care, and canning/preserving skills. Also cooking. So, we'll focus on having them help more this season.

Kimberly, you made some great points. I'm envious of your ability to walk everywhere.:) I can barely walk to my mailbox, it's 2 roads away.;)

Lauren, I'm glad you mentioned the part about your kids. That's something that I haven't given a lot of thought to. I feel pretty good about my skills but I need to pass them along to our kids. Thanks for listing that.:)

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, especially when GWB kept saying "naaaah, our economy is fine...". Right. Now he's saying we're screwed and their's not much the fed can do about it. Excellent!

It is up to us. The fed won't change things. In our family we're going to continue to scrutinize each purchase. Save. Plan wisely. Pay off debt. All those things we're already doing but with a smidge more intensity.

It feels so political to me, I'm trying not to hop on my soapbox;).

i guess things we are planning on doing soon are going to help but we aren;t doing them b/c of a recession.

we are hoping to get our CSA share with an egg share, a side of meat from a local farm (need to get a freezer) and look for someone to buy some cords of wood from.

Lauren - I looked for a "The Sky is Falling" smiley just to be silly (NOT to insult you!).

I ended up finding these by accident and thought of you. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Shiksa/smilies/shakemoto_humpy77.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Shiksa/smilies/Ooops_by_humpy77.gif

I'm putting off purchasing big ticket items (new fence that would be prettier but I have an old one that works, etc).

I am going to add work hours next Fall.

I am not letting my oldest take a car to college with him. He will have to take transit or not leave the dorm.

Times like these, I am thankful DH is in the military. He can't lose his job and we'll always have a paycheck, housing and medical insurance. Who knows what the next few months hold for us though. We are moving to a place neither of us has ever been before.

we'll be buying a house by August. That will fix our payment and not make us depend on our landlord for things.

David is applying to higher paying jobs that require much less driving.

The CSA share is in place. We will also have a full garden and we save seeds.

We'll get chickens whe we get the house, not just for eggs for us, but so we have something to barter with.

Put in a woodstove when we get the house. We'll have some trees of our own, and we will stock cords of wood.

We are storing food bigtime. The freezer will be full, the shelves full of cans.

We'll be moving to a walkable tiny town. we'll only have to drive to get to/from work.

Part of the whole deal was moving here in the first place. A huge buy local movement, many farms, green living, etc. These people are ready!

Adn we'll just live with less. I can save so much more $$ now each month w/ my raise and the lower cost of living.

Have to decide how much of the savings to put into the house purchase. A bigger downpayment would keep the payment nice and low, but we'd lose our cushion/emergency fund to some extent. Still thinking on that one.

Right now my hubby's job is very secure. I think he would be let go only if the company went belly up.

My hubby and I have discussed a depression and we are working on ways to save while lowering our debt.
I (hold tight I'm going to toot my horn here) have done a phenomenal job at lowering HIS debt(I came to my marriage with NO DEBT)
Our biggest debt right now is his second mortgage and our medical bills from ds #2.

If I had my way I would use our entire tax refund to lower those bills to practically zero but my hubby would have a coronary. He's one of those people who feel entitled to use their credit cards because he worked hard this week blah blah blah.

My concerns are mostly for some people I know. My ex has been somewhat unemployed since last year(Boy do I want to get on a soapbox right this minute.):vent:
I have a relative who has a job that doesn't pay well and if she doesn't find something quickly she might lose her home.

We will continue to be frugal. I will continue to say no to a new car,new purchases and trips that are not necessary. It's an uphill battle in my home but I can always use the exercise.:lol:

Elsie - where are you now? You can PM me if you like.

I forgot about that - we are going to try to cut our own wood for next winter. We are still working on the truckload from two autumns ago - pretty good, heating the whole house on $600 for two years. (plus a lot of work) But this year we're thinking w/the tractor we can cut wood and transport it more easily; we have tons of trees that need to be thinned. And a bunch of ash in the area where the electric company wants to clear to put new poles.

On the down payment/cushion thing - if I had to do it over I'd put less down and have more flexibility with $ in the bank.

I don't think we are headed into a depression.

What I DO think we are very much headed into is a CHANGE and honestly, it needs to happen. The whole over consumption, disregard to the environment, financed lifestyle thing... it does need to change. It is not substainable.

There needs to be a shift back to, working, saving, paying your way as you go, not having so MUCH of everything.

Lauren - I looked for a "The Sky is Falling" smiley just to be silly (NOT to insult you!).

