http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=214b96c4-272d-46c7-aba4-158d5355df71&f=00


This is amazing... it took hours for someone to react to this little girl yelling "your not my daddy" to her abducter (staged) and finally when someone reacted, 4 people reacted at the same time.

It brought tears to my eyes to think of this mama sitting in the security van watching her daughter get abducted over and over again and no one do anything. WOW...

I watched this yesterday morning on the Today show. I WAS in tears. It was very upsetting. DD went through a stage of yelling "you are hurting me, you aren't my mom, leave me alone" when in fact I was not hurting her and I most definitely am her mom, and noone ever said anything to me. Not once. I got all sorts of looks but noone ever actually asked. That always surprised me, I was always prepared to have to explain to people.

how terribly sad! what a world we live in.

Crissy,

I just wanted to say how much I love that picture in your post! I've got two little guys, myself, and have always LOVED them in overalls/shortalls! :D

D*mn, that was scary. I need to work on teaching my kids more proactive ways of protecting themselves. I teach them a bunch, but that was one of them, and obviously doesn't work. Time to teach them how to crush some nuts or something.

One thing I was thinking, though..not to lessen the disaster that was, but I didn't hear genuine panic in her voice, and I think that might have made a difference in responses. People might have noticed that, and thought she was just putting it on because she was mad. Like I said, not to lessen the fact that so few people responded, but maybe that would explain a bit.

I'm going to post this in Marketplace, kay??

Absolutly... please post a link to your thread.

Val

so sad. i cried. although i do think that since she didnt sound as scared and panicked as she would have if it was really happening to her, i would have expected a lot more people do something!!!

Well, ****, when my kid was mad at me and repeatedly screamed that I wasn't his mommy in the Target parking lot, you can bet someone reacted. I was afraid I'd have to prove myself to the cops.

Mind you, in hindsight, I'm grateful for people like her, but it sucked that night. :p

Or, in other words, I have no fears of Patrick letting an abducter get away with it. I do need to work on Rowan now that she's bigger. Scary world, especially with the freaks trying to pick up homeschooled kids from their front yards in broad daylight.

Wow. Just wow. I can't believe how many people walked by that little girl and did absolutely nothing. I've always taught my kids to yell, "I don't know you!! You're not my mom" if someone were to try and abduct them. I can't believe that people didn't respond to that.

Way to go for those 3 guys. There are still some caring people in our world.

Link to my crosspost: http://www.amitymama.com/vb/amity-mama-market/290309-being-proactive-when-kids-trouble-video.html

Going to bump now.

What amazed me the most is that as soon as those guys reacted, two others (the guy in the car and the little old lady who dialed 911) reacted as well. It was like as a group; if people were ignoring it then every one ignored it... but as a group; if someone was going to react then everyone was going to react. You know? Strange world... but I gotta say, the one thing this made me think is that if I hear a kid yelling like that I will absolutly react now. I will be that first person that starts the avalanche of help, damit. And I will say I am sorry up one side and down the other if I am wrong, but better that person knows that someone would have helped their child if they really were in trouble than be like that poor mama sitting in the car watching her little girl get abducted over and over again and have NO ONE do anything to help. Bad actress or not... I would help now. 100%

What amazed me the most is that as soon as those guys reacted, two others (the guy in the car and the little old lady who dialed 911) reacted as well. It was like as a group; if people were ignoring it then every one ignored it... but as a group; if someone was going to react then everyone was going to react. You know? Strange world... but I gotta say, the one thing this made me think is that if I hear a kid yelling like that I will absolutly react now. I will be that first person that starts the avalanche of help, damit. And I will say I am sorry up one side and down the other if I am wrong, but better that person knows that someone would have helped their child if they really were in trouble than be like that poor mama sitting in the car watching her little girl get abducted over and over again and have NO ONE do anything to help.


I was noticing that...my first thought was that the guy in the car was probably slowing, and checking out the situation, and as soon as the other guys looked like they were taking it seriously, he jumped in, too. That's how it seemed to me, anyway.

I have never seen anything like that, but I have always been the one stopping and either watching a confused, upset looking kid, or one that looks too young to be on it's own, til I see an adult with them somewhere in the vicinity, or else I go up to them and ask if they are okay, and help them if necessary. I could never live with myself if I saw that kid later on the news as a missing kid.

I had mixed feelings about the girl's reaction to the man. First, I believe and my children have been taught this, that my children would be making every effot to hurt the man. There would be more panic in their voices. She seemed to calm. Also, is a real attacker going to keep going as she is screaming? Would he not panic and leave? He is bringing too much attention to himself? All of this would be going through my mind. I am not saying I would not do something. I would at least make sure it was a parent/child confontation and not an attacker/victim situation. But, I can easily see many assuming it is a parent/child situation. Doesn't the media overplay what spoiled brats children today are?

