Would you? Why or why not? If you would, what type of punishment would you impose? What are your thoughts? Does age matter (other than under 18)? What if the child is 13? What if the child is 16?

I'd appreciate your opinions and thoughts on this issue. Please, even if you normally wouldn't post, please post. I really need to hear different people's views and thoughts on this.

I wasn't spoken to or allowed into the house for nearly two years upon my mom discovering I was sexual at age 20. It's a divide I still struggle to mend.

I would not punish - maybe hug? Sex and particularly early sex can often be a yearning for closeness. Maybe parent-child counseling?

Punish? Well, if making them go to a gynocologist, and making them take some type of sex education class, or even a parenting type class is punishing, then yes. I would. If I had a daughter under the age of 19, I would make her get on birth control no matter if she told me she wouldn't do it again or not. The trust would be gone at that point. I would also put in a phone call to the parents of the boy.

Short answer is - it will not even cross my mind.

Let me dig out some of the more elaborate stuff and will post later... Oh no luck.

So I'll just talk out of my head.

1) I don't see sex as a "crime" of any sort
2) I educate kids on sex *before* they enter puberty and all throughout as they express interest
3) Age does not matter as long as it is concensual sex (as in - nobody is FORCED, whether my child is the “forcer” or “forcee”
4) It's not much of my business actually just like my sexual life is not their business (unless *they* want to share)

my take on the matter is that we hope and pray to instill a belief and value system in our son that he is to maintain his virginity until his marriage (if he marries). I know that's probably old-fashioned and some people will laugh at us but that's what I want for him.

so, if he goes ahead and loses his virginity, and we find out, we'll let him know we're disappointed that he couldn't/wouldn't wait until marriage.

punishment? I'm not sure what kind of punishment would be appropriate for having sex. . .

it depends on his age, I suppose.

if he's younger (like you mentioned 13), then by golly I'd be furious with him and WANT to punish him somehow but I can't think of anything besides grounding him that could/would keep him from doing it again in the near future. but that wouldn't mean that he'd NOT do it again once the grounding was over. . .

it's really hard to picture the future, he's only 7.

I'm curious to see what other Mamas will have to say on this.

Man, I don't even want to think about it.

We expect our children to remain pure until marriage, also.

I don't know what I would for an older child, but for a 13 year old, yes, they would be grounded and then chaperoned everywhere they went. This would be until I felt I could trust them again. I would also do parent-child counseling.

13 is much too young to deal with sex, mentally, emotionally.

Have you found out for certain your DD is having sex? :hug:

ITA I normally wouldn't have posted on this topic as I know most everyone will disagree with me, but you asked specially for that. I don't feel like getting flamed so I hope this post does not turn into that, but stays helpful.

My ds is 16.
I wouldn't punish him but I would have a long talk with him and tell him my stance as his parent of concern in various areas of the situation.

If it were my dd (13), I'd be at the door of the other person's parents quicker than a wink and it would be a duo family discussion with all in attendance.

Is that punishment?

I'd kill 'em ..... then talk to them till their ear fell off - and then never leave them alone again.

Well, not really, but that's my first instinct.

If they were out of my home, there's not much *I* could do but they would certainly know that I do not approve of what they're doing. If they were still under my roof, there would be some serious consequences including not being allowed away from DH or myself for a good long time. There would be major counselling involved and lots of tears and prayers.

I can't imagine. I honestly thank God that my girls are 14 and 16 and have embraced our beliefs and can't even imagine doing anything like that - they're not dating and have no desire to do so until they're a little older. They know that there's still growing to do and dating now sets them up for lots of temptations because they can't marry yet - the natural end of a right relationship.

I know this is not the standard that a lot of people do but it's how we would deal with it......I think.

I expect my boys to remain pure until they move out of my house, what they do after that is their business. I would prefer they sleep with several people before settling down though, but that is their choice.

Well, Irina and Mari already said what I was going to say ~ and I'm glad ds is only 8.

Personally, I lost my virginity at 15, and as soon as Mom found out, she carted me off to te Gyno, had me start bc pills and I was NOT on a date unchaperoned for a while, I think I was almost 18 before I had another 'date'.

I can't think of what a punishment would be for having sex. I would not try to find one though.
I would talk with my child and explain how having sex at a young age can cause unwanted pregnancy and talk about the emotional issues with a sexual relationship. I have boys so I can provide condoms but can't count on them being used. I just feel like I need to educate my children and hope they make good decisions in this area for themselves. I do hope they wait until they are older just because having sex young can have big consequences. I do think their sex life is not mine. My kids aren't there yet though so I can only guess how I will deal with it.
I have had my oldest take a great puberty class at the childrens hospital here and I have gotten many books from the library and put them in his room for him to look through. I have read books aimed at my youngest to him(he is 6 yrs)

My answer is I would educate my kids and hope they make good decisions.

Aphrodite

I was made to leave my home at age 13 for having sex. Although I take responsibility for having made the decision TO have sex, I think now that I was so precocious in part because I had been molested at a young age, and had a workaholic, absent father. I still, to this day, have trouble reconciling sex as being a healthy, beautiful way to express love, because I was SO punished for doing it.

What I am saying is that girls who have sex young are often punished for their behavior around sex, and it's a slippery slope. I think she might need support, and counseling. There might be a reason she is having sex.

But, I wouldn't be able to support my children having sex. So, I'd probably punish the other behaviors that enable her to have sex- ie, sneaking out, having people over when not allowed to, etc. I'd try to make it really hard to get away with anything. ETA here: My beliefs about not having sex as teens is based out of responsiblity more than anything. Most teens are unable to support a child financially.

ETA: I know our 15 yr old (my step son) is having sex. He hasn't told us, but we found out. It's not with a girlfriend he loves and might marry, either. We have not punished him for it. His dad takes him on camping trips every year, talks to him, shows him pics of STDs on the net, etc. But he is completely unsupervised at his mom's for visitation. Nothing we can do about that. But he isn't sleeping with anyone at our house, and won't, if we have anything to do with it. He is in counseling.

My kids aren't that old yet, but if they were to do such a thing, they would immediately lose all the freedoms they had that got them into that situation in the first place. They'd have less freedom, more restrictions, and tons of supervision, and a good talking to. For a child under age 16, maybe all outings with friends will have to be at home when a grown-up is present, and maybe any outings at friend's homes we will have to verify that a grown-up will be present and supervising. Outings outside of home, they would most likely have a chaperone.

If they are 16 and have a vehicle that allows them to be out and about wherever, then they could do such a thing without anyone knowing. If I don't know about it, then I can't punish. If I were to find out about it, I'd probably take away car privileges and start driving them to work. My kids won't have the money for a car until they are 18, so we'll be driving our kids to work and other outings until then anyways, while they save up for a car.

Once they are 18 then they can do what they choose, but if it goes against our beliefs they better not do it in our home.

All my comments are made with the assumption that education on sexually contracted diseases, pregnancy, and other such things, has already been done beforehand, and that they've been instructed as to the family's beliefs in regards to it. Like others here, we are teaching abstinence until marriage.

Well, I haven't had it happen this way. Alexis and I had a very open relationship as far as communicating about sex. When she was ready, she came to me and I had her and her intended partner ( a long term boyfriend) go to planned parenthood and talk to the people there, get examined and they got birth control. Her boyfriend paid for hers adn his condoms. They were spooked enough that they waited a few more months. One day she came and told me she'd had sex. We talked about it. There was nothing to punish..she respected my rules about it.

Had I found out she was having sex before we'd been through all this together, I am not sure punishment would be appropriate. Education and communication would be appropriate. I would have required some counseling at planned parenthood at the very least, and a gyno exam to make sure she was ok.

Sex is supposed to be enjoyed by responsible, mature people. I would have been happier if Alexis had waited at least until adulthood, but the reality is, most teenagers don't wait, and they think they have to keep it all a big secret from you. If you blow up the notion of secretiveness, it helps. It helps them be more mature and sensible about it, and it helped me to allow her to grow, even though I was disappointed. I showed my disappointment, btw.

Alexis was tough in many ways, difficult to deal with, etc. But on this one thing, I seem to have done a good thing. She had a scare with HPV when she was 19 that gave her a career path. She wants to be a nurse/midwife. She also went to all the local high schools and talked to young girls about the reality of sex w/o birth control.

We also are raising our daughters *and* sons to keep themselves pure. But, there is a lot more to it than just saying, "Hey, no sex 'til marriage." There is a lot of teaching why and being open to questions and being compassionate so that they *will* come to us when they have hard decisions. It starts when they're little with not pretending boyfriends/girlfriends and reading fairy tales like The Princess and the Kiss - a story not just about keeping a very special gift (purity) but also (as a boy) protecting that gift.

So what would I do? Being realistic, we have SIX kids... so far. I'd cry... a lot. And we'd talk. And they would have broken a house rule and our trust. The appropriate discipline for breach of trust is to not allow the person anywhere where they would have the opportunity to breach that trust again until it is rebuilt. We do it now, we'll do it then. Would I put her on birth control? No. We don't believe in most forms of birth control so that isn't a viable option. I'd rather deal with a teen pregnancy than the birth control pill ethically.

BTW, I was not raised this way. "I was raised with the idea that please don't do it, but you probably are going to do it, so do it carefully." What's that quote from Beautiful Girlhood? We raise them with high ideals.

"An ideal is a mental conception of a perfection...""No girl can rise higher than her ideals. The ideal that one has in mind is the limit of perfection to that person. It is impossible to attain to higher things than we strive for. It is imperative for a girl to set before her good and pure ideals , that she set her mark high. "
"The dreams of doing or being that which is noble or great, of accomplishing much are a spur to young women. And would you, my dreamer, have your dreams come true?"

If you aim for purity, you may fail. But if you don't aim for purity, it is almost a certainty that you will. Set your childrens' ideals high... at least then you have a chance to attain it.

If my child, at the age of 13, were left to their own devices long enough to have sex I would rethink my parenting. I couldn't very well punish him/her for my own failures. I think I would feel that way up until the age of 15. By 15, my child has some freedom but I always make sure there will be a parent present, know where they are, and know who they will be with. I have a trust with my teens but they know that if they are lying or I find out they were doing things they shouldn't be, I would revoke their ability to be anywhere without my presence.

