I don't like public school. My kids love it, and I have let it happen because I don't have the space or the money to keep them all home. But I am just not a public school parent. Watching a very sweet, and obviously patient teacher rush my daughter through questions she knows at home, and having her miss answers she already has learned made me angry. I don't care if she reads before age 6... I don't care if she doesn't read until age 8. That is not what reading is about... and I remember my oldest getting pushed and even being labeled because he knew the letters but couldn't put them together until he was 8. Even then I stood proud and told both his 1st and 2nd grade teachers to stuff it becuase my son would read when he was ready. He was put in "title" classrooms and made to feel stupid... and by 4th grade was reading at an 8th grade level. Was that because of the teachers and the title programs? Hell no! That was because in this house we all love to read. And he was just waiting until he could do it well to start. Now I am seeing the same thing happen with Cyan and it angers me. It really really does. I wanted to tell her teacher that she would come back next year. I wanted to yell and say "will you give her a second? She feels rushed!" I wanted to pull her out of there. My children know where peaches, and pork come from... they have already learned how to make eggs for themselves, and what the birth of a cow/seed/human looks like. They both can make a pair of pants with help. My kids know things that most of these kids won't know until they are in their 20s (if EVER) and some parents shy from even telling their children what their hamburger is made of becuase god forbid they realise they are eating Bessy from next door. But reading is what is important to these just turned 5 yr olds. READING. Blech. The entire system makes me sick.

And they wonder why I don't volenteer more. As if they don't have enough going against them with 18 just turned 5 yr olds in their classroom without a parent sitting around steaming and pointing out all of the flaws of the system.

God, sometimes I just want to move out into the country and teach my children what is really important.

*sigh*

nak :hug: Another reason we plan to HS.

((Hugs Val)). I am a homeschooling parent at heart myself. I hate school. I hate it when Beth knows something and gets rushed through or panics at teh word test. But, I volunteer constantly to keep me in their face reminding them they can do better. But, we are also at a private school where the largest class up to 6th grade is 13 kids and the teachers will meet with you any time and listen to you.

This is the reason we pulled my oldest out of 1st grade after 2 weeks. He can read, just not as well as they would like. He can add, subtract, multiply. He loves science. The teacher didn't care about that. They only teach reading, reading and more reading. If he couldn't read the directions to his work sheet, she wouldn't read them. He'd get frustrated and not do the work. If she had told him what to do he could have finished it. He also takes his time sometimes to figure things out. He can't do that at PS. They have a time limit. Complete furstation on all of our parts. We sent him because he wanted to go. Let's just say he hasn't asked to go back. I'm sorry you are having to deal with it. Hopefully, it'll get better soon.

nak
(((hugs))) Val! That would have infuriated me!!!

I am so with you. Yesterday, I picked up DS #2 from his first day of kindergarten. He is labeled as a bus rider, and I didn't send a note saying that I was going to pick him up (my bad). I waved at him from the hallway so he would see me there, and then a few minutes later, his teacher came hauling him out of the room by the hand, with him crying, oblivious to the fact that she knocked his head on the door handle as she brought him out. She, obviously frazzled, said, "Liam's had a rough day. I need you to let me know when you're going to pick him up because we had some confusion." Liam was bawling, and I got him to go upstairs to his brother's room so we wouldn't miss him before he was dismissed for the bus. He cried and cried while we waited, and, as it turned out, I think what he was really upset about, was that he had a scrape on his arm caused by some boys from his class pushing him on the playground. I asked him if he told the teacher, and he said his teacher wasn't there (the teachers are never at recess), and I asked him if he told the grownup on duty, and he told me there were no adults on the playground. Obviously, there were adults on the playground, but apparently none in sight. He was so upset, that pretty soon I was crying, and so when Killian's teacher stepped out to say hello, I was practically unable to speak and wiping tears from my eyes. Later, after he settled down, he told me that he did some fun things at school.

Killian told us he had a great first day of school. When he was in kindergarten, he never really adjusted. He cried almost every day when I took him to school (partly the cause of my crying with Liam). I hate that I let that happen. He struggles with handwriting. He is so incredibly bright, but I don't think people get it because they're looking at his handwriting/written work. They have timed math tests (basically to prepare for standardized testing) that he does badly on every time because he takes a long time to write the numbers. He has been placed in title classrooms with kids who really are struggling with basic concepts, and I wonder how he can possibly be challenged where he needs to be with 20 other kids in the room???

I planned to keep him home last year, and, stupidly, when he said he wanted to go to school on the 2nd day of halfway doing anything, we put him back in. I am not convinced that that was the end of our homeschooling days, but we will see. As it turned out, he had a great teacher last year that he really liked. Hopefully, the same will hold true this year, too.

