We spend money like crazy. In the last three years DH's income has more than doubled and what do we see for it? Very little. We've bought a house, so I guess we're putting it into the house, and we didn't have furniture or anything for the house so that has been a big money-sucker.

But now we're starting to level off, I think. With bonuses in the last two years we have corrected ALL our past debt mistakes (baaaaad credit, unpaid credit cards and bills from 8-9 years ago, just massive screw ups on our part from when we had no income at all).

We bought a car outright (which was the greatest feeling to not have a payment) - an 05 Sienna. Then this year with his Christmas bonus we paid off his minivan (my old one - it's an 02 but it's a piece).

We still have (and likely will for a long time) six figures of student debt (his parents were poor and unable to help with college, so we had to take on that investment for our future) and the house (our first home, bought it two years ago this July).

We need more bedrooms - we're running out of space, but I think we're going to try to stay here as long as we can. I love the idea of being debt free, but I don't really understand how to get there. I mean, even if I make a double mortgage payment every month (which isn't possible for us right now) we would still be paying for another 15-20 years, right? I guess better than twice that, but sheesh. Seems like it would be better to put that in a money market account or something.

We need to save, and are working toward that. DH's ex has taken us back to court to get more child support :vent: so things are going to get VERY tight around here VERY soon. (It will be almost what our mortgage is!!!!!!)

We got his first paycheck of the year and social security had dropped off, so it was $375 less per month and I freaked. (Almost exactly the car payment we had JUST paid off to have a little extra money each month!) But we made the realization last night that he will actually be paid every two weeks now instead of twice a month, so that's GOOD - because we have a "freebie" payday in the year :)

My car (the 05) has over 50,000 miles on it already (and the warranty expires at 100,000). So I know we'll need to buy another one in two years or so. I'm thinking we should start saving NOW, so it's not something we feel we HAVE to finance, right?

And the thing is - the only reason we've been able to do these things is because of the work he does now, and the fact that he gets a substantial bonus every year (at least a third of his salary). I KNOW that's not how the "Dave Ramsey" fans live, for the most part, so I know there are things I'm missing that I should be doing.

Can you help me be more frugal? I'm trying - I'm reaaaaally trying.

I'm aiming for no NEW debt and slowly paying down what we have. I see Dave Ramsey's point, but he has a story in his book about a guy working constantly and how proud his young wife was (and their baby) I'd be griping at my dh and telling him he was missing out on a time he would never get back. My dh works long hours and he would have to get another job for us to make huge payments and get out of debt quick. I worked when my older kids were little and it was so hard, and I don't have alot of earning power...it's just not do-able for us right now. I pay a small amount extra on our mortgage each month, not alot.
We have two teens and 2 young ds's and the teens cost alot of money! By the time my kids are all in full time school my older ones will be hitting college, so I hope I can work part time to help toward that.

I would just pick a couple of goals and work toward them, like saving for the car you know you're going to need. Some people consider student loan and mort. debt good debt, because it's an investment and likely to pay off in the end. Not Dave, but... :)

And if you aren't saving for retirement, I'd add that. It makes me feel good that we finally started and can watch it grow :)
Probably not alot of help, lol
Anne

a "freebie" payday in the year :)

My car (the 05) has over 50,000 miles on it already (and the warranty expires at 100,000). So I know we'll need to buy another one in two years or so. I'm thinking we should start saving NOW, so it's not something we feel we HAVE to finance, right?

Can you help me be more frugal? I'm trying - I'm reaaaaally trying.


We just bought a Sienna 06...and plan to run it into the ground. Why would you need to outright buy a new one at 100,000 miles? It's a Toyota, maintance is cheap, it ought to run forever, right?

We just traded in a 04 Chrysler Pacifica cause we discovered we weren't upside down, and it was requiring a lot of warrantee work. I bought it new, and we only put 27,000 miles on it, but I've spent more time at the service department than I'd expect to do for a very used and old car. The warrantee was going to be done this next Aug...and all repairs on that car required a "specially trained tech"...of which there is only one 40 miles away...and who is paid $120 an hour. So I was eager to crawl out from under that Pacifica. We were able to basically walk away from it and that alone made the new car financing feel okay. But I'm don't plan to do that again...If we pay off the Sienna (which we plan to do in about 3 years) that will be the equivlent to a nice down payment on a house. So in theory I've set myself back at least a couple years from getting into a house...well except we're in the Army and living in quarters right now and there's nothing around to buy anyhow.

So from a Ramsey point of veiw I ought to have sold the PAC...then bought a cheapy car and did a reverse snowball (buy car, save more money, sell car, buy better car, save more money, sell car, buy better car, ect). But after weighting all the possible solutions, and hassle factor, plus the stellar reliability of the Toyota...we decided to finance the new Sienna and plan to keep it for YEARS and get every penny out of it.

I guess the only thing I would consider is if you really will need a new car. I would think with regular maintance that sienna will last you at least 4 or 5 years...sure you may need to rebuild an engine or something, but would that really cost more than buying a new car?
Just my thoughts..

All valid points. I do hope this keeps going well into the 100s, sure. I hope to see it hit the 200s. But, we are NOT what you'd call handy people. We don't know squat about cars and take it in to get the oil changed, etc.

We've already had to replace the brakes and the tires - but don't get me started on that (apparently they're "really hard" on tires).

I am not saying we'll have to get rid of it at 100K, but by then we'll need to get rid of DH's minivan and hopefully swap again - a new car for me (since I drive the kids around, so that gets the #1 priority in safety and reliability) and he'll take over the older one.