I ended up finding these by accident and thought of you. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Shiksa/smilies/shakemoto_humpy77.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Shiksa/smilies/Ooops_by_humpy77.gif

:hahaha: Those are very cute.

LatteLover - I agree, but I think it's going to be messy. Not so much for the folks who frequent this board, but for the average American? Probably. And for some it's hitting hard already - with foreclosures, job losses, job cutbacks, etc.

Yep, I agree... things ARE very messy. They have been messy for years. Just depends on your perspective.

In the back of my head, I am constantly worried about the what ifs..
not much I can do in a rental. I am so not in a financial situation to buy anything.

So I do what little I can. Make do with what we have, plant a container garden, no tv channels, so there is much much less of wanting, I have a fireplace, so maybe I will stock up on some wood for next winter (in case it gets so bad that my central heat doesn't work).

What I would love is a house of my own, with a grey water system. Keep fields and meadows watered and out of fire hazard zones (lots of fires around here).

I am in the process of looking at different cars, because mine is just not worth the money I sink into it to keep it running, as well as getting maybe 15 miles per gallon.

I will continue squirreling away clothes for my kids, buying bathroom supplies when on sale, as well as buying bulk grocery items when on sale....

Mostly what I am trying to do is what I do anyway, but with a little more focus.

I'm going to try to put up a canner full of food everyday, even if it is only dried beans. It's manageable that way and will add up significantly.

We'll keep adding to savings, although maybe a little faster. :o)

I want to pay down and eventually off our house.

We are investing in garden boxes for raised beds this year for the lower half of our field garden. That will make that area much more efficient. I think we'll have 45 ten foot by 4 foot beds there. Garden extensively!!

We will sell extra animals and stock up on hay.

Work to reduce our electric and water bills.

Stock our pantry well.

I have a few purchases that we really need that we may go ahead and make. My stove has been on the blink for more than a year now and is totally inadequate for our family size. We also need an upright freezer, so I may get those in the next several months.

I'll stock up on canning lids and invest in some more jars.

Raise some meat birds for the freezer. Our steer will be ready for the freezer this fall, so that will help. As soon as he is gone, I'd like to get another to start growing in his place.

Stock up on firewood over the summer again. We are running low finally. Also cut a stash of the smaller sizes we need for my wood cookstove.

We just invested in 4 huge rolls of stock fencing to fence in our orchard and some new pasture. That will provide more grass (less feed) for the animals to eat. So buying t-posts and putting that up are in the near plans.

Continue decluttering and selling un-needed items.

I'd like to stock up on thread, elastic and a few other notions for sewing.

Get some meds and supplements stocked for my dd who has Crohns Disease.

I'm sure I will come up with more, but that is it for now.

This is a great thread. It is a sharing of info and ideas which is exactly what pulled people through the depression. I'm not saying that we are headed for a depression, just that it never hurts to be prepared. None of this will be wasted if nothing happens, we'll just have a little more money to put into paying off the house. :)

On another note, I have some great books about the depression that I LOVE to read. They are inspiring and just really neat books to read with a wealth of info. In case anyone is interested here are the titles.

We had everything but Money.
Good Old Days Remembers Working On The Farm
Good Old Days I'll Be Home For Christmas
The Best years Of Our Lives

All 4 are published by The House Of White Birches.

Aileen

I'm talking about things like this:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/03/17/oil/

Could someone copy and paste this article here. I can't get in to read it.

Thanks!

Aileen

Our "black Monday" for oil

The record high price of crude that was hit this month reflects the new reality of global energy consumption -- and may presage dark times for America.
By Michael T. Klare

Mar. 17, 2008 | On Monday, March 3, the price of crude oil reached $103.95 per barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing the record set nearly 30 years ago during another moment of chaos in the Middle East. Will that new mark prove distinctive in the annals of world history or will it be forgotten as energy prices drop, just as they did following their April 1980 peak?

When oil costs are plotted over time, the 1980 oil crisis -- prompted by Ayatollah Khomeini's Iranian revolution -- stands out as a sharp spike on that price curve. Both before and after that moment, however, oil supplies proved largely sufficient to meet rising global demand, in part because the Saudis and other major producers were capable of compensating for declining Iranian production. They simply increased their output substantially, dumping a surplus of oil onto the global market. Aided by the development of new fields in Alaska and the North Sea, prices dropped precipitously and stayed low through the 1990s (except for a brief spike following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in August 1990).