Back to Liam, I emailed the teacher, because she had said he had a rough day, and I wanted to know what she meant by that, especially considering that she knew nothing of the playground incident (which had occurred at final recess, not long before I picked him up). She said he was having problems with standing in line and was wandering the room and so forth. She assured me that this is very normal, and not anything to worry about, but she assumed he had a hard day because of all the new rules and faces. She told me she would make sure to point the recess aide out to Liam and have her keep an eye out or say hi to him so he would be aware of her presence. That's all good, but it still breaks my heart. I hate it. I hate that my 5 year and 3 month old little boy needs to learn to stand in line and stay on task. I hate that there aren't enough eyes on the playground to notice kids pushing eachother.

DH thinks there is nothing wrong with public school. He totally believes that kids have to learn this stuff so they can survive in the "real world," and that whole load of crap. I hate it. The only thing he really has a problem with is the teaching to testing that goes on...

How awful to see and experience. I homeschool my 8 yo daughter, but my boys (3 and 6) are in school. So far, they've had fabulous teachers and really good experiences. Something my daughter enountered only 1 of the 5 years she was in school (mostly preschools). So I am always a bit nervous.

My 6 yo was in the same autism classroom for 3 years with 8 kids, 3 teachers and was loved and encouraged constantly. This year, he is in a new school, so we'll see.

Val -- I hope that some peace comes into that classroom as the school year moves along and that Cyan has a positive experience.

nak...

we are struggling with the idea of public vs homeschool right now too.
:hug:

Oh, horrible and frustrating! I am so sorry!

Doesn't John Bowlby say that it only takes 100 hours to learn to read, once the kid is ready? Aren't there things saying "Don't push reading until 7 or 8?"

My kids are public school. But, we picked a house in a neighborhood with a good school. We are paying over a quarter more than our neighbors three blocks away, who track to a different school.

If you dislike teaching to the test, please, break out your politics. You can call the teacher, the principal, the school board, and they are helpless in the face of the legislature. No Child Left Behind, the grand master of high stakes testing, is currently, right now, being challenged in 3(4?) states, as an unfunded mandate, and various other objections. The least objection is that it doesn't work, and that it distorts the learning process. It did in Texas, it did elsewhere. It's an election year. Bush has 30% credibility ratings. He's vulnerable. His policies are vulnerable. Politicians left (hightower), right ( schlafly's eagle forum) and in the middle ( us, here) hate NCLB. If you really hate it, call your washington reps. Call your state reps. They'll get a spine if they know people care. It's a breakable law, an almost unenforceable law ( the gov't is bankrupt, and really ready to NOT FUND programs) They don't even have to vote down the law. They just have to stop it's funding. Seriously. That's it.

Before you call, organize your objections. An outline format helps: big I, example A, example B, point II, example A, example B. When you do the examples, do one from your life, and then one that a single, newly graduated aide can relate to, even tangentially. ( One I had was " You don't want to answer the phone when you are sick, do you?')( It wasn't about school) But anything where they can agree with you, and then, they can learn from your anecdote. If it's organized, they can take notes, and then use it in debate with the other staffers. The other staffers are usually the ones writing the policies. If you make it easy for them to be informed, smart, and organized, they can carry the debate. Then, the rep gets the "best of" of their debates, and carries it onto the house floor.

good luck,
ari

Having been a public school teacher before I had dd, I can say that students and teachers are really one of the last concern of the admin/politicians. It's all about the tests, the scores and the numbers.

I was teaching 10th grade Bio to a class of 35 students. All with IEPs and learning issues. I had one boy that didn't read above a 4th grade level. Most of them weren't much better. And yet, I was told that I *had* to teach them the SAME material as all other other Bio kids. I had to give them the same worksheets, same labs, same tests. And I had NO aids in my classroom. I was totally alone. I was expected to teach them the same way AND have them score the same on their tests as my other classes. THEY COULDN'T EVEN READ THE QUESTIONS! And I wasn't allowed to read them aloud unless it was on their IEP. Geez.

Being a public school teacher taught me one very important lesson. That I will NEVER send my child to one. Sad, but true. Out here, many teachers homeschool their kids. Now *that* says something.

I'm sorry Val. I wish there was a way to help or magic words to make it better. :hug:

What my dream is, is to get out of the city, have a small farm with chickens and a huge garden, and pull them out. Perhaps do a home school curric, but mostly just get them out of there. I keep thinking though, that by the time we are stable and monitarily able to do this, the only one that won't WANT to go to public school will be the baby. Beucase the other two will be used to the social interaction, and for me as a child, that was what school was all about.

I love my kids, and in the summer time we always hit a stride of being together where I get my time, they get their time, and we get time together. It hits a certian groove... so I know I can do it, but I can't do it, living in the city, while dh is in academy, pregnant. You know? So the reality is, they go to public school this year. But man... I hate it.

I was a public school teacher too. In a very low income area and only for preschool (headstart) and Kindergarten... the stress was SO high. I don't blame the teacher at all... I wasn't beind snide when I said she seemed patient and kind. She DID seem patient and kind, but she needed to test three kids for their 'reading' levels in a half hour. That doesn't lend for support of the students skills. And I remember pushing kids through tests like that. I remember all of the horror of doing that, and testing a big group of kids (esp Headstart... OMG they do SO many test on those kids before they are 'in'). It just breaks my heart that another beautiful and brillant kid is going to be stuck in mediocure hell becuase the teachers don't have the time to allow her to think first.