By the age of 16, if I found out my child was sexually active I would discuss the emotional and physical repercussions. I would tell him/her how very important it is that they use birth control 100% of the time. While I would not condone the behavior I would feel it is my duty to provide him/her with the tools necessary to make an informed decision (be it BC, literature, support).

I think the worst thing a parent can do is "freak out" when they find out their child is sexually active. That will just make the child withdraw emotionally and can only end badly for all parties involved. My mother had a don't ask, don't tell policy and that was just bad lol.

I'm not sure what I would do - though I wouldn't follow in my father's footsteps in this area. When he found out I was sexually active, I got grounded for 2 months. For those 2 months (and possibly longer) I was never allowed to be alone at home (sister didn't count). I had to go to a neighbor's house after school until my parents came home, had to drop basketball and other after school activities. Not allowed to talk on the phone, had ALL privileges removed. I was 13. All this did was make me move in with my mom, who didn't have any punishments for me, and had she taken a little more stricter stance (she let me do basically whatever I wanted) I probably would have been less active sexually than I was. He also made me go to a gynecologist that I had NEVER met, and told me I HAD to get an exam (but never told me what would happen, etc - guess he figured if I let boys touch me, I'd be ok with a Dr - but I had heard stories about cameras, etc, and I was scared out of my mind, and refused when I was in the room with the Dr - who was at least a girl, and was very nice).

I would probably make it so my child wasn't allowed to be alone or without an adult, but I wouldn't make it a rule, iykwim - I would just make sure it was that way. I would probably try to talk to them about it, find out why they were, etc if they were comfortable talking about it. I would suggest an exam, blood tests, etc, and explain in detail what they could expect from it. When I was a teenager, I had sex because it was fun. I wasn't in love with the guys, it didn't mean much more than sex to me. Now - that was different than a lot of the other girls I knew, but it just was the way it was for me. I guess I look at sex more the way a guy does, lol.

How's that for a rambley answer?? Age probably wouldn't matter so much. But other than that, I don't know. I do know that my family (now, lol) feels very strongly about waiting for marriage, and it's a value I try to instill in my children. But that doesn't mean it won't happen in our family!

well, Chels tells me she is still a virgin , at 17, and I believe her. She has no real reason to not tell me the truth. She and I have discussed the fact that hopefully when she has a boyfriend and is considering having relations (if she decideds not to wait until marriage, which of course is the best case scenario) she would come to me before that night happens so we can get her in to get protection. She'd rather be safe then dead or pregnant and obviously I'd rather have her safe, then dead or pregnant.

We do talk about sex and if/when she chooses to have sex I will help her to deal with it emotionally and be sure she is safe.

I would like to believe that the same way its been with Chelsey it will be with Zoey and then Roman.

I was punished for admitting I wanted to. After being told since I was 14 that they would rather me be honest and let them take me to Planned Parenthood for birth control than get pregnant, my dad and stepmother did a complete about face when I did ask her to take me at age 17. They packed me up to live with my mother on a farm in East Bum&*%# Louisiana (Maringuin for those who know Southern Louisiana). Two months into livingthere I met, and had sex with, the boy I would later spend ten years married to and have two children with.

For me, as a parent, a thirteen year old I would lock in the house. But by age fifteen, most kids have the resources and opportunity to have sex no matter how their parents feel about it. So unless you want to pretty much cut out all extracurricular activities and keep them prisoners, I think all you can do is teach them the many wise and important reasons that waiting is best, what to do about birth control and STD prevention if they chose not to wait, then pray a lot and hope for the best. :hug:

having once been a teenager having sex... no amount of punishment would have stopped me and likly would have incouraged me

open communication and love

like a pp said its about closeness and you can provide it or someone else can

1) I don't see sex as a "crime" of any sort
2) I educate kids on sex *before* they enter puberty and all throughout as they express interest
3) Age does not matter as long as it is concensual sex (as in - nobody is FORCED, whether my child is the “forcer” or “forcee”
4) It's not much of my business actually just like my sexual life is not their business (unless *they* want to share)


:agreed:

It is part of our belief system that one should remain pure until marriage. I intend to fully indoctrinate my children in the why's and how's of that, and I would hope that they would not be having sex as unmarried teenagers. If they were having sex as teenagers and were "caught", then that would most likely mean that they intentionally lied to us about their whereabouts/what they were or would be doing, and that is what they'd be punished for. If I couldn't trust my teen to be telling the truth, then they'd have restrictions about where they could go/who they can be with.

At the risk of being frowned upon - I enjoyed reading and participating in similar discussion at MDC Sex Before Marraige... Mamabug told me to repost here.... - MotheringDotCommune Forums (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=484738)

I always thought the punishment for having sex WAS kids. :p

Add me in to the bunch that isn't ready to deal with that just yet. Kendall was asking be about 'being borned' last night and we talked as non graphically about that as possible. I'm soooo not ready for puberty.

1) I don't see sex as a "crime" of any sort
2) I educate kids on sex *before* they enter puberty and all throughout as they express interest
3) Age does not matter as long as it is concensual sex (as in - nobody is FORCED, whether my child is the “forcer” or “forcee”
4) It's not much of my business actually just like my sexual life is not their business (unless *they* want to share)


Wonderfully said. I agree 100%.

Chole

having once been a teenager having sex... no amount of punishment would have stopped me and likly would have incouraged me

open communication and lovecan

I agree. No amount of punishment would have stopped me (and as it was, my dad finally gave up and stopped trying to control us when I got to be around 15).

I don't know what I'd do if I found out my DD was having sex. Right now we have a pretty open relationship and she talks to me about everything and I just want to make sure that things always stay that way somehow.

I don't know how I'd respond to the info that my 13 was sexually active. I have wondered about this for many years, as my ex-husband was 13 when he began having sex. I think it said more about his home/family life than anything about him.

I know I would want us all to do some sort of counseling if my 13yo was having sex. But, it would depend on how s/he handled it. If s/he was hiding it, keeping it a secret, I'd know that something was not right in our lives. If s/he was open about it and happy to be doing it, I think I'd be out of line to suggest that something is wrong with him/her. I don't know.

By age 15, I don't think I'd care one way or the other. I didn't have sex until a month before my 19th birthday. I was always taught to be a virgin when I married. The word "pure" as it applies to virginity sickens me to this day. I wasn't impure just b/c I started having sex. I was an adult and behaved accordingly. My stepfather called me a slut when he found out I was sexually active (and he only found out b/c they sat me down and grilled me about my sex life). Now, I embrace the word, but back then...it stunted my emotional development for a bit, I think.

I think 13 is young, but I certainly don't think sex is bad nor do I think ppl who engage in it are bad. Consentual sex is a good thing, as far as I can tell. I don't think I have any right telling other ppl what to do with their bodies. I would be concerned about a 13yo only b/c I can't imagine not having anything more interesting to do at that age. I was still playing with Barbies at 13. Having sex wasn't even a remote consideration. So, that's my bias and I'm aware that it would by my issue, not necessarily my child's.

short answer...No

But every situation is different. Every child is different. Plus it really depends on what your vision for them is, What you have been teaching them and expect from them in regards to sex, when it is appropriate, ect.......

Why is she having sex? Does she feel she is in love? Or is it more 'recreational'?

A 16yo who is 'in love' is much different IMHO then a 14yo who is seeking something by giving up the goods....attention, approval, ect.

That said........I can't say what I would do until I had a clearer picture of what was going on.

BIG HUGS

Luna

1) I don't see sex as a "crime" of any sort
2) I educate kids on sex *before* they enter puberty and all throughout as they express interest
3) Age does not matter as long as it is concensual sex (as in - nobody is FORCED, whether my child is the “forcer” or “forcee”
4) It's not much of my business actually just like my sexual life is not their business (unless *they* want to share)

I agree with #1 and #2. I do not agree with #3. Age is a big deal if we are talking about a child who is 13 because at 13, they really are still children. This leads to #4. If we are talking about an adult/child who is 18, then it isn't any of my business. If we are talking about a child who is 13, then I believe it is very much my business, particularly if they are with a partner who is older than they are. E.g. If my 13 year old daughter meets a young man who is 17 and has sex with him, then that is a big problem. If she meets a young man who is 18 and has sex with him, then that is a crime.

If the >16 yr old teens are in a responsible relationship and using BC & condoms then no. If not, then I'd address those issues but not punish. Watch more closely - yes.

Under <13 would get much much less free time but still not punished.

I don't think I would punish as much as be very very concerned that something's wrong elsewhere that is causing my child to engage in grown-up behaviour and try desperately to find out and fix that problem.

We teach them that we don't share our bodies until we are married adults, although they know that some people DO have sex before they're married, and that one of the reasons their birthfamilies placed them with us is because they weren't ready to be parents even though they were having sex.

I don't have some unrealistic dream that my kids will all be perfect and never do things I disagree with, but I do hope that they will be happy and healthy enough to make good choices and be old enough to use wisdom whatever their decisions.

Kerri

E.g. If my 13 year old daughter meets a young man who is 17 and has sex with him, then that is a big problem.
Not that I am in the mood to argue (sick you know, LOL), but WHY? Why does it have to be a problem?

15yo me and 17yo handsome boy went at it head first and we were so madly in love. How is that a "problem" of any sort, let alone "big"?

Yes, I got pregnant after a while (and may be with some education *before hand* we might have chosen to wait) and there is our "big problem" in my siggy and the above mentioned handsome boy is now my DH of 20 years (OK almost, 3 more months ;) )

If at 13yo my child has a *desire* to have sex and not being forced into it - what or what is so bad about sex?

We are way off on that issue with DS and DD (6 and 3) but SS punished himself after he had s e x after we had the safe sex/no sex talk: He now has to pay childsupport for 18 years. But evidently that didn't even teach him a lesson at all, he continues to be very inmature in that area and his focus is not on what it should be.

Okay, first of all, let me say that it kinda rubs me the wrong way (sorry) to equate virginity with the concept of "purity," but I guess that isn't the question.

First, it would depend on the age.