Nothing similar is likely to happen now. For the present surge in prices -- crude oil costs have risen by 74 percent over the past year -- no easy solution is in sight. To begin with, we face not a sudden spike, but the results of a steady, relentless climb that began in 2002 and shows no signs of abating; nor can this rise be attributed to a single, chaos-causing factor in the energy business or in global politics. It is instead the product of multiple factors endemic to energy production and characteristic of the current era. There is no prospect of their vanishing anytime soon.

Three factors, in particular, are responsible for the current surge: intensifying competition for oil between the older industrial powers and rising economic dynamos like China and India; the inability of the global energy industry to expand supplies to keep pace with growing demand; and intensifying instability in the major oil-producing areas.

The crucial role of the developing economic dynamos in Asia on the global energy market was already evident as this century dawned. With their phenomenal rates of growth, these countries must have more oil (and other forms of energy) to power their expanding industries, fuel their new cars and trucks, and satisfy the aspirations of their burgeoning middle classes. According to the U.S. Department of Energy, combined oil demand from China and India, already at 8.9 million barrels per day in 2004, is expected to hit 12.1 million barrels by 2010 and 15.5 million barrels by 2020. These are staggering rises. If you include anticipated consumption by Brazil, Mexico, South Korea and other rapidly industrializing nations, demand from the developing world is expected truly to soar.

To this tsunami of new energy needs must be added an already high level of consumption by the mature industrial powers led by the United States, the European Union and Japan. This shows little sign of lessening, which means we face an unprecedented surge in the total demand for oil. According to the Department of Energy, combined world oil consumption, which reached 83.7 million barrels per day in 2006, is projected to hit 90.7 million barrels in 2010 and 103.7 million in 2020. We're talking about an increase of 20 million barrels per day in just 15 years. To achieve this would require a mammoth, unbelievably costly effort on the part of the world's giant oil companies (and their lenders and government backers) -- and even then it might not be possible.

American consumers, facing painful prices at the gas pump, are, at the moment, being further punished by the fact that most global oil transactions are denominated in dollars. Given the declining value of the dollar relative to other currencies, we wind up paying more per barrel than competitors who can convert their euros, yen or other strong currencies into dollars before bidding against us on the international energy market. Global investors, sensing the trend, are dumping the dollar for these other currencies or buying oil futures, only adding to the slide of the U.S. currency and the rising price of crude.

Lurking behind soaring demand is another crisis entirely -- a crisis of production. The energy industry is now in the difficult process of transitioning from a world of easily tapped oil supplies to one in which mainly tough-oil options prevail. Those "easy-oil" supplies are the ones we've long been familiar with: the giant petroleum reservoirs in friendly, stable countries that provided most of the world's oil during the formative years of the Petroleum Age, stretching from the late 19th century until the Arab oil embargo of 1973.

These mammoth reservoirs include Ghawar in Saudi Arabia, Burgan in Kuwait, and Cantarell in Mexico -- monster fields that produce hundreds of thousands or even millions of barrels of crude per day. In the last quarter-century, however, discoveries of "elephant" fields like these have been almost nonexistent. The world is, as a result, becoming increasingly dependent on smaller fields, often in remote, unwelcoming locations that require far more expense to develop and bring online. This, too, is adding to the price of oil.

As an illustration of this trend, take Kashagan, a giant oil field discovered in 2000 in Kazakhstan's sector of the Caspian Sea. It represents the single largest discovery worldwide in the past 40 years. Although it does harbor significant reserves of oil and gas, the field poses staggering challenges to the international consortium of energy companies attempting to develop it. It contains, for example, high concentrations of poisonous hydrogen sulfide gas, which makes its development using conventional (and cheaper) production technology impossible. Development costs to bring the field online have already soared from an estimated $57 billion to $135 billion with no end in sight. In the meantime, the projected date for the start-up of production at Kashagan has been continually pushed back. Once expected to come online in 2005, it's now slated for 2011 at the earliest. This, in turn, has led a frustrated Kazakh government to demand that the state-owned KazMunaiGaz energy company be given a larger stake in the field's operating consortium.

Most of the other big discoveries of recent years -- the "Jack" field in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico, the Doba field in Chad, fields off Russia's Sakhalin Island, and the Tupi field in the deep Atlantic off Brazil -- exhibit similar characteristics. They are either far offshore and difficult to develop or entail problematic relationships with unreliable governments -- or, worse yet, some combination of the two. You can essentially do the math yourself when it comes to the future cost of oil produced at such sites.