So what would you change about what you have been teaching your children for situations like this? What is one thing that would get strangers involved more quickly? I am not sure. I know for me more panic in the voice but how do you teach that? I have taught mine to do what is possible to inflict pain (w/o drawing blood). That would draw my attention more. Most young children will not purposely attempt to physically hurt their parents. Yes, some will, but not most. Even a child having a tantrum yelling you are not my parent usually is not physically violent. What else?

I had mixed feelings about the girl's reaction to the man. First, I believe and my children have been taught this, that my children would be making every effot to hurt the man. There would be more panic in their voices. She seemed to calm. Also, is a real attacker going to keep going as she is screaming? Would he not panic and leave? He is bringing too much attention to himself? All of this would be going through my mind. I am not saying I would not do something. I would at least make sure it was a parent/child confontation and not an attacker/victim situation. But, I can easily see many assuming it is a parent/child situation. Doesn't the media overplay what spoiled brats children today are?

So what would you change about what you have been teaching your children for situations like this? What is one thing that would get strangers involved more quickly? I am not sure. I know for me more panic in the voice but how do you teach that? I have taught mine to do what is possible to inflict pain (w/o drawing blood). That would draw my attention more. Most young children will not purposely attempt to physically hurt their parents. Yes, some will, but not most. Even a child having a tantrum yelling you are not my parent usually is not physically violent. What else?

have you seen the video of the older teenage girl who was kidnapped here in florida awhile back? here name is escaping me at the moment but she was in front of a store of some type and the man just walked up and pulled her along with him. she resisted but she didn't kick or hit or really stop right away.

I think human nature is to wait and see. A kid doesn't really think "oh I am being kidnapped right now" when person walks up and pulls them along with them, their mind is trying to adapt what is happening to something they understand. I know if someone grabbed me in a busy place and just started walking with me my VERY FIRST reaction would not be anger it would be confusion. they might get me a little way while I was trying to think who they are, do I know them, did I do something wrong, then I would try to kick their ass if I still had time. We tell kids to mind and be good for teachers, and people at church, and other kids parents, and their aunts and uncles, it is all just adults. first instinct isn't life threatening fear, it is "am I in trouble fear" I think. So that little girl being dragged along makes sense for how it would happen for most kids.

I have told spinner that in this type of situtation he should yell "call the police, this is not my mom/dad, help" We also ACT things out. and I have taught him how if he stays on his feet I can drag him along. but if he simply drops to the ground and lays there it is WAY harder and more time consuming to pick him up. we have acted that out too. I showed him how I could pull him along with me if he stood or tried to pull against me, and how when he flopped onto the ground and stayed there I couldn't lift him easily and quickly.

After seeing this video I am going to tell him if people are around to make eye contact with a person. talk to them directly. say "hey you lady, please help! call the police for me please, my name is Spinner, please help." Specifically calling to a person might have a better affect than general help yells.

I was crying as I watched that. I know I would not have jumped on him as soon as it started but I can say with no doubt that I would have followed along behind them until I felt certain it wasn't her dad then I would have acted.
Spinner has never done it to me but a friends kid once yelled they weren't their parents in the grocery store, it happens.

I remembered the girl's name who was kidnapped (and murdered) carlie brucia
here is video of when she got taken...
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/video_photos.cfm?id=25830

See if someone even attempts to touch my children or hand them something, with me standing there, they freak. They are shy that way. I can't touch Samantha some times without her letting me know loudly she did not want it. 'NO Mama". I can't imagine them not reacting violently, from the start.

Dropping to the ground is a great idea. Also, picking out a person to identify and yell at is another good idea. Remember too that knee caps are very sensitive and child-height. I good hit with a light kick and inflict some serious pain. The groan is also a very painful area for men and women.

I full on teach my children to hit, kick, and bite anyone who grabs them. And scream... not yell but SCREAM at the top of their lungs over and over and over again. Alex and I have acted this out many times. Cyan and I have never done it, but this thread is a great reminder. I should teach her AND tell her. She knows to hit, bite, and kick anyone who she doesn't want to go with. I told them that if they are wrong, then when I am there and the police are there, we will sort it out and no one will get in trouble.

My fear in biting is my kids draw blood when they bite, BTDT. I do not want them exposed to anything.

The eye contact and dropping to the ground are EXCELLENT ideas. I already teach them to drop like a stone if somebody is pulling them, but eye contact makes it so much more personal, and harder for people to ignore.