I do hope that they do not become sexually active (well, truthfully, I'd like them to wait for marriage) when they are teens and living at home.

Also, my kids will not be allowed to date until the age of 16. But, if it was younger than high school aged, I'd tell the other parent - consentual or not -and, depending on the age of the other, I may consider reporting it. I do not care if it is "consentual," if it involves and adult (out of high school) with a child not yet in high school, it is - IMO - illegal.

But, they would have to break up with their partner (assuming it was a boyfriend or a girlfriend) and would not be allowed to date for six months (and never the person they had sex with). Other than that, there would not be any formal punishment, but certainly would experience the natural consequence of severe parental disappointment (I wouldn't milk it or anything, but they'd know I was very sad and disappointed and that - fear of parental disappointment - was probably the biggest reason I didn't have sex as a teen).

and, the reality is that my children aren't even in elementary school yet, so I'm pretty much talking out of my butt.

The word "pure" as it applies to virginity sickens me to this day.

I thought I was the only one.

I agree with Bethany up there.

I think a teen having sex needs more love, support, understanding and perhaps some councelling. For a young teen especially, and maybe for an older teen (16-17) I would punish the sneaking, lying and I would up the supervision level to maximum.

Then again, I may end up doing totally different things. I've not parented a teen and not been through anything remotely similar, so I can only therorize.

And if this is your child having sex, hugs - I pray you handle it with wisdom.

If at 13yo my child has a *desire* to have sex and not being forced into it - what or what is so bad about sex?

I know we will never see eye to eye on this one, but I strongly believe that no matter how "mature" a 13 year old, they are still a child and cannot fully comprehend what is emotionally and physically involved with sex and cannot consent. They cannot grasp the potential consequences. They are in a normal stage of secondary narcissism that includes a personal fable of beliving that negative consequences happen to others, but not to them.

I don't want a 13 year old driving, owning a gun, drinking alcohol, going to war, making their own decisions about their health, or having sex. They do not have the mental or emotional capacity to consent to something with so many potential consequences - both positive and negative.

ETA: AND. . .I want a 13 year old focused on school and friends and soccer and being a kid.

I'll get back on the computer after the bed time "ritual", but meanwhile - can you give me some examples of negative consequences? (assuming they are educated about human reproduction and potential diseases)

Thanks! I promise I'll come back :)

ETA: AND. . .I want a 13 year old focused on school and friends and soccer and being a kid.

And I bet the 13 yo will want it too :)

and there is our "big problem" in my siggy and the above mentioned handsome boy is now my DH of 20 years (OK almost, 3 more months
If at 13yo my child has a *desire* to have sex and not being forced into it - what or what is so bad about sex?

Notice my sig? We've only been married just over ten years... umm... Briana was two months old at our wedding. I don't think it's being a hypocrite to ask her to do something I didn't do. I really wish, with all my heart, that my parents would have pushed the waiting issue... then I wouldn't have memories of other men being where I wish only my husband had ever been. And I wouldn't have to go to my class reunion and make small talk with my husband standing at my side and his wife there and we all know... well, what we all know.

NOTHING is bad about sex. All the things I think about sex... well, they're ALL pretty great. I mean how else can you relieve stress, get a workout, giggle, become closer to your dh, and maybe, if you're really blessed, conceive a new life? I'd say sex is about the greatest thing ever created... bar none. Love it, want more... :D

BUT, that doesn't mean everyone should do it willy nilly. With age, often (hopefully) comes wisdom. Your AVERAGE 13 year old isn't prepared to become a wife or a mother. She isn't prepared for the consequences of having sex. She isn't emotionally sure of what she's looking for in a lifetime mate. She isn't wise enough or life experienced enough to make a good decision. I'll be the first to agree that some of us... well we just hit the jackpot. I sure did. After two years of reckless sex, I ended up with my dh. We got pregnant, had a baby, and lived happily ever after. I believe if I hadn't gotten pregnant we probably would have eventually broken up and I'd have had several more partners... because even at 18 I wasn't emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically in a capable place. I'll thank God every day that I have Mark and my kids. **BUT** there is a better way. And that way, IMHO, is teaching my daughter what to look for in a husband. And to save that one really special thing for a really special guy. What a gift to give to your husband. To be able to look him in the eye and say that while you may have liked/loved others, HE is the only one. How I WISH I could have done that. :eyes: No one EVER even thought to put in my head that that was a plausible alternative. Shame on them... to only really offer one idea - well teenagers just *do* that. Now ask me a different question? What if at 16 or 17 she was emotionally mature, she knew what she wanted in a guy *and* had already found that guy? Would I let her get married and have sex? Yup.

This is a question I have not yet considered. DH and I will talk about it tonight. I know that I'm not going to encourage sexual activity for my teens, and I know that we will teach it is best when saved for marriage. That's our belief, both DH and I followed that path. But I'm not sure how we'd deal with a 16, 17 yr old having sex.

A 13 yr old--I agree with Rebecca on that.

I'll get back on the computer after the bed time "ritual", but meanwhile - can you give me some examples of negative consequences? (assuming they are educated about human reproduction and potential diseases)

Thanks! I promise I'll come back :)

I do not know a single kid who - having started having sex at 13 - didn't know about human reproduction and potential diseases. They know ALL about them. And, they do an excellent job of telling their friends to always use condoms.

They all (sorry, all that I've known) stumble when it comes to actually USING birth control themselves. Part of the personal fable. Totally age normal. Even if you hand them the condom. Hence, my belief that they are not emotionally or mentally mature enough to consent.

So, some of the consequences:

pregnancy (which, I believe is the quickest and surest way to life long poverity)
STDs
Focusing on sex and relationships ahead of school
making poor choices about relationships because of having sex
becoming emotionally casual about sex and seeing it as nothing more emotionally important than a handshake (don't get me started on the sex parties)

I'll get back on the computer after the bed time "ritual", but meanwhile - can you give me some examples of negative consequences? (assuming they are educated about human reproduction and potential diseases)

Thanks! I promise I'll come back :)

Pregnancy would be a biggie. STDS Emotional consequences. 13 is too young for sex IMO. I believe that most very young teens (or even younger) that are having sex have some void they are trying to fill.

That said, my desire for my kids is to wait for marriage. That is MY desire, but they are the ones to make the choice. I can lead and teach, but ultimately the choice is still theirs. I'd be very disappointed, but we'd handle it depending on the age and circumstances and move on. I'm not sure on a punishment, and I don't even know if one is appropriate unless rules are broken, etc. Counseling might be an option, closer supervision, etc. My oldest is 5, so who knows.

If at 13yo my child has a *desire* to have sex and not being forced into it - what or what is so bad about sex?

It is not my job as a parent to support any "desire" that my 13 year old child has. If it was, then my son would eat chocolate for dinner every night. Why? Because young teens are very hedonistic and want what they want when they want it even if they truly don't understand the potential consequences.

In my state, if a 17 year old has sex with my 13 year old daughter it is, by definition, statutory rape and it would be pursued to the fullest extent of the law. Of course that would occur after I pried my husband's hands off said 17 year old's neck.

Your AVERAGE 13 year old isn't prepared to become a wife or a mother.

I do not believe that there is a single 13 year old in this entire country that is prepared to become a wife or mother. Not one. Nor should they.

I thought I was the only one. (Who hated purity equating to virginity.)

Is it because people are so self-righteous about "purity" and virginity? I use the word "pure" because I think of it as being whole. Pure water is without any contaminants - it's fresh, new.

When I think of a girl that is "pure" I think of someone who doesn't have to wrestle with past memories when she is with the one she loves. And I *don't* equate purity just with virginity. Virginity to me isn't just pure. It's also a heart issue - not just a physical issue. I think a girl who has lost her virginity but re-devotes herself to abstaining until her husband comes is pure. Pure of heart (sincerity) is WAY more important than virginity. I think some get a bad taste in their mouth when they hear "purity" because of the self-righteous tone it has. Like someone is "dirty" if they aren't a virgin. Yes there are some indignant, self-righteous people out there. But, for some of us, purity is just a word to help our daughters (and sons) hold onto a lofty goal, a high ideal to grasp onto.

(Who hated purity equating to virginity.)

Is it because people are so self-righteous about "purity" and virginity? I use the word "pure" because I think of it as being whole. Pure water is without any contaminants - it's fresh, new.

When I think of a girl that is "pure" I think of someone who doesn't have to wrestle with past memories when she is with the one she loves. And I *don't* equate purity just with virginity. Virginity to me isn't just pure. It's also a heart issue - not just a physical issue. I think a girl who has lost her virginity but re-devotes herself to abstaining until her husband comes is pure. Pure of heart (sincerity) is WAY more important than virginity. I think some get a bad taste in their mouth when they hear "purity" because of the self-righteous tone it has. Like someone is "dirty" if they aren't a virgin. Yes there are some indignant, self-righteous people out there. But, for some of us, purity is just a word to help our daughters (and sons) hold onto a lofty goal, a high ideal to grasp onto.

yup. It's the self-rightous taste (and my personal wish would be that my children abstain from sex until they were married - though for me it has nothing to very little to do with any religious beliefs).

Same reason I dislike the term "pro-life" with a burning passion (even though I'll admit that I'm generally anti-abortion). It's self-rightous, condescending, and puts a value label on an action.

Wait, one more, I strongly dislike the term "maiden name" and always use "birth name."

Irina, question for you :hippy: and all :D

what if said child was 12?
11?
10?
9?
etc.

I mean. what if the child in question decided at the age of 11 that they really wanted to have sex with their 16 year old "boyfriend"?

Not snarky, I promise. Just curious as to if there is a line where it isn't okay and why you would or would not feel that it was appropriate.

double post, sorry

Wait, one more, I strongly dislike the term "maiden name" and always use "birth name."

Eh, but see but birth name isn't always what you'd otherwise consider a maiden name. Two of mine have birth names that they've never gone by (okay one has, but not anymore). Technicality, I know. ;)


And ITA (!!!) that there is no 13 year old ready to be a mother (or father!). And abortion or placing the child would not be fun either.