It is just so sad.

It just breaks my heart that another beautiful and brillant kid is going to be stuck in mediocure hell becuase the teachers don't have the time to allow her to think first.

It is just so sad.

This is exactly it. I so struggle with this. My DH and I don't see eye to eye on this, though he is a brilliant man, and went through it himself. He remembers being in school and being bored out of his skull when teachers would spend 3 days on concepts he got on the first example. Then he would stop paying attention and miss something because they'd finally moved on to something else...I've asked him, what if instead of having to spend all that time waiting for the new stuff and then missing it, you could have been given it right away?! Imagine what he could have done in the same amount of time! I think of him and friends of his from high school (I didn't know him in high school). He has friends, too, who were brilliant, but were basically made to feel their whole lives like they didn't fit. So, they grow up with chips on their shoulders and have found bigger and better ways to act out as they get older. What if they had been encouraged, nurtured? What if instead of teachers getting p***ed off because they were smarter than them, they were encouraged to run with their ideas??? Where would they be now?

This was the argument, in part, that finally convinced DH to let me try homeschooling last year, but he is afraid, and much prefers them to be in school. His mom homeschooled several of his siblings in a very unschooled sort of way, and some of them, now, as adults, are not happy about it. I've had to explain that I am not his mother :rolleyes:, and that whole bit. However, at this point, there are a lot of issues that appear overwhelming, and with a new baby coming in January, it seems way too much to even think about. For the moment, DS#1 is really happy with his class, and his teacher seems really good. I think DS#2 will adjust better than his brother to kindergarten as well. But, I just feel in my heart that they should be home, and I think that it just may happen eventually.

I totally know what you mean. I mean Don and I both got through school and then did amazingly in college because we could move more at our own pace, and not be held back by teachers having to teach to other classes... if we didn't like the way a class was taught, we had the inititive to go and talk to the teacher about it and get something done. We were paying for our education at that point after all... you know? But in highschool, both of us were "mediocure" students. (B average at best) Stundents who graduate college with highest honors and/or graduate with a BA and a 4 yr old 2 quarters early are not "mediocure" students.... you know?

I know my children are dealing with the same stuff. And with Alex, the social aspect has really made a difference. He NEEDS more human interaction than me at home every day. Needs it, craves it, wants it. Cyan is a do it herself'er and it kills me that although she loves school, they don't cater to that need at all. It is a do-it-with-the-group-the-way-the-group-is-doing-it world. And on top of that, as fast as you can (or can't in many cases). Ugh. Anyway... I have not said any of this stuff in front of her, because if she knows how unhappy I am about it, it will taint her experience. And because there is very little option, I can't afford to do that. So I seeth in private, hoping against hope that before she looses that love of learning that I adore about her she will get an amazing teacher... and perhaps that will be me.

Val

on the reading in ps thing....

I was in first grade and I could just barely read. they made me skip recess to stay and stuggle. they made me sit in the hall to do it. alone. it sucked. eventuallly though everything clicked and I could read it all. after it clicked I could read much much bette then my peers, and I got better scores on my reading comprihension tests then just about anyone. (I still cant spell though :) )

Tash I am still that way. I think it is a mild form of dyslexia (can't spell that to save my life). Alex has it too, but Cyan does not. It is passed down in my family from mother to daughter and then to my son... and I feel for any child like us who doesn't have a parent with the same trouble. I was really able to advocate for my children in public school becasue I knew what they were going through. I EXPECT the teachers to not degrade my children like that, and I am a *****y parent if they do. I do advocate for them, and I know how and when it is necessary.

I read John Holt and was pretty sure that I wanted to homeschool DD, even unschool.
DH is totally on board after watching his older kids struggle with public school (even though its supposed to be a "good" school). Its just sad to see their spark of curiosity and creativity go out due to bordom and stressful testing. Thats really what its come down to for them. They cram for the tests and then just hang out after the tests are over. They even go to practice testing school after their regular school. Yuch. A very bizarre system. I really dont understand how this relates to surviving in the real world at all.
Ultimatly for us DD is going to have to decide for herself. Thankfully we have a good Waldorf School in the area. So her choices are homeschool or Waldorf.
It might be worth looking into.
I know our school has a great finacial help plan.

I have taught basic English at an open-admission business college for about 10 years now. I cannot tell you the number of students I have had truly believed they were incapable when it came to writing. For most, all it took was a little work and someone to take the time to help them figure out where they had problems and how to fix them, and, suddenly, they realized they weren't dumb or incapable. Many of my students were older, and carried with them the feeling that they were stupid for years.

It's truly sad.

BlueRoseMama (btw I love your name)- we had to practice spelling aloud (plus thats how spelling bees are) I CAN NOT spell aloud. well, I can spell my name aloud, thats it. when writing analog (like most tests) I can spell better then aloud, but not really. however give me a keyboard (and when I dont have a wiggly baby on my lap) I can spell much better. most errors then are typeos. some are still just bad spelling and laziness in looking it up.

my mom did avocate a bit. I wanted to be homeschooled. I knew (and still think to a degree, except thats where I met my husband) that it would have been better for me. I dont learn well by being lectured to. but my mom and I dont get along well enough for me to have been at home that much. teachers have a lot to handle, but there were some things that really should have been unacceptable.

