I don't know if there are any Mamas here who've adopted older children? If you haven't been there, I'm going to sound really harsh and unfit, so please don't judge me for this. It is just so so so so so so so hard to love her sometimes. Everything can be going fine, and she's improving and doing better then all of a sudden our progress is gone and she's acting up again.

For example, we finally have gotten her to stop swearing at me, which has been a long haul. I don't think I should have to be screamed at and called a ***** by a 5-year-old, so we have worked hard on helping her see that it's absolutely unacceptable. Actually, it's having other people see this behaviour and be so shocked that's finally gotten through to her. So, that's a victory I suppose. She hasn't done it for a couple of weeks anyway.

However, tonight I went out to get school supplies, which was, as always, a freakin' nightmare. I've put it off as long as I can and they're supposed to bring them to school tomorrow. So I explain to her that I'm leaving and Daddy's going to put her to bed and everything's fine and I know she can be brave, etc. She seems okay with it. An hour and a half later I get home, hauling everything in from the car, and I can hear her gasping and hyperventilating from crying. Basically she's screamed herself sick ever since I left. Yes, I should probably feel sorry for her, but honestly this is such bull**** it just makes me angry! After two years I still have to be held hostage by her?

I understand she had abandonment issues, etc. Yes, I understand all the abuse from her birthmother that has screwed her up for her whole life. But how long do we have to suffer through this? It's time for her to act normal, because I don't have an ounce of strength to deal with it anymore. I'm just so so so so so tired of all this. Are we never past this stuff?

This is just more manipulation. She used to puke if I did anything she didn't like, like sleep downstairs or something out of the ordinary (sometimes I'd sleep on the futon with the baby because Dave went to bed late or had to get up early or something.)

And I love her. But I don't like her. It surprises me how angry she makes me. I feel like we've done everything we can to attach to her. I think I just have alot of resentment that she's cost us SO much emotionally and ease-and-happiness-wise and we still have to deal with this crap. Like we've paid the price and for what? She's still controlling everything. I still feel like I'd walk away from her quite frequently if there was an easy way out. I'm sorry to admit this guys, it's so personal and vulnerable.

I feel like she's the high price I've had to pay to have Noah, and that just breaks my heart (we adopted them together.) I don't want to be a psycho Mum who doesn't like her kid. I know it's not her fault she was born to somebody so dangerous and unfit. I really do. But I do think she has choices in how she acts now, and she's choosing to act up more than necessary. Everything she does is to somehow make a point, even if it makes no sense.

Anyway, I just had to cry here. I'm so worn out with it all.

Kerri

No judgements here mama. That is a hard row to hoe. I have two friends who have adopted neglected babies and I see how they struggle. Your situation sounds much more difficult than either of theirs. I have great admiration for what you have done so far. I hope you can find some peace in your household.

Thanks for responding. It's usually not this bad. I see improvements in lots of ways. But when I think we're doing better and then we have an episode like this, it's even MORE discouraging because I hoped we were past it. It's hard to explain.

Also, this is just very poor timing because I'm presenting a workshop at an adoption conference today and my view is very clouded this morning. I hardly slept at all last night, and now I'm supposed to encourage people to adopt older children? Ugh. I feel like warning them to run screaming from the idea like I wish I had sometimes. I guess I have to laugh or I'll just keep crying. LOL.

Kerri

While we have not adopted, I will admit to sometimes feeling like this with Nico. As much as I love her, I have WAY less tolerance for her at times. (((hugs))) Sorry you're feeling this way!

(((hugs))) mama, I know what it is like to stuggle with such difficult feelings about your own children :hbeat: I hope you found some ways to convey your heart to the group of potential adoptive families. I know what a burden that responsibility can be.
While it is a different situation, I take calls from parents in the NICU who are deciding whether to raise, or put up for adoption, their little ones with Prader-Willi Syndrome. I feel an intense responsibility to not sugar coat the reality but it is hard to get across how amazing the experience is also how intense and all consuming it is.

Up until a year ago I would tell them that by the end of a hard day I could come back to seeing that I am blessed to be raising this beautiful child. Now, I honestly tell them that sometimes it is not until the end of the week that I can pull my head above water for long enough to see the purpose and the blessings of my path. I am prepared that in the future there may pass a month or even a year before my path still like the one I am supposed to be on. It is very hard emotionally and I am sending some of my hearts strength to you right now :hbeat:

It went okay today, I was honest, but still encouraging I think. I wish someone had told me it would be this hard, so I wanted to be more realistic about the whole thing too.