So, realistically, we'll need to replace the older car within the next two years, so I need to start thinking ahead to that. :)

$33,000 for a new car, divided by 24 months is still $1375 a month - yikes! Scary, isn't it? But if I stash away any bonuses or anything between now and then, it may be less than that. You have to start somewhere ;)

Couple of things. Of course you have to replace brakes and tires by 50k miles! That's just normal maintenance. And, I'm confused - do you drive a lot? That's a lot of miles for a car that new, used to take kids to school, go shopping, etc...or is it a commuter?

If you keep up the maintenance that car should easily get you to 200k miles and likely beyond.

The way we paid off our debt is via massive downsizing. We sold our house (1800 sf 3 br/2 ba in suburban Florida) and are renting right now. We paid down all our debts with the proceeds and are putting the rest toward a house that costs over $100k less than our Florida house. With my dh making $30k a year as a teacher and my kids just starting school this year, it would have been a long road any other way.

I think you really need to rethink the way you're looking at cars. In two years an 05 Sienna will be *fine* for you to drive the kids around in. You can get dh a used, reliable vehicle when the minivan dies. You don't need another $33,000 vehicle, do you? We bought a used rental car with 17k miles on it for a third of that and it's safe, reliable (warrantied to 87,500). That would be my first suggestion...really radically rethink what you *think* you need in terms of vehicles. Drive your cars until they literally fall apart! Our other car is an 88 Toyota pickup with 120k on it that we bought for $700. Yes, it needs a new transmission soon, and yes we got a heckuva deal - book value is $2250 so we had to pay tax on that! - but it's a fine, reliable car and represents one extreme of what you can do in terms of vehicles. We don't take the kids places in it except in an emergency since it doesn't have a backseat. It's our "extra" car.

Do you really *need* more bedrooms?

If you want to be more frugal, the hardest and first step is to take a look at what you're spending every month. Track every penny out - write it in a little notebook, you and dh each. This is all in Your Money or Your Life... I don't know anything about Dave Ramsey...

Anyway I have to get going, sorry this is a bit disjointed...those are thoughts off the top of my head. :)

Couple of things. Of course you have to replace brakes and tires by 50k miles! That's just normal maintenance.
Not per the manufacturer's suggestion. The steel belts were showing.

And, I'm confused - do you drive a lot? That's a lot of miles for a car that new, used to take kids to school, go shopping, etc...or is it a commuter?

nope - we just put it up on blocks and let it run in the driveway at 60 miles an hour ;) Here's your sign. Sorry - I couldn't resist. Dh travels extensively with work and we live too far from his office.

The way we paid off our debt is via massive downsizing. We sold our house (1800 sf 3 br/2 ba in suburban Florida) and are renting right now
But aren't you losing money/wasting it by paying rent instead of a mortgage payment?

I think you really need to rethink the way you're looking at cars. In two years an 05 Sienna will be *fine* for you to drive the kids around in. You can get dh a used, reliable vehicle when the minivan dies. You don't need another $33,000 vehicle, do you?

Like I said earlier, we don't know anything about repairing cars and the last thing we want to do is have some POS break down on the side of one of our rural roads where there is no roadside assist or shoulder, for that matter. This is a non-negotiable for us - covered by manufacturer's warranty saves our butts in the long run. We've done 'disposable' cars for many years and it always bit us in the butt. Safety comes first.

We bought a used rental car with 17k miles on it for a third of that and it's safe, reliable (warrantied to 87,500).

Our mechanics say not to buy rental cars - they're driven hard and not maintained well.

That would be my first suggestion...really radically rethink what you *think* you need in terms of vehicles. Drive your cars until they literally fall apart!

But why deal with a car falling apart and running the risk of not getting to work reliably or not having a save vehicle - or being stranded - when you don't have to?

Do you really *need* more bedrooms?
We have a 1200 square foot house, at best, and it has three bedrooms. We have four kids who live with us all the time and another on the way - plus my step-daughter who is here part time. That's six kids plus two adults for a total of 8, in three bedrooms. We already have two beds in each room and they're full - with the toddler in our bed and a crib next to it. Eventually we need another bedroom.

To me, it's all about the footprint. I want to live as light as I can. I'm not one for caring about the Jones' and what they have. I want to have half as much and be twice as happy.:cloud9:

We too have major student loan debt (I'm an OT, dh is and MD/PhD and we both borrowed our way thru school) and we'll be paying on our loans for a long time. They are however included in our plan of debt reduction and should be paid off within 15 years.

My car is a 02 Sienna that I plan to drive into the ground. Dh drives a 96 VW golf with rusted doors, missing panel pieces and a leaky sunroof. That baby has 185k miles on it and we are planning on at least another 50-75k. He commutes into the city everyday and it's a perfect ride for him:hippy: .

We don't own a house and won't for a few more years. For us, renting is better because we can't afford to buy right now. I refuse to buy a house with no money down, pmi, high points and no savings in the bank. We've done the calculations repeatedly and it still makes financial sense for us to rent.

Sometimes frugality and simplicity blend and sometimes they don't. I am much more into simplicity than frugality but because of our simple lifestyle we have everything we need and much of what we want. There are lots of great books on simple living and many on frugal living that are so inspirational, that's been really helpful for me over the years. Also remember that this is a process, there is no end result. I don't believe that you wake up one morning and say "ah..this is the simple frugal life". I think it evolves until you are living the life you want and don't even realize that you ever lived any differently.

It'a a really amazing process.:rainbow: It's important to be clear about your goals. What do you want you life to look like? Start there and the rest will fall into place.;)

Lauren made some good points.