So here's the really bad news at the pump, so to speak: The inability of the global energy industry to keep pace with rising demand is only likely to become more pronounced as, in the years ahead, the world reaches maximum sustainable daily petroleum output and commences what just about all energy experts now agree will be an irreversible decline. No one can be sure when exactly this will occur, but a growing chorus of specialists believes that we are moving ever closer to that moment of "peak" oil output -- with some specialists placing it as soon as 2010-12.

Finally, let's not forget that the equivalent of the Iranian Revolution of 1980 remains with us. The oil heartlands of the planet are increasingly in crisis and the price of oil is regularly driven up by that as well. Iraq, with the world's second largest reserves of petroleum, is convulsed by war. Nigeria, a major supplier to the United States and Europe, has experienced a significant reduction in output recently due to ethnic violence in the oil-rich Niger Delta region. Venezuela's production has fallen because many anti-Chavez oil technocrats have been purged from the state-owned oil monopoly PdVSA. Iran's output has suffered as a result of the economic sanctions imposed by the United States. Political violence, corruption and state interference in the energy sector have also led to depressed output in Chad, Mexico, Russia and Sudan.

At one time, the world's major oil producers could compensate for a downturn in output in any area by ramping up production from the "spare" (or reserve) capacity at their disposal. This was critical in 1990, following Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, and again in 2001, following the terrorist attacks of 9/11. Both times, Saudi Arabia simply upped production, adding hundreds of thousands of barrels per day in spare capacity, thereby averting a catastrophic energy crisis in the United States. But the Saudis and the other members of OPEC no longer possess significant spare capacity. They're pumping oil for all they're worth in order to benefit from the current surge in prices. Hence, any sudden loss of production in conflict-torn areas translates quickly into rising prices.

Can we expect the levels of conflict in oil-producing regions to subside sooner or later, bringing prices down? Unfortunately, this is a wholly unrealistic prospect because oil production itself increasingly acts as a goad to conflict. While extracting petroleum generates enormous wealth for privileged elites, it leaves others in many countries, usually of a different ethnic or religious identity, with few benefits from the resource in their midst. Take the Niger Delta area, where ethnic minorities continue to fight to obtain a larger share of oil revenues that historically have been monopolized by elites in the distant national capital, Abuja. The Kurds in Iraq have similarly been struggling to take control over the oil revenues generated by the giant fields in portions of that war-ravaged country they claim. This threatens to turn the oil-producing city of Kirkuk, in particular, into a future battleground.

While no one can predict just where the next conflicts will break out over the allocation of oil revenues or the control of valuable oil fields, it is safe to predict that such conflicts will remain an abiding, price-hiking feature of the global political landscape. Instability is now not only the norm, but spreading in these areas, and high oil prices are an inevitable corollary.

The bottom line: Oil prices are high today, not due to a temporary disruption in the global flow of petroleum as in 1980, but for systemic reasons that are, if anything, becoming more pronounced. This means news headlines with the phrase "record oil price" are likely to be commonplace for a long time to come. The only good news may lie in just how bad the news really is. Sooner or later, ever rising energy costs are likely to push the United States and other oil-consuming nations into deep recession, thus depressing demand and possibly beginning to bring energy prices down. But this is hardly a recipe for lower prices that anyone would voluntarily choose.

What, then, will be the lasting consequences of higher energy costs? For the ordinary American consumer the answer is simple, if grim: A diminished quality of life, as discretionary expenses disappear in the face of higher costs for transportation, home heating, and electricity, not to speak of basics like food (for which, from fertilizers to packaging, oil is a necessity). For the poor and elderly, the implications are dire: In some cases, it will undoubtedly mean choosing among heat in winter, adequate nutrition and medicine.

Finally, there are the implications for the United States as a whole. Because the U.S. relies on petroleum for approximately 40 percent of its total energy supply, and because nearly two-thirds of its crude oil must be imported, this country will be forced to devote an ever-increasing share of its national wealth to energy imports. If oil remains at or above the $100 per barrel mark in 2008, and, as expected, the United States imports some 4.75 billion barrels of the stuff, the net outflow of dollars is likely to be in the range of $475 billion. This will constitute the largest single contribution to America's balance-of-payments deficit and will surely prove a major factor in the continuing erosion of the dollar.

The principal recipients of petro-dollars -- the major oil-producing states of the Persian Gulf, the former Soviet Union and Latin America -- will undoubtedly use their accumulating wealth to purchase big chunks of prime American assets or, as in the case of Hugo Chavez of Venezuela or the Saudi princes, pursue political aims inconsistent with American foreign policy objectives. America's vaunted status as the world's "sole superpower" will prove increasingly ephemeral as new "petro-superpowers" -- a term coined by Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana -- come to dominate the geopolitical landscape.