I don't know. I don't feel like much of an example right now. And I'm so sick of her behaviour when I go out, that I've told her I'm just going to keep leaving her until she can learn to act better. Honestly, there is no reason for her to have a tantrum like that. She just can't handle not having her own way and I'm **** sick of it and maybe some practice will do her good? Or at least help her appreciate me or give me five minutes peace, even if I have to pay because she's worse when I get home. Not very AP of me, but I'm close to breaking point these days.

Yikes. Is this really the life I chose? What the hell was I thinking? Oh yeah, nothing. I didn't have a clue it would be anything like this.

And Meeshi, I totally know what you mean. All the kids can be doing the same thing, but it's Naomi that's bothering me! It just takes so long to attach to bigger kids I think.

It's so sad. These are the kids that need families the most, but they can just be so unlovable.

Kerri

While we have not adopted, I will admit to sometimes feeling like this with Nico. As much as I love her, I have WAY less tolerance for her at times. (((hugs))) Sorry you're feeling this way!

Meeshi~WOW! I thought I was the only one that felt this way. I've been wanting to post/ask others about it, but I'm so scared of sounding like the wicked step-mother. I'm sorry that you feel the same, but glad that I'm not the only one.

Kerri~I have great admiration for your strength to provide a good home for this little girl. Hoping that she realizes the security and love that she now has......:hug:

Tobey, being a step-parent is not an easy thing at times. It seems a lot easier to side with the child that is biologically yours, some times. I try my best to treat everyone equally, but on the other side of things, I expect more from Nico because she is older, you know? I do love Nico so much, but it can be a struggle to treat her as if she were my very own child.

I am so sorry, mama. I don't even know what to say. Just know that I read and I care. I know that's not much, though.

I have some friends in Maryland who had to adopt the older sibling as well in order to get the younger infant they were interested in. They have had a really horrible time with their older son and will probably have to place him in a live in situation as he is too much to handle. :(

He was drug exposed and sexually and physically abused. They can not trust him with other kids unless they are RIGHT there at all times.

Hugs, mama,

Are there any types of programs in Canada which could be of help to your dd and your family?

Kerri, I am so sorry that you are struggling still. It sounds like your daughter is a classic RAD child. Is she getting therapy? Are you? You deserve a safe place to vent.

I'm probably the last person to be offering words of encouragment right now. My son will be 8 in a few days, I've had him for nearly five years, and today his psychiatrist told me that he feels he will only get worse and I should start looking for a group home for him. He's the third doctor to tell me that in a year, and at this point I'm ashamed to admit I'm actually considering it.

Kerri,:big hug:

I think what you are doing is one of the hardest things in the world. My heart is with you and I respect you. You are doing your best in a difficult situation. Adopted older abused children is so noble, but so...hard!

I wish I had advice.

Thanks guys,

And Logan, thanks for your input, as scary as it is. I hate that these kids are damaged before we even get a chance to try and parent them. :( It's just the saddest thing that these are the ones who need us the most, but are the most unappealing to parent. It's hard when you don't bond to them because they are so antagonistic and you just don't feel like they're yours the same as the others. It's just hard.

On the other hand, I do blame my husband for alot of this. He is immature and teases and jokes around and has no impulse control. He has a scary loud voice and Naomi just doesn't want to be around him. But instead of him trying to change so she can get to know and love him, he just feels rejected and doesn't try. So he's in a place where he thinks she hates him so he'll just hate her back. Of course I'm exaggerating it, but that's kind of how it feels. And I'm in the middle. It's the single hardest thing our marriage has survived and it's the ONLY thing we fight about anymore. He just can't be bothered making an effort for someone who doesn't like him. It's so complicated and emotional.

Kerri

:eyes: Aw, I'm so sorry Kerri! OK, time to finally implement some therapy here! It's not getting better with time, and you and Dave and Naomi and the whole family really needs to get some help. I think you need to beg, borrow or steal the money to go to a good family psychologist who can work with all of you. Out of town, probably. And not cheap - but entirely necessary. She's not a lost cause, she's just got special needs.:sadhug:

(((((((((Kerri))))))))))

((((((((Logan))))))))

I have two good friends and a sister going through this right now. It's beyond difficult.