My mom advocated... but she also pulled me from every school that bothered her. I went to 2 Kindergartens (this was explainable. I had an awful allergy to a plant that was in force right behind the field), 2 schools in 1st grade, 1 school in 2nd, homeschooled in 3rd, another school in 4th, another school in 5th, and then was actually stable for 6,7,& 8... then went to 6 different highschools in 4 years (which honestly was not her fault at all, I moved like 25 times and was homeless for over a year, which funny enough, was the only time I was in a school for more than a year besides 6, 7, & 8th grade).

I vowed that my children would be more stable than that, but my oldest has gotten the same crap that I went through. I have NEVER pulled him in the middle of the year, but he has already been to three schools and he is only in 5th grade. Less than me by a long shot... but still too many in my head. I hated making friends by highschool. It becomes so tedious, and if you arn't in a school for long it doesn't matter what people think of you anyway. Imagine the trouble that idea got me into as a teen with a split family and a HUGE 5 year custody battle... add a baby and you have my teen life in a nutshell.

Good times. :rolleyes:

Anyway... I have stoped a lot of the things that happened to me as a student, and other things I have just allowed them to happen because the alt of me pulling him from every school that doesn't hold up to my standards just isn't realistic. Sad as that is. So I give him tons of art, reading, and writing encouragment when he is at home, I teach him to garden, and to cook, and I let the comments about his handwriting at his school confrences slide right off my back.

I so wish I didn't have to, but Cyan I could home school. Alex? I would probobly drown him with in a year. :p (JK... but he is MUCH more high maintance than she)

Val

I was homeschooling this year (again), but right now, my kids are sitting in their respective public school classrooms.

I understand your concerns, etc. I, too, changed schools all the time when I was growing up.

I'm off to take a shower so I can go over to my kid's school and tell the lunch lady to help my dd with her lunch ID number. It sucks when adults can't just be of help to little kids like they're *paid* to be. Ick.

I know how you feel Val. I h/s my 16 year old because at this point she can figure for herself.
College is going to be January we are hoping she can do concurrent. The boys....all in public school

Thus far all is well. 1 in high school and 1 in 3 and 1 in K.
My hubby felt after treatment this summer I should take the year off and see where I am led. It woudl give me a chance to heal.

I am so glad so far so good, but the torment in my heart was terrible all summer.

Your post really struck a chord with me as I am struggling with my oldest starting K this year. I always intented to homeschool, but am trying to start a midwifery apprenticeship and am taxed by my external and internal comitments. My ds had his "testing" yesterday and is schedualed to stat on Monday. Left and right we have run into offensive bureaucratic (just had to go go look that up...I can't spell either) bullsh*t. Everthing about this decision breaks my heart and my dh's but still we are trudging forward. I am comforted to know that you and others are stuggling with the same issues. I hope we all can find some peace.:hug:

Okay, I am not a teacher. I am not equipped at all to teach my child. I sort of go on the feral curiousity method. But>>>I DO KNOW LOBBYING>

Puh lease, I begs youse, all of youse, what you don't like- call your legislature. Write. Write your legislature. Write the paper. Write the free paper. Call in to radio.

GWB's big comparison, the one he's trying for, is McKinley. And McKinley was such a trainwreck, that he spawned the resistance- the Progressives. And when you talk about what you want for your child- each and every one of you is talking about a humane, civilized, child-centric school- classic, classic progressive. They won once, and there isn't a reason we can't win again.

High stakes testing is a real estate scam. NCLB is set up so that 85% of schools fail. 15 % pass. Can you imagine the home prices in those school areas? Also, if the schools have a reputation as failing, how can you ask the legislature to "throw good money after bad'? Let's see, principals disappear dropouts, for one. And, goodness, dropouts make easy to abuse, to poorly pay, and to mistreat, workers. And, furthermore, they don't usually have the confidence to vote.

So, call. Please. call. If you have a decent rep, they might even help you figure out who else to call.

Texas hs a notoriously badly funded and wretchedly run system (overall) Some bright spots. I went to the legislature last year, asked at the information desk who my rep was, and where his office was. I then asked what his position on funding was, since I didn't know anything about it. His office explained what his position was, and where to find the committee, and who was on the committee. Also, they told me usually they heard from lobbyists, not regular people.

Although, I don't know how bad the system is. I was in good schools, and my kids are in good schools. And even the bad schools have good football programs, so they aren't totally "not responsive to the community." Also, one thing educators get bent about in Texas is that teachers don't need a teaching degree. But that meant my first chem teacher had a masters, and my speech teacher won at nationals. Someone in each department won a national championship, each year. The magnet here has a film masters ( phd?) who recruits college instructors for specialty classes. Although, again, that's a bright spot in a dark puddle.