Eh, but see but birth name isn't always what you'd otherwise consider a maiden name. Two of mine have birth names that they've never gone by. Technicality, I know. ;)


I know. I'm a totally freak to have such a silly pet peeve, but I remember the day that it struck me. I was having dinner with a friend and a couple of her guy friends. They found out I was Mormon and asked me if I was still a "maiden." I was so shocked and horrified that they a) asked me directly over a freaking hamburger and b) referred to it as being a "maiden."



Oh, and while we are on a similar topic: mamas who use "pure" - are they still if they were forced into sex? :hippy:

btw, I love this discussion.

Like I said, purity is as much a state of the heart as it is a physical thing - you'd have to back a few posts and read it. :) I'd rather have a girl marry my son who is pure of heart than just a virgin. But, I'd rather my kiddos stay both. :D Can't I have it all?????

Like I said, purity is as much a state of the heart as it is a physical thing - you'd have to back a few posts and read it. :) I'd rather have a girl marry my son who is pure of heart than just a virgin. But, I'd rather my kiddos stay both. :D Can't I have it all?????

and, I totally agree with that. Actually, I remember when you wrote it and I agreed with it then (I - personally - wouldn't call it purity :lol: - but I understand the concept).

I know. I'm a totally freak to have such a silly pet peeve, but I remember the day that it struck me. I was having dinner with a friend and a couple of her guy friends. They found out I was Mormon and asked me if I was still a "maiden." I was so shocked and horrified that they a) asked me directly over a freaking hamburger and b) referred to it as being a "maiden."


Maybe "former name"? Hee hee, I was just joking with ya. Um, wow at their boldness! :drop:


Oh, and while we are on a similar topic: mamas who use "pure" - are they still if they were forced into sex? :hippy:

YES! Don't love "pure" really either, although it doesn't offend me. And I agree too with the other poster about "purity of heart".

btw, I love this discussion.

Me too.

Irina, question for you :hippy: and all :D

what if said child was 12?
11?
10?
9?
etc.

I mean. what if the child in question decided at the age of 11 that they really wanted to have sex with their 16 year old "boyfriend"?

Not snarky, I promise. Just curious as to if there is a line where it isn't okay and why you would or would not feel that it was appropriate.

I am back :)

I believe people are (from their infancy actually) capable of living according to their nature. You might remember my earlier posts about eating (self-regulation), sleeping and such.

Nature made us in such way that when we are not ready for something, we do not desire it.

Just like I do not see babies wanting to solve that Sudoku puzzle that "makes" me not go to bed on time, I do not see a 9 year old *desiring* sex. Remember, I was stressing desire? No forcing (and coercing by an older individual falls into "forcing" category)

I am yet to see a child at age 11 really wanting to have sex (no matter with whom...)

You know, like asking at what age to draw the line and stop having children - nature will let you know.

Now, I *am* taking about healthy and happy children, not mentally disabled, from the abusive families and so on and so forth. In this case the "nature" that I speak of has been grossly messed with :(

Notice my sig? We've only been married just over ten years... umm... Briana was two months old at our wedding. I don't think it's being a hypocrite to ask her to do something I didn't do. I really wish, with all my heart, that my parents would have pushed the waiting issue... then I wouldn't have memories of other men being where I wish only my husband had ever been. And I wouldn't have to go to my class reunion and make small talk with my husband standing at my side and his wife there and we all know... well, what we all know.

.

But this can happen (and does happen) at ANY age, not just to the teens (that is if I understood the situation ou are describing correctly)

I am back :)

I believe people are (from their infancy actually) capable of living according to their nature. You might remember my earlier posts about eating (self-regulation), sleeping and such.

Nature made us in such way that when we are not ready for something, we do not desire it.

Just like I do not see babies wanting to solve that Sudoku puzzle that "makes" me not go to bed on time, I do not see a 9 year old *desiring* sex. Remember, I was stressing desire? No forcing (and coercing by an older individual falls into "forcing" category)

I am yet to see a child at age 11 really wanting to have sex (no matter with whom...)

You know, like asking at what age to draw the line and stop having children - nature will let you know.

Now, I *am* taking about healthy and happy children, not mentally disabled, from the abusive families and so on and so forth. In this case the "nature" that I speak of has been grossly messed with :(

I see your point, but I don't think we live in that natural world.

Well...I certainly think that a child who desires sex can be ill prepared for the emotional and physical respnsibilitites that go along with it. For people who are living in a more natural world...they get married or pair off and have babies much younger than we do in the 'civilized' world. They are closer to their natural state.

I can't say that our world is the same as that.

I know I was horny as heck at 13-14 yo...and had sex for the first time at 15yo. I was extremely mature and responsible, but I still do think I was too young to be having sex. I am sure that if my mom was around paying attention to me that I would not have been seeking the closeness I got form physical intimacy. And ftr...I slept with a boy I had been best friends with from age 12 and dated from age 15 to age 21. I still think it was too young evn though we were mature and responsible.


To the OP..no I would not 'punish' a child who has had sex, but I would definitely look at my own parenting and the individual child and their age before I made any kind of decision about what to do.

pregnancy (which, I believe is the quickest and surest way to life long poverity)
STDs
I guess on those two we can argue all we want on the subject "they are / are not going to use protection"

Focusing on sex and relationships ahead of school Sex does not even have to be in the equation if the person decided to focus on relationship *only*
There are lots of things that can (and do) divert teens attention from school/study
On the flip side - many people have sex and still successfully study/work and so on
making poor choices about relationships because of having sex
This one I don't understand :o

becoming emotionally casual about sex and seeing it as nothing more emotionally important than a handshake (don't get me started on the sex parties)
This can happen at ANY age.

Now, again, we are actually talking about people WANTING / desiring to have sex, and not people who are forced/coerced into sex.

I might not have dealt with many teenagers, but I was one, my sister was one, my friends - we did not think about sex at 10, 11, 12. Around 13, 14 we started talking about it, and in natural progression some (many actually) of us started having sex at 15, 16, etc

I am not going around posting everywhere - "hey, make sure your 13yo has sex!" because most likely *they* will not want it

had to chime in here, about the desire not being there if one is not truly ready for something.
I remember being like 13 or 14 and wanting nothing more than to have sex! do i think i was ready at that age? f-no! but nevertheless, i was a horny as hell young lass as most are at that age. so i think that theory is totally wrong, IMO. just like now i have a desire for lots of things that i am not ready for or don't need. I'd love to eat a whole plate of cookies right now but of course i won't.
I think if my parents tried to tell me to wait to have sex until i was married, i would have laughed in their faces. I'm glad i didn't wait to have sex till i was married. I think i would have been too curious about what it would be like to experience it with someone else and be more tempted to stray from my marriage. but since i've been with other people in the past, it just doesn't interest me as much as it might if i had never been with anyone else. Sure, it would have been awsome to lose my virginity on my wedding night (i was actually 6 mos pregnant that night!) but i would not have had it any other way, really.
as for punishing my child for having sex.....wow, i seriously don't even want to think about that! she'll be 2 later this month so i have a few years before i need to worry about that. i guess it's one of those things that you can't speculate about until you are in that situation.
and rebecca, just wanted to let you know that i absolutely LOVE reading almost everything you write. you're so eloquent!

Hi everyone,
This is Irinam's husband chiming in (I sent her to bed).
First of all cudos for all who is talking -that means we are responsible and proactive parents who care
Secondly - here is my opinion and I'm only being logical
Child is ready to have sex at the moment their reproductive functions are ready-meaning if the girl is ovulating at 13-she's ready ;if a boy capable of having ejaculation -he's ready - there is nothing we can do about it -it's nature
On the other hand at that tender age it's truly expected for children ( teens though) to be preoccupied mainly with other things -education, travel , sports etc..If they are seeking sexual activities instead - than there is a reason which makes them wanna fill some kind of emotional void - most likely we'd need to look for reasons in the family.Could be a parental problem -not the kids problem.
Maturity level - is just as questionable as punishment for sex .
If the child is not mature to understand that there will be consequences to face
-can be only blamed on us as parents for not telling the all "truth" and not providing knowledge to the full degree.We are only good enough to buy them a "car"??Hmm...
Any kind of punishment for sex - is just another attempt to control them -which does not help-and making them pay for our mistakes.I've witnessed
that -dealt with it -and know for fact that it's not a solution.
What could be a solution??IMHO - honesty, understanding ,knowlege and love
multiplied on full disclosure of information regarding sex when the interest is shown.Being involved with kids -regardless of kid's age-that will make them mature enough to make their own decisions right.If we don't do that -we'll have what we have right now already - a bunch of 35 y. old's who are not mature enough to have sex -but do.
Thank you so much for reading and off my soap box.
Toly.Husband of one ,father of two,stand up comedian whenever I get the chanse.Rest of the time- a cab driver ;P.

why in the hell would i punish my teenager for having sex? that's what we're all wired for. ya can't blame biology on kids.

for those who plan on punishing...good luck with that.

thank you to everyone. I have to get the kids up and ready for school, but I promise that I will post more later. And truely, thank you.

Was this article what prompted the discussion?
DenverPost.com - Girl, 13, charged as sex offender and victim (http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4783650)

I know we will never see eye to eye on this one, but I strongly believe that no matter how "mature" a 13 year old, they are still a child and cannot fully comprehend what is emotionally and physically involved with sex and cannot consent. They cannot grasp the potential consequences. They are in a normal stage of secondary narcissism that includes a personal fable of beliving that negative consequences happen to others, but not to them.

I don't want a 13 year old driving, owning a gun, drinking alcohol, going to war, making their own decisions about their health, or having sex. They do not have the mental or emotional capacity to consent to something with so many potential consequences - both positive and negative.

ETA: AND. . .I want a 13 year old focused on school and friends and soccer and being a kid.


AMEN! I have seen the age 13 thrown out a couple of times in this thread. There is nothing wrong with the desire to have sex as a teen...even 13. That is normal. It is not OK to actually indulge in it in my book....AT ALL. I don't expect all to agree, but almost any child psycholgist worth his/her salt says the same thing. 13?!?!?! You have GOT to be kidding me. Rebecca, you hit all the big points for me. A child just isn't ready to have sex no matter what their bodies are capable of. It's more than a physical act. It's a spiritual and emotional experience that a child just isn't ready to deal with. Who would trust a 13yo with birth control? Even if you think you can trust your own child, what about the partner of your child? Do you stand outside the bedroom to make sure the condoms are put on right? Do hand our bc pills along with lunch money and vitamins every morning? What if that 13 yo gets pregnant? Is her body ready to carry a child to term? Would her parents provide her with an abortion? Is it fair to ask a child to carry the burden of a pregnancy or the termination of one? It is our responsiblity to our children to let them be children.