It really is a mindset. I grew up with 3 siblings and 2 parents in less than 1000 square feet, with 1 bathroom. No playroom, no family room, no formal dining. Heck, for awhile we lived in about 600 square feet (4 kids, 1 mom) and had only 1 bedroom and my mom slept on a twin bed in the hall. I have 1700 square feet now and it is so spacious (still no playroom/family room) and I could easily downsize to much less, but in So Cal, 1000 square feet is going to cost twice what we paid for this house.

We have newer cars. One is paid off, one is financed at 1% interest. We bought Toyotas and fully expect to drive the Prius for another 9 years or more (newer technology is untested) and the 4Runner probably for 20 years or more. We keep the miles down. You can't change DH's commute, so you can only work with how often you drive. We chose a house close to downtown, so we can walk to the post office, library, shops, cafes, amphitheatre, credit union, etc. Not something you can change at the drop of a hat, but something to think about if you do move. We also carefully plan trips out of town (to visit family, etc.) and go far less often than we used to. We combine trips (visit both sets of grandparents the same trip, stop by the shoe outlet for the boys while we are out there if they need shoes, etc.).

Our finances changed for the better when we changed our mindset. We used to eat out often, now it is like pulling teeth to get us to eat out. Beans and tortillas aren't exciting, but they are filling and cheap and easy to make in the crockpot so that they are waiting for after a day spent away from home.

My boys aren't exactly well-dressed. They wear hand-me-downs and things purchased on sale, plus clothing received as gifts. I used to get name brands at consignment shops when they were little, but that dropped off as they got older. I also let them dress themselves, so mismatches are common. Heck, I'm not well-dressed. I own 2 pair of jeans that I bought at Kmart. I wear t-shirts until they get holes. My pajamas are more than 10 years old. I don't care. I'm clean, I'm comfortable.

Everyone has a plan. We got out of consumer debt, had children, and started traveling. We easily take 10-12 trips a year, most of them frugal camping trips. We bought a timeshare (if you pay cash on the seconday market you can pay less than half!) so when we take "real" vacations we still eat almost all of our meals at the condo, saving so much money. We are frugal to fund our travel.

As far as the mortgage goes, let's take basic numbers. A 100,000 mortgage at 8% for 30 years has a P&I payment of $735. If you pay double ($1470) you pay off the mortgage in 7.5 years! You save over $130K in interest. Now, I don't personally anyone with that hypothetical mortgage, but you get the basic idea. Because of the interest savings doubling your payment cuts the mortgage by 2/3s or more (the higher the interest rate, the faster you can pay it off by paying double). I checked the numbers on my mortgage and to pay it off in 10 years would take a little less than doubling the payment, but our rate is very low.

Amy D. writes about people asking for help, and then ignoring her suggestions. I'm not saying that you do that. Heck, we haven't cut satellite or cell phones. It helped me realize that if you really want it, you will do what is necessary to make it happen.

Not per the manufacturer's suggestion. The steel belts were showing.

I guess I meant I just wouldn't worry about having to replace tires and brakes. Those are normal maintenance items that have to be replaced when they wear. It doesn't mean anything about the car - except it sounds like on a Sienna perhaps the tires need to be replaced more often than they should have to, normally.

nope - we just put it up on blocks and let it run in the driveway at 60 miles an hour Here's your sign. Sorry - I couldn't resist. Dh travels extensively with work and we live too far from his office.

LOL! Sorry, I thought you were saying that the 05 Sienna you bought - and so I'm thinking you've had it maybe a year or two at most - had 50k on it. I put about 10k a year, if that, on my "noncommuter" vehicle.

But aren't you losing money/wasting it by paying rent instead of a mortgage payment?

Yes, that wasn't my point...sorry I wasn't clear. We are losing money by renting now, but we had no choice, plus it is an investment in our future, and overall the trend is still downsizing. After thinking about it, we decided that we couldn't just buy a house straight from Florida. We had to be up here and make sure that the school would be suitable for my kids, that we liked the community, etc., as well as find the right house. So we consider the 10 months of rent as a necessary investment. Our move wasn't *only* for downsizing but for a better quality of life for our family overall. I'm not advocating that for everyone; just saying I don't have experience with having a big income that I have to figure out how to save and pay off debt with. What we did is different; we leveraged our biggest investment, our house, and used it to reduce our monthly expenses to the point where we can live comfortably on a very small salary.

Like I said earlier, we don't know anything about repairing cars and the last thing we want to do is have some POS break down on the side of one of our rural roads where there is no roadside assist or shoulder, for that matter. This is a non-negotiable for us - covered by manufacturer's warranty saves our butts in the long run. We've done 'disposable' cars for many years and it always bit us in the butt. Safety comes first.

There's a big range of choices between $33,000 and a POS that is about to break down on the side of the road. IMO. A modest used vehicle - say a 2002 Camry for example - could be a great commuter, still covered by an extended warranty, and much less expensive than a brand-new minivan or SUV. Also we tend to buy one car - minivan or station wagon - that can carry us all comfortably on long trips, then the other is a small sedan that my dh uses to commute. That's not exactly how it's working at the moment, but we don't feel we need two cars that our entire family fits into. Having an economical sedan (like say a Camry or Civic) for dh's commuter car saves money on gas as well.

Our mechanics say not to buy rental cars - they're driven hard and not maintained well.