My kids haven't started high stakes testing yet, but I'm ttrying to break it. If we all work together--it's a brittle, pointless law. It shouldn't stand up.

ari

I wrote Jennifer Shmoo of the Vegan Lunchbox and asked her what she was doing for homeschool because she said that little Shmoo goes to school one day a week at the public school and she meets with the teacher once a month. And this is what she just wrote me back:

Here's an article I found on the web that describes the difference between homeschooling and parent partnership programs:

http://heraldnet.com/stories/06/02/16/100loc_a1homeschool001.cfm

"Parent partnerships are alternative programs that identify the parent as the child's primary teacher. Students are considered public school students, however, and use the school's materials and teachers. Parents who choose these programs say they like the return on their tax money, as well as accessing expertise in subjects they find difficult to teach on their own."

The program is run through the public school district. The parent is the primary teacher and teaches the core curriculum (language arts, math, history, etc.) at home. The students go to school one or two days a week and take enrichment classes (art, Spanish, music, PE, etc.) with teachers. The parent meets with a teacher -- a "learning consultant" -- once a month to review what they have been working on. The consultant can also provide ideas and suggestions.

So far we **love** it. I like the guidance, accountability, and help I'm getting. The program also reimburses me for the curriculum and supplies I purchase, and has a lending library of books and learning tools I can use. Shmoo gets to take the classes I would have a harder time teaching at home, like Spanish and PE, and gets some social time with other kids. I see it as a happy medium between going to school and homeschooling.

Hope that helps!

I may seriously try to do this next year. If we are in a better place for the kids to learn than it would be an ideal situation for me and for them...

Just wanted to pass that along just in case, like me, no one had heard of it either. ;)

Val

I wrote Jennifer Shmoo of the Vegan Lunchbox and asked her what she was doing for homeschool because she said that little Shmoo goes to school one day a week at the public school and she meets with the teacher once a month. And this is what she just wrote me back:



I may seriously try to do this next year. If we are in a better place for the kids to learn than it would be an ideal situation for me and for them...

Just wanted to pass that along just in case, like me, no one had heard of it either. ;)

Val

Sounds wonderful, a nice blending of the two.

That is an interesting concept, the parent partnership thing. Here in VT homeschooled kids can go to any part of the school day. I am pretty sure it was the same in Florida too. So you don't have to have the structure of the school curric but your kids still can take art, music, PE, or even come in just for math or reading if they want. Sounds better to me because I would not want to "school at home," personally - we lean much more toward unschooling.

My kids are in public school - but a tiny, progressive, responsive public school. Not ideal by any means, but they love it and the community is strong. We're taking it year by year. So far Jake is having a very hard time and we'll see how it goes. I really don't want to pull him, but I will if I have to. But we will try many other things first. He did so well in a small special-ed program this summer; it is hard to see him struggle like this.

That parent partnership program sounds wonderful! My SO refuses to let me homeschool and thinks that only "real teachers" are capable of teaching children so I'm thinking of getting my credentials just in case. We'll see what ends up happening when the time rolls around.

I truly hope you find a way out of your current situation for the well-being of your children. ((hugs))

Oh friend....I hate to see you struggling and frustrated.

I don't have a lot to add. It's such a personal decison. I will say, however, that hsing doesn't have to be expensive. In our case, we're on a very tight budget and I spend very little $$ on it. Don't let finances be a deterrant. You're frugal and creative, so you won't have any problems.

At this point, I'm not comfortable with the school district partnership programs, but I won't rule it out in the future. The $$ incentive is not enough to sway me to sign on. I don't trust government schools. I don't think they know what's best. Uh oh. Gotta stop before I get on a roll. :smirk:

I breaks my heart for Cyan (and the others) that they have to push the kids so much. :(

Okay, I am not a teacher. I am not equipped at all to teach my child. I sort of go on the feral curiousity method. But>>>I DO KNOW LOBBYING>

Puh lease, I begs youse, all of youse, what you don't like- call your legislature. Write. Write your legislature. Write the paper. Write the free paper. Call in to radio.

GWB's big comparison, the one he's trying for, is McKinley. And McKinley was such a trainwreck, that he spawned the resistance- the Progressives. And when you talk about what you want for your child- each and every one of you is talking about a humane, civilized, child-centric school- classic, classic progressive. They won once, and there isn't a reason we can't win again.

High stakes testing is a real estate scam. NCLB is set up so that 85% of schools fail. 15 % pass. Can you imagine the home prices in those school areas? Also, if the schools have a reputation as failing, how can you ask the legislature to "throw good money after bad'? Let's see, principals disappear dropouts, for one. And, goodness, dropouts make easy to abuse, to poorly pay, and to mistreat, workers. And, furthermore, they don't usually have the confidence to vote.

So, call. Please. call. If you have a decent rep, they might even help you figure out who else to call.

Texas hs a notoriously badly funded and wretchedly run system (overall) Some bright spots. I went to the legislature last year, asked at the information desk who my rep was, and where his office was. I then asked what his position on funding was, since I didn't know anything about it. His office explained what his position was, and where to find the committee, and who was on the committee. Also, they told me usually they heard from lobbyists, not regular people.