Belinda, you're right that we need probably need therapy, but between episodes I feel like everything's fine and we don't need to. It's silly to keep going through the same pattern, but I keep thinking things are better. And they ARE improving. ALOT. Man, I did not think we'd survive the first year. Holy Crap, was that ever torture.

Naomi's our daughter and we love her. And honestly, I talk to lots of people going through this and they ARE getting therapy and they're in the same situation as us ANYWAY. It's specialized therapy that we need and noone seems to be able to help us. Actually, Naomi and Dave need to just connect, and having Daddy-Daughter dates and stuff like that helps tremendously if he can be forced into it. The problem is between her and him. I just get involved because I feel like I have to mediate everything. And I'm the one reading the books and worrying about the long-term implications of every little thing.

And most of the time, things are just fine. I think we're just at the point now of a regular blended family where it's not perfect and people clash, but it's still a family.

I just had to vent and scream when I first started this thread, and it did fill its purpose in that I got it out. LOL.

Kerri

Well it all came crashing down today again. Good times baby!

The school called me to come get Naomi this morning. She was having a huge tantrum where she hit her teacher, screamed for a good half hour, kicked the principal and vice-principal, called the principal a ****ing b!tch, etc. Oh the public shame of it all.

They also called my husband because I didn't hear the phone the first time it rang (I was in the yard painting the fence.) So we both showed up there, Dave from work, me and Noah covered in paint. Had a big talk with the principal, teacher, vice-principal.

The GOOD thing is that now this has happened at school, they can document it and try to get us help through the school district. They know us and want to help, but really had no idea how bad it was until it happened in front of everyone. Last year it happened a couple of times, but the principal and vice-principal weren't involved. This time they saw it themselves, so reports will be made, etc. We're going to have a meeting with a counsellor, the teacher, principal, vice-principal, a First Nations support worker (because Naomi has native heritage), and Dave and I. Hopefully this will be a glimmer of hope and they'll help us get some support. We need it.

I've never seen a 5-year-old get suspended before. Especially over not wanting to colour a brown dog. It's just so out of proportion. Sigh.

Kerri

Wow.:big hug:

Lets hope this is the start of something better!

That's awful but good. I know it's embarrassing, but sometimes our kids have to prove themselves as having problems at school - and she did it in a big way!

Did I tell you Wade's been behaving so badly at school that they're actually INCREASING his teacher's aide hours this next term? It was supposed to reduce, they gave us a short-term fix of 5 extra hours per week, with it disappearing this term. But instead, he's increasing by 5 hours - so he's going to have 25 hours per week!

It all came to a head a month or so ago when his teacher was having panic attacks trying to deal with him, and the principal called the ministry of education because Wade was being SO AWFUL. So you're not alone. And they didn't believe us either, until it got to tipping point and he was behaving as badly as he was feeling, and they HAD to deal with it. It's amazing how quickly things get done when the principal gets involved!

So don't feel embarrassed - she's got a Big Red Flag to services now! I'm so sorry it's not perfect, but really, this is the truth - she does behave like this, and she does need help.

XXXOOO

Kerri;
You responded to some posts I made about Alex, so you know I've been there. Just yesterday things go so out of control with Alex that I had to send him to nap early just so I could calm down. The thing is, Alex doesn't throw tantrums, but he whines constantly, repeats everything 500,000 times and get physically worked up so quickly (running around, jumping on things, rolling over things, etc). I feel like such a failure sometimes, because this precious, beautiful, needy child has been placed in our home to love, protect and raise and I struggle so much to feel what I believe I should toward him.

Our situations are different, but our emotional struggles sound the same.

Logan--if you read this, I don't think you should feel guilty about thinking about what the Drs have said AT ALL. THREE people have told you this in a year...think about it, consider it, look into it...that doesn't mean you have to do it, but it will help you to be prepared, yk? Dear, dear Walter.

Jeni

Guys, I NEED input today. It's a holiday, my parents are out of the country, and I can't get help from the school or anywhere else today. Tell me how to handle this . . .