Not true. Ours was perfectly maintained. I have the records to show it. We did a lot of research about buying used rental cars online, and decided it was a good, economical choice for us. We saved $5000 over blue book value. We spent $1400 of that on an extended warranty to cover any possible unseen damage from it being a rental car. But honestly, in Florida, it was run in good weather, on straight, level roads, to Disney and back. LOL.

But why deal with a car falling apart and running the risk of not getting to work reliably or not having a save vehicle - or being stranded - when you don't have to?

Well...I guess for you, it sounds like spending money on a brand-new vehicle is a very high priority. You asked for suggestions on how to be thrifty. I gave them. I'm feeling like something in my tone or reply put you on the defensive, and if so, I apologize. I'm feeling a bit on the defensive myself now! You asked how to save money...I gave my ideas. To me, I just can't fathom the thought of spending $33,000 on a vehicle at all. That's one year of our family income! If I did for some reason decide to do that, I can't imagine not driving it for ten years or 200k miles. If well-maintained, you don't have to worry about it being unsafe or unreliable. It just sounds like you're not willing to examine those assumptions. This is an area where you are non-negotiable and won't change your mind. And that's totally fine - from a thrifty standpoint, so long as you see that it is a *choice* you are making. You don't "have to" drive an older car, but putting out tens of thousands of dollars every few years is a very big part of your expenses...and all I was trying to do is point out a different way of thinking about vehicles. You don't want to think a different way about vehicles. That is okay. I don't think I'm jeopardizing my family's safety by driving them around in a 2003 Mitsubishi. I don't think I'm risking my life by driving a 1988 Toyota pickup truck. But that's my opinion...your comfort level is obviously different and that's okay. I'm not judging your choices, but I was just trying to suggest that one place you can start to save money is quite obviously your vehicle choices. I'm sure there are others if you decide that spending money on vehicles is your priority.

Do you really *need* more bedrooms?

We have a 1200 square foot house, at best, and it has three bedrooms. We have four kids who live with us all the time and another on the way - plus my step-daughter who is here part time. That's six kids plus two adults for a total of 8, in three bedrooms. We already have two beds in each room and they're full - with the toddler in our bed and a crib next to it. Eventually we need another bedroom.

Okay...easy now. :) I wasn't saying you *don't* need more bedrooms - and wasn't asking you to justify it to me. Just something to think about...something I ask myself all the time. "Do I really need this?"

Kaight had some great insights...and in fact this entire thread has been full of terrific ideas. It's really about changing your mindset...I'm seeing a little bit of you digging in your heels and saying "no way, this won't go, I'm sticking with the way we do this right now!" That's fine...just recognize that right now you're not changeable on that point and move on to another area of your life where you are willing to change. You brought up the car situation and it stuck out to me as an obvious area to rethink.

I agree on the vehicle thing. While you may feel "safe" in only new vehicles, there *are* other options out there that won't leave you stranded on the side of the road. I felt some defensiveness in your replies to Lauren, but I think she offered some good advice. I'm not saying you should go outside of your comfort zone, but from what I am reading your comfort zone may be a bit small. A 5 year old car can still be safe and dependable, same goes for a 10 year old car that has been maintained.

Heck, our 1977 Chevy van still drives like a dream and has never left us stranded, never hesitated to start, she's a beaut!!

There are lots of great books on simple living and many on frugal living that are so inspirational, that's been really helpful for me over the years.


please share! i'm always looking for inspirational books about living simply!

Thank you *all* for your responses. I *do* appreciate the time you've taken to reply in depth. :hug:

Just a suggestion....

I bought a certified pre-owned Toyota 5 years ago and have not had to do anything other than routine stuff. Its a great car and comes with a 5 year/100,000 warranty. But it is alot cheaper than a new vehicle.

Also AAA has a thing where you can register your car with them and they will email you the routine service thats needed for your car based on the #of miles on it and what your average mileage per month is. So for people like me, who would not even remember to gas up if the little orange light did not come on, it is very helpful. Going in to a repair shop can be intimidating if you don't know what to expect is normal wear and tear, so this helps sort out what you ought to be doing to your vehicle versus something a mechanic might be trying to sell you that is unecessary.

I hope that helps. I personally am a complete cheapskate when it comes to my car - I cannot imagine spending money every month on a "nice" vehicle, considering the wear and tear I put on it. I like not having to worry about my kids running into it with their bikes or backpacks - but my car also looks kind of junky.

I think if you want to be more frugal you might try examing your life to find excess spending in areas that are not so important to you, rather than starting with the car. That way your road to frugal/simple living can start with some successes and build to the point where someday a newer/nicer car will not be as big of a priority.

Good luck to you and your family.

Thanks, Kathy - a certified used toyota might be a good option. We got REALLY screwed with the last used car we bought. Unbelievably so (had to sue, and won). So we are VERY leery about used cars now. Although, certified used toyotas are more appealing. (even though ours was covered by a warranty, it was in the shop more than we were driving it and now it's beyond the warranty and we can't drive it because three of the seatbelts are broken, the drivers seat is broken, ridiculous safety failures!). So, the Sienna is our primary vehicle and we love it. :)

But, I guess my point is - the car is just something that came to mind that we needed to START setting money aside for, yk? That - hey - I'm not going to just wait until something *could* happen in the future, but instead be proactive and have a goal in mind and start saving (even for half of it) at this point in time.