Would I punish for it? No. I would however restrict free time...and look for the root of the problem. It could be a lack of parenting or just a rebellious teen, but a 13 yo having sex is most definately a recipie for trouble. I wouldn't even punish and older teen, but I still wouldn't provide the opportunity willingly. I'd make it **** difficult and then fill that void with more age appropriate activities.

I understand the whole "purity" think, but I will be very careful in my choice of words with my children. The problem with equating purity to virginity is that it sets up this mind-set that once a child has sex, he/she is somehow tainted or that it is an all or nothing thing. I was 18 when I first had sex. I became a Christian at the age of 13. Because the major influences in my life (i.e. church) did equate purity to virginity, I developed this mind-set that I was somehow ruined and I might as well continue on that path. It wasn't as if I engaged in extremely promiscuous (sp?) behavior so much as making some poor choices in this realm. One of my college friends wanted to be a virgin (pure) so she engaged in anal sex with her boyfriend to protect her virginity. This is a real problem with being overly legalistic about this issue.

I would prefer my children have sex within marriage. However, I am not going to set up sex before marriage to be this hugely evil sin. I am not going to put this sin on a pedestal. I see this done a lot...this ranking of sins and generally anything involving sex is pretty high up on "bad" sins list. Of course the reality is that there are consequences for choices, including sex outside of marriage. I hope to somehow walk this very fine line between raising my children to have the values that sex is something to be enjoyed within marriage AND that sex is something they can discuss with me even if they choose to have sex before marriage.

I believe a lot of parents are in the dark about this issue. What are the stats for teen sex at various ages? I can't keep up with them, but floating in my head is that by the age of 16, about 50% of teenagers are having sex. I know I have also read stats that indicate children raised in fundamental Christian homes are having MORE oral sex than other teens (again with the "purity" issue). I wonder what the stats are for parents who think they children are having sex. ??? I am sure it is much lower than the number of children who are actually having sex. I remember plenty of girls from high school who were having sex without their parents knowledge. Some of these were girls from my youth group and I knew their parents well. My senior year of high school, I was truly shocked by the numbers within my youth group that were having sex.

The more complex issue for me is the idea of what to do as a parent to either support or hinder sexual activity. I certainly would not punish my child for having sex. I know that would ensure my child would continue to do so, as well as distance my child from me. I don't agree that a 13 year old child who is sexually active is being inappropriately unsupervised. I know the tactics teens use and if they want to have sex, short of locking them up there is little a parent can do to stop it. Maybe some think that route is ok to go. Me...I am more concerned about the total picture. I want my children to make choices from their own conscience. Of course they are going to make mistakes. It would be sad if an unplanned pregnancy or an STD is part of the consequence. I will do all that I can as a parent to avoid/prevent this. I want my children to enjoy long, healthy lives, but I also know that this life on earth is but a drop in the bucket in comparison with eternity. That last thought is what guides me in many things and keeps me from going crazy with anxiety about my children. I'm not a parent who wants my childred to say "I'm sorry" because I MAKE them; I want my child to truly *feel* sorry. This is how I feel about their sexuality, too.

Absolutely not. Educate, never punish for sex.

My parents punished me for sex and I'm still not comfortable with sexual expression to this day. I hope to never place that type of burden on my children.

:hug:

why in the hell would i punish my teenager for having sex? that's what we're all wired for. ya can't blame biology on kids.

for those who plan on punishing...good luck with that.

I have to agree with Kas on this one and like a few other mamas have said too Educate, not punish.

Was this article what prompted the discussion?
DenverPost.com - Girl, 13, charged as sex offender and victim (http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4783650)

no, it I posted because of my dd :sadhug:

Warning--long, rambling and I jump around a lot.

I found out the other day after finding a ton of condoms hidden in her room. Yes, I searched her room. She had lied to us and disobeyed me and let a friend in the house when I was gone for an hour. This friend had a boy with her. The next day, my money jar was missing. Eventually dd told me about the people over. On Monday I searched her room because it seemed weird to me that dd didn't notice that someone took a jar of change that weighed about 20 pounds. While looking in her room, I found condoms. When she came home from school, I sat her down and she eventually confessed. She said it happened once. The boy wasn't even her boyfriend. It occured when she was supposed to be at her friend S.'s house. Instead dd and S. went to a party at E.'s house. I am just in shock because I have done everything that I am supposed to do as a parent. The whole sex talk, the maturity talk, the consequence talk, the wait talk, and not just one time talks either. We spend time together, she talks to me about other things. I was a single parent and had her when I was on college and we've talked about how difficult it was to have a child alone and be in school. We've talked about everything all the time. I thought I knew where my child was and who she was with.

Anyway, DH and I talked and it's much more clear now that we are punishing her for her bad decisions--lying, disobeying, etc. and not for the actual act of sex. We sat her down last night and explained all of this to her. She can't even say that she had sex. She'll say, "you know, what I did" If she can't even acknowledge what she did, then she's definately not mature enough to do it, yk?

Oh, and in my opinion, 13 is way, way to young. Yes, there are physical urges and curiosity, but sex has so many potential consequences, and a 13 year old is not capable of handling such consequences. (Consequences being the natural consequences such as disease and pregnancy in addition to emotional consequences).

This week has been one hell of a week. DD's birthday is Saturday and I've struggled with that. I am so sad, hurt and confused by dd's choices, to the point that on Tuesday I didn't want to give her anything for her b-day. Originally she was getting a digital camera, but I found inappropriate pictures on my old one that she's been using, so she won't be getting a new digital camera. We have cancelled her birthday dinner with her friends. I was supposed to take 4 of them to the Hard Rock Cafe on Saturday night. We cancelled because it felt like we were supporting/rewarding her bad behavior (lying, etc. not sex). I will get her something, but not very much. I haven't told her, but I'm hoping to be able to take her and her friends to the Hard Rock this summer, assuming that she has worked on her choices and behavior and has shown a great improvement.

Oh, and I did take her to her family doctor and we all talked and then DD and Dr. talked, dd knew that it was confidential and wouldn't be shared unless she was in danger and dangerous to herself or others. She did get a pelvic and had a pap smear and other tests. DD also consented to the blood tests for pregnancy, HIV, and all other STDs, as well as a drug test. She said she hasn't done drugs, but I wanted her tested since I am having a hard time believing her right now. I will be calling around today and tomorrow to find a therapist for her and for us as a family.

I really do thank you for your opinions, it really has helped. When I posted this question, it was because it felt like we were punishing her for having sex and I was really unsure how I felt about that. Was it right? Was it wrong? How would it affect her in the future? Nobody ever knows about the future and I know that we all just hope that we make the right decisions, but man, is it hard.

Where I live, stats say 50% of grade 8s are having sex. I agree 100% Educate, educate, educate.

Many many :hug: Is your DD 13, turning 14? I can't tell from your post.

:hug:

Using my life as an example, etc


pregnancy (which, I believe is the quickest and surest way to life long poverity)
Did happen - but not leading to poverty. I believe that is a cycle, which a lot of girls that get pregnant are IN poverty to begin with.
STDs
I chose my partners VERY carefully, and my dh was the only one I had inadequately protected sex with (misused protection)
Focusing on sex and relationships ahead of school Sex had nothing to do with school, and vice versa. I made straight A's most years. Just like as adults, we can focus our attention on more than one thing at a time (work and children??)

making poor choices about relationships because of having sex In what way?
becoming emotionally casual about sex and seeing it as nothing more emotionally important than a handshake (don't get me started on the sex parties)
I don't see sex as casual as a handshake, but it's not something I tie a lot of emotion into either, but I was that way BEFORE I had sex, not after.

Of course, I think I just feel like arguing, because, like Blsdmama, I TOTALLY want my children to wait for marriage, and will do everything I can to help them achieve that.

She'll be 14 on Saturday. Apparently this happened in either August or September.

:big hug: Mary, it really sounds like you are doing the best you can under the circumstances. Don't be too hard on yourself, Parents are soooo not perfect.

No, I would not punish. I think under 18 and especially under 16, there is an "issue" that needs to be addressed. I would get to the bottom of why they felt they needed to have sex. My sister had sex at 13. She wanted to give my grandfather a grandbaby before he died. (He had end-stage cancer.) I was 15 and with the illness of my grandfather, lost a lot of the attention and support I had had (from him and my parents). I found it elsewhere. My sister did not have sex again for many years. I married my first partner. We have been together 19 years.

I think sex before they are emotionally ready for commitment stems from a need not satisfied. I would help them find that need and how else to satisfy it.

Secondly - here is my opinion and I'm only being logical
Child is ready to have sex at the moment their reproductive functions are ready-meaning if the girl is ovulating at 13-she's ready ;if a boy capable of having ejaculation -he's ready - there is nothing we can do about it -it's nature


Ok, maybe I'll take some heat for saying this, but this comment strikes too close to the NAMBLA philosophy for comfort for me.

By the way, there is something that we can do about it. We can set guidelines and expectations for behavior. We can be more of a parent to our children than a fairy godmother (or godfather) who exists simply to indulge their "desires". We can educate and communicate. We can refrain from letting our kids "date" unsupervised when they are 12 or 13. We can monitor them while they are on the internet. We can get to know their friends and their friends parents. We can be present in their lives. We can teach them the value of their bodies and the value to be found in relationships. What we can't do is to throw up our hands and say, they are going to have sex anyway so we might as well just accept it. You know why? Because they are not all going to do it. I know this because I have a 20 year old son who is still a virgin despite dating a few different girls in the past 4-5 years. Unfortunately, he has a few friends who became fathers during high school... friends that usually came here and talked with my husband and I before going home to talk to their own parents about it. He never thanked me more than he did after that first friend became a father. It was then that he truly "got it".