Although, I don't know how bad the system is. I was in good schools, and my kids are in good schools. And even the bad schools have good football programs, so they aren't totally "not responsive to the community." Also, one thing educators get bent about in Texas is that teachers don't need a teaching degree. But that meant my first chem teacher had a masters, and my speech teacher won at nationals. Someone in each department won a national championship, each year. The magnet here has a film masters ( phd?) who recruits college instructors for specialty classes. Although, again, that's a bright spot in a dark puddle.

My kids haven't started high stakes testing yet, but I'm ttrying to break it. If we all work together--it's a brittle, pointless law. It shouldn't stand up.

ari


I'm so impressed w/your knowledge and enthusiasm, Ari. Where do you find your info? I'd love to peruse some of those sources.

Also...you mention classic, classic progressive. What theory/method are the government schools currently using? Is there a name for it?

Amy

First day of school was today. It was also the first day she could ride the bus. I am doing ok. She is so excited she could barely eat. She is not an early riser so this will take some getting used to, but all in all we are doing ok. Her enthusiasm has taken the fight out of me... she so badly wanted to go. *sigh* I miss her already though.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/bluerosemama/Cyan%20pictures/IMG_3253.jpg

Her sweet brother was right there with her... letting her have the limelight and also making sure she was secure. Everyone needs a big brother like this little girls got. It made my heart proud to see him with her today.

Val

Sweet picture. :heart:

Blue Rose Mama - That pic is so cute! That's a keeper. :)

Maybe this doesn't go along with this thread...well, it does, in a way, I guess. DS#1's teacher has contacted me twice in the week since school started (I'm impressed with her) to let me know things are going well.

Today, she told me that she thought his handwriting was OK, really. Now, I'm really starting to wonder how much of his "problematic" handwriting had to do with expectations that were unneccessary in K-2nd grade, YK? It seemed more of a "problem," actually, in K and 1st grade--that is where the biggest deal seemed to be made--teachers "very concerned" about what would happen next year when he had to write more, etc. His kindergarten teacher was extremely concerned and kept giving me fine motor activities to do with him (it was definitely not a fine motor issue, but something else, mostly, I expect, vision).

I'm starting to wonder if we haven't been made to feel that our extremely bright little boy has disabilities (enough to qualify for title funds) that were really just things he needed a little more time on. How much of this feeling that his skills are inadequate has rubbed off onto him? I am actually quite thrilled that DS was able to hear what his teacher was saying to me on the phone--that his writing was good, that he was doing well, etc. He got a big grin on his face!

Jody that is wonderful! I had the oposite experience today. Her teacher was negitive, saying that she didn't know how to raise her hand and was having trouble with all the 'waiting' she had to do.... and it sort of bugged me that she only had negitive things to say. I mean I am sure TONS of kids have those troubles on the first day! Come on lady... it really made me mad... and if I have that type of conversations with her again I am going to pipe up with "So did she do anything RIGHT today?" with the snootiest tone I can muster. Becasue I will be ****ed if I am going to feel like my child wasn't prepared just because she wasn't in a "public" preschool. She was in a WONDERFUL preschool in which she was loved and honored. I wish she was still in it actually. *sigh*

Anyway... Cyan says she had a good day. That is all that matters.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/bluerosemama/Cyan%20pictures/IMG_3280.jpg

Val

Beuatiful going to school picture, and beautiful returning home picture. I wish the pictures in the middle were also good. I hope there is a chance they will get better.

infor sources. I wrote a novel, and it got lost. so this is brief, and probably more useful.

One: fourminute democracy was a website. It still might be up. It's all about calling reps. Reps numbers are in the blue pages. If you don't know your rep, call any rep, and ask for help. Usually, a live person answers the phone, and is really helpful. Their staff wants their employer to stay elected so they can stay employed.

Facts and figures: Jim Hightower, and Molly Ivins. Columns and books. Dubose (?) co- authored a book with Ms Ivins.

Leininger, Rove, and Norquist, are all about starving school funding. Vouchers, things like that.

Good money after bad: kansas city shows up in school funding debates all the time.

Crittenden- price of motherhood, or something like that.

h/t craft a persuasive staffer argument- hanging around staffers, on occasion.

nclb; google it.

Just wanted to pipe in and add two things:

as mentioned, schools are under incredible pressure to perfom and the anti gets upped every year. Teachers hate it too. Blame Dubya, though the system was a clunker already. Really public school can only meet the minimum needs of the masses.

We are eating beans for days to send mine to Waldorf and on his first day he got pushed and punched in the stomach. :( So much for the great curriculum if he is petrified to go to school. Nothing like that ever happened in his ghetto s.Florida public school kinder.

Can't we just keep them in a bubble?

Her teacher was negitive, saying that she didn't know how to raise her hand and was having trouble with all the 'waiting' she had to do.... and it sort of bugged me that she only had negitive things to say.