So, while March 3 may have only briefly made the headlines here, it may well be remembered as the true "black Monday" of our new century, the moment when energy costs became the decisive factor in the balance of global economic power.

This piece originally appeared on TomDispatch.org.

hth :)

haven't read the thread yet, but honestly the first thing that comes to mind is that I don't read/watch things that focus on a 'depression' or 'recession'. I've always thought of the econ. as a cyclical thing and we'll just continue to walk the path of using things mindfully, making our income in varied and innovative ways... you know the drill.

~jo

Buy all our clothes & shoes at yard sales. I buy things for Mani sized way in advance and store them so I can just pull out all the 6 y.o. pants when he needs them. Same for shoes. All we buy new is (some) socks and underwear.

Buy produce at farmer's market in season, buy other produce that is seasonal and bountiful during the cold months. Buy meat in bulk; hunt more.

I do think we're already in a recession. A lot of it I blame on the reach of corporate America exceeding its grasp. A lot of it I blame on confidence and security issues in the economy, but I do think it could rebound post-election regardless of who wins. A fresh start (however minimal, considering politics) could help...

Times like these, I am thankful DH is in the military. He can't lose his job and we'll always have a paycheck, housing and medical insurance. Who knows what the next few months hold for us though. We are moving to a place neither of us has ever been before.

That's what we thought in the Air Force, though. DH did lose his job. :(

BUT... I'm thinking the Army... nahhhh.... they wouldn't force people out unless they were REALLY bad slackers and screw ups, right?

I used to have that complete secure feeling with dh being military, but ever since he was cut by the Air Force, I just don't have the confidence I used to have.

My biggest thing is to get rid of our debt. We're in limbo right now with that because we need to purchase a new to us minivan since our lease is up in June. I'm saving all I can from now until then so I can have a smaller payment. After that I'm taking all the money I can and paying down debt.

Other than that I'm trying to keep my pantry stocked up when sales come up. I would like to use more local foods and will be using my local farmer's market often.

I think dh's job is pretty secure. His company is stable. He sells most of his products to medical companies and I don't see them going anywhere.

Right now our plan is to stay put and keep swimmin'

Put on your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

Being in a field that doesn't change much (police work) is helping. We will not be as effected as those with other types of jobs... or at least, not effected first. We are pretty set up in that area.

I always think back to what a friend said when dealing with issues of having to be frugal. "Financial freedom does not come from having money, it comes from not needing it."

The sad reality is that this country couldn't last in it's frantic race to keep up with the joneses... everything has been saying this has been coming for a long time. Decreasing job availibility, increased housing costs, and increased food costs caused by damaged crops because of wanting to produce so much that we have lost sight of what the land can really take. It hasn't been a short process to get here, and I doubt it will be a short process to get out of it. I think it will get worse before it gets better.

In my world, I am trying as hard as I can to live a local, and selfsustainable lifestyle. My chickens, garden, farmers market bartering, sewing skills... etc. All are helpful and make me feel as though we can make just about anything work if we have to (or some day, even just because we can).

Val

Do I try to grow/raise a ton of different things, or specialize in one thing and trade with people? How do I strengthen local networks? What *is* local that we can get, and what's needed?

For me, I know the answer. I would never (not even with land) be able to have all my own animals and do everything I would require to handle, care, slaughter, and butcher them. So I would buy from others, and trade for what I can with work, time, energy, and some goods I can create like clothing, quilts, etc. My husband has a good city job (mentioned before) so it would take a ton for him to loose it, and for that I am grateful. Also, I am grateful in other ways for that job. It took a lot of time and hardship for us to get here. And here isn't all that great, but comparitivily, we are living high on the hog. So knowing that with this recession we may stay here for quite a while... well, we are ok with that. ;)

I saved money back from our income taxes. So we can pay our house off in Aug08 (instead of Feb09). I know I could just leave it in savings and it is only a few months. But it makes me feel better knowing the house will be paid for soon.

Dh only got a 50cent raise this year, instead of the $1 he had been getting. They already said no raise next year at all and are talking about dropping his health insurance. (they pay his) Boss says the income right now isn't good. So we are worried about his job.... right now it is only dh and another guy that isn't the boss or his son..... so if it comes down to it the boss and his son could do the work. ykwim
Dh does heating and air... so if things slow down for them,it will probably just has bad at the other places he could work too.

But while his raise went down, everything we are having to buy keeps going up.

