Ds, 3, is nursing constantly. Every time I sit down, he wants to nurse. If he notices me, he wants to nurse. I cannot snuggle, lay down, sit down, or pay attention to anyone or anything else without having him either latched on, begging to latch on, or screaming because I said "not right now". I cannot stand it any longer. I am also nursing a 3mo. I wouldn't mind tandeming if it were a few times/day and when there's an owie or a need for security, but I bet this child nurses 30 times in a 24 hour period. I'm not exaggerating.

I've tried snuggling, having dh soothe and comfort, offered cups of milk (even expressed breastmilk). I've painted my nipples with vinegar hoping to make the milk "sour" and thus give me an excuse to not nurse any more. He didn't even notice. The other methods I know of, like saying they're broken and putting band aids on them, won't work because I have to nurse Zella and that would blow my cover, lol.

I had an idea, and I'm wondering if it will work. I'd appreciate your thoughts. I thought we would have a "no more milkie" party. I will have presents, friends and family, a cake with candles, fun games. We'll sing "happy no more milkie to you" and make a big deal out of "big boy" stuff. We'll plan it for several weeks from now so that we can hype it up with him. Will it work? Is there anything I'm missing? Do you have any other ideas that would help me meet all of his needs, help me show him that he's still my baby, without resorting to milkie? Am I missing a bigger issue here? What sorts of things say "big boy" to you? What things might be comfort items to substitute for the milkie connection? Any good books on this issue?

Please help me. I am beginning to resent this situation. I just want to enjoy him, and instead I am dreading the repercussions of sitting down, anticipating the constant whining, etc... .

:sadhug: Gwen, I don't have a lot of wisdom, but Bret did that too at about that age and I wasn't nursing a baby like you are so I am sure you are having a more difficult time. I had to be pretty firm w/ Bret about not nursing and eventually I got him down to just nursing at night (he would be big in the day and little in the night LOL!). He still says he's little in the night even though he doesn't nurse anymore!

The only problem I can forsee w/ the party idea is what if it doesn't work? Does he really want to be a big boy? I don't know...

Good luck :)

:sadhug: Gwen, I don't have a lot of wisdom, but Bret did that too at about that age and I wasn't nursing a baby like you are so I am sure you are having a more difficult time. I had to be pretty firm w/ Bret about not nursing and eventually I got him down to just nursing at night (he would be big in the day and little in the night LOL!). He still says he's little in the night even though he doesn't nurse anymore!

The only problem I can forsee w/ the party idea is what if it doesn't work? Does he really want to be a big boy? I don't know...

Good luck :)


I want him to want to be a big boy, lol. I think it's habit, honestly. It's one of those "this too shall pass" issues I'm sure, but the whole house is suffering because it's creating an unbalance here. Nobody is having their needs met. I can't even eat without him whining, begging, or nursing. It's all consuming for him. He'd rather nurse than play.

I totally and completely understand. I was hell-bent on self weaning my dd, but at age 4 1/2 she was still nursing several times per day (and was NOT an otherwise needy child, very independent) and I was also nursing a 2 yo and was fairly pregnant w/another! It made my skin crawl to nurse her. I knew I could not do it anymore, so I cut her off cold turkey and told her NO when she would ask. She would throw herself on the floor and scream her head off, but I knew at that point it was the lesser of two evils.

If he doesn't want to do it, I honestly suspect the party idea wouldn't be very good. It could make him resent it all more... like not acknowledging his feelings. It doesn't sound like it will be positive for him (weaning). And mainly I think it would make him resent big boy stuff in general maybe?

My dh at the time told dd that she needed to save the milk for the new baby that was coming. I don't know if that's a good idea either emotionally, but he said it lovingly and she seemed to do okay w/that.

Funny, b/c the toddler self-weaned shortly after that baby was born. He said it was all for the baby lol. He was my only child (out of 5) who self-weaned, and he was absolutely my most clingy one, so go figure.

I'd fear the party failing too... I mean, I could easily see how telling my older son "I'm going to throw you a party and then no more milkies!" would've thrilled him at 3. He would've agreed to it and everything. Had a great time at the party, and as it was winding down.... asked to nurse. And be completely confused at the idea that because he had a party he couldn't nurse anymore.

