Thinking, so we are all as careful as we can be, in whatever circumstances we are in. Do you share your food/ clothes/philosophy/ stuff/ mercy?

Thinking about the line of food doesn't make you clean- sharing cleans it. Something like that.

Me- it depends. I'm not usually sure if the food would be welcome. It's usually something like lentil soup from scratch. It's really good, I think. The kids like it, their friends like it, their parents= it's iffy.

What about you? I know we are all very passionate about this.

ari

Well it totally makes sense, Ari.

For us, we don't have a lot of people over so we tend to only share food a few times a year. ANd often it is with open minded earth friendly folks.

If we take a meal to church that is somewhat different, it usually does not get eaten.
When with family, they tend to dominate so we jsut go with the flow since that is the way they show their love for us is buying/preparing food.

We do however, try to bring snacks such as dried mango slices, dates, papaya spears, pineapple rings, whole grain crakers, etc... when we are traveling (like for Rachies bb team where we are on the road an awful lot).

I am sure it gets noticed. At last nights game on of the coaches came up and asked about some ingredients in her dd drink so people do notice we dont fill up on junk as much as others, I guess.

As far as clothes, I don't usually share too much on my personal preferences. Actually sometimes I am still trying to figure that out.
Philosophy comes out when those of us are talking aobut deep issues, but I dont usually bring up my ideas unless it feels safe. I struggle with disagreements and debates and really tend to be so centristic on most issues that I am horrible at debating anyway.

Mercy...do you mean how do you take action against injustice ? I only share in a safe environment or if somebody gets under my skin on an issue that I whole heartedly feel is wrong.

I have trouble with this in that I am sometimes TOO willing to share my beliefs and the reasons behind them, and then turn around and do the exact opposite thing, as in say nothing as my aunt feeds my kids koolaid and marshmallows. It makes me feel like I have a dual personality.

Baby crying...

I'm not sure what I 'm asking ,exactly, either. You know how you go to a playgroup, or a study, or to work, and there's a discussion started, and it goes all over the place? Well, for me, right now, Amity's is that place. And I like you all a great deal, and I respect you, and I'm curious. How's that?

And, let's see, I find myself learning so much here from all of you, and wanting to emulate so much, not just of what you do, but how you approach things, and how you think about things. Does that make sense?

In real life, right now, for whatever reason, I'm opening my mouth more, and talking more. And really, it's getting a bit strange, not being so opaque. I don't have the luxury of saying, "I'm so misunderstood"- b/c I'm not, I'm probably more transparent than I've ever been in my life.

Some of it comes from here, come to think of it- I'm not a complete space alien, or - something odd and awkward. I'm part of this discussion here. I don't know how I come off here, but I am here. You have no idea what a relief this place is, to be ideas and words- to knit and sew, and question, and live mindfully, and and and and

Also, let's see, I read an article in ?Utne? where this woman was really proud of being in a CSA, therefore she didn't feel the need to donate to a local food bank- she thought her higher food bill helped the farmers, and the environment, and the food bank was someone else's problem. Her accountant was the one asking about why there weren't any charitable donations.

And, let's see, I'm not sure we donate to anyone who actually needs it, in any systematic way. It sounds stupid, but this is the first year I've given anything to beggars by the side of the road. I did it b/c a friend of mine gave five dollars to a homeless pregnant beggar, and she even said, " oh, she looks like she needs some medicine." And that moment of compassion on her part--I don't know, it's as if they became "visible human beings," and giving became possible. Does that make sense?

And, a neighbor was sick, so I made lentil soup from scratch, just for her, and she's still talking about the strange food I make. Okay, it was the most basic lentil soup imaginable- basic onion, carrot and celery, with bay leaf, and italian seasoning, not indian, not sinhalese, not with sourkraut- just normal. they serve it at carraba's, for crying out loud. I'm more cautious now. I'd like to think I'm a good cook, and that I care for my family, and am kind to my neighbors.

And, a tech at work was talking about taking out a loan until payday to get groceries, and I set aside a jar of beans and a jar of rice, and a bottle of curry powder, but I didn't bring it to her. I didn't know if she could even cook it, or if she would want to.

Or clothes- Time is making fun of a third world president who keeps wearing this one sweater- and I haven't written saying " Quit picking on his sweater! What if that's the only one he has? Is he required to wear a suit?" I think it's great that he's wearing a sweater made in his own country. I'd like to see GWB wearing hecho in estado unidos clothes.

And, yeah, sugary snacks at soccer games, sugary drinks at soccer games- I'm not going to kick the parents, it's a big stretch for all of us, financially, to participate at all. Water in bottles costs more than pre- packaged drinks. Strange, eh?

so, just sort of a , how do you engage in the world?

ari

Well if you are ready for some random madness...I 'll bite;)

I used to think I was messed up somewhere becuase social gatherings absolutely exhaust me. For example, there is an AP group that gathers together ALOT. Their concepts are good, they seems to really dig on each other, but when I discovered they will hang out together all day several times a week and that they rotate houses, I was like, I CANT DO THAT!!!

Well the past few months I have discovered I am an introvert (and some other personality traits) which is why things like that overwhelm me. And that is ok.
I woudl go to an Amity mama gathering or an herb conference without hesistation, but as an ongoing ritual, no way! Too much social for me to be comfortable.
So, that probably explains why I keep my friendship circles fairly small and intimate. So most of the folks I am around are like minded in some way or other.

I do like social, but not daily, nor huge groups consistantly. I actually get headaches or feel sick to my stomach in large people sitautions.

There is some point to this I swear....

I have also discovered I am politically centrist. I really see many sides as being right and could not determime what I am politically until I found out there is a centrist ideal. That helps me define myself, but I really dont like to debate many political issues because I really see so many peoples viewpoints as right.

As far as community service, I do give to the food pantry and if I have some money, I dont mind giving it to the occasional beggar I see on the street.
I give to northwest medical teams and mercy corps.
Doing the actual work myself tho, I dont do much but maybe minor fundraising here.

There is a judgemental part inside me...but I try to tame that wild beast as much as I can becuase about 20 years ago I got into a rather elitist group of church group that really felt they are the "ones" God loves the most, blah blah blah. We drove Cadillacs, wore expensive designer clothing, our sons wore ties when we went to town adn our daughters wore expensive clothing...even to the grocery store.
When I was finally free from that group I was part of for 8 years, I was still so very judgemental. It has taken many years to become free of that.

Then there are food issues....

Soy is good...Soy is bad.