We have decided to stay put for a while longer. We have a small garden that we want to expand. I've been putting the "chickens" bug in dh's ear & now *he's* decided that once we have a proper fence, we need to get some.

I would like to put a new roof on the house, for some reason that makes me feel more secure.

Moving the girls schools so that they are closer to home (less gas).

Dh recently got a education degree (although he's not using it right now), but I think that in the case of a depression it will be a good option to have. Currently he works in banking with folks who are suddenly realizing that they can't keep financing things to keep up with the jones. While it's not his ideal job, I think it has been good to open his eyes that the reason it seems everyone else has more than him is because they bought it on credit.

We were desperately poor when we had dd1 & while I don't want to go back that way we survived. While we are doing well compared to back then, we still go without a lot of things that folks today feel are neccessities.

I don't think we are headed into a depression.

What I DO think we are very much headed into is a CHANGE and honestly, it needs to happen. The whole over consumption, disregard to the environment, financed lifestyle thing... it does need to change. It is not substainable.

There needs to be a shift back to, working, saving, paying your way as you go, not having so MUCH of everything.

:agreed:

Huray for sanity making a comeback!

We've rearranged savings and retirement accounts. Sawyer's job is mostly safe, but I don't think mine could survive long.
We can do without my income though, so we're not terribly worried.
I do think things are going to get much worse before they get better.

Well, I blame you, Lauren. I had just placed an order from a small toystore in a not-too-distant city who would be able to ship in time for Easter without some ridiculous price. $98 worth. I canceled it. I have candy coming, I have some aerocopters (you know, sticks with copter blades), I asked DH to pick up jelly beans and whoppers (awful, but I love whoppers, and DH had a mini-meltdown last year when he discovered I had not included jelly beans in our Easter baskets).:p

I have a Kleen Kanteen for baby Reagan. I also asked DH to get a rocket kit that we could all work on together.

Our Easters were always very simple when I was a kid--we got candy, and we got to hunt for it. That's enough.

Sooo, honestly, I have been living in a complete bubble, and, despite the fact that DH is an online news junkie, we have had no conversations about this. DH is an industrial salesman, BTW. We can pray that as things become impossible to get from foreign countries, people will start creating industry to produce things we need here (things we really need, I mean). And, hopefully, DH's job will stay. I have faith,though,that if things got really bad, my parents have about 80 acres of farmland. My dad is an attorney with a horticulture degree and farmed for most of my childhood. So, honestly, we could find ways for all of us to get by, even if we were placed off-grid.

Thinking reasonably, assuming things really stay much the same, aside from having to do with much less, I can do that. We recently bought a cow share, and I've already made ice cream and butter and sour cream. I have a grain mill, so I already buy grains in bulk. The only problem is the farm is about 20 miles from here. It is only 7 miles from DH's work, so if gas prices get really high, I can, perhaps convince him to pick up, and I have the number of another woman in my town with whom I might be able to trade pick ups.

Make sure to hit neighborhood garage sales this spring and summer for optimum gas-savings and shopping (the neigborhood sales here are incredible!). Look,especially, for high quality clothing for the eldest boy and girl since they will be passed down.

We just paid off our van, so we want to do our best to keep it in good condition.

We must continue to pay down our debt. Find ways to make this house work for us as long as possible instead of focusing on buying land and building.

Fix the pump (we have to use city water for our home, but we can use the pump for the lawn). Plant the garden I am feeling so wishy-washy about. Teach my children about gardening, cooking from scratch, preserving foods. Get fruit and veggies from the farmer's market and local farms and u-picks. We can be thankful that though we live near a fairly big city, this is a farming area with lots to offer.

Consider cutting our blow money. Or use it to buy the sewing machine I keep saying I'm going to get. I already know how to sew, quite well, actually. I have a cheap, poorly maintained serger too. It works. I should have it cleaned and tuned.

Refocus on keeping things simple. I have moments (like earlier today, when I spent $98 on, yes, lovely, open-ended,well-constructed toys, but $98 of lovely, open-ended, well-constructed toys my kids don't need). Make gifts for everyone we have to give gifts. I just bought yarn and am learning to loom knit--I will make dishcloths for Mother's Day.

Work on creating emergency stash (maybe use some of that $98).

Oh, and I teach, so maybe that's a help if industrial salesmen aren't needed.;)

[QUOTE=Kbsmama;2887663]
Consider cutting our blow money. .
QUOTE]

You know, mama, blow costs a LOT of money....

:lol: excuse my sick sense of humor.

