I just was wondering if anyone else ever has flashes of rage. I had them MUCH worse after Phaedra was born and up until she was about 18 months old. I still have them, but they seem "normal", like I might have two a month and definitely tied to high stress or low sleep. I have also gotten much better at not lashing out at the kids when it happens. So, now in retrospect, I wonder if I had a little ppd with her. I also wonder if ppd is more common with the second child. And finally, I feel really sorry for Ezra, because he suffered the brunt of it for that 18 months. It was always really dumb stuff. The last episode that was horrible to me was when I was pregnant and flipped out because the kids got muddy, and that's been almost a year ago and I was suffering from the first trimester of pregnancy. Before that, I can't remember, and since then, I have not had that kind of fit. I actually talked to DH after Phaedra was born about needing help, but he just kind of patted my head. Now, he even sees that something was wrong and he really listens when I say I'm not doing anything for a day or so because I'm feeling shot.

So, do you feel rage? What triggers it? How do you handle it?

yeah, mostly ds being defiant triggers it. i am getting better at handling it. at first it was so hard though, ds was freaking out, i was too weak to get up, and i had no help

yep, had one today. watching this thread for some ideas on how to handle it.
listening to whining and being pulled on will trigger it faster than anything. today i just screamed as loud as i could and encouraged the girls to do the same. of course it happened bc i sewed thru my finger bc lyl was pulling on me while i was trying to finish my shrug

Yep, and whining and defiance will trigger it especailly if Im already having a ****ty day (overtired, stressed out etc). Lying also doesnt go over well, but I REALLLLLY try to keep myself in check on the lying because I want to encourage them to tell me the truth because its the right thing to do, not scare them to the point that they NEVER tell me the truth or scare them into telling me the truth. kwim? And something that not so much puts me in a rage but just makes me mad is ungratefulness. Drives me NUTS when I know how much Ive put into some activity or outing and they dont seem to appreciate it. Anyhow, Im getting off subject a little. Handling the Rage thing, if dh is home I simply tell him to go talk to the kids because I cant do it right now. He gets me and knows that its best that I dont talk to them in situations like that. When dh isnt home, I get them to both go to their rooms until I can form a rational way to approach the situation calmly. Depending on the tone of voice I have when I tell them to go to their rooms, they tend to move pretty quickly. Oddly enough the quieter I am when I say it the more serious they know I am. Sort of like a calm before the storm.

So, yes I feel rage, whiney and defiant kids trigger it and I handle it by passing the job to dh or separating myself from the kids long enough to regroup.

Oh If Im in public and feel it coming on, I stop (and this is going to sound nuts, but I do it and it works) I stop I put my hands up(usually just up by my shoulders and I also usually have my eyes closed tight) and VERY calmly say "you have to stop what you are doing, its making me angry/upset(one or the other word comes out) and I would like to be happy" By the time I finish the sentance I can actually feel my heartrate come down. They both seem to appreciate that Im sharing how things are making me feel. And Im able to address the situation while not making a huge scene in the grocery store or bottling it up until we get home or to the car or whatever.

I also am very aware that I was MUCH worse before I had kids. In high school I would have the dumbest triggers like trying to fix my hair. It wouldnt fix right and Id have a little fit over it. Id be packing a backpack and not able to fit everything and just get frustrated and blow up. Stupid things. But they would definitely trigger that deep down anger that comes out all the way to your fingertips and makes you want to literally explode.

I am much more capable of diffusing on my own without having an outburst, but not always...so I do still have my moments.

I have urges which, for the most part, I have been able to surpress. Whinning gets to me most (as in my post earlier about what hell must sound like). I try to remember to take a deep breath (as much as I'd really love to yell) and respond calmly. Today was a tough day. The whinning factor was out of control. Mostly I just try to be really calm as much as I feel like blowing up. I try to tell her that I know she is frustrated and is whinning because of it (empathize with her), but that whinning will not change my mind (and I really try to say this in a "no skin off my back and I still love you" voice). I actually find that it is much more effective than yelling (not really as satisfying, but more effective and better discipline). I'm currently reading "How to raise a resilient child" and it is giving me some good ideas.

Oh, and I count the minutes until my dh gets home.

i echo what many of you are saying. it is so hard somedays not to just sit & scream as loud as i can. whining from ds & dd's cryng (in the car most of all) send me over the top. i got home today after dropping off my mom & just sat in the swing on the porch & cried. dd had cried in the car for most of the drive. luckily ds was w/dh.

so how do you all feel/show your rage---i want to hit something, but i usually bite my lip so my dear babes aren't afraid of me.