Another thing within reach of a child is something I was taught in one of the self defense courses I took (I have taken several when I was a kid and teen..my mom likes to be prepared, lol), that the instep is extremely painful, so slam you foot into the shin, scrape it down the leg, and grind the top of the foot as hard as you can. While moving that will be harder to achieve, but there will be pauses, so be ready.

Also, the point of the elbow is EXTREMELY hard, and perfect for driving right into the groin, at a child's height. If they are bigger, drive it right into the kidneys, and slam the fist down into the groin.

Hmm..I want to start a thread about self protection techniques now...

Oh, yeah, and try to avoid blood...you don't want to end up with AIDS or hepatitis from trying to protect yourself.

Now I am wondering about the availability of self-defense for younger children. I can take classes, DH can take classes but I am not sure there are any (aside from martial arts, not specifically for self-defense) available for those under 18. I am taking a home defense class next month. I will have to ask the instructor.

Now I am wondering about the availability of self-defense for younger children. I can take classes, DH can take classes but I am not sure there are any (aside from martial arts, not specifically for self-defense) available for those under 18. I am taking a home defense class next month. I will have to ask the instructor.


I took aikido at age 8, though I know that isn't quite right for street sense, but I also took a women's self defense course at 14, and another at 15, and my little sister and her friend both took the second one with me. I think as long as the kid is mature enough to be able to handle both the material and following instructions, they would be welcome.

Wow, just wow. My children being abducted is my biggest fear. I think we'll be reviewing some stuff tonight.

The thing about this video is I think the little girl sounded more like a child having a temper tantrum than someone being abducted (I guess my vision of what someone being abducted would sound like). The first time I saw the "abduction" taking place I thought the man seemed like a step-dad and she was throwing a fit. But then, who knows what a child would do in a real situation??

I cried when I saw those men rounding in on the "abductor". RIGHT ON!!! They weren't letting him get away!!!

Thanks for posting this. Sadly, we need these reminders.:shake:

I recently read "Protecting the Gift : Keeping Children and Teenagers Safe (and Parents Sane)" by Gavin De Becker. He talks about how parents are terrified of abdution and how rare it is -- and how real the threat from family and friends is. It is an intersting read, full of true stories of violence against children and teens.

What I liked most about the book was that his "trust your gut (fear)" and "you will be able to protect yourself and your children" focus.

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WRT the video clip, I too did not think the girl sounded scared so maybe that was a factor. Still, even without attacking the guy (say you are assuming he is the father and the child is having a tantrum -- which has happened to me and my daughter sounded truly desparate), someone could have approached and interceded in some way.

I think a good way to intercede would have been. Hi Sir, what's your name? If he was abducting a stranger, how could he answer? He knows your next question will be, Hi little girl, what's your name? Can you tell me what's going on? Do you need me to call 911? His name won't be the same if he is the abducter and a stranger. I realize that dad's don't always have the same name but you can get to that point. I just think this is a good way to start.

It is so true that most cases in which children are harmed, the person knew the family or was a family member. I work for a criminal defense attorney. We see this all the time. RARELY there is a case involving a child being harmed in which the perpetrator was unknown to the victim/the victim picked at random. Usually it is a close relative or someone close in the house, like a step parent/brother/sister, etc. And your gut will tell you a lot. BTDT! Trust your instinct and help your children keep and trust their instincts. Listen to their concerns. Don't put them off as silly childhood fears. They may know something we don't.

That's just plain frightening.

I don't think it's ever a child's responsibility to protect themselves, however. And now we know terrorizing our children with stories, and acting out scenarios of how they 'can' supposedly save themselves is only putting fear in them. Fear to no good end.

I recently read "Protecting the Gift : Keeping Children and Teenagers Safe (and Parents Sane)" by Gavin De Becker. He talks about how parents are terrified of abdution and how rare it is -- and how real the threat from family and friends is. It is an intersting read, full of true stories of violence against children and teens.

What I liked most about the book was that his "trust your gut (fear)" and "you will be able to protect yourself and your children" focus.

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WRT the video clip, I too did not think the girl sounded scared so maybe that was a factor. Still, even without attacking the guy (say you are assuming he is the father and the child is having a tantrum -- which has happened to me and my daughter sounded truly desparate), someone could have approached and interceded in some way.

Yep. Protecing the Gift put the onus on the adult to keep the child safe. It's not realistically within a child's realm to fend off an adult attacker. Hell, adults can't do it if the the attacker is bent on destruction.

Think of how many women are killed by their own men. If a grown woman can't save herself, we can't really expect children to. Most children are raped and abducted by their parents. I think we need to keep that in our heads when we are scaring children to death. It's daddy and uncle and boyfriend who will most likely harm you.