Meat is good...meat is bad.

Can't get organic so should I starve myself? and on and on.

With the first 2, there are so many studies that conflict. It is so hard to determine the very truth!
Me personally...I eat meat. I follow alot of Weston Prices notations from tribal peoples which is traditional foods. This includes meats, fats, eggs, etc...

But I also try to add some soy foods into my diet becuase I feel when God created the earth we were all vegetarians (my spirituality beliefs tie in here) so I am not fully convinced that meat is the way.
However my friend Joy, with her abundance of knowledge probably has information that shows meat eating is the way..she is an evolutionist I am pretty sure.

Homeschool vs Public school

Another issue I cannot always pinpoint. My heart says homeschooling is the best....but my mental model is our forefathers and my beleifs that say the family and those social settings the family chooses to engage in are the best way to teach our children to follow through on our values and keep simple life close to heart.
However, with our technological world advancing so rapidly, do my children NEED the training of school. Am I trapping the resources they need to expand in this world we live in by keeping them home with ME as their teacher?
Yes, I can teach them how to harvest herbs for medicine and cook some kick ass food, but can I teach them how to update systems, invent or do other things that our world finds value in.
But since my heart says teach them simplicity, that is what I mostly do.
But I will be crushed if they struggle as adults becuase they did not get some education that I dont teach very well (science for sure)

So, I dont really 100% defend alot of things, even tho I personally follow my deepest feelings.

There are some things I feel are absolutes and as long as my heart and heaed are united on it, YOU BET! I defend or discuss. My dh thinks I would make an excellent attorney, lol. But those are absolutes. Such as the Iraq war. I wholeheartedly felt the entire sitation was wrong and had no problem talking about it, physically protesting, etc..
But when I saw some mama's here that had military dh's that were really tore up over the things I was saying aobut it, I in turn felt hurt for THEM.
I quit talking about it here for awhile and continued to discuss about my social realms. But becuase some people truly beleived that this was the way to begin taming the axis of evil and terrorism, how could you convince them?

AS far as your neighbor, they msut not have had food like that.
My dh loves food. His mother is Norwegian and cooks very bland food although she is a very good cook.
I use alot of garlic, onion, basil, well most any spice I can. When my inlaws come over they are rarely impressed even tho my dh is practically worshipping the ground I walk on over the meal. I think it is becuase they are only use to certain things and have to be open for anything different.

Blah blah blah...I am rambling and probably shared way to much of myself. I hope I dont regret this later.
I say Ari, do what you truly feel is best.

I dont know if you saw the post I had about the homeless guy dh and I saw a few years back. He stated he was hungry. Dh and I bought him some eggrolls from the Chinese restaurant and some banana's and whatever else we thought he could easily take in his backpack.
When we gave it to the guy he was totally offended and said "I need meat. I need to go to Subway". This guy was prolly in his 20's, dreads, etc....
It did not stop me from helping people after that, but it sure freaked me out that I upset him by giving him banana's and eggrolls.

I dont know if you saw the post I had about the homeless guy dh and I saw a few years back. He stated he was hungry. Dh and I bought him some eggrolls from the Chinese restaurant and some banana's and whatever else we thought he could easily take in his backpack.
When we gave it to the guy he was totally offended and said "I need meat. I need to go to Subway". This guy was prolly in his 20's, dreads, etc....
It did not stop me from helping people after that, but it sure freaked me out that I upset him by giving him banana's and eggrolls.

hmmm... sounds to me like he wasn't really all that hungry! We have had homesless people take our food out of the garbage and eat our leftovers! THAT is hunger. I dont give to people asking on the street anymore. I just dont. I got dh into doing it years ago, and it is hard for him to stop, but now I would rather donate to food pantries & such. I cant give to every cause, so when I pass up a guy on the corner I feel fine about it because I know that if he is really hungry he can go to the food pantry & get something. I have done my part. I'm sure some people see that as heartless, but I'm okay with my decision. :)

Yeah, exactly, this is exactly what I'm asking. It seems like there are a lot of checklist posts ( yes, no, go to XYZ) here, recently, and I really like the conversations.

Ties? Did you feel more spiritually secure? I'm curious. My mom is part of the prosperity church movement. She's been down and out for a few years, and I think it messes with her, not being glossy, wealthy, and having the feedback that says she's on the right track. She calls up and preaches every so often. I think it makes her feel better. I know it bothers her that our house is not a showcase. It's a really cute house, just with toys, and old furniture, and no decorations. I think she was happier, and felt more secure, when she had visible reminders of blessing. It's hard to tell. I know I've stayed home from church b/c I didn't have an appropriate dress.

I want bookcases, and chair rails, and a basket for the newspaper, before I want "decorative elements." Kitsch from china, iow.

I wonder, too, how I'm coming off.

I work with per diem employees- me, too- and like I said, there was one person who needed a payroll loan, for food. She's working on a lean cuisine diet. I offered some suggestions, but not food, and she shot them down, completely, so I don't think the rice and beans would have been appreciated, but I can't believe I was too weenie to try.

I haven't given away anything knit or crochet for years. Years. I had something of a nervous breakdown about that a while ago. I won't. It feels greedy and unbalanced, but I also feel like I need to be providing for my kids, first. I'm not sure if anyone appreciates handmade things. Okay, that's not quite true. I made a prayer shawl for my grandmother. She crochets, and she was surprised I even had the time. I know what color she likes. She was really proud of me taking the time while the boys played in the bathtub, to knit for her.

I made three dishcloths for the neighbor, of the famous soup, and she uses them in bleach water. She even wants more. Okay, there is buying stuff, and assigning whatever use,,,,but when someone gives you something, and tells you about it,,,,,like, 15 years if they're treated right.....it feels wrong and disrespectful to me. I thought. maybe I'm getting a little unhinged, and that maybe I'm making too big of a deal about this....but I don't have much free time or money, so if I arrange to make something, I want it to be loved extravagantly.......

Like, I work around twenty somethings. I wonder if knowing that oatmeal is crazy cheap, or tofu, or pizza, so they can spend on things that are really important-- I wonder if telling them makes a difference. I've made some people sit down and register for 401 ks. and I'm not in personnel. The less- educated ones say " Why bother? I need the money now." The ones with college degrees, or something going on for them, jump on it. It's sort of heartbreaking.

And DH is perfectly happy to point out what an oddball I am. I don't think I am, at all. I think he's odd, and lonely, and clueless, a lot. But then he tells me some friends think I'm strange, too. But I don't know- I don't have many friends IRL right now, and the ones I like best are sort of strange ( his view) in the same ways. I'm kind of wishy- washy.