Tonya, I do the same thing. I dont want the kids to see that part of me, plus I expect them to keep their emotions in check then I should be able to do the same. but like I stated above, I still have my moments. The thing is, Ive been telling the kids they can pitch a fit, but they have to go in their room to do it...I was getting ticked the other day, just frustrated beyond belief (one of my moments) so I went to my room, in my closet even and just let loose(not breaking or beating anything, just growling and throwing a hanger I had in my hand down on the ground) It was amazing how much better I felt LOL

I mean this part of me is scary just because I KNOW I HAVE to keep it under control at least until Im alone and can growl and clench my fists. But knowing that there are other mamas who deal with this is both comforting and not comforting at the same time. Im glad to know that Im not alone and that we all seem to still be doing right by our kids but just knowing that there are mamas out there who arent able to keep it in check and end up hurting themselves or their kids concerns me kwim?

Tonya, I do the same thing. I dont want the kids to see that part of me, plus I expect them to keep their emotions in check then I should be able to do the same.

I think it's perfectly healthy for our kids to see us express our emotions in healthy ways. What do you mean by keeping emotions in check? I'm just curious if it's an age thing, I just don't think it's realistic to expect it of a 2yo, kwim? I try to come up with ways for both of us to let off steam so he knows that it's OK to feel that way, it's just not ok to express it violently.

I think it's perfectly healthy for our kids to see us express our emotions in healthy ways. What do you mean by keeping emotions in check? I'm just curious if it's an age thing, I just don't think it's realistic to expect it of a 2yo, kwim? I try to come up with ways for both of us to let off steam so he knows that it's OK to feel that way, it's just not ok to express it violently.

i think what she means (& she can correct me if i'm wrong) is the feeling of out of control part--punching floor, pillow, wanting to scream extremely loud & long, slamming doors, slinging coat hangers---for me it's to keep from hurting my child or myself. i dont mind if my ds sees a more mild form of being upset, but not when i feel over my boiling point. i want to teach him it is ok to have feelings & emotions & how to express them as he needs to. everybody lets off steam differently & i want him to see a better way of dealing & that is not when i am exploding. i need to learn better ways to deal w/ myself.

when ds is upset or not wanting to mind, he slams doors & rolls his eyes already & he is almost 3!!

Good point, that makes sense. As you can see it was really late when I posted!

So here's today's example. Sylvie simply would not go to bed lastnight which means I never got that hour or two to myself in the evening. That's fine, babies do that. So, this morning, I tried to sneak out of bed, but she immediately started crying, so I peed and went back to bed to try to nurse her back down, but that didn't work. Fine, babies need lots and lots, and I am very willing and ready to do it, but I did not get even a half hour to wash my face and have my first cup of coffee. Then both the other kids got up and we had breakfast, and dh went to work. Sylvie was obviously tired, so I tried to nurse her down, and she decided to flirt with me instead. Very endearing, very cute, very normal. I was beginning to see having that jekyll/ hyde baby thing coming on, though, as she gets SO tired and flirts and cries alternately until she collapses.

So, as I am trying to nurse her down, the other two are dancing around, half-dressed, demanding that I help them dress, etc. All totally normal, non-harmful behavior. I explained that I was trying to nurse Sylvie down and that they needed to be naked in their room if that's how they wanted to play (house rule). They went easily to their room, but did that thing that's also totally normal where little kids start riffing on one annoying phrase or sound and saying it over and over and over and over.

Then they came back ou and wanted to eat, but neither of them had actually eaten breakfast, so I directed them to the breakfast that was still on the table, and truthfully by now, my blood was boiling. I felt SO frustrated to not be able to meet their needs and Sylvie's simultaneously, and I so desparately did not want to be holding the baby for just 30 minutes.

So, I announced that I was going for a walk. Ezra and Phaedra flipped as they were not dressed and I really couldn't help them. I managed to not exacerbate the situation, which I don't always do. I just got Sylvie in the sling, then I took her out so I could comb Phaedra's hair, but the whole time I am really having to coach myself to keep my hands gentle and to not threaten all sorts of things.