And because of that lemon that we have (the other car), DH won't buy used - he may consider a used toyota from the dealer, but it was SUCH a nightmare for so long. Plus, if we only have one vehicle we all fit in, and it has to be in the shop for ANY reason (even routine maintenance) then the whole family is without a car. So, we decided a long time ago that we'd always have a car big enough for all of us as backup. The rental cars they give us are never 8 seaters. :(

As for the lemon - now it sits 90% of the time, or he just drives it to work - I don't even want to sell it to a family because I feel guilty putting that thing on them. :( BUT - there are still a thousand ways to have a frugal life without compromising something that is high on our priority list. And that was a great point.

Personally, I see a car as a complete non-issue at this point. I would find another starting point rather than worrying about a car. It sounds like you need a lot of help!! It looks to me like you guys have increased your spending power every time more money has started coming in, which means you need a drastic lifestyle change, and quite frankly, that isn't fun or easy. But it is so worth it when you achieve your finanical goals.

What are your short and long term financial goals (car aside). When do you want to retire? Are you planning on paying for your children's education at all? Do you have 3-6 months of living expenses saved up? Are you making out your retirement contributions? Are you paying the very smallest amount on taxes possible?.... Start there. And then look really hard, and see what it would take to get there and you will start finding ways to cut back.

Actually, I think we've been working our butts off for the last two years and have come a HUGE way.

We have paid off a $20,000 private loan DH took out in college with his parents; a 2nd mortgage for a downpayment through the builder that was $27,000; bought a $28,000 car outright; paid off over $15,000 in past debt - credit card, medical, etc; invested in a good amount of life insurance to care for our growing family should something happen to us; paid off DH's minivan - another $13,000 this past December; paid for an entire house of furnishings in cash (we rented for 7 years); bought a house, etc.

We have gotten our debt down to a MUCH more manageable number in the last two years and have only been able to keep our heads above water because of the fact that his income has increased. Before we were looking at a much more bleak future.

And as I said before, we aren't struggling. This is more me saying "I want to have more control over what goes out and what stays put". The car was ONE example of thinking ahead. While I realize as much as anyone that times goes quickly, we also have time to keep investing in the future. And I don't take lightly how far we've come in the past 24 months (versus living off food from a food pantry)

ChasingChe,
This has been a wonderful topic for me. Some of these great ladies are at different stages of personal finance reform, some I hope to emulate, some I'll never be close to acheiving what they have, but they are all inspirational, and I value them all.

We just did the big no no in buying the new 06 Sienna. Anytime you buy new you loose money the moment you drive it off the lot. But with the Sienna I felt it wasn't as big a loss than other car models. But for each person's situation, is a different solution. We can be inspired, or just informed of all the options. It's okay. There are endless ways to veiw each situation. I value them all, cause my imagination, just isn't that good. I couldn't have come up with some of these ideas on my own.

I'd have to hang my head in Dave Ramsey's hall of shame...But I think I made the most informed choice at the time, and we really thought it out before hand. Redemption. We did not spend 33,000... We came out less than 29,000. We went in fighting for only necessities and came out with a price way lower than that. We insisted on a CE with package B...only pay for the options you actually want. However, since that particular van is only shipped to the East Coast, the dealer offered up an LE with the appropriate package. We than gave them a little bump on the price to accomidate the trade in...for which I feel was fair. They gave us Kelley Blue Book for it. I too couldn't have contientiously (sp?) sold our Pacifica privately cause I felt it was lemonish.

But yes, we plan on making $1,300/ mth payments. It's just part of the snow ball tactic to get debt free. Paying it off as quickly as possible will come closer to rectifying the wrong and allow us to move on with our fiscal goals.

We justified the purchase to ourselves and allowed ourselves to do it cause we've cleared almost everything else. I only have $2,900 on the last student loan. But I would never ask anyone else to approve, nor expect or desire them to emulate our actions. Mostly, I know better than to try and convince anyone that we were right in the way we bought the new van. That's not necessary, because part of us knews we could have done it a better way...if we'd worked hard at it, might have come out with a better deal...say if we'd done the reverse snow ball or found a nice used van and saved up and then bought newer next year.

Now, I'm with you on a few points. Hassle factor, but while you have learned some hard lessons, and have adjusted certain principles to counter mistakes in the past, you "may"(and I should say that hesitantly) be over compensating. However, that's for you to decide. We are all objective (meaning looking in) while you are subjective, experiencing your own walk by which we can't have a full understanding of your experience.

From my research I couldn't find an older Sienna with 8 seat option. I don't think they started making them till 2004, and it didn't seem like they had made too many. Now that the option is more popular they're making a whole bunch more. The point is, in a few years you should be able to find a used one. We first looked for used ones. The ones we found (non closer than 200 miles away mind you) were priced very closely to the new ones. We might have saved 2,000 in the price, but would have paid almost that much to get it shipped or bring one into the state (say if we'd gone the ebay route).

But I agree, if we were looking for a second commuter car, it wouldn't be the old minivan. Now, I'm not suggesting this for you at all, but my dh's ride to work right now is his bicycle. But we can do that cause we live on post and work is down the road. However, when summer rolls around we'll be picking up a motorcycle so he won't have to pedal to work in 115 degree weather. If we lived off post, we'd be getting a little econo car...Honda civic, Toyota camary...something used, cheap, and reliable. The motorcycle is going to paid with cash, and he's getting a cheapy to learn on...which stokes his ego a little too. It was part of the deal when he agreed to get rid of the truck (big ol Dodge Ram).

Nuff said about that by me
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But you mentioned that the X is getting a large sum for the one daughter?!?...that seems like something that may not equate well. What percentage will she be taking...and would it leave the other girls with an equal share the same as the first daughter? :hug: I can't even imagine...but I would think that if they share custody that he wouldn't need to pay as much. Sticky.