I know each of you reads as wise, and funny, and worth listening to, I wonder if that's what you are perceived as, in real life, too,.

ari

Part of the reason we wanted to move was so we might feel less weird. Even our pediatrician commented on it, not in a mean or inappropriate way, just a, "yep, you guys ought to be happier in Vermont than in Fort Worth, Texas."

I will not paint my toenails or fingernails because I think it's toxic, especially the remover. In Vermont, no one cares. In Texas, I was chronically underdressed. I like practical shoes, same problem. I LIVE for jeans and overalls, they make me happy. Same problem. I really enjoy staying home WITH my kids, as in I do not send them out while I sit at home. In Texas this was very strange (You mean they do not even go to mother's day out!!!!), so far, less of an issue in Vermont.

Health stuff- Ugh! we like to tamper with our diet and see what happens. Every time we tried something we were bombarded with "you idiot" messages and deliberately undermined all the time. Now, people respect our choices even if they still call us idiots behind our backs ;) We are typical for this group of people, no vax, cd, ec, organics as we can, recycling, composting, and so on. It's all pretty boring here Amity's; in Texas, a second head might have been less disturbing than the cloth diapers.

I could go on and on. I have had moments of pride that I was able to buck the norm in Texas, and lots of times, when I just gave up. It was just too hard (weaning ages is one example). I also HATE offending people and I get soo sad when people see my choices as a judgement on theirs. So, my aunt buys diet drinks for my kids because I am avoiding sugar. Welllll, she listened to me, but not quite. My mil called before the kids went over to ask, "What CAN they eat?" Then fed them Vienna sausages. I said nothing on these occassions, although I did manage to avoid the diet soda. Someone was "trying" to be helpful, but they are so far from where we are that the point gets lost. We just look finicky when we are just trying to watch out for our health.

Then gift giving and food sharing- I have to be very willing to release any gift into the universe. I have filled it with love, but I can control what another person does with that love. Yep- the gifts tend to be unappreciated, or worse, undervalued. (side note/anecdote- My sil reciprocated my handknitted duck family with 8 ducklings by giving my girls dolls she paid $.75 at a garage sale that looked like they came out of a vending machine.) I also accept gifts with the same attitude, so I am not bound to keep things out of line with our values. With food- We always bring dessert that we are confortable with so we have something to feed our kids without causing a stir.:hahaha:

Are you sick of reading, yet? Being different is hard work, but I think being true to ourselves is a gift to ourselves, our children, and the universe.

Homeschool vs Public school

Another issue I cannot always pinpoint. My heart says homeschooling is the best....but my mental model is our forefathers and my beleifs that say the family and those social settings the family chooses to engage in are the best way to teach our children to follow through on our values and keep simple life close to heart.
However, with our technological world advancing so rapidly, do my children NEED the training of school. Am I trapping the resources they need to expand in this world we live in by keeping them home with ME as their teacher?
Yes, I can teach them how to harvest herbs for medicine and cook some kick ass food, but can I teach them how to update systems, invent or do other things that our world finds value in.
But since my heart says teach them simplicity, that is what I mostly do.
But I will be crushed if they struggle as adults becuase they did not get some education that I dont teach very well (science for sure)

Herbalism Is science. Follow your instincts. They can learn the rest later. I can always send you some great online tutorials they can check out.

Great post Kr.

And I got my soap and goodies:hbeat:

:bow: thank you Kath:) I truly appreciate that comment from you.

Ari, sometimes food is so connected to a person's entire life, isnt it. Apparantly this person at work is losing weight. And broke it appears. It maybe best that you didn't give her the food unless they have a family to support. If she is lean cuisining it, she would have rejected your gift more than likely. Just because she probably feels lean cuisine is her way to lose those pounds and varying from it could be the ultimate sin. So maybe it was ok not to give to her. You will at least USE it!

And Ann Marie had a great point-she said giving to food pantry's is how she gives. Most churches will give to folks that need food no matter what their religion is. It should be an act of Christ, which should be no string attached.

If this person is really hurting for food, there are alternatives and more than likely, we know what we have to do to survive, which may mean humbling ourselves and cruising down to the local church to get some processed, refined grub. So please dont feel bad.

Maybe if she is willing to deviate from lean cuisine, you could offer to buy her lunch and eat somewhere healthy adn try to see if you can share ideas for healthy eating, if the conversation is open.
AS for the thing with your mom, I can relate. Actually I got into credit card debt becuase I "needed" the fancy dresses from Dillards and the heels to match and the purse too, along with a couple bottles of latest perfume and the bath adn body products and cosmetics..... When my Xdh got hooked on crack and left the family, I was stuck, no job, no car, 4 kiddo's at the time, the mortgage and utility bills were behind because Xdh smoked the money in his crack pipe.
BUT AT LEAST I HAD NICE CLOTHES...lol
I am so glad that part of my life is over...it was hard as hell.

The tie thing was a command that if we wanted to represent God, we needed to drive teh finest, wear teh finest, be honest, hardworking people, and our children need to be dressed perfectly.
They got the honest adn hard working part right...all teh other things are rubbish.

Honestly I do like to shop on occassion for a nice dress, nice shoes, etc....but I usually save my money, pay cash, and it really does not control me like it used to.
So that is my disclaimer...I do on occasion wear new department store clothes, but not often!!!! I am a second hand type of gal:)


Rach, your story of gifts really makes me think....sometimes gifts are tough. I have tried to give more money to avoid the rejection of possible disappointments. My lil kids are happy with the WAHM made products but things liek that dont work for my teens, brothers or nephews. I learned by watching their faces...lol.
Rach, I also agree on the health stuff. Soemtimes you gotta try things to see what happens for you and your family. That is exactly what got me into herbalism. learning, practicing, and seeing results. But homeopathics have not been AS successful for us whereas it works miraclulously for others that seem to have been treated witht he same symptoms.
(soem homeopathics have done well for us, jsut not a whole lot)


Oh Ari, I saw your other post about moving. I have lived in Wyoming and visited Colorado. Colorado was nice, and I hear that there are crunchy areas that may be fun to visit.
When I lived in Wyoming, it was in Jackson Hole and it was SO BEAUTIFUL. Extremely expensive, but so much to do if you love nature. My oldest son lives there now so maybe I can go visit again before he moves away. Powerful and Breathtaking are the rocky mountains.
If you want to move to another part of Wyoming, I dont know much about the rest of the state except that it can be really dry, but lightly populated as well.
Let us know how the move results, ok:) I am sure that must not be an easy move for you.....