We had to just gradually set limits (he was 2.75 when DS2 was born), because when Nico was born, Daniel wanted to nurse whenever Nico did AND at other times of his own choosing. So, first I started decreeing that he could nurse when the baby was finished (he also still could nurse when the baby wasn't nursing). Then we did things like "you can nurse or I can read you a book/play cards/whatever" for some times. I also made sure there were cups of water full. Then, I limited his nursing to naps/bedtime.

Daniel is now 4.75 and still occasionally asks to nurse even tho he hasn't had milk in at least 6 months.

I will say that it was probably easier for me because Daniel had another oral soothing option: he sucks on my finger (NEVER his own thumb/finger as much as I might've wanted him to). So, lots of nursing times were replaced with "mommy hand" - DO NOT institute this unless you want to end up with both hands full (one holding a baby, and the other in the older's mouth). At least when they were both nursing I could have a hand free.... ;). Daniel STILL does "mommy hand" at times of stress and to take a nap. I've resigned myself to his VERY high oral need.

~amey

PS. I've recently suggested to Daniel that we have a weaning party for him and he'll tell me he's not done having milk.

What about a reward system. For each hour he doesn't nurse (maybe set a timer that will ding when the hour is up?) he gets a star. After 4 stars (I'm thinking start small, lol) you will do something special with him. Something REALLY cool, so he'll definately want to do it. Or you could use whatever reward you think he'd respond to. Then gradually increase the time it takes to get a star and the number of stars it takes to attain something. I'd think time alone with mom, doing something REALLY awesome, might end up being better than sharing a stressed mom. Along the way I would just stress and repeat what great job he's doing, how proud you are of him and what a big boy he is.

Is he drinking a quantity of milk? Or is it just for comfort? If he's still getting a great deal of calories from breastmilk, you'll have to make sure his belly stays full, or it won't work.

ok, hear me out...

i'm suggesting that nursing is not the problem-it is a symptom. baby is 3mo, right? in my reading i learned that older sibs who are still young themselves GET that baby is not going away after about 3months...for some reason they understand THEN that baby is not leaving.

it's devastating. mind-blowing. traumatic...(for some children).

but it can be surpassed...but the thing to realize is that regression is how a child exhibits strong emotion. he wants to be the baby. the baby nurses all the time, so since he wants to be the baby he must also nurse all the time...then he WILL be your baby again (in his mind).

i would suggest that perhaps finding a way to validate his need to still be a baby. set limits, non-negotiable limits, on his nursing. 3 times a day or whatever you are ok with...but do not haggle or give in. it will get worse before it gets better, but if you DO NOT GIVE IN it will get better. extinction behavior is when things get worse before better in behavioral modification. allow him to nurse when you have told him he can...at other times only when he is injured. sounds harsh but after a short time you won't have to be so strict. during that time expect him to be more needy and cranky, but it will get better in just a few days, distract him with crafts and 'together' activities...paint the sidewalk or driveway with water, sidewalk chalk, cutting up magazines and using glue sticks to glue them on construction paper, bubbles, whatever...

i hope that helps some. i read the above posts and just 'got' that not only is he not ready to wean-that this issue is not about nursing (for him), the nursing is a symptom of a greater issue within him...and if ya'll are aware of that you can help him transition. the party idea works well if the child is nearly ready but imagine your feeling if your mama and dad gave you a big boy party and tell you you are not allowed to nurse, when you really want more than anything in the world to be a baby just a little while longer? and you are confused about your place in the family? how would you feel? that's what i'm talking about-and what i strongly feel he is going through from your post.

hugs...

i'm so glad to b reading this post cause i'm currently reading how weaning happens...and i've seen the screaming 4 the boob. makes me nervous.
thanx mammas,
beth

I am going to offer a little BTDT here, that kind of contridicts what others have said.

My daughter Elizabeth was born when Steven was 2 1/2 and we went through almost word for word what you described. I was ready to run away with my new baby and really resented my sweet boy. All I could focus on was "Life would be fine if I could just wean this kid!!"