I think you are misunderstanding my post. If your reply was to my post specifically, which, it may not have been, I am not sure. I was throwing out random examples, not specific to you.

What I am trying to say is, you need to be uncomfortable. Does that make sense? You need to really focus on what YOU want as a couple (whatever that may be, only you guys know what you want in life), clearly define that, and then do what has to be done to make it happen.

If you want to drive a brand new car every year, or donate $10,000 a year to your favorite charity, or go on safari in three years... I mean, does that make sense? LOL I thought maybe throwing out some more obscure things would reinforce the randomness of it. Whatever you guys want.

It sounds like you are unsatisfied right now otherwise, why would you be asking for help or trying to change. I am certainly not judging where you have been, or where you are at, no need to justify yourself. But when you start having more income is the time to really sit down and think what you are going to do with those dollars.

please share! i'm always looking for inspirational books about living simply!

Sorry it's taken me a bit to get back to this.

My all time favorite simplicity book is The Simple Living Guide by Janet Luhrs

Your Money or Your Life: Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Achieving Financial Independence by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin

Voluntary Simplicity, Revised Edition: Toward a Way of Life That Is Outwardly Simple, Inwardly Rich by Duane Elgin

The Good Life by Helen and Scott Nearing

Without a doubt the Luhrs book is my favorite. Informative, inspirational, and full of personal stories.

Has anyone read the book Wanda Urbanska wrote with her husband. The reviews appear to be lukewarm, just not sure I want to invest time in reading it.:)

Our last minivan was still running at 270k miles, and I was able to get a little something for it towards my Toyota. A Toyota is going to last you *at least* 10 years. That's why I bought a Toyota.

Thrift is 99% about changing your mind set. Even if the Toyota needs repairs at 150k miles, it's still going to cost you farfarfarfar less to repair than over 1k a month.

And the other thing- nothing to show for your time/money? You have a healthy family, living in a nice home, have good food, warmth, and safety. That's what your money has given you. :hug:

Most of us are thrifty in some areas so we can spend in the ones that are important to us. Or to have a lifestyle that's less earning-oriented.

I splurge on some things others might not. My husband, who has a nasty commute, drives a nice car. We have too many computers. We budget more than I need to for food. We save for retirement.

OTOH, we all have at least some of our clothes from the Goodwill, even Mr. Professional. :joker: I bought his last suit on Ebay (where else am I going to find him a Brooks Brothers suit for $35?). We have pretty low-key Xmases and birthdays (with the notable exception of Patrick's bouncy place party). I drive a 6 year old SUV instead of a new-new car. We almost never eat out. We homeschool mostly from a great used book collection. I buy used/ scratch and dent furniture and appliances. We do most of our own home improvements/repairs.

I'm happy to live frugally in most areas to have more wiggle room in the areas that matter to us the most. I think you'll find your groove. :D

My car (the 05) has over 50,000 miles on it already (and the warranty expires at 100,000). So I know we'll need to buy another one in two years or so. I'm thinking we should start saving NOW, so it's not something we feel we HAVE to finance, right?

.

Instead of buying a new car, why not buy an extended warranty. Plus, the cost of repairs are no where near the cost of a new vehicle. Just because you don't have a warranty, doesn't mean you have to buy a new van, kwim?

We just bought an '06 sienna with the understanding that we would drive it into the ground. I hope my kids are able to drive it school when the get their drivers licenses in 10-12 years :) My Dad has a 4runner that is over 10 yrs old, has over 200k miles on it and he has only had to replace a tail light( or something minor like that). This is not to say he hasn't done regular maintanence on it, new tires, new bakes, oil changes etc. But because he has kept up with the maintanence he has never had to have any major work done to it. He has it detailed twice a year. That 4runner looks and runs awesome. BTW , he is a tax assessor, so on the road alot. This is one of the reasons we went with toyota, because the run darn near forever. my sienna came with a maintanence log book that tells you when to take your car in for "checkups" and a list of things the dealership should do at that checkup. You might have one as well or I bet you could get one from the dealer. This should help you and DH know what needs to be done to keep it in good condition, where you aren't mechanically inclined. My Dad sent me an email once about everything he does to keep the 4runner looking and running great. I could forward it to you if you like mama.

I agree that while the car is a good example, it's not the point at which you need to start. You will not need a new van, barring an accident, for at least 100-150k or more miles.

I would think about trying to put a nest egg aside- money to retirement- or college funds--match your company's 401k donation, and max out your total donation yearly. It's all pretax, so that's good. Then, if you can after the 401k deductions, try to put away 6 mos salary as a hedge. This way, if the car does break down, you have the money for repairs.

I also often re-read parts of TG for inspriation--esp the part of what to do with the $50 'windfall'. You know, the funny Roseann and Dan story? That always makes me feel better about not spending money I don't need to spend.

We just bought an '06 sienna with the understanding that we would drive it into the ground. I hope my kids are able to drive it school when the get their drivers licenses in 10-12 years :) My Dad has a 4runner that is over 10 yrs old, has over 200k miles on it and he has only had to replace a tail light( or something minor like that). This is not to say he hasn't done regular maintanence on it, new tires, new bakes, oil changes etc. But because he has kept up with the maintanence he has never had to have any major work done to it. He has it detailed twice a year. That 4runner looks and runs awesome. BTW , he is a tax assessor, so on the road alot. This is one of the reasons we went with toyota, because the run darn near forever. my sienna came with a maintanence log book that tells you when to take your car in for "checkups" and a list of things the dealership should do at that checkup. You might have one as well or I bet you could get one from the dealer. This should help you and DH know what needs to be done to keep it in good condition, where you aren't mechanically inclined. My Dad sent me an email once about everything he does to keep the 4runner looking and running great. I could forward it to you if you like mama.