Sylvie ended up in the stroller (thank goodness) and we went for a walk. Phaedra tripped because she is so compulsive about being right beside me, and that made me mad, but again, I was able to remind myself she is JUST three, and I kissed her scraped knees and we kept walking. And, Sylvie nursed down when we got home and I feel better. But this is the exact sort of thing that I blow my top over, and I have to really work to not get crazy at these times. It sounds ridiculous, because NOTHING bad had happened, but I did not sleep well and I just needed away from Sylvie for a few minutes.

Sorry about the long post, I just wanted to share as the whole rage thing really scares me, and I AM getting better, much better, but I am seeking more ways to cope and not explode in front of or at my children, as I think that is way too much energy for their little selves.

Tonya, you got it right :)
And as far as kids keeping their emotions in check, I dont expect the same from my 3yr old as I do from my 5 yr old. But I dont expect my 5 yr old to never have a tantrum. As I stated earlier, I tell them they can feel the way they are and act it out but they have to go do it in their room (mostly so they dont throw something or hit someone else if that ends up being how they are expressing their fit) I get that they need to understand feelings and that they are ok, and I TOTALLY understand inablility to find a way to control them. So I dont hold my kids to standards I cannot reach simply because I have no way of teaching them yet. But things we have talked about and have practiced I expect them to continue to do in order to keep their emotions in check. Crying, being angry without physical violence, frustration, and basically any emotion that doesnt involve physical violence is perfectly ok and we all learn from each other in this house how to deal with the things that are bringing those emotions on.

But if they are going to be physical (kicking and screaming or stomping etc) they can go do that in their room, only because thats the only way I know how to deal with the situation when Im experiencing it myself.

And Rach, it sounds like you woke up in a day in my life. :eyes: But its not always that way and I remind myself of that a lot too. Of the days that go smoothly that are so easily forgotten or smudged out of memory by all of the crappy days lol

this thread has been great. it's just good to hear someone else going thru the same feelings. i know my fuse is much longer when i get more sleep, but i dont see that happening til journey weans...............

I'm glad I found this post. I've been feeling much of the same since my pregnancy started taking it's toll on me. Now with a newborn and a 2 yo, I'm finding it hard to have a totally good day, without me loosing it. I feel so bad when I get angry over something my son did. When I think about it afterward I feel silly for getting angry over it, like him spilling his drink only because I gave him a cup without a lid (technically my fault) but the added work of cleaning up red juice from the carpet is just too much to bear.

I came from an absuive household and I worry that I'm doing the same things that my parents did. My yelling is out of shear frustration that my 2 yo can remember the tiniest details from our trip to the park, but can't remember one of the house rules that I make clear to him, day in and day out.

I do agree that things always go more smoothly when I get my sleep. Most of the time I get really frustrated is from lack of patience. And being sleep deprived leaves me with no patience at all. Sometimes it makes me want to put him in daycare because I feel like I can't handle him by myself.

SO, what to do? How did we ever evolve to be so demanding and whiny as young children? How does this behavior improve the human race?

-Jeannine

SO, what to do? How did we ever evolve to be so demanding and whiny as young children? How does this behavior improve the human race?

-Jeannine

Hi Jeanine-
Ezra was 2 when Phaedra was born, and that was the worst 18 months of my life, I think, but mostly because I felt so volatile. What I did was I started kind of meditating and rehashin things when I had screwed up and rehearsing mentally the way I would handle it next time. Now I say things like, "We all make mistakes," as I clean up the milk. I might say it through gritted teeth, but it still helps me remember. I have a no hands policy when I feel myself slipping, because I have hit them (not in a long time) and I do not ever want to do it again. There are certain people I have quit talking to, because I find I am dragging their negativity into my home. There are other things, but these are the first ones that come to mind. We are fighting the good fight to end the cycle of abuse, and every day is a new day.

Rachael... I've felt that before, too.

I have to say, I finally went to my dr. about it when I was feeling that way after I had #3, she was 4 mos and I realized I really needed help. It was like someone flipped a switch and I just felt my blood boil. I very reluctantly agreed to go on Celexa. I didn't think I needed it.
It truly made all the difference in the world. I definately had PPD with her. I felt functional again...and finally *good*. I realized I had been muddling through each day, doing the basics, adoring my baby... but not really able to enjoy anything. DH just didn't know what the heck to make of any of it.