Ari I have thought for a long time that I would love to meet you and what a cool person you must be IRL
It's late so I will post my thoughts tomorrow
anni

You gave a neighbor soup and she's talking trash to the other neighbors about it? Or is she just a bad communicator, trying to say it was different from what she usually eats, but that she liked it? I would be more about the spirit in which she speaks, rather than the actual words. Some people say weird when they mean (and shoud say) different or new. Maybe she enjoys the 'different-ness' of you and likes to show you off. As in, "Lookie, this very interesting person made *me* this very interesting soup".

I have cooked for neighbors. When one of my dear neighbors was dying of cancer, I brought her lemon chicken soup and she was pleased. She said she had never had chicken soup with lemon before, but she was entirely gracious. She might have called it interesting, but she probably meant interesting a good way.


If I give a gift, I give it because I want to give, and what happens after that is not of interest to me. I seriously mean that. I give because I enjoy giving. I try to give the 'right' things, but beyond that initial thought process, I let go. Negative energy about gifts is not energy I want to expend.

I will try most anything people serve to me, but i don't change what I make for potlucks etc. I do try to make things like risottos and rice dishes, pasta things etc., that look 'normal' to people. I don't get fancy if it's not warranted. If people don't eat my offering, I have leftovers to bring back home. I am never hurt by the potluck snub. I would be hurt by people sitting in my home, at my table, trashing my offerings. I cook with a lot of love, and I want people to feel welcomed and relaxed--if someone is being mean, that's just wrong, and while pithy to say, they are really not worth my time. Opening my home to people I care about is not the same as contributing rice to a church picnic.

If people ask me about food, I share what I like to cook etc. (And sometimes when they don't. Just depends on the conversation). I share my thoughts on the healing nature of garlic, fi, and I share that often. But I also don't care if a friend is on Weight Watchers meals . I respect that she may really rely on that portion size, control, and particular taste. Maybe to have the food already prepared keeps her from stressing out too much. It's actually not the worst food a person could eat. If she comes to me saying is too $$ and tastes bad, that's different. As for the healing nature of garlic, it doesn't bother me a bit when others don't agree. lol I don't try to change their mind. It's not about what I think.

(Hey-some of the nicest people I know have gone on Diet Coke and Ranch Pringles binges. lol)

Oftentimes, a light hand is better than a heavy one in letting people know what you're about. Everyone is at a different place in their seeking of information. I don't have a need for anyone to think my word is the word. I've learned a lot from folks, and I hope people can learn good things from me as well. Honestly, that has to come in a person's own time frame.

Hi. I am lurker here and I just have to say I have never heard a group of women put into words the feelings I feel on a normal basis. Amazing. Thank you!

I know each of you reads as wise, and funny, and worth listening to, I wonder if that's what you are perceived as, in real life, too,.


My brother told me yesterday that I am in a cult. We all eat the same thing. We all have the same freaky ideals. I had to remind myself that I am simply rejecting his cult. Pop culture is the queen of all cults.

I pass it on by teaching my high school students that there is a different way to live and to think. No big lectures. Just small things on a regular basis. I give group assignments like "explain to a starving mom of 5 in Africa the purpose of a mall." or "explain to the burrowing owl what has happened to his ancestral home." At this point in their lives they are usually pretty open to thinking outside the paradigm.

Pop culture is the queen of all cults, huh? I like that Kath.

"It should be an act of Christ, which should be no string attached."

I am Christian, first off, and wow, what a great theory I find this to be!

Ari,
I live in the most isolating area for someone with alternative ideals to mainstream. This area has one health food store, and I know only 2 women in this whole county using cloth diapers.

I am vegetarian, am raising my children to be vegetarian (during my 50% custody time with them they eat no meat), we do not drink soda,nor eat junkfood, I had 2 successful homebirths, breastfed both kids til they were a year old, cloth diapered, co slept, wore them in a sling, etc, etc....
all the stuff that is NORMAL for us AMAZING AMITY GALS!!

I don't mind explaining my parenting/diet/philisophical values to someone who is honestly interested, but I have yet to meeet A SINGLE PERSON who is genuinely interested. I am faced with a lot of people who want to argue that their way is better and what a total weirdo I am, blah blah blah. No respect that I am an adult making choices that I feel are the safest/smartest way for me and my family to be.

I am always faced with criticism from my family about my vegetarianism. I have been veg for 8 years now. 8 YEARS! And every family gathering I hear the same ^%$#@!@ crud as the last gathering. The same vegetarian jokes. It puts me on absolute defense around my family and I hate being that way. SO a few years ago, I finally wised up and started bringing my own dish to share. I still hear the jokes but at least I won't have to hear them on a full stomach.

My political views tend to waiver quite a bit from many in this area. I am nowhere near a conservative republican as many near me seem to be. I respect other's choices as far as politics go and if they want to argue with me, I enjoy a good debate ( arguements can be fun, especially if I have the time and energy to argue points that are absolute truths to someone who thinks their way is the only way), but I will not go out of my way to voice my political views.

I am so very lonely here, in an area that completely lacks vegetarians. My eating choices seem to define most of who I am, I think. I mean, I have many other interests than food, but it seems I get lots of unwanted feedback surrounding the fact that I don't buy meat or don't order the usual burger and fries if I am out to a meal with other adults. I used to get a lot of flack for not allowing my then toddlers to indulge in chocolate and soda.

I would love so very much to meet other moms who share a percentage of my values!!

I have been on Amity's since 1998 and all you women here have helped remind me that I am not the only parent in the US to co sleep or baby wear or home birth or anythign else we can unite on!

THANK YOU LADIES, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU!!!!

I think we should all sport some kind of t shirt or bumper sticker saying "I'm an Amitymama and I ROCK!!"

Becky, I think there are actually alot of us that don't quite fit in the social circles that surround us. At least we have this place:)

I truly agree-I think many times Amitys has actually brought sanity to my life.

Oh, I am ever-so amazed by this board. Ari, I have always enjoyed reading your posts and I'm betting if we met in real life, I'd think you were cool there too!


Spreading it around...hmmm... I don't know how good I am at that. I am pretty honest with people if asked directly about something, and I pretty easily share my opinions with family about stuff, but it's not always heard, I don't think. Take my post about my SIL, for example. She did me the favor of buying "non-dairy" candy for my kids (ring pops and candy necklaces). Then she asked me if it was OK after she had already given them to them. And, I didn't tell her it wasn't OK. So often, as Rach mentioned, people are trying to be helpful, but don't really get it.