Gosh, I never want my teens to have sex. :eek:

Serioulsy, while I would like them to wait until they are emotionally mature and in a committed relationship, I think some kids do jump the gun on that.

Once it's happened, there isn't much we can do to turn back the clock. We can try to have non -hysterical conversations about self-respect, safety, and emotional readiness. It's not just about the body being willing (that's why masturbation is a very good thing), it's also about the heart...and soul.

I think sex is a pretty big thing, a communion. I also think some people are better at recreational sex than others are. While teens can seem very hohum about sex, they might not be really feeling that. A teen may be saying "Sex is no big deal" but may (or may not) think it is really an emotional big deal. Parents need to be open to those conversations. And dare I say, in a thoughtful, non hysterical, non threatening way.

If you we can't do that, our kids are going to be on their own, emotionally. And no amount of punishment is going to help a child open up and share their true feelings.

Our family conversations about sex are ongoing and I try to be as open as I can so I don't freak them out with my raw emotions. I have always told my children I prefer they wait until they are truly ready, and not go by what others do. I also don't want them to have sex as a form of rebellion against us.

Wow! What an emotional topic, hugs to you, Mary! I cannot imagine and hope I never have to face this issue. For the record, I am not against pre-marital sex. I'm not religous, and see nothing wrong w/ it (although DH has been my only partner and I his). I agree w/ those who stated that at about puberty, kids are sexual in nature. It's biology,nad basically we are mammals, it's what we are supposed to do. I would sincerely hope that my girls decide to masterbate themselves first, if they are having those urges. Same for any boys I may have. IMO, this is healthy and completely safe. I do think I would worry if my 13 year old was having sex, though. I really don't think at 13 that they are capable of making those decisions and always using protection, ect. is a responsibility I that I'm not sure most 13 YOS have. By 15 or 16, I think I would not want to encourage it, but I feel at that age, it's their choice and their body. I see a big difference in 13 and 15-16. I hope to educate my kids as they grow, so that they feel they can come to me when they have questions and such. Honestly, I didn't have that from my parents. I grew up w/ the Sex is Wrong/Sin attitude. It didn't stop me from having sex before getting married. Now, as a married adult who has left those teachings, I feel that sex is really important, and that you should be having sex before marriage. How else will you know if you are evenly matched?

And I do think if I found out my child was having sex, I would definately want them to talk to a DR, get the tests and all that, and get on BC of some kind, as well as use condoms. If my child was under 15, I think I would also take them to some sort of counciling to make sure there are not other underlying issues.

I wanna jump in and say that INDEED, 13 yr olds have s e x already and they do think about it IMO because they are being bombarded with sexual things all over...TV, MAGAZINES, SONGS. I personally will discourage my own children from doing so because it is against my religious believe, but since I have been thrown into this world of teenagers since my step-grandbaby's mom got pregnant, since I experienced this, I will be even more careful about what is going on with my children and will not be blind to it. My stepgrandbaby's mothers got pregnant at age 14....and he was born when she was 15. She is now 16.
Teenagers have s e x under bleachers (my husband caught them there) in their rooms WHILE parents are in their homes, in cars, hottubs etc. , we were told by a few teens about this when we had a long talk with them.
Safe s e x is a lot of times not even an issue because the time and the place a lot choose to have sex at. They most times do not have the foresight to think about putting a c o n d o m on to prevent not only STD's but also to protect them from an unwanted pregnancy.
I think as a parent we need to make sure that a 13 yr old (even if the re-productive organs are functioning) is not emotionally, financially and mentally ready for the possible consequence of S E X (baby, STD, or even worse---->death due to aids~).
My 6 yr old knows that babies are made when a mom and dad get together...and "match' their puzzle pieces (we also call them p-nis and V-gina) together. BUT I personally teach him that this should not happen until he finds the right woman to marry and to be his wife, the one who has the correct puzzle pc to match his. I think it is not to early to talk about it in a child like way. But that is JMHO!

and I'm only being logical
Child is ready to have sex at the moment their reproductive functions are ready-meaning if the girl is ovulating at 13-she's ready ;if a boy capable of having ejaculation -he's ready - there is nothing we can do about it -it's nature


People aren't animals. They have souls. They have a spiritual and psychological level that just is not bottom line instinct. Sex is as much a spiritual issue as a physical issue. It is not only a physical union, but an emotional union. Also, it is a bit unfair to say that because a child is ovulating that she is ready to carry a child. Due to the MASSIVE amounts of hormones being FED to us and pumped into our milk, meat, etc. little girls are developing far earlier than ever intended. It was once thought that they did not begin to ovulate/have periods until age 15-16. And, honestly, raised correctly and finding the right guy, I probably WOULD let my dd get married if he was able to support a family and they shared the same beliefs. But, we homeschool, and she'll have her schooling complete by then too, if she chooses not to go to college.



If the child is not mature to understand that there will be consequences to face
-can be only blamed on us as parents for not telling the all "truth" and not providing knowledge to the full degree.


There is psychological maturity, spiritual maturity, physical maturity, and the ability to make reasonable decisions in reasonable circumstances. CHILDREN, by "nature", are too impressionable by peer pressure, and other things.


Being involved with kids -regardless of kid's age-that will make them mature enough to make their own decisions right.If we don't do that -we'll have what we have right now already - a bunch of 35 y. old's who are not mature enough to have sex -but do.


(Nodding head vehemently in agreement) Yup. A parent's best skill is communication, being involved, being compassionate, sharing beliefs, and walking the walk. I completely agree with poster on the above quote.

Bottom line - I can think of a million negative consequences to having sex....

But, WHAT would the positive consequences be for allowing your CHILD to have sex??? That confuses me. Why would you allow a child to do something that can be soooo dangerous and have such dreadful consequences based solely on "because I want to"... Do we allow them to experiment with dangerous drugs? Inject themselves with things? Eat junk food for every meal? We have an obligation as parents to protect them until they are ready to make decisions for themselves. There is no set age.

My 6 yr old knows that babies are made when a mom and dad get together...and "match' their puzzle pieces (we also call them p-nis and V-gina) together. BUT I personally teach him that this should not happen until he finds the right woman to marry and to be his wife, the one who has the correct puzzle pc to match his. I think it is not to early to talk about it in a child like way. But that is JMHO!
That's what I told my ds a couple years ago too! Now it's "a mommy lets the daddy she wants put the baby seed in her garden, where it grows and grows and Mommy has to work very very hard to push the baby out" - he knows so far that we want him to wait until he's married, but he says he's never getting married :lol:
DD hasn't asked anything yet!

Actually- I would talk with them- express dissapointment- make sure they are properly protected.

I became sexually active shortly after my 14th b-day and married him 5 years later.


No regrets here. NONE

Oh dude... as it was not enough that I was getting heat for my own postings, now I am getting heat for my DH's posting :) (I think that's the first one he ever made a comment on ANY message board - I told him about discussion and he got interested)


=
But, WHAT would the positive consequences be for allowing your CHILD to have sex???

There is no ALLOWING ir DISALLOWING unless one is willing to lock the child up and monitor every single step, which is not humanly possible.

Nobody ever ALLOWED me to have sex (and I believe there are a few of us, even on this board) - we still managed to do it


The points that I made here are not about allowing and not allowing

1) The sexual desire is present since earlier age than we (adults) are comfortable with
2) Kids should be educated educated educated
3) Emotional maturity has to be nurtured from the early age as well. This by the way in my mind is inteleaved with my whole philosophy of treating a child as an emotionally equal member of the family / society (againg, equality does NOT equal SAMENESS, just like women and men equality does not mean they are the same)
4) Many children (yes, even as young as 13) ARE capable of reasoning and making their OWN decision on whether they are ready or not
5) Many adults (yes, way past the age of puberty) are NOT capable of such reasoning

People aren't animals. They have souls. Yes. But souls are present at 13, aren't they?

Ok, maybe I'll take some heat for saying this, but this comment strikes too close to the NAMBLA philosophy for comfort for me.

NAMBLA as in North American Man/Boy Love Association? I must admit I do not thoughrouly know their philosophy.

And am I to take it you do not approve of this philosophy? (As I said I am not familiar with it, so I do not have yet have an opinion on this)

NAMBLA as in North American Man/Boy Love Association? I must admit I do not thoughrouly know their philosophy.

And am I to take it you do not approve of this philosophy? (As I said I am not familiar with it, so I do not have yet have an opinion on this)

Yes, you are correct in assuming that I do not approve of anything that NAMBLA stands for. I think if you did a survey here, precious few (if any) would approve of their philosophies.

I'll keep my personal religious/spiritual convictions out of this since they only really apply to me and my intent for my own children. I'll try to be as objective as possible in my response.

Punish? No. But I would be deeply concerned, especially at the younger ages you've mentioned. I wouldn't feel the need to punish, but I would feel a major need to protect.

As big, imo, as the physical risks are the emotional risks. A teen's perception is just "off" due to plain old not being an adult. The maturity to make good judgements just isn't all there. I just don't think a young teen can deal with the overwhelming emotion that a sexual relationship brings. Identity and self-knowledge grow at such a rapid rate in the teen years. I think it's so, so important to really know who you are before sharing yourself so intimately with others.

I'd be so worried about the possibly tragic ways the scenario could play out. Teen girls so want to feel desired and loved. I just don't think teen boys, generally speaking, invest emotionally to the same degree.

I don't understand how a young teen even has the opportunity for sex. Is dating allowed at a young age? EVen group dates without adult supervision?

I know some young teens do have sex. I just have a hard time wrapping my brain around where they find the opportunity. If the opportunity is there I'd rethink the boundaries. Not to punish, but to protect.

How can you connect the NAMBLA w/ what Irinam said? I am still trying to figure that out. It's fine if you don't want your kids to have sex so early, but honestly, it WON"T be your decision. It's theirs. As far as teh NAMBLA, I don't know much about them, but I don't really think the posts were in approval of their policies. How do yo connect them w/ what is posted previously?

Yes, you are correct in assuming that I do not approve of anything that NAMBLA stands for. I think if you did a survey here, precious few (if any) would approve of their philosophies.