When the rage comes on, it is a chemical reaction. The brain mistakenly re-uptakes the serotonin that is meant to stabilize your moods. An anti-depressant blocks/inhibits that from happening. Rebecca could probably expound on that in a better way (being her line of work).
After a week or so on Celexa, I had the strangest sensation...I would feel the rage coming on, and then just wash away in an instant. It was such a relief. Honestly, the minute I filled the RX, I felt relief, because I really knew in my heart that I needed help. I stayed on it for about a year.
After I had Mary Grace (#4), I went on Lexipro prophylactically. My dr wanted it "just in case" because there were medical issues we were dealing with. I stopped after 2 mos. and was fine.
Now, with Faith, I have never felt better mentally...the only difference in my life is that I am on Cod Liver Oil. ?? Don't know if that's what made the difference, but I don't know what else has. I mean, I have five kids...I should be outta my gourd!!! LOL
BUT If I needed it...I'd go on it again! If my kidneys were not doing their job and affecting my quality of life, you bet your butt I'd be taking medicine for that. The brain is no different. I can see now (couldn't then) that it had nothing to do with me loving my kids, dh, being a good mama, and it didn't mean that I was weak.

I am not a drug pusher, by any means... but you owe it to yourself to at least consider that it may be mild PPD causing your feelings. When I look back, I know for me...yes it was PPD. I don't have those feelings anymore. I have a cruddy day here and there... but that is usually because of external factors (raining, kids fighting, whining etc) or AF ready to appear. But those things don't trigger me into a snit anymore. I'm only sharing this in the case that it may help someone else. I really wish someone would have said it to me at that low time.
If anyone is interested, I can post a PPD questionnaire we have at work. I may just post it anyways. There is NO SHAME in this!
If you need someone to talk to, PM me.

:big hug: <-----for Rachael

:big hug: <-----for any other mama that needs one

...and #$%^& Tom Cruise.

Yep

I feel bad, DS #1 only ever heard talking and singing. DS#2 gets to hear us shouting and yelling. It makes me feel terrible.

3 days after DS#2 was born DS#1 was home with grandma. Grandma had been using M&Ms as incentives so DS was demanding candy. It went on with his demands and our refusal for about an hour. Then I collected all of the candy throughout the house put it in a plastic bag and tossed it out the front door. He has not asked for candy again and its been almost 4 weeks now. I was out of control though. Then DH had to clean up the mess from where the raccoons got into the bag and strewed candy wrappers all over the yard. Creating more work :eyes:

I have never been as short tempered as I have been since becoming pregnant with DS#2 and since giving birth to him. I have never in my life yelled so much. Its really bad some days. I go to bed horse because my voice is shot.

Nice to know its normal.

I have been working on it. Today was the best day we have had yet! Tomorrow I hope will be closer to the gentile discipline and kind parenting I was so proud of before I got knocked up.

((((Julie)))) Please read my post right above yours... sweetheart, it's not normal. It's VERY VERY common..but you don't HAVE to feel that way. Even little things like just regular exersize, or eating more fish and greens can help you moods.
((((gentle hugs)))))

((((Julie)))) Please read my post right above yours... sweetheart, it's not normal. It's VERY VERY common..but you don't HAVE to feel that way. Even little things like just regular exersize, or eating more fish and greens can help you moods.
((((gentle hugs)))))

Common vs normal, I am only 4 weeks pp, isnt that still just the baby blues stage? I agree that some PPD needs treatment but I certainly am not yet worried. Being only 4 weeks pp I have the blood indicator to tell me how I am doing. So far I am just having some serious temper issues

I think I currently am suffering sleep deprivation and I am wearing out. DH works 14 hour days and I have no family in the state. When DS#1 was this age I had a mother's helper who did 4 hours a week with me. I cannot afford it this go round and I have a toddler in addition to the newborn. By bedtime I am touched out and too overwhelmed to settle down and sleep.

Who on this planet with 2 kids has time to exersize and prepare food? Much less a food like fish which should be bought the day of. I am not about to venture out daily to the grocery store till we have at least 6 weeks under our belt.

My biggest frustration that causes me rage is being tied down to nursing. My toddler takes that opportunity to vanish and make trouble, he also has learned that I am slower then him and he runs away.

The other biggy we eliminated 2 days ago, DS#1 hates diaper changes he will fight and kick and scream the whole time add to it the newborn crying because he needs to be held nonstop and you get a mommy who is at the end of her rope. So we have just decided to potty train, easier to clean up accidents off the hardwood floor then to change the diaper. At the moment that I called DH to see if we could take up spanking I knew we had to do something. I know I wouldnt have done it, but I wanted too and that was enough to inspire change. I would be far more worried about myself had I not come up with somethng to change the situation.

thanks for your concern, check with me in a few more weeks before I go visit the doctor

julie

I'm sorry, Julie if I offended you. I truly did not mean to. :( I was in no way saying you are not normal...
Honestly, I forgot you are so newly post-partum, and I agree with you... your stress seems very situational. I had no support system w/ #3, new in town, 1000 miles from family...I really know how bad that sucks. You just desperately need a break. And the sleep thing I understand as well.