That sounds like Liam's K teacher (who was also Killian's, BTW). At least Liam's teacher mentioned that it was totally normal this early in the game, but, it is bothersome that a teacher would even comment on something like that on the first day of school, you know? I would think that it would just be what was expected on the first day when the kids are in a new place with new things all around them, etc., and that it wouldn't even warrant comment. But then, so many of the kids have already been trained to function a particular way (grrrr...) so that stands out and is "bothersome." I hope it gets better, Val.

Liam did not want to go to school today at all. He kept telling me he felt like he was going to throw up. Day three of kindergarten, and he's faking sick to stay home.

Hi, sorry last post was so short and vague. DH was talking to me, almost like we were married, or something. (joke)

Okay, I'm not passionate and working too hard, and sacrificing. I don't go to marches, for instance- hot, crowded, pointless, as far as I can tell. I think staffers are cute, and politics, by the people actually making the law, interesting. And, let's see, the capitol is on the bus line, and the offices are air- conditioned. It's a really beautiful building, with a big lawn that the boys can run around on, and there are cool bronze statues all over the place.

I don't harbor any illusions that I can change the law all by myself- it takes lots of little strings to make a rope. I don't think I get my way because I'm right- enough people I know have ulcers from this. And I don't really get what paradise people are working towards. I really, really don't. So the sturm und drang, and the flustered outrage en't there.

I keep an eye on the school thing- so my brain is sort of like a bird's nest ( you would not believe how often that simile comes up).

So, school stuff:

Texas Monthly, the magazine.

Austin Chronicle, on the web. It's the free weekly.

Austin American Statesman. online accessible

Crittenden, motherhood, I think she's associated with moveon, or it's parent's organization

Molly Ivins- writes books, and columns

Jim Hightower- writes books and columns

Vanity Fair profiles of various washingtonians

interviews with the current and former education secretaries. The 15 % pass rate came up here.

conversations with realtors- they were excited about the 15% thing. One was really happy I had found the two mile slice of high priced houses in this one section. He bought several properties after he brokered our house.

Conversations with teachers. I don't know, so I ask. They are usually way more interesting and informed than I could ever be.

Conversations with teachers's spouses.

Women of The Republic, a textbook

Right- wing Women, a pop culture book

Newsweek

New York Times education supplement- comes out twice a year.

The "brittle law" thing- that's just political handicapping. The not funding it bit- that's Michael Ventura- he's on the web.

phyllis schlafly is eagle forum. I think Concerned Women of America has a position, but I haven't checked.

The exploitable dropouts: from a teacher at Youthworks Austin, a local dropout resource center. It has a fast track hs diploma, and apparently a trade school, and an entrepeneurial center. I think it's on the web, too. It has articles in the paper, too.

Republican stuff- from Republicans.

I'm leaving stuff out, obviously, but I think most of it is findable. I think the stuff that was face to face is corroborated on the web, too. I just haven't looked. I usually ask one person what they think, and if they say something really weird, I'll mention it to a few other people, to see what they say. It makes for a decent conversation, since, usually, my day is kids, and most people don't want to hear about that.

I oppose testing because I think it doesn't work as intended. The really crappy schools - we already know where they are, for one. And, for two, the remedial section of the law isn't funded- which is crazy. And three, even if you have a crummy school that finally turns around parents don't want to send their kids there- it's a drill and kill school in a violent neighborhood. And four, a school, a 2,880 kid school failed because three students failed. There were four black males at this school. Three of them failed. This means that this school which has nearly three thousand kids in a rich neighborhood, has a lot ( A LOT) of motivation to keep the neighborhood white. It's already sort of famous as not integrated.

Classic progressive- basically- all the good guys of the early twentieth century: John Dewey, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jane Addams of Hull House, Margaret Sanger, Ida Tarbell. Before that you were looking at homeschooling, classic boarding school- ( ie learn greek and latin, maybe not learn to write well) kill and drill, many spankings, stuff like that. A really sexist, classist education. I don't know anyone who wants to go back to that- it was based on fear and loathing of children.

does any of this help?

ari

Just wanted to pipe in and add two things:

as mentioned, schools are under incredible pressure to perfom and the anti gets upped every year. Teachers hate it too. Blame Dubya, though the system was a clunker already. Really public school can only meet the minimum needs of the masses.

We are eating beans for days to send mine to Waldorf and on his first day he got pushed and punched in the stomach. :( So much for the great curriculum if he is petrified to go to school. Nothing like that ever happened in his ghetto s.Florida public school kinder.

Can't we just keep them in a bubble?

amen to that, mama. I know of 2 families that scrape to send their kids to Waldorf...though it's obviously no guarantee in the nice-kid arena, yk?

My aunt is a librarian in the public school district in Honolulu. She was a teacher, but went back for her library master's program. Anyway, she said that Hawaii public school teachers are one of the lowest paid in the country. That's just sick w/the cost of living there. :sob: Interestingly, her children are no longer attending public school there. They're in private schools.

Thanks Ari. Yes...that helps a lot.