Ok, I am on their webpage... they are only talking about 1) gay relationship (and I don't limit my postings to gay relashionships) 2) they concentrate on the age gap between older person and younger person

So far I see their "philosophy" as highly limited to those two categories.

I do not see how this Child is ready to have sex at the moment their reproductive functions are ready-meaning if the girl is ovulating at 13-she's ready ;if a boy capable of having ejaculation -he's ready - there is nothing we can do about it -it's nature applies to this philosophy.

Maybe if I search deeper I will find that it happened to be one of their statements, in which case it would be ONE statement that I agree with (so far)

the only things, in our household at this time, that get any sort of "punishment" are lying and deliberately physically hurting another person.

so, no we would not punish our childe/children for having a consensual sexual relationship with someone else. even at age 13. we would have a whole bunch of discussions about the responsibilities that come with having a sexual relationship.

we try to start these talks as soon as possible with all the girls, anyway. i can only hope that my husband and i have done our best to make our children feel/know they can come to us and talk with us about these things and therefore make the most responsible decision for themselves. but i know better than to assume that all my children will wait as long as i did.

Physically, a person after puberty is capable of sexual acts. In ages past, this was done. But, we have evolved into emotional beings. Emotions are complicated and, I feel, until emotional maturity is reached (no matter the age, as mentioned, there are some adults that are not there), sexual acts are used to fill voids, emotionally and physically. This, IMO, it is utmost thing to take into consideration when we find ourselves helping an emotionally immature person after they have engaged in sexual acts.

ETA: In many states, sexual acts by minors is illegal. In AL, if your daughter's partner was 16 or older, he would be charged as an adult with Rape whether it was consensual or not. The State feels it cannot be consensual based on age of the girl. If she is under 18, it is considered rape. If she is 16 or under, the State will press charges without the consent of the girl or her parents. At 17, the parents have to want the charges filed.

Physically, a person after puberty is capable of sexual acts. In ages past, this was done. But, we have evolved into emotional beings. Emotions are complicated and, I feel, until emotional maturity is reached (no matter the age, as mentioned, there are some adults that are not there), sexual acts are used to fill voids, emotionally and physically. This, IMO, it is utmost thing to take into consideration when we find ourselves helping an emotionally immature person after they have engaged in sexual acts.
Now with this I completely agree :)

Ok, I am on their webpage... they are only talking about 1) gay relationship (and I don't limit my postings to gay relashionships) 2) the concentrate on the age gap between older person and younger person

So far I see their "philosophy" as highly limited to those two categories.

I do not see how this applies to this philosophy.

Maybe if I search deeper I will find that it happened to be one of their statements, in which case it would be ONE statement that I agree with (so far)

Their entire philosophy is based upon the concept of sexual freedom for all and supports "the rights of youth as well as adults to choose the partners with whom they wish to share and enjoy their bodies." They argue that *children* are sexual beings and it's a very natural phenomenon. Sound familiar?

I am not limiting my discussion to the homosexual nature of the issue because, IMO, that is really a non-issue. It is the sex with children (and yes, 13 is a child in the statutory rape laws in most states) because children are just sexual by nature that creeps me out. My daughter got her period at 10. Does that justify a 16 or 17 year old having sex with her and saying that she consented? I am sorry, but at 10 she is simply not equipped to have sex no matter how much I have tried to prepare her. Do you honestly believe that it is ok for a 10 year old to have sex with a 17 year old if both "consented"? Please tell me that you don't.

everything my kids do is my business... all the time

age does matter. You shouldn't be having sex if you aren't old enough to get a job and support the child that you might very well produce.

age does matter. You shouldn't be having sex is you aren't old enough to marry the mother/father of the child that you might very well produce with them.

If you are truely educating your kids about sex then you would have to tell them that sex produces LIFE and that though the act of sex itself is a beautiful thing it is something to be taken seriously. Sex involves responsibility and most "kids" don't have enough of it to (a lot of adults don't either). If they did then there wouldn't be so many kids giving birth to babies who will never know the blessing of being raised in an intact home with a loving, committed mother and father. It's the biggest tragedy on the planet in my opinion.

Sex is a wonderful thing but there was a reason God intended it to be experienced between 2 committed people *after* marriage.


To answer the question. Would I punish? I would not necessarily "punish". Lots of talking, praying... some tears... counseling. I would have to contact the other child's parents and I would not allow the two to ever be alone again. And I realize that if a child is determined to have sex then they will find a way... but there are plenty of things that parents can do to make it more difficult. A lot of parents make it entirely too easy. Too much freedom. Too much trust. A child needs both but only on a level which is appropriate for their age/maturity and what they've already proven to be able to handle.

I was thinking (pleasantly) about this topic while working out this morning. Some random thoughts:

ly - here is my opinion and I'm only being logical
Child is ready to have sex at the moment their reproductive functions are ready-meaning if the girl is ovulating at 13-she's ready ;if a boy capable of having ejaculation -he's ready - there is nothing we can do about it -it's nature

[snip]

Maturity level - is just as questionable as punishment for sex .
If the child is not mature to understand that there will be consequences to face
-can be only blamed on us as parents for not telling the all "truth" and not providing knowledge to the full degree.We are only good enough to buy them a "car"??Hmm...

from an evolutionary perspective, our primary drives are to pass on our genetic material. Thus, in a sense, and from an evolutionary perspective, it is adventageous for us to be sexually mature at the age of 13. The earlier we start, the more babies. That, however, does nothing for the quality of life concerns I hold near and dear for my children.

Thus, biology is primed for a evolutionary goal at 13 that works against potential quality of life issues.

Then, the 13 year old brain has not finished developing. A very important, central structure that is necessary for higher order thinking does not finish developing until approximately 21. So, we are combining a biological drive with an physiologicaly immature brain.

Finally, I - personally - am not willing to have natural consequences of an immature brain combined with a mature sex drive to be the form of education used to teach my children sexual responsibility.

Then, the whole concept that children/adults will make the best choices if given respectful free-reign combined with a strong relationship with their parents sounds great. But, I think it's not based on reality. Reality includes a media whose main purpose is to make money selling products. Sex sells. 13 year olds are prematurely socially sexualized by the media - and even the non-overtly sexual media. They learn that much of society's view of their self worth is based upon their sexuality. No matter how strong the parent children relationship, by the time they are middle school aged, their peers are as much, if not more, an influence on their behavior as are their parents. So, even if said child has an awesome relationship with his or her parents, that doesn't mean that Bobbie Jo or Stevie down the street do and they might be as much, if not more, an influence. So, it would be a great concept without the media fighting against us. And, no matter how much one tries, one cannot remove all sexualized influences from one's child's life.

Then, back to my list of potential consequences because I know people question them:

Pregnancy being the fastest road to lifelong poverity. Do the research and look up the statistics and tell me that I'm wrong. I know that statistics are odds and that there are some who will rise above the odds and really succeed. I've a very good friend who did exactly that. But, it makes it a hell of a lot harder to do so. I would not wish that struggle on any child. Anyone else wish that struggle on their child?

STD - 1 out of 5 individuals over the age of 15 has herpes. Something like 1 out of 3 has HPV. Again, back to natural consequences as a method of learning for a reproductively mature, cognitively immature brain is not a method I'd run the risk using. The consequences are potentially deadly.

Poor choices - I - personally - believe that for many individuals (especially young people), the decision to have sex can result in staying in relationships with people who mistreat them because they are sexually involved. No sex and it is far easier to leave said relationship. Look at your own (general you) relationship choices. In the relationships that have involved poorer choices, was sex involved?

Devaluing sex - once one has had sex it is far harder to say no and step back to just holding hands. Sex becomes the norm. The more it is the norm, the more potential partners, the more potential partners, the higher the potential negative consequences of pregnancy, STD, and poor choices. and the easier it becomes to give some guy head in the school bathroom, go to rainbow parties, have group sex because it's "cool", etc. Devaluing sex - IMO - in that manner also - IMO - leads to negative feelings about one's own self.

Oh, and another thought I was having:

Assuming all individuals will make the best self-choices if allowed education, free-choice, and respectful support by the most critical others in their life.

Why then is there such an increase in Type II Diabetes, which generally develops through poor eating habits? We are all clearly very educated as to nutrition. Yet, even in the face of the natural consequences, we eat terribly. That is clearly not in our own best interest.

Then, what about smoking? I doubt there is a single person on this planet who is not aware as to all the negative consequences of smoking. Many of them have had wonderfully supportive and respectful parents, yet they smoke.

I do not believe that we as adults make choices that are in our best interest, why would I trust severe natural consequences to my child, who, as I said earlier, still has a developing brain?

Finally, and far most importantly:

(((Mary, Mary)))

I'm so sorry. I cannot imagine the disappointment you must be facing, but it sounds as if you are doing a wonderful job. Loving, honestly, open, educating, and addressing the other behaviors that have contributed such as lying.

hugs to you, mama. i know how tough this topic can be for those of us who are going through it. i'm currently dealing with my 17yo's newfound sexuality and lemme tell ya, although we were preparing for the momentous occasion for years, when it happened, i was blindsighted and overwhelmed with worry all at the same time-and he told me about it beforehand. he was prepared, she was prepared, and mama melted into a great big funk for a day or so...worry set in and it's still fresh in the back of my mind on a daily basis.

if my 13 (tan's almost 14) was having sexual relations (out of love-because to me, this makes a difference, and yes, even 13yos can be in love), i would be disappointed with myself (as i'm sure you are), but questioning what you did wrong or whatnot is a natural reaction since we moms tend to blame ourselves for everything under the sun.

the fact that she *is* active, you did the right thing by taking her in for bc and testing. i would have done the same thing. actually, tan's going on the pill on her next bday, and will likely go through planned parenthood's sex ed class in addition to the public school "abstinence training" classes-what a joke.

i would try to address, womyn to womyn with her the emotional needs that she had met when she had sex with this boy, and how their relationship changed after they "did it". especially since they weren't a couple.

chin up. this is one of the hardest parts of parenting. you made it through and you both still have breath.

Oh dude... as it was not enough that I was getting heat for my own postings, now I am getting heat for my DH's posting :) (I think that's the first one he ever made a comment on ANY message board - I told him about discussion and he got interested)

I totally appreciate his contribution! Tell him he needs to get his own user name and pop in more!