[QUOTE=Kbsmama;2887663]
Consider cutting our blow money. .
QUOTE]

You know, mama, blow costs a LOT of money....

:lol: excuse my sick sense of humor.

:lol: I actually considered changing that when I wrote it because I thought it sounded bad. Pfft.

See I don't see overconsumption ending anytime soon. I run errands near a Best Buy and I swear, people are lined up at the door when it opens, they come out of there with a cart full of technology! I also see more Hummers on the road now than I ever have. The houses that are being built locally are all "luxury" homes that start in the $700's I mean I don't know where people are getting their money from!!!

See I don't see overconsumption ending anytime soon. I run errands near a Best Buy and I swear, people are lined up at the door when it opens, they come out of there with a cart full of technology! I also see more Hummers on the road now than I ever have. The houses that are being built locally are all "luxury" homes that start in the $700's I mean I don't know where people are getting their money from!!!

Well, a lot of people finance that lifestyle and the fact is, the days of easy financing are about to be over imo.

I mean, I think it is telling when you see people replying (not in this thread specifically but generally to this)... Recession coming (which I think is false, it is here)... "we are going to spend less, save more, and pay off our debt..."

Everyone should do that, recession or not...

Most of these changes will happen for next school since dh and I are both in public education. Here is what we are doing:

1. I'll be moving from part-time work to full-time work. (outside the home)

2. We also are changing jobs to ones much closer to where we live to save on fuel. (going from a total of 100 mile a day commute to an expected 20 mile a day commute)

3. Bigger garden this summer.

We will bump our emergency savings up from Ramseys suggested $1,000 to quite a bit more. We'll also be continuing on the debt-snowballing........

We should be very fortunate since our income should be going up once we factor in the gas savings. (and my working full-time) This is even with dh expecting to be getting a lower salary at the new job. (we are 99% sure which school district we will both be at....but don't have contract-in-hand quite yet)

Michelle

I mean, I think it is telling when you see people replying (not in this thread specifically but generally to this)... Recession coming (which I think is false, it is here)... "we are going to spend less, save more, and pay off our debt..."

Everyone should do that, recession or not...

I agree with this completely.

I consider moving towards being more self-reliant a better way to buffer ourselves from a depression.

I really don't see this changing what we do a whole lot. We have been frugal and have lived fairly simply our whole married lives. We will just continue to snowball debt, put some money into savings and still be conscious about our purchases.

I mean, I think it is telling when you see people replying (not in this thread specifically but generally to this)... Recession coming (which I think is false, it is here)... "we are going to spend less, save more, and pay off our debt..."

Everyone should do that, recession or not...

:agreed:
With dh losing his job in January and me being a student and SAHM, the recession has hit my family directly. It is not coming...it is already here! So, our plans we put in place for the last 10 years is helping us weather this storm.

It is too late if you haven't already saved or cut back or reduced debt. If you have a job loss or reduction due to the recession, it is much easier to adjust if you plan ahead.

Our plans have changed a bit, but I can not imagine facing this situation if we had not prepared ourselves for the fact that we would at some point experience a period of unemployment coupled with rising prices and unknown future economic stability.

While you can't know what the future will bring, rest assured from what history tells us, cycles of economic instability happen more frequently than many people realize. One can only assume that it will happen again and plan accordingly.

I have another something I intend to do. I intend to continue to study on homeopathy, herbal medicine, aromatherapy, and nutritional healing. I will make a sincere effort to keep a well-stocked kit.

We were on this path of reducing and paying off debt already, but I think just thinking about it emphasizes how important it is. We wanted already to be self-sufficient and avoid being beholden to the powers that be. I am thankful to have been raised in a home where people did this without thought, and to have them still here for advice on how to do things. :)

I mean, I think it is telling when you see people replying (not in this thread specifically but generally to this)... Recession coming (which I think is false, it is here)... "we are going to spend less, save more, and pay off our debt..."

Everyone should do that, recession or not...

I agree with this too.

But probably even 99% of the frugal people in America could still do more. As an example, we got out of debt 2 years ago and have been busy building our emergency fund/savings for a while now. We do live pretty frugally and have been trying to grow and raise our own food etc... I trade for or thrift just about everything we have and I seldom go anywhere unless it is to the Dr. or church and then I combine errands etc... But we can always find small pockets where we can improve. I would think that a lot of people are in this position. Saying they will spend less, save more etc... doesn't necessarily mean they are living carelessly, but that they will notch it up another step.