It really does get easier as the babe gets older/ can go longer between nursings.
I apologize.

Wow Julie... I could have typed that post myself. I'm going through the same thing with my toddler/newborn. I also had lots of help the first time around because we lived in the same town that I grew up. Now we are in FL and my DH is working and going to school. He leaves at 6:30am and gets home at 10pm. So I'm home doing everything for the kids, all day, alone. And to add to that, I've started back to work (at home) and am getting frustrated because I can't find as much time to work with 2 that I did with just my ds.

*sigh*

-Jeannine

I'm sorry, Julie if I offended you. I truly did not mean to. :( I was in no way saying you are not normal...
.

No offense taken. I believe that written discussion should always be read with tons of salt.

Isnt a certain amount normal at the beginning? I know for me the 3rd day after giving birth I am a wreck. I am told that the 3rd day after surgery or any physical major thing is the worst. Hormone levels really crash on day 3 phsycially the body crashes day 3. Both times day 3 has been really terrible for me.

Just like gettingoff drugs comingdown from preghormones is tough

julei

Hey Julie and Meemee-

You know how I said I am so much better now as far as losing my temper goes, well, I have been taking cod liver oil for over a year and still do. I do wonder if that is part of the difference.

Julie- we put a gate on Ezra's bedroom door after Phaedra was born so I had a place to put him when I needed to OR so I could sit with him and nurse and know he could not get away. Also, it was a place to put him when I needed to cool off. I guess it is not very gentle discipline, but it was sure better than the other choices I was coming up with.

Meemee- thanks for the encouragement about treating rage as ppd. I really think I am fine this time, but I sure could have used some help last time. Hopefully, other people will see your post and get help. What I feel now is little bursts of rage and then, well, something like a physical thing inside me that I can tap into and bring myself back under control. So yes, I feel rage, but I CAN not flip my lid, which wasn't true after Phaedra was born.

Julie- we put a gate on Ezra's bedroom door after Phaedra was born so I had a place to put him when I needed to OR so I could sit with him and nurse and know he could not get away. Also, it was a place to put him when I needed to cool off. I guess it is not very gentle discipline, but it was sure better than the other choices I was coming up with.
.

OUr house is not set up to be gated.

I can close off the upstairs but the living dining and kitchen are all open and no place to put a gate which would be safe. I can do a 10 foot gate to block off the entry and stairs but it would easily be climbed by my supertoddler. Or perhaps jumped over with the assistance of a chair pushed to the gate from the dining room.

Each day is getting better, just gotta wait out those first horrible weeks

julie

I had it bad tonight! Girlie wouldn't stop whinning at bedtime. "I need this" "I need that" "my mouth hurts" "I need a tissue" "I need my stickers." I smile and try to be calm while respectfully setting reasonable limits and responding to her resonable concerns.

During this time, little man is crying. Boobs don't make it better; binky doesn't make it better; he's dry; he's swaddled; holding doesn't help; putting down makes worse. So, I can only hold while he cries. This goes on for over an hour. I want to scream. I want to hit something.

DH is out shopping for my birthday. I call him and tell him that he needs to get home ASAP because I'm feeling like hitting (I don't and I never have - and I plan to keep it that way).

So often I feel this urge to hit something, but all the while I smile on the outside and I'm calm and try to parent from a point of love, but inside I'm boiling. This is primarily in the evenings.

I think that I need to take a kick boxing class. I'm not kidding.

oy, sorry you've had a bad night. find a pillow to hit so you dont hurt your hand! or hit the mattress.
oh, happy birthday!

bak----bouncing at keyboard

I just want to thank you all for making me feel normal! Seriously, I was crazy after William was born. I had 3 small children. It was bad. I often had to sit on my front porch to regain calm. I started on Zoloft and it helped, but not tons. I am really glad to know that the rage is a common thing.

I have done much better this time aorund. I started on Zoloft at 10 weeks post patum. I am usually fine for a little while, then it gets worse as baby gets a little older.

I really just want to say thank you for helping me to feel like a better mama!