Yesterday Naomi's fingers were so bitten and bleeding from biting her nails. I was totally shocked how bad they were, maybe even infected. Anyway, this morning, trying to be a fun and loving and goal-oriented Mama, I said that if she could stop biting her nails by the first weekend in November, we'd go shopping for a beautiful dress. Truth is, she's never been shopping with me and picked out something. I usually buy her stuff from thrift stores or we get clothes given to us. So I thought this would be fun, wrote it on the calendar, etc. I stopped biting my nails younger than this for a sundae from McDonald's, so I really thought it would work.

It totally backfired I guess, because she started absolutely RAGING that she wanted it NOW and would NEVER stop biting her nails. I very calmly explained that was her choice and that I couldn't make her do anything, but she would be rewarded if she stopped. So she screamed and swore at me that I don't love her and she hates our family and I'm a f***ing ass****, etc. I said she couldn't be in the living room if she was going to talk like that because honestly it just sucks and I don't think I should have to hear it, nor the other kids. After about a half hour, she came out, said she was sorry, calmed down, said she wanted to try to stop, etc. Everything's good, we move on with our day.

We went to a friend's house who makes hemp jewellery and my 3 older kids got to choose the beads they wanted for their necklace they're getting for their birthdays next week. They picked up hazelnuts from their trees, etc. We even rented a movie on the way home. The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. We saw it at the movies, they all loved it and we've read the bookd, etc. (I always think things will motivate her, but they don't, apparently.)

As soon as we get in the car, she starts biting her nails. She's looking me straight in the eye, and totally challenging me. I said that I know she wants to watch the movie, so she needs to try to stop. She determinedly continues to stare at me whilst biting her nails. Seeing as I've never seen her bite her nails before (she apparently does it in bed at night), I know this is just a way to piss me off. So I said that I know she wants to watch the movie, so she needs to stop before we get home or she'll have to watch it tomorrow, not today. No change, she continues to chew away to show me she's not listening. I said, "Naomi is making a choice to have a rest when we get home and not watch the movie" to be sure she understood, and she of course kept on chewing with a hateful look on her face.

We get home, I say that the boys can watch the movie, but she needs to rest instead. More raging: I'm a mean b***h. She hates me. She never will love me. I hate her. She's leaving this family. I never want to buy her a dress. She loves to bite her nails, etc. I carry her into her room and close to door and try to ignore it until she calms down. She throws a picture and a chair (now broken) and breaks a hole in the new door. I go in there and try to restrain her so she stops breaking things. Doesn't change anything, except she's screaming that I'm breaking her arm, which I'm really not. (I was only trying to hold her arms down because she was trying to hit, break, throw, etc.) Whatever. I lose my cool and leave again because I feel like throwing her at the now-broken new door, honestly.

Obviously, this has all backfired, but I have three lovable darling boys, who while mischevious, do deserve to have fun. I'm sick of them missing out because of her. So they're watching the movie and she might be able to watch it tomorrow. But I hate doing this and being mean. I want to let her watch it to shut her up, but she just learns to fight longer that way. I'm trying to look at the bigger picture, but it hurts that I tried to give them a special day and this is how it goes.

:(

Kerri

:big hug: I am so sorry mama.....that has to be so hard to go through on a regular basis...and I have no advice...just hugs....and prayers :hug:

Kerri, I have been reading this since you first posted. I just want to give you (and Logan) a huge hug.

Kerri, hugs to you! You really need some support with your dd. I don't know much about her, but, like Logan, she sounds classic RAD. RAD kids need to be parented differently than "normal" kids....what works with normal kids simply doesn't work with RAD kids...

There are many excellent books and resources for RAD; I found the book by Nancy Thomas extremely helpful when we had RAD foster kids.

Please, get as much help as you can...find a good counselor who is familiar with RAD and can help guide you. It's a tough, tough road, but it can be done!

Some links for you:
RadKid.Org: Reactive Attachment Disorder & Detachment Issues (http://www.radkid.org/index.html)
Foster Parents Community (http://www.fosterparents.com) they have a discussion fourm that's great, including a section just on attachment issues

Kerri, hugs to you! You really need some support with your dd. I don't know much about her, but, like Logan, she sounds classic RAD. RAD kids need to be parented differently than "normal" kids....what works with normal kids simply doesn't work with RAD kids...

There are many excellent books and resources for RAD; I found the book by Nancy Thomas extremely helpful when we had RAD foster kids.