I have to say that I was shocked to see people walk away. When I was 22, I chased two men to their car while they carried a screaming child away from Seaport Village in San Diego. It turned out to be the father and grandfather, but I wasn't taking any chances. I cannot believe all those people walked so casually past that crying child. That is sick. Sick.

Kids are not supposed to save themselves. Adults are supposed to care for them.

One thing I have always taught my kids is that they are not allowed to go anywhere with ANYONE, no matter how much they think they are a friend of the family, or how safe they are, without asking either me or dh first, and getting our okay. And also that their privates are their PRIVATES, for nobody to look at or touch except dh or I, and the doctor IN THE PRESENCE of dh or I.

I have had some friends, who, during a conversation about protecting our children, thought I was totally off my rocker, when I told them I have warned my kids about people within our own little trusted circle of friends (not specific, but just saying, even if they are such and such, you are not allowed to go anywhere with them, no matter what they say, unless I OR DH have said it is okay). I think they are off their rocker to think just because they are in our circle that they are to be considered completely trusted. Sorry, I would rather be safe than sorry, and have my kids be safe.

Here are some links from the book Protecting the Gift for programs to teach children to protect themselves.

https://www.gavindebecker.com/resources.cfm

That's just plain frightening.

I don't think it's ever a child's responsibility to protect themselves, however. And now we know terrorizing our children with stories, and acting out scenarios of how they 'can' supposedly save themselves is only putting fear in them. Fear to no good end.

I respectfully completely disagree. It is ultimately only the child who can protect themselves. Even if I am only 2 ft away. I may not be safe. I may not be able to intervene for some reason. I also have two children. How do I choose which one to help if both are in danger? Ideally, yes, I would protect my children at all times. But, my world is far from ideal. I am not always with them. And, even if we are togther, I may not be in touching distance. I rarely am for that matter. Things happen in a split second. Even prior to seeing this video, I would never rely on a stranger to protect my children.

This information does initially scare my children. But, knowledge is power. We discuss how this can happen, probably won't but that there are bad guys/girls in the world. We discuss that just like Mommy takes steps to protect herself, and Daddy does too, it is important for them to protect themselves and know what to do should someone they don't know or don't like touches them. It is age appropriate and so is what they should do. It is balanced delicately to make sure they are knowledgable and aware and not fearful of their surroundings. They see me and DH take steps to protect ourselves daily. It is not odd to them. Not including them would probably seem more odd.

I do not want my girls relying on someone ever for their protection or anything else (after they are old enough to support themselves). Only you can know your faults and failings. You cannot know someone else's. By relying on that someone else, you are placing yourself at the hand of their faults and failings. That is a huge risk. One I don't take.

I think it was on discovery channel - The Secret Life of the Brain where they had a social experiment that showed that most people will not help someone in a busy situation. Everyone thinks/hopes that someone else will deal with it. For this they had a woman lying on a sidewalk and people just passed by. Same thing with a young girl alone.
I remember the whole don't talk to strangers thing from pre school. Scared me. And did not protect me from the people I knew who hurt me.
Been thinking a lot about how I will handle this when I have two and my attention more easily divided.
As to the self defense for those under 18. I don't remember what they changed the name to but model mugging did have kids as young as 11/12. It's a great, hands on self defense course. The problem with most self defense is that ours brains freeze, we need muscle memory to really respond.

Yeah, muscle memory for the physical techniques, but they don't only teach that kind of stuff. They teach tricks for just keeping safe, and they teach empowerment, that yes, you DO have a chance at doing this, and yes, it IS okay to try gouge and hurt...before those courses, I used to think I would baulk at permanently damaging somebody, even if they were trying to hurt me, but the teachers helped me realize that I need to do whatever I can to protect myself.

And I also don't agree with not telling the kids anything, because they don't stand a chance, and it is just going to scare them. I was raised with an extremely safety conscious mother, who was always reinforcing safety techniques. Just simple things, like when we are walking down the street, and somebody passes that make you nervous, how to have a look to see if they are just keeping on going. Or even, just which part of the sidewalk to walk on to be safer (the outside edge, away from corners, hedges, and other hiding places, fyi, but if there are a lot of parked cars, down the middle, and keep scanning ahead for anything wierd, and on the well-lit side of the street)

You might think that will just raise a paranoid kid, but I don't think I am paranoid, I am empowered, and more likely to NOT get into trouble, than say, most of my friends, who do some incredibly dumb, unsafe things still, which completely boggle my mind! lol

I guess that comes under flexing and training the mind muscles, so you are always ready to respond if the time comes.