Speaking of parents and cars. My mother put 350k miles on her Saab before she finally replaced it. She still mourns that thing. lol

Sorry it's taken me a bit to get back to this.

My all time favorite simplicity book is The Simple Living Guide by Janet Luhrs

Your Money or Your Life: Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Achieving Financial Independence by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin

Voluntary Simplicity, Revised Edition: Toward a Way of Life That Is Outwardly Simple, Inwardly Rich by Duane Elgin

The Good Life by Helen and Scott Nearing

Without a doubt the Luhrs book is my favorite. Informative, inspirational, and full of personal stories.

Has anyone read the book Wanda Urbanska wrote with her husband. The reviews appear to be lukewarm, just not sure I want to invest time in reading it.:)

thanks for the books!

When your income goes up, make sure your spending does not go up.

I think a lot of money is wasted on vehicles and larger homes.

Mind you, we are a large family who until a couple years ago lived in a 824 sq foot house!! (that is for 8 people) Before that, we were in a 1000 sq ft mobile home. So my viewpoint on what is necessary as far as square footage is probably a lot different from the mainstream viewpoint. I know it is different from what the bank said we could afford to spend on a home when we purchased this one we are now in. (geeze, they approve you for way too much money and way too much house IMHO) I think a lot of people become "house poor" due to that.

If all your debt is paid, I'd look at these areas:

1. Do you have at least 3 months salary in savings?
2. Do you have enough life insurance? (if you are a at-home mom, they say to have 10x what your husband makes a year...that would include bonuses if you use those bonuses to live off of in any way)
3. Do you have retirement saved?
4. What are your plans as far as paying or helping pay for your children's college?

If you are carrying any debt at all (I think you mentioned student loans?) then I'd pay that debt off. All of it.

Is that what you are looking at or are you more looking at how to spend less on all those monthly expenses and things that we oftentimes think we need. (but don't need)

I guess I'm not sure which direction you want to go with this and it seems like it has been stuck on the vehicles.

We do follow Ramseys plan but modify slightly. It is working for us. One past mistake for us was increasing our level of living each time dh's salary went up. We no longer do that and have not done that for a while.

I think we all have our own personal challenges that are different from each other. For my family, it is our sky high medical expenses and we are or have already done everything we can to lower medical...it just is a fact of life for us. Some things like that are beyond our control....try not to focus on that and look at areas you do have power and control over.

I did start working part-time specifically to pay off debt. However, this winter much of my pay is going to just simply keeping the heat on in our home with the increase in our natural gas bill.

It is a mindset. When I see society at large moving to some new fad or thing that is my personal alarm to stay the heck away from it! *lol*

Michelle

Ack!!

I forgot to add what I feel is very important.

Giving. I feel it is very important, no matter where you are in your debt reduction plan to give monthly.

I do firmly believe that if you give, you will be blessed in not only finances...but all areas of life.

Michelle

Hmm .. Your hubby has children with an Ex wife and pays child support .. i do not know much about Child support i will admit .. but since you have is it 5 going on 6 or on your sig do you list your step child .. (sort dont mean to be nosey .. just confused a little) .. Anywho it would seem that there would be a limit to the percent that they can take out of his paycheck since there are children in the home he needs to care for. KWIM. Although the increase might be because he is making more $ .. i don't know KWIM.

I know a lot of the people here set up allowances for themselves and their hubbies. Perhaps giving yourself a spending allowance will help. Plan out your grocery shopping ( use coupons, shop sales, loss leaders ect. ). I do not know what type of food your normally buy, however if you shop the outside of the store and then the baking isle for the mass majority of your trip you will save money. Look at the reduced meats..I look them over because often when more expensive peices of meats are on sale less expensive cuts are reduced dramatically lower because no one is buying them, Most stores mark their reduced ( meats that just sat out the day before) meats in the morning atleast by 10am. Also buying meat at the end of the month often people do not buy as much.. expecially if you live in a lower income area.. Assisstance checks ( child support, disability, social security, ect ) come in at the begining of the month .. so less people are buying meats at the end of the month. Buying in bulk can also lower grocery bills. Instead of buying convienience foods, make extra while cooking for dinner and store the rest in individual portions or individual meal portions in the fridgerator. Look for some different recipes that are less expensive to make or change out ingredients to make it cheaper or more healthy.

Start a garden.. seeds are less expensive then fresh veggies.. you can rent a til to begin with.. If you are unable to start a garden look into buying fresh veggies locally... there are a lot of farms usually smaller family owned farms which before a season starts sell shares of a variety of crops off for the season. All of the shares cover the seed and labor to produce the crops and sometimes the transportation. I have seen them from $75 to $300 for a season for from 2 people family to large family size depending on the diversity of the crops the farm grows.