Aileen

Well, a lot of people finance that lifestyle and the fact is, the days of easy financing are about to be over imo.

Really? I guess I have a hard time wrapping my brain around that. You still need a pretty good income to finance a $700,000 house right? I don't know, I just really see people spending like crazy on ridiculous (IMO) crap and I am interested to see how this all play out I guess. I would like to see a change, I guess I won't believe it until I see it.

Just so you know the tone is not snarky, just talking :lol:

Really? I guess I have a hard time wrapping my brain around that. You still need a pretty good income to finance a $700,000 house right? I don't know, I just really see people spending like crazy on ridiculous (IMO) crap and I am interested to see how this all play out I guess. I would like to see a change, I guess I won't believe it until I see it.

Just so you know the tone is not snarky, just talking :lol:


Not as good a income as you would think. In our area, on our income we feel comfortable with a 10yr mort on a $150k house; we could have easily taken an ARM (adjustable rate mortgage with interest only for the 1st 5-7yrs on a 30yr loan) & gotten a $450k house, then furnished the whole thing with no payments until 2011. Seeing folks in the same job market with these kinds of houses is what made my dh so bitter, until he realized they don't own any of it. And they either have to move or refinance at the end of the interest only period, because they can't afford the true payment (3x more) so basically they are "renting" that house, cause they will never own it.

Recession or not:

We have 2 paid off cars. We intend to drive them into the ground.
We would like to find a house that we can put 50% down on. Not sure it's possible, but we'd like to try. We'd be completely debt free faster as a result. (we *are* debt free right now, as renters. It's a very light feeling.)
We had a wonderfully, tomato-heavy veggie garden in the ATL. I want another one when we get back there again.
I'm planning to finish my degree at GSU and figure out how to use it, in case we want/need income from my side. This education stuff is also back in the ATL, but I'm studying up while we're waiting to get there. It's amazing how much knowledge a person can lose in 10 years. :wah:
I'm still reducing our crap. I mean stuff. The less we have, the smaller the house we'll need.

Not as good a income as you would think. In our area, on our income we feel comfortable with a 10yr mort on a $150k house; we could have easily taken an ARM (adjustable rate mortgage with interest only for the 1st 5-7yrs on a 30yr loan) & gotten a $450k house, then furnished the whole thing with no payments until 2011. Seeing folks in the same job market with these kinds of houses is what made my dh so bitter, until he realized they don't own any of it. And they either have to move or refinance at the end of the interest only period, because they can't afford the true payment (3x more) so basically they are "renting" that house, cause they will never own it.

Ah-ha! Gotcha, I guess I am naive, I wouldn't even hear of stuff like this when we were buying a house! Honestly I can't believe people go for this--for a nice house? CRAZY!!! I guess that's why I live in a cheap townhouse and post here though right?:lol:

Reading Casaubon's book (blog) - here - Casaubon’s Book » 2008 » March (http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/) she makes the point that with the dollar falling/prices rising, it makes sense to invest now in things that you know you might need for sustainable living, so that as prices rise you've already acquired the things you need. Saving up "extra" $ right now doesn't necessarily make sense since as you save, the value of what you save is going down. Same with paying off debt...that debt becomes devalued as the dollar falls.

This is the kind of thing dh and I have been batting around. Not in a panic, just - does it make sense to rethink our aggressive debt paydown strategy (for the record, our only debt is our mortgage, HEL and a smallish car loan), and focus on acquiring our homesteading supplies? We both have steady jobs and even if I lost mine, we could make it on M's alone.

I think we are going to sell the van and get an older Subaru, freeing up a few thou, then possibly/probably to pay down the car loan with the goal of paying it off completely several months after that. And/or use the $ to invest in more animals, fencing, and supplies (maybe extra seed so we have for next year).

Yeah...I'm getting into a little stockpile mode. :) I think it's a good thing. We have no credit card debt, we'll have a good-sized emergency cushion, and like I said Matt's job is as secure as any job can be...

Reading Casaubon's book (blog) - here - Casaubon’s Book » 2008 » March (http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/) she makes the point that with the dollar falling/prices rising, it makes sense to invest now in things that you know you might need for sustainable living, so that as prices rise you've already acquired the things you need. Saving up "extra" $ right now doesn't necessarily make sense since as you save, the value of what you save is going down. Same with paying off debt...that debt becomes devalued as the dollar falls.

I think this is great advice, although I would still say to keep saving and paying off deb too. But I would def. make sure you have what you *really* need first.

Aileen

Donate more and make sure those that are less fortunate in our circle have what they need.