1) The sexual desire is present since earlier age than we (adults) are comfortable with
2) Kids should be educated educated educated
3) Emotional maturity has to be nurtured from the early age as well. This by the way in my mind is inteleaved with my whole philosophy of treating a child as an emotionally equal member of the family / society (againg, equality does NOT equal SAMENESS, just like women and men equality does not mean they are the same)

And, I think that most of us (certainly me) probably completely agree with each of those three points. Totally.

I don't think Irina or her DH is advocating sex with minors and adults. We have no way of knowing the age of the boy in this situation (unless it is said and I missed it). The biological fact is that upon menstruating, a female is exposed to the hormones that produce desire and sexual interest. It does not matter if she is 10, 12, 19. As mammals, we are designed to reproduce. We are the only mammals, because of evolution, that have sex for more reasons than to reproduce. All other mammals, TTBOMK, begin sexual activity for the purpose of reproduction as soon as they are biologically able. When we discuss with our children abstaining until emotionally ready, you must take into account that thier hormones will be raging to reproduce from the beginning on menstruation/puberty. They need to know this too. Their desire is real.

everything my kids do is my business... all the time

age does matter. You shouldn't be having sex if you aren't old enough to get a job and support the child that you might very well produce.

age does matter. You shouldn't be having sex is you aren't old enough to marry the mother/father of the child that you might very well produce with them.

If you are truely educating your kids about sex then you would have to tell them that sex produces LIFE and that though the act of sex itself is a beautiful thing it is something to be taken seriously. Sex involves responsibility and most "kids" don't have enough of it to (a lot of adults don't either). If they did then there wouldn't be so many kids giving birth to babies who will never know the blessing of being raised in an intact home with a loving, committed mother and father. It's the biggest tragedy on the planet in my opinion.

Sex is a wonderful thing but there was a reason God intended it to be experienced between 2 committed people *after* marriage.


To answer the question. Would I punish? I would not necessarily "punish". Lots of talking, praying... some tears... counseling. I would have to contact the other child's parents and I would not allow the two to ever be alone again. And I realize that if a child is determined to have sex then they will find a way... but there are plenty of things that parents can do to make it more difficult. A lot of parents make it entirely too easy. Too much freedom. Too much trust. A child needs both but only on a level which is appropriate for their age/maturity and what they've already proven to be able to handle.


:agreed:

((Mary, Mary)) I'm sorry. :( I think you are handling it very well.

I was punished as a teenager for having sex. In my religion of upbringing, ANYTHING of a sexual nature is not ok before marriage. Including what they called "touching sacred body parts."

So at age 15 I had a boyfriend. I couldn't even date till I was 16 LOL. We did some of that inappropriate touching. Not much. Through clothes mostly. My parents found out and searched my room, found very sexual notes he and I wrote to each other. Though calm, they were pure authority figures ganging up on me when they confronted me. I wasn't allowed to do anything, go anywhere, with anyone. They threatened to take my bedroom door off the hinges, threatened to call a judge (my dad told me he'd spoken to an atty) and stand me in a court room and let the judge read all those sexual notes. They also threatened to charge my bf w/tresspassing b/c I let him in my house once when they weren't home.

Somehow, I lived through that. I became sexually active w/the next bf, and lost my virginity to him at age 16. No regrets there whatsoever. But I had sure learned how to hide what I was doing and was a lot more careful. Not even our friends knew what we did.

Then the summer after I graduated from high school, I had sex w/someone 2x. (it was the same one in paragraph above lol). I felt SO GUILTY. I was deeply religious and knew how "bad" it was that I did that. I told my parents. I chose to tell them, it was just a burden I could not shoulder alone.

My mom responded by saying I was promiscuous and I must be having sex w/everyone I went out with, and I was grounded for the rest of the summer until I went off to college. :( I had to cancel my date for that night w/a very nice mormon boy. THAT was hard to explain b/c I'd also been taught lying was wrong LOL.

Don't know how to say this... but I swear I see my parents in a lot of these conservative posts. Please mamas, be gentle to your kids and most of all... understanding. Even if you believe it to be extremely morally wrong, kids are not whores for liking and wanting and having sex. Please don't forget that. Otherwise you could be ruining any chance they have at a *positive* sexual relationship at a more appropriate time in their lives. Thankfully, I was fine w/my sexuality and my parents actions did not ruin that for me. But that was just luck.

Morally, I have no problem w/teens being sexual w/in parameters. But the consequences of babies, STI's, and the emotional stuff is too much. Hell, I'm an old woman and still wonder if I ought to be messing w/those possible consequences LOL!

Their entire philosophy is based upon the concept of sexual freedom for all and supports "the rights of youth as well as adults to choose the partners with whom they wish to share and enjoy their bodies." They argue that *children* are sexual beings and it's a very natural phenomenon. Sound familiar?


I would bet that if you posted a poll at amity, you'd find MOST people believe that children are sexual beings. There is a huge difference between childhood sexuality and that which NAMBLA supports.

I don't think anything Irina said is even in the same ballpark as NAMBLA.

Children are sexual. Look at my son whenever he gets his diaper off (or when he tries to take it off just so that he can play with his penis). And, sexuality and sexual feelings are, in fact, natural. Stating that in no way constitutes support for adult men having sex with young boys.

let me clarify, because Kas, your statement is wrong, I did NOT take her for bc. I took her to get checked and to make sure that she was physically ok and was not pregnant or did not get a disease. I will not put my 13 year old on BC. IMO by doing that, I am condoning her actions. I know that some people feel that it keeps the child from getting pg, but I feel that for her at 13, it is not the right thing to do.

let me clarify, because Kas, your statement is wrong, I did NOT take her for bc. I took her to get checked and to make sure that she was physically ok and was not pregnant or did not get a disease. I will not put my 13 year old on BC. IMO by doing that, I am condoning her actions. I know that some people feel that it keeps the child from getting pg, but I feel that for her at 13, it is not the right thing to do.


I agree.

Mary, this is an impossible situation. All opinions are going to differ. If it were my daughter, I would have her on birth control. The fact of the matter is, whether I feel like I am condoning it or not, she is sexually active and condoms fail 15 to 20% of the time. Even though I was married and already had one child, a failed condom nearly ruined my life. I can't even begin to imagine what a failed condom at 14 would do to someone.

One thing I've noticed in this thread is that regardless of the path they took, most (many?) of us disagree with how our parent's handled our sexuality. Interesting.

I would bet that if you posted a poll at amity, you'd find MOST people believe that children are sexual beings. There is a huge difference between childhood sexuality and that which NAMBLA supports.

I don't think anything Irina said is even in the same ballpark as NAMBLA.

Children are sexual. Look at my son whenever he gets his diaper off (or when he tries to take it off just so that he can play with his penis). And, sexuality and sexual feelings are, in fact, natural. Stating that in no way constitutes support for adult men having sex with young boys.

I'm just guessing here (so the quoted poster will need to verify), but I am thinking that the idea that 13 year olds are sexual beings, and able to choose to have sex when they want to, with whomever they want to, means that they are able to choose to have sex with an adult. This would mean that those in support of that theory, would be in support of a 13 yr old having a sexual relationship with a 25 yr old (or older) man, provided that they both consensually want the sex. And for a hormonal 13 yr old who is being told how beautiful they are, and how special they are, by an older man, they may definitely want it. But that doesn't mean that they won't regret it later, and wish that someone had stepped in and not let them make a horrible choice when they weren't thinking clearly, which they aren't as a hormonal teenager. If they were, we could legally stop being parents when hormones kicked in and we could trust them to go out into the world and start their own lives.

I also have to say :bow: :bow: :bow: to Rebecca.

One thing I've noticed in this thread is that regardless of the path they took, most (many?) of us disagree with how our parent's handled our sexuality. Interesting.

I don't. My parents were/are strict mormons and have strong policy of no-sex until marriage. BUT. . .we talked about sex all the time (it was a favorite dinner conversation). We were told that sex is wonderful. We saw our parents being romantic, holding hands, etc. We all loved a good sex discussion and cringed when my dad would joke in the following manner:

Mom: "oh, but my head hurts!"
Dad: "nothing some good sex wouldn't cure."

We couldn't date until 16.

My mom caught me making out with my boyfriend (my bra was unsnapped) when I was 18. She said, "I think it is time for Mark to go home now." Then she sat down and talked to me about sex. I was mortified.

My reasons for wanting my children to wait has nothing to do with religion. I'm not a practicing anything (I don't fit into any religion I have yet found).

And, I think people are getting confused between a parent being disappointed and limiting opportunity for sex through increased parental involvement and decreased personal freedom with shaming, name-calling, and shunning. I see the first as being a punishment of sorts as it includes restriction of freedom. I see the second as emotional abuse and disrespect. NOT punishment, but the vibe I'm getting is that there are some who are equating the first for the second. I haven't seen anyone here suggest that the proper thing to do is to kick a child out, call her names, or publically shun her.

One thing I've noticed in this thread is that regardless of the path they took, most (many?) of us disagree with how our parent's handled our sexuality. Interesting.

Actually, mine handled it quite well. I was put on BC at 15. They (actually, I am not sure dad knew, I told only mom) were understanding, disappointed and not approving. But, not declaring the world to end or my journey to hell in the end. The ONLY way I can say my parents messed up (and it is completely not their fault), was I lost my support system when I needed it most. I was very attached to my grandfather and he was dying. I needed support. I found it in my DH (BF at teh time) both emotionally and sexually. I can't blame my parents for not being there for me. My mother was helping take care of my grandfather at home with end stage renal cancer. My dad, 18 years later, is still devastated by the death of his father.

Sexual beings: I believe all humans, regardless of age are sexual beings physically. This does not mean, to me, that they are emotionally ready for that responsibility at all times. I think nature and upbringing are vital in emotional readiness. I also feel that there are times that as adults someone may not be emotionally able to handle being a sexual being.

I agree--I would not want to put my 13yo on BC either. I think it would be sending the wrong message, although I can see why many would do it.

OP, do you believe it only happened once? I would have trouble believing that if I fou