I used to bake all kinds of unhealthy deserts, and occasionally still do. It seems anymore if I bring something healthier to a get-together, I have somebody telling me about how something that I made before was sooo good.:rolleyes: And, now, I really feel I just don't have time to make something that neccessarily appeals to the rest of the crowd, I've got to have things available for my kids and me to eat, YK? I'm ready to just forgo anything that involves sharing food because I don't want my kids to eat anyone else's junk!

I have one close friend who is possibly crunchier than I, or maybe she's just crunchier in different ways, because it seems we're always learning something new from one another. I have a neighbor who is very mainstream. Her kids are autism spectrum, as is one of mine (though DS is higher functioning than hers), we relate well to one another, and so, in the regard that she has kids that pretty much require attachment parenting, I sometimes forget that she doesn't make many "crunchy" choices. I have been sharing diet changes with her, as GFCF has been recommended to her, but they are so far from even a whole food diet that it is something they are far from, but she is following our "experiment" with interest. I also was bold enough to tell her I'd burn a copy of Babywise she was intending to donate. We joked about the fact that I knew her kids wouldn't let her "babywise" them. After I told her my reasoning and a little about Mr. Ezzo, she actually threw it in the trash! (I don't know if she pulled it back out after I left, but I thought that was pretty cool).

I have been reading these boards since 1998, and with a MIL who is a LLL leader, I tend to forget that the rest of the world doesn't think like me, so I probably share more of my mind than is appropriate. I don't know what people say about me behind my back. That includes my siblings and my parents...even my DH to some extent (not that I think he talks about me behind my back, but he sometimes makes snide remarks about our diets to his siblings in front of me). I think my in-laws are actually irritated by my dietary information lately, though my MIL seems sincerely interested in what I am doing and how being gluten free will work. Maybe it is just a reflection of some of my own irritation with their mainstream SAD style of eating...

Anyway, sorry to babble.

I love this place.

I believe that we can make a huge impact by sticking to our beliefs and living our lives as an example. Sometimes that is little things, and sometimes it is more. But you have to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

I am so alternative, I am pushing boundaries. It is because I am alternative in so many ways. These are things I do in my life that I willingly talk about when asked.

Vegan (not always, but mostly vegan for 17 years). At times I have been quite active in animal rights, belonging to PETA, wearing animal rights clothing, distributing flyers, writing letters, participating on boycotts, etc. Now my influence is more subtle, such as bringing vegetarian food to family gatherings, etc.

Feminist. I am really identifying with this now. I was a young feminist and minored in feminist studies. I helped start the woman's resource center on our campus. I participated in consciousness-raising groups. Women's rights are important to me. As a mother now, I am particularly concerned about the price of motherhood and the fact that our government doesn't give us credit toward Social Security for the years we spend raising our children and taking care of others.

Environmentalist. We bit the bullet and bought a hybrid 3.5 years ago as a way to reduce our consumption of fossil fuels and to put out fewer emissions. We have 2 vehicles, but function as a 1 car family, leaving the other car garaged most of the time. DH walks or bikes to work. The boys and I walk a lot of places. We reduce-reuse-recycle. We avoid plastic like the plague. We try to be aware of where our food comes from, to reduce fossil fuels used in shipping. We buy organic at every opportunity.

Homeschooling/Attachment Parenting. These go hand in hand for me. I don't homeschool mainly so my children can get a "better" education. I homeschool so we can stay attached and so that they can learn and grow in a nurturing environment. When the leader of our homeschool group moved I took over managing the group so it could continue to offer support to our local secular homeschoolers.

Human rights. We search for fair trade products when available. We recently gave up all non-fair trade chocolate and sugar. We try not to buy things made in China. We refuse to shop at Wal*Mart.

Peace, hunger, poverty, social justice. I have always been a supporter of peace, but now I am seeking to become more active in the movement. As for hunger, we eat low on the food chain and do our best not to waste food. We recently sponsored a child in Bangladesh so my children can learn more about world hunger and poverty.

Now that my boys are older we are looking into volunteering at food banks, soup kitchens, and/or perhaps driving for Meels on Wheels.

I do cook for people, and at least no one has criticized my food to my face. I usually cook in times of crisis, such as the death of a family member, a miscarriage, illness, etc. I also love to cookfor new mamas; I remember how wonderful it was to have a few meals brought over after my boys were born.

So many thing overlap. Being vegan is better for our health, better for the Earth, better for the animals, and may someday be the way to end world hunger. Using cloth diapers was better for the Earth, better for my child, and better for my budget.

I live my life. When I bring a vegan dish to the park I am sharing my beliefs on veganism. When I take cloth bags to the grocery store I am sharing my beliefs about the environment. When I refuse to step foot in Wal*Mart I am telling the world that I won't support predatory business practices and the poor treatment of workers, especially minorities and women. When I bought my car I let Toyota know that people will pay for cleaner air and less dependence on oil. Driving my car I am an advocate for alternative vehicles; I spent 5 minutes chatting about my car with a woman in the TJs parking lot the other day.

I always push myself to do more.

Kimbermama....
YOU ROCK!!!!

I am following this thread and I love everything each of you have to say!

I live my life. I always push myself to do more.


You all are great! :hbeat:

We don't shop at WalMart, we are often asked why. Cloth bags for groceries (that are painted and dyed by dd and I to add to the funkiness), fair trade or made in the US, local produce as much as possible, non-vax & non-circ (personal but still receive MANY Q's regarding it), lots of organics, little/no junk food. We've planned to homeschool dd & ds at least most of their childhood but we're not set on doing so for their entire education. Maybe they will need supplemented at some point but I'm their mom, I know them better than anyone else, probably even DH since I've been around them more.

The big causes for me are eco-awareness/eco-friendly and domestic abuse. Big. Shed tears, big. Homelessness and sexism/feminism/equal opportunity are also touchy for me.

I could have posted this:

I used to think I was messed up somewhere because social gatherings absolutely exhaust me. For example, there is an AP group that gathers together ALOT. Their concepts are good, they seems to really dig on each other, but when I discovered they will hang out together all day several times a week and that they rotate houses, I was like, I CANT DO THAT!!!

...I am an introvert... So, that probably explains why I keep my friendship circles fairly small and intimate. So most of the folks I am around are like minded in some way or other.