Please, get as much help as you can...find a good counselor who is familiar with RAD and can help guide you. It's a tough, tough road, but it can be done!

Honestly, I didn't find Nancy Thomas' book helpful. I haven't found many of them helpful. Nancy writes of using these techniques even on children who have committed murder and molested other children, but what I find frustrating about her book and many others is that there is no "plan B". She recommends strong sitting. Well, great, but what do you do with the child that refuses to sit, and then when you send him to his room to "rest", he breaks out the windows, urinates on the floor and punches a hole in the sheet rock? Or the child that when you tell them that they can eat what you prepared for dinner or wait until breakfast proceeds to hurl the plate across the kitchen, sweeps everything else off the table on his way out, and then screams and screams and SCREAMS for hours, until the neighbors are complaining and your other child starts asking to live with her grandparents out of state.

Yes, you're right about that! What I found helpful was more that she "gets" RAD kids, kwim? I was able to read and go....yes, yes, that describes B! It made me feel better, if that makes sense.

IMO, some RAD kids cannot be in a family setting and should be in a theraputic home or the only child in a home. I know that's unpopular, but it's how I feel.

We had a RAD child that was like you described...when there weren't any toys/objects to break, he'd go for walls, windows, doors, etc...which was not good considering we were living in a rental home! Fortunately my neighbors were rarely home, but there was a night where he screamed so loud for so long....dh could hear him at the end of the block (and our windows were shut!). We were his fourth home in four weeks due to his severe behavior, and we were only able to handle him for three weeks before I had him moved. It was totally unfair to my other children (bios and foster) to live like that.

So, the books didn't help me deal with his behavior, but they did make me understand him, and understand why nothing I did helped, lol!

We won't take RAD kids anymore. Someday, when our kids are grown and out of the house, I might consider it.

Yes, you're right about that! What I found helpful was more that she "gets" RAD kids, kwim? I was able to read and go....yes, yes, that describes B! It made me feel better, if that makes sense.

IMO, some RAD kids cannot be in a family setting and should be in a theraputic home or the only child in a home. I know that's unpopular, but it's how I feel.

We had a RAD child that was like you described...when there weren't any toys/objects to break, he'd go for walls, windows, doors, etc...which was not good considering we were living in a rental home! Fortunately my neighbors were rarely home, but there was a night where he screamed so loud for so long....dh could hear him at the end of the block (and our windows were shut!). We were his fourth home in four weeks due to his severe behavior, and we were only able to handle him for three weeks before I had him moved. It was totally unfair to my other children (bios and foster) to live like that.

So, the books didn't help me deal with his behavior, but they did make me understand him, and understand why nothing I did helped, lol!

We won't take RAD kids anymore. Someday, when our kids are grown and out of the house, I might consider it.


Unfortunately, I have learned that unless I can pay for residential treatment or have insurance that will pay, the only other way to get him into a residential facility is for me to legally abandon him and go to court to have my parental rights terminated. I can also be charged with abandonment and have my other child removed from the home. Only once he is in legal custody of the state of Louisiana will Medicaid pay for residential treatment in a group home.

Logan, I'm so, so sorry, that's just horrible!!! I know of many people in your shoes, it's totally ridiculous! I used to work in a group home, and that's what one family had to do to have their child placed there, it's just awful.

I usually don't post much here, but I am so moved by your story. I am impressed at your courage and kindness and optimism in taking in a child like your daughter.

I'm posting the link to this website: WhileChildrenSleep (http://whilechildrensleep.homestead.com/)
I did telephone counseling with Jan Hunt for a while and she suggested the site and it was really helpful with some garden variety new baby issues. Obviously, I have no idea if it will be helpful for a situation like yours, and I am almost embarrassed to post it at all because I am totally ignorant about adoption of older children and don't even know what RAD stands for.

Again, I am amazed by your kindness and willingness to do what's difficult to help a child.

Thanks Inezyv. RAD is Reactive Attachment Disorder, which means children have disorganized or no attachment. There is so much that we take for granted in our children that simply comes from them trusting their caregivers (parents.) Most of the people in prisons have RAD. Most of the children in foster care or adopted as older children have it too. Basically these kids knew they couldn't rely on anyone else in their little world. :(

Thanks so much for your kindness and the link. I will look it up. I appreciate your help and I'm getting so desperate I'll read anything! LOL.

Kerri