Molly Ivins. I've only read her a few times, but I love what she wrote.

I wish my parents could have HS me. I was a terrible reader and I was made fun of from the other kids at school. I have since become a great reader but only because I forced myself to be so I woudlnt be made fun of anymore.
My 10 yr old DD is in public school. I couldnt Hs her as I was a single working mother and I just couldnt figure out a way to make it work without living in a card board box. She does very well, honor roll every year on her own doing. I now have a 2 yr old and have joined pre-homeschoolers groups for support and I have every intention on HS'ing her.

I've been reading The Fifties, by David Halberstam. Oy. The section on integrating- a genuine and true morality play.

I left out some stuff, too. Namely, the winners of the international science fair, at my first high school? For three years running, they were Vietnamese kids who couldn't really speak English. Now, the test is in English. Is it worth the time and humiliation to drill them on English to have them do a "high pass," or is it better to let them do really, really well on the things they are good at- math and science, and let them pick up enough to be comfortable. Grad school, esp in the sciences, isn't English primary, at all. Even at the undergrad level, I was supposed to translate from French, and Japanese. I am monolingual, so I had to break out a dictionary for one, and ask for a rough translation of the Japanese. I was supposed to learn German, to be comfortable. I know friends who went to Japan, and Singapore, and came back speaking "Singlish." The instructors in math- chinese, two days off the airplane. They could not have passed TAKS, or any other high stakes test. Besides, we know that people pick up the words that they think are meaningful. Do scientists really need to learn "fluffy bunny," or will "Atomic clock" work better?

I have a friend in Austin with a masters, who has never, not once learned algebra, or above. In the "no-pass, no play" universe, she wouldn't have graduated from high school.

English isn't even an official, necessary language. I know everyone gets thier panties in a twist about spanish, but the central part of the country had german language newspapers up to world war 2. Eisenhower? Nimitz? Those aren't Smith, Cooper, Jones. We weren't doubting their literacy.

I know everybody is talking about this horrible, high pressure environment. It wasn't there before. It's arbitrary. We don't have to live with it. We don't have to groan and suffer, and wonder about the powers that be. We elect them. They are human. NCLB is only a few years old. It's breakable. It's ignorable. It's not necessarily enforceable.

I don't expect anyone to come to exactly the same conclusion as I do. Even at the presidential election, I'd sit at a table, and half the people would go dem, and the other republican, off the same information. My son's kindergarten teacher believes in homeschooling. Most of my friends kids are homeschooled. A few are private schooled. Two are committed to public schools. The others, even in public schools, believe in vouchers, transfers, university model public schools. I just think if we are all at the table, workable models will abound to everyone's benefit.

ari

[QUOTE=mammakat]Just wanted to pipe in and add two things:

as mentioned, schools are under incredible pressure to perfom and the anti gets upped every year. Teachers hate it too. Blame Dubya, though the system was a clunker already. Really public school can only meet the minimum needs of the masses.

We are eating beans for days to send mine to Waldorf and on his first day he got pushed and punched in the stomach. :( So much for the great curriculum if he is petrified to go to school. Nothing like that ever happened in his ghetto s.Florida public school kinder.
QUOTE]

We had a similar experience with Waldorf. As far as I know, no one punched S, but I encountered some of the meanest kids I've ever seen and some of the worst behavior -- and the teachers did not correct it. She did not stay there even a year...

Just wanted to pipe in and add two things:

We are eating beans for days to send mine to Waldorf and on his first day he got pushed and punched in the stomach. :( So much for the great curriculum if he is petrified to go to school. Nothing like that ever happened in his ghetto s.Florida public school kinder.

Can't we just keep them in a bubble?
Ay yi yi.
:tear:
I know, not constructive...but oy.

We had a similar experience with Waldorf. As far as I know, no one punched S, but I encountered some of the meanest kids I've ever seen and some of the worst behavior -- and the teachers did not correct it. She did not stay there even a year...

I'm pleased to add that this teacher handled it well and so is my son. I even think that child is leaving the school. (Not because of this exactly, but I think it was a factor). Bullies are so tough to deal with because it doesn't originate at school.
I really like the teacher and think she won't stand for any bs from any angle. I think she is already getting some flack from parents, but it will all smooth out.

Every day since the first has been a huge improvement. Thanks for the proper sympathy Linda.

I'm pleased to add that this teacher handled it well and so is my son. I even think that child is leaving the school. (Not because of this exactly, but I think it was a factor). Bullies are so tough to deal with because it doesn't originate at school.
I really like the teacher and think she won't stand for any bs from any angle. I think she is already getting some flack from parents, but it will all smooth out.

Every day since the first has been a huge improvement. Thanks for the proper sympathy Linda.
You are welcome. We are still dealing with our bullying issues, but seem to be making wonderful headway. Stay tuned.
Fingers crossed for your little guy...

You are welcome. We are still dealing with our bullying issues, but seem to be making wonderful headway. Stay tuned.
Fingers crossed for your little guy...

I've been wondering how this is going. You'll have to fill us in. I was thinking about your strategy when this all came about.