I do like social, but not daily, nor huge groups consistantly. I actually get headaches or feel sick to my stomach in large people sitautions.
...
I have also discovered I am politically centrist. I really see many sides as being right and could not determime what I am politically until I found out there is a centrist ideal. That helps me define myself, but I really dont like to debate many political issues because I really see so many peoples viewpoints as right.

KR, when I first began lurking in Flaming Moes (then Current Events) I noticed that the questions you posed were *exactly* what I was thinking, as if you just couldn't decide because both sides make too much sense to discount one altogether.


DH finally convinced me to start writing recently and I'm glad he did. I'm learning so much about things I care about and who I am. It's freeing. Ari, thank you for this post.

I scare people. Not online but IRL. A long-time friend said she wouldn't come to dd's birthday because our house isn't kid-friendly. What? Well, according to her it's not because there aren't traditional (read: plastic) toys in my house. If it's not kid-friendly why does her autistic son who won't leave her side for anyone else LOVES LOVES LOVES my house and runs all over with no regard to where his mom is. I was pretty hurt by her comment. She's weirded out by cd'ing & composting but mostly cloth TP (we have paper TP for guests).

Things like that cause me to remain silent when I have opportunity to talk. I talk when asked questions, share what I believe. I'm currently in a class and somehow I've begun to talk more without meaning to. One night someone started talking about crime stats/drug cartels (something I know a bit about) and since then every break a small group gathers around me and starts talking politics, economy, conservation, parenting... asking MY opinions! and these are the most mainstream people you can find. A couple people will scoff at things I have to say or opinions I express but for the most part I'm finding my opinions are respected. It's driven me to share more.

Not many people eat here. The neighborhood kids think it's weird that we don't have juice boxes, fruit rollups, koolaid, etc. DD's birthday party is Friday and I'm wondering if the kids will touch anything we'll have to eat. (Hummus and potato slices baked in olive oil, anyone?)

My neighbor recently bought her kids light-up shoes. She seemed genuinely embarrassed when the boys showed them to be and said she remembered that I've said I dislike them. She went on to explain why she bought them, etc., and then apologized to *me* for buying the shoes. It occured to me that she thought I was judging her because of the shoes she bought. What I said was what I wish people would think when they see my family: her parenting, her lifestyle, her choices, etc. aren't what *I* would choose for my family but it doesn't make the choices wrong, it just makes her different from me. And there's nothing wrong with different.

Too often we (as people) are quick to judge because another's actions aren't the same as the action we would take. I was reading a thread at AW recently where pretty much everyone was calling themselves open-minded and I wondered how true that was for people in general. How many people are truly open-minded compared to how many think that of themselves?

I agree with Laurie, heavy-handedness is not my thing. If someone comes on like a salesperson they won't receive a positive response from me. Name-calling and labeling are two that I hate. Approach with respect, knowledge and reasearch/reasoning for why you choose to do something and you get far.

Too often we (as people) are quick to judge because another's actions aren't the same as the action we would take. I was reading a thread at AW recently where pretty much everyone was calling themselves open-minded and I wondered how true that was for people in general. How many people are truly open-minded compared to how many think that of themselves?



This is soo very true! I have refrained from posting thus because I have recently realized that I am not nice or open-minded - especially when it comes to parenting.

So let me be the first to say that I am highly intolerant. Most of the mothers that I am exposed to I want to scream at, shake them, neuter them, slap them silly. Many many times a week I have visible examples of how I think there should be birthcontroll in the water. Being a parent should be a privilege. I mean we go to school for so many other less important things. Parenting classes should be required!!!
Here are some examples of what I'm talking about (just so you all don’t think I'm a total freak): coke/soda in the baby bottle, woman who wants to have kids because "she doesn't want to work", feeding kids McDonalds 3 times a day, letting kids watch 9 hours of tv a day, etc.
I tried going to gymboree at one point with my daughter, but could just not stomach it anymore. Half the people there were nannies and the other half that I call "good job" parents. I even stopped going to the park because so many parents just abandon their kids there and go talk, read a book, or talking on their cell phone - complete lack of supervision. And I will not let anyone mess with my kid. Sharing is hard for kids and taking turns, they need parental backup, at least so there isn't any shoving off the play structure (which I have seen).
Amity was my little haven at that point. I didn't have any mom friends, mainly because none of my personal friends have kids. Finally I found a waldorf parenting program and through them more aware mothers and kids.

So there I said it. I am intolerant. I have a hard time believing that a person can't pick up and read a parenting book. This means I do not share my opinion very often, mainly because I’m so upset. I would be scolding and really that’s not productive at all. So I just remove myself from the situation. I try to find something that works better for me.

With my family it’s a little different. I can't just remove myself there. But thankfully they are all very aware and respectful. Plus I just force it on them. They don’t have much choice. I say what we eat and don’t. If we are not provided for, the next visit we just don’t eat there. I say what types of toys are appropriate. If I am ignored, I have no problem giving those items away to children that are less fortunate. I am in a constant spring cleaning anyway. WE have so much stuff, if I could just convince everyone that we don’t need anything anymore and they can just donate money in our name I would be ecstatic.

I think what it really comes down to for me is that I don’t understand why someone wouldn't want what is best for their child. Breastfeeding is the best thing you can do period. That’s it. It’s not even an option for me, unless I couldn't for some reason - and there are people who really can't.
The other side is that I am slowly starting to give more benefit of the doubt. I mean really I have to assume that everyone wants the best for their children. They just don’t know any better.
But I didn't know any better. And I changed our entire lives since we had a child. Literally - 180 degrees. Because I read, a lot! I had no idea what I was doing. Some people come with this instinctive mothering, I don’t know how, because I didn't have it. I still read all the time. Parenting is one of the most difficult things I have ever done.

Now my way isn't the only way and I will never ever tell anyone that their way isn't the right way because I firmly believe in everyone’s right to make their own choices I just wish that people were more committed to their decision to become a parent.
most of my mom friends now have different opinions on various things, but I find it easier for me to respect their choices because they are informed choices.
Everyone is different; I need to learn to love those differences more. It’s tough for me when it comes to kids.

I live in California.

Sorry about the long rant. And please, I dont mean to push buttons.

A side note on Homeschooling. One of the best quotes I ever read about mandatory schooling was that in Massachussets they took a census before mandatory schooling was put into effect and litteracy was at 97% in the state. It has never been that high since. Also remember that mandatory schooling has only been around for 100 or so years. Not very long in the grand scheme of things.
"Dumbing us Down" by John Taylor Gatto is a wonderful book on homeschooling and schooling. I highly recommend it. You might also want to look into Unschooling.