Since there are so many children in the house and it seems like they are equally distributed in age and all females. Atleast for the younger few of your children as they grow out of their clothing a younger sibling can wear it. If thats not the case you could look around at different consignment shops, find one that gives you a good price for lightly used unstained clothes. ** MAKE SURE YOU READ THIER RULES CAREFULLY.. There is a shop around here that has a contract you have to sign that states if you want the clothes back you are to check one box and if you would like any that are not sutable to be donated check another .. however in the fine print it says that there is a $5 charge for taking items to the donation... My MIL took many clothes to a local Consignment shop and they ended up telling her that she owned 13 cents after they had sold all of these clothes for her .. So just be careful.. if it doesnt look like a place you would want to buy from most likely it will not give you goon $ for the clothes .. but they will probubly take more wear on their clothes then a nicer place KWIM **Also if you find a nicer consignment shop they will have nice quality items in their stores ( AKA labels or even designer sometimes) . For your older girls it would be probubly a nice challenge to find some cool new style they can make from consignment shops, thrift stores, and goodwill. It has become fashionable to shop at these places or even make your own designs like Fergi from the Black Eye Peas and Gwen Stefani. Not to mention you can Score and find designer items in these stores too.

You say you are having space issues in your home.. i don't know the size of your home or # of bedrooms or anything.. but one thing you can do to make your home seem bigger is to pair down on items .. Does your child have school uniforms.. if so they need those. but they might not need so many toys expecially when they have sisters that probubly have more toys KWIM.. Have you ever watched Clean Sweep or any other Show where they take out everything and analize it and then put back what the people really need. The items that you have decided to get rid of you could sell on Ebay or have a yard sale or some consignment shops take toys and things... or even donate them. If you do not already have one bunk beds really can open up a lot of space in a room. Under bed storage boxes in the childrens rooms for out of season clothes, not only does it work as storage, but the kids can't shove all their things under the bed and call their room clean hehehe. Under bed storage boxes often work under couches as well depending on how far their are off the floor and if they have a skirt on them. My biggest storage problem was in the summer when i had to find something to do with all the comforters and winter blankets, which we had a LOT because my Hubby is HOT BLOODED.. and me and his girls are all cold blooded *lol* .. So there were 2 ( 3 on mine til my MIL made me a flannel Blankey :cloud9: then i had 2)comforters and atleast one blanket on every bed and one comforter on the couch and several blankets in the living room. So that was 9 comforters and 6 blankets.. although the blankets stayed on the beds year round. I never did figure out that storage delema.. other then to put them on the bed ( of course the girls were old enough not to wet the bed ) under the pad and sheets, which made the bed softer which the girls really liked.

Check the house for cold spots and try to fix them .. turn down the temp a few degrees to like 65 and throw on a sweater. Plan trips out and about so that you use as little gas as possible and go everywhere you need to as much as possible.

big stuff. The hard thing to me is that even when your income goes up, so does the priority you put on things like a safe vehicle. I mean sure I would probably drive newer vehicles if we had enough more income to justify it. Right now we have two older Honda Odysseys:

1) we got a brand new 1998 Odyssey as an outright gift from my parents right before Emma was born. We have put about 160,000 miles on it with no problems at all. My dh drives it now.

2)we bought me a 1999 Odyssey used but in immaculate condition for 7,500 this summer and it already had 100,000 miles on it but I am betting we will get another 100,000 or more out of it.

I might buy a brand new Toyota Sienna too if my dh made more than 36,000 per YEAR but he doesn't and we just can't justify that. But I don't fault you if you can afford it. But I would try to find a demo or one with VERY low miles just to save some of that horrid depreciation that happens when you buy brand new vehicles.

We are working on paying off debt right now. We choose to have our engine rebuilt rather than get into car payments. We have been stranded on the road but for us that's why cell phones and BCAA are now non-negotiables. Where someone looking at our budget might go "you can get along without the cell phones". Nope - been stranded with kids a few too many times for a few hours and no cell phone a few too MANY times.

We probably could get a car loan now - dh's bad credit stuff has FINALLY dropped off the record - but it would make things too tight so we choose to keep repairing our old vehicle. Plus dh does have a friend that can advise on a lot of simple repairs. We're definately in the drive it into the ground category having had the engine rebuilt AND the transmission replaced on our Dodge Caravan. Right now we're just trying not to get any new debt including vehicles and pay down old debt. I'm hoping we can get current debt paid off before we get into car payments. After that - we have to look at saving for a downpayment on a house. We rent right now and our rent has gone up twice since we moved here last year but it was SO hard to find somewhere to rent with 5 kids!

For me the area that I really have to look at is indulging my kids and dh's computer/techy stuff - he's in IT and that's where a lot of spending happens that maybe we could do without. But on my end it's the little things - too many treats, buying too many matching outfits (esp for the twins!) - it's hard because my family was SO broke when I was growing up that I don't want my kids to feel SO deprived but at the same time - then we fritter away $ on paying for Dora the explorer sheets instead of plain ones for half the price, flashing barbie shoes when there is a pair still in good shape handed down from an older sib, new clothes for the kids when really they didin't NEED them they were just "so cute". Then too many times stopping at starbucks. I need to figure out how to make decent coffee at home!

Ack!!

I forgot to add what I feel is very important.

Giving. I feel it is very important, no matter where you are in your debt reduction plan to give monthly.

I do firmly believe that if you give, you will be blessed in not only finances...but all areas of life.

Michelle

This is definitely what I need to work on, it is so hard for me. I am such a tightwad and while it has helped our family save a lot of money, I really wish I could learn to "let go" of some of our stuff. We have SO much stuff. Not expensive stuff, but just lots of little stuff. That adds up. It's just things and yet I hang on to everything because it is mine and somehow I have such a hard time giving it away. Sometimes I buy stuff I don't need just because it is a bargain and I "might" need it someday, and then it ends up just cluttering up my house. So I guess my suggestion would be to do the opposite of what I do, lol. Try to see what you really need and get rid of the rest. And the next step for me would be to take my own advice. It really is so much easier to give it out than to take it isn't it:p