Homeschooling and parenting groups are great places to gently "spread around" your beliefs. This is where topics like cloth diapering, herbs, no-vax, no-circ, homeopathy, etc. come up. Of course, it helps if the group is a little crunchy to begin with - the local MOPS group might not be happy to hear about a no-vax position. However, some of the MOMS groups have an alternative side.

This is also where you can meet people who might need a meal, hand-me-down clothing, etc. Some people have church groups for this, but we don't.

This is soo very true! I have refrained from posting thus because I have recently realized that I am not nice or open-minded - especially when it comes to parenting.

So let me be the first to say that I am highly intolerant. Most of the mothers that I am exposed to I want to scream at, shake them, neuter them, slap them silly. Many many times a week I have visible examples of how I think there should be birthcontroll in the water. Being a parent should be a privilege. I mean we go to school for so many other less important things. Parenting classes should be required!!!
Here are some examples of what I'm talking about (just so you all don’t think I'm a total freak): coke/soda in the baby bottle, woman who wants to have kids because "she doesn't want to work", feeding kids McDonalds 3 times a day, letting kids watch 9 hours of tv a day, etc.
I tried going to gymboree at one point with my daughter, but could just not stomach it anymore. Half the people there were nannies and the other half that I call "good job" parents. I even stopped going to the park because so many parents just abandon their kids there and go talk, read a book, or talking on their cell phone - complete lack of supervision. And I will not let anyone mess with my kid. Sharing is hard for kids and taking turns, they need parental backup, at least so there isn't any shoving off the play structure (which I have seen).

So there I said it. I am intolerant. I have a hard time believing that a person can't pick up and read a parenting book. This means I do not share my opinion very often, mainly because I’m so upset. I would be scolding and really that’s not productive at all. So I just remove myself from the situation. I try to find something that works better for me.

With my family it’s a little different. I can't just remove myself there. But thankfully they are all very aware and respectful. Plus I just force it on them. They don’t have much choice. I say what we eat and don’t. If we are not provided for, the next visit we just don’t eat there. I say what types of toys are appropriate. If I am ignored, I have no problem giving those items away to children that are less fortunate. I am in a constant spring cleaning anyway. WE have so much stuff, if I could just convince everyone that we don’t need anything anymore and they can just donate money in our name I would be ecstatic.

I think what it really comes down to for me is that I don’t understand why someone wouldn't want what is best for their child. Breastfeeding is the best thing you can do period. That’s it. It’s not even an option for me, unless I couldn't for some reason - and there are people who really can't.
The other side is that I am slowly starting to give more benefit of the doubt. I mean really I have to assume that everyone wants the best for their children. They just don’t know any better.
But I didn't know any better. And I changed our entire lives since we had a child. Literally - 180 degrees. Because I read, a lot! I had no idea what I was doing. Some people come with this instinctive mothering, I don’t know how, because I didn't have it. I still read all the time. Parenting is one of the most difficult things I have ever done.

Now my way isn't the only way and I will never ever tell anyone that their way isn't the right way because I firmly believe in everyone’s right to make their own choices I just wish that people were more committed to their decision to become a parent.
most of my mom friends now have different opinions on various things, but I find it easier for me to respect their choices because they are informed choices.
Everyone is different; I need to learn to love those differences more. It’s tough for me when it comes to kids.

I live in California.

holy smokes mama! you described me better than I described myself. I try to be tolerant about most everything, constantly trying ot see things from another point of view, but I too, get sooo irritated with people who don't care of their kids.
One of my ABSOLUTE MAJOR PET PEEVES is kids dressed inappropriately for cold weather. I always always ALWAYS see adults with their infants or toddlers, in the grocery store, and the parent is bundled up warmly and the kid is in a T SHIRT AND BARE FEET!!!
Is it too hard to feel the child's foot and go "gee, you're cold" or dress the child BEFORE you leave the house?? I mean, I can understand emergency situations, but if it is that hectic to get to the store, wrap your kid up in YOUR sweater!!!!
By the way, you can easily spot me in the winter time with my kids cause they are the ones that are so puffed up from layers they look like snowmen walking around....."but mommy, I don't need a jacket too, I have on 2 shirts and a sweater and gloves and a hat and 2 pairs of socks!"
and I too live in Cali, near snow but not quite in it.

Ok, ok, back to the the love and acceptance thing we had going....

I have started to post and just quit in the middle on this a few times. I am crunchy and at the same time, I blend, if that makes sense. My mother has laughed at my weirdness my whole life. I was born trying to figure out how to make something good out of something broken. Throwing things away just doesn't make sense to me. Really what drives me is how are things supposed to be in the sense of how humans have lived for the longest period of time and how can we live with the least impact on the earth? I don't do these things perfectly. It's just not in my nature. I'm too laid back and some things are really serious work. But I have great respect for those who do. And I think that telling people about the things you do can have tremendous impact on the world. You just don't know it. You don't get to see the results because people don't just instantly get most things. Think how often you must have heard some word in your life but never noticed it and suddenly one day you do and say "what does that mean?" and then you hear it five times that week. All the people who say that things are weird are saying it because they heard it from you first. But some of them are going to sit up take note when it's the right time, or when something changes in their lives and they need to hear it. I backed into every AP aspect of my life. Like someone told me about their great home water birth. And when the time came for me to birth, I looked at it further and decided it was right for me. I hope this makes sense. I just want to encourage everyone to share what they love about their life. People are pretty responsive to the positive. If they don't feel judged they can be interested. And even if they just do one thing different in their lives that has a possitive impact on the earth or their children, that's more than they were doing.
And I see the people with coke in the baby bottle but I don't know them. Most of the people I know just do things like give their kids excessive dairy and wonder why they need ear tubes. And they may not hear my message about the dairy but I've started several mainstream people on cloth mama pads. And maybe they will tell someone else. So I like to think that I can be a drop that starts a ripple in a pond. I can't make everyone wake up and change but maybe I can give ideas that people can use when they are ready. And I just would hate for you to not share because you are going to be judged. You are going to be judged anyway. We are humans and we do it constantly.
My family makes jokes. I made an Indian meal as one of my first cooking attempts as a teen. It was lentils with lots of condiment. I still hear about lentils. But my family has gradually changed their eating habits. My mom even made me something I could eat at the last family gathering when she made pork for everyone else. My brother bought my son a present without pvc for his birthday. I don't like being laughed at. Never have. I'm pretty sensitive. But it's really their fear. And eventually they find out that I'm right. :)

:hbeat: :hbeat: :hbeat: :hbeat: :hbeat: :hbeat: :hbeat: :hbeat: :hbeat:

I am going to print this out, when I get home. I love the passion, and the precision, and the thoughtful engagement all of you bring, in each of your special ways. I want to emulate you even more.

I am going to a class in two weeks, and after that, I am going to try to get day shift on weekends, so that I can be around my kids, their friends, and the moms, and playgroups, and so on. I walked away from all that for two years, since it was so bruising an experience.

I went over to one of ds1' s friends house, today, after school, to get the mom's phone number. We ended up visiting while the kids played. She was so nice. It was so workable. She's started a playgroup on Wednesdays. We'll go back.

Two of the moms at ds2's preschool are bringing fabric for slings. I think. They don't know fabric stores, so it's a new world for them.

I live in Austin, so it's not like I'm the only crunchy person. What's funny, is that I don't look crunchy, either, so I've been crunchy lectured, and it was genuinely strange. I'm not at all sure how I come off, in any way. I was in a playgroup, that was like the liberal hookup circuit. I was a founder, but the newer members would look at me like I was a three headed Republican from Mars.

I dress old school preppy- it's cheap, it's sturdy. To me, it's unironed, therefore it's wildly liberal. It's presentable, and it's not advertising to the world every little detail of my life. Like, my Dad is old- school preppy from the sixties, duct taped penny loafers, and all. My mom was in tye die. But my Dad was involved in the collective bookstore and collective recordstore, and demonstrating,,,,while my mom is really right wing- women shouldn't work, Reagan is always right, pave over everything, shop big.

I am feeling a little better. I went to work last night, and a subject hunted me down to tell me I'd helped her, with her kid. I didn't recognize her, so she had to remind me, and she reported what she was up to, and what she was going to do. So I helped someone, and their kid, even though it was just information. I've, obviously, been feeling very ineffective, and lost.

And, let's see, my mom's praying. She might be right wing, but she talks to the divine, for which I am grateful.

ari

Didn't read all of the responces so my post may be colored by that.

I usually just do what I want to do in spite of what others are doing. I bring home things in bags to recycle, I bring rich, from scratch foods that I find appealing and 50% of the time they are ADORED and 50% of the time they are avoided. I have some really cool crunchy friends who are fully supportive of my varried tastes and vegan recipe screw ups and then I have my dh's friends (mostly cops and such) who I try to make things that they have had before, but in a way that fits my values. (Like bringing organic veggies to cut up for a veggie tray and home made dressing. They will eat it... and enjoy it, but I don't feel bad for treading on my values so they will enjoy my food.) As I get older (I am a whole 28 yrs old now... LOL!) I get more fierce about this. I brought home recycling from our vacation and left the clean up crew a note that stated we didn't use the towels on the shelf so no need to waste water washing them. If they noticed, killer! If they didn't... oh well... at least I did what I could.

The more independent I get, the more I like myself. I find that whether or not the Henderson's ate my veggie dogs and home made mac and cheese doesn't matter so much. And to be true I am also more likely to get those O veggies and dip so I don't have to worry about it at all.

Through all of this independence I have found one thing that I didn't expect. I thought that if I was just doing what I wanted with out a care for what others were doing I would seem judgemental. But what I founds was I care less about what others are doing when I am being selfabsorbed and doing what I want regardless, and it shows! I don't feel that I have to explain why I am putting my hard cider bottles back in the paper bag I brought them in instead of the garbage, and that way I also don't judge whether or not they have recycling containers. Does that make sense? It has been just about the coolest paridime in my adult life.

Anyhow... I will read responces now.

Val

Ok, ok, back to the the love and acceptance thing we had going....

I'm working on it! :D Its going to be one of those things I work on forever more. Never give up, never surrender! :p

"The rule of houses" is what I call my parenting style when it comes to kids and get togethers. The idea started when I read a book called "Making the Terrible Two's Terrific". It talked about "dads way" and "moms way" and how they are supposed to be different to show children different things about the world. ie: Dad holds baby facing out more often, mom holds baby facing in more often. Dad's way shows baby the world, and allows him or her not the be afraid of different hights, views, etc. Mom's way allows the baby to feel very secure, and close. Both have benifits. If only one exsists the baby is deprived of some sort of point of view.

Now take this into a communal perspective. Each person you expose your children to are allowing them a different point of view. If you cherish and trust the person your child is with, you know that whatever they show them will not be harmful... it may however be different.

So here is the rule of houses: If you are at someones house... their rules apply unless they conflict with rules of decency set by me and my dh... such as, my children are not allowed to go naked anywhere. That is a saftey issue. Period.

I have enough confidence in my childrens dietary habits that a day of Kraft dinner and potato chips is not going to kill them. I have enough confidence in my parenting that if my child is doing something inappropriate when he comes home from a friends house then I can correct that. I have confidence in my BS skills to tell if a parent is lying about how my child behaved and I have the utmost confidence in my children to tell the truth. They will have that trust until they break it. It has not failed me yet. And Alex is almost 10. The rule of houses has shown my kids the ways of the world with 9 hours of TV, the ways of the world with meals of Junk Food, and the way of the world with friends who have MORE rules than us all as equally as possible. But with the rule of houses, once you are back in my house, it is MY rules.

It is up to me to decide where my children go. But I am willing to try just about anywhere once or twice. They are going to see it anyway. If I keep junk food and tv addicts from them now they may very well BECOME them when they get older due to teen rebelion and just plain ease of our culture to these terrible habits. See now kiddos... see later the fat and unhealthy reality of it, and get over the glorified ease of mainstream living early. Please.

We have too many friends and family that believe differently than we do to try to shelter our chidren from the fact that things like McDonalds exsists. They know. Hell they have been there quite a few times. And I appriciate that... cuz then I get to have conversations like this with my 4 yr old while driving past our local McD's:

Cyan: Mom. Grandpa took me to that place. I liked it.

Me: Yeah honey. That was cuz grandpa wasn't at home when he had you and it was raining. It's fun huh?

Cyan: Yeah! Can we go there??

Me: No honey. The food there isn't good for your body.

Cyan: But mama... it tastes good for your body.

Me: I know honey. But it isn't. It doesn't help you grow.

Cyan: It tastes good though mama. I don't need to grow today.

Isn't that worth a rainy day trip to McD's with my dad to play in the playland?? LOL!

Val