But....I realized that Steven was not ready to wean, and deep down I didn't want what had been a wonderful beautiful nursing relationship to end on a note of resentment. I realized that Steven was crying out "I want to be your baby too"

So.....I decided that for two weeks, i would nurse him every time he wanted to nurse. Happily, without putting him off, and I would even offer to nurse him when he didn't ask. I never said, "In a minute" or tried any other delaying tactics.

For the first 5 days, all I did was nurse. My husband brought in food or we ate sandwiches, the house was a disaster, laundry piled up. But it really wasn't any worse than what had been happening before--because nursing STeven whenever he asked to nurse didn't take any more time than putting him off, dealing with tantrums, etc.

And then, suddenly, I had my "old" happy boy back, and he quit asking to nurse. He still nursed at naptime and bedtime, and in the morning, but it wasn't the "all day" and every time I needed to nurse Elizabeth. It was like I filled up his emotional tank, and now he was able to move on and be a happy "big" boy.

Steven nursed until his 4th birthday, when he woke up and said, "It's my weaning birthday!" and he never nursed again. I tandem nursed for 18 months and looking back they are some of my most treasured memories.

I know you'll make the right decision for your family....this is a hard time for all of you. Hard for you because you're being pulled between your two nurslings, hard for your son because he's not dealing well with the reality of sharing his mom. You'll get through this--this too shall pass.

PM me if you wanna talk.

Right On Momma!!! We (we'll let me speak for myself) I do need to keep the focus...our babies!!!Thanx.
I'm not at all near where the screamers are..I have a 8month old. So I'm sending lot of symphathy u'er way. :rub:
beth

if you want to try another product that is like vinegar try 'apple bitter'. I used it for my pets to stop chewing on unwanted items. they had a spray and a salve. you local pet store may carry it. or they have that stuff to stop nail biting or thumb sucking.

how long has he been doing this? maybe some one on one time is what he wants/needs. do you pump? if so pump a few bottles and have an afternoon of fun just for him.

Oh, I hear ya mama - loud and clear!!!

Emma was 3 years 9 months when she weaned. I had been tandem nursing for 4 months. I hated it. You can read more about it here (http://www.amitymama.com/vb/showthread.php?t=202167&highlight=weaning+party)

We did have a weaning party and it worked for us. She asked for nursing later, but I reminded her about the party and the agreement we had. I was SO much happier after the party! :)

We did start small with the weaning, though. Just before the party, we were down to nursing only in our house and only for 10 seconds at a time (we counted to 10). Setting limits really helped.

Good luck!

if you want to try another product that is like vinegar try 'apple bitter'. I used it for my pets to stop chewing on unwanted items. they had a spray and a salve. you local pet store may carry it. or they have that stuff to stop nail biting or thumb sucking.

how long has he been doing this? maybe some one on one time is what he wants/needs. do you pump? if so pump a few bottles and have an afternoon of fun just for him.

Flame me if you want, but I just gotta say, this suggestion makes me ILL.

I can't imagine the horror for a child--who is picked up and anticipates the loving embrace and sweet milk from his mama, and BLECH--he's tasting a vile bitter taste? That's just cruel! The one time I tried this product with my chewing Mastiff, I was horrified to watch how she slobbered and pawed at her mouth. I threw it out after that. I can't imagine using it for a child.

I can't imagine a more terrible way to wean a child. Come on, breastfeeding is an act of love. What you're describing doing is nothing short of barbaric.

Edited to add: How do you ensure that the 3-month old doesn't accidentally get a mouth full of bitter apple? :(

so uhmmm does he like suckers? or popsicles?? :happy:

ITA with Laura, can't believe i didn't remember that. i was at my wits end with morgan when he was 2 1/2, i had had a baby over a year before and had been tandem nursing for that entire time. he was very needy and throwing fits...so i just gave in instead of fighting me. i did it for about 2-3 weeks and he naturally backed off...i don't remember his last nursing, but i know the day, and he was just past 35months (just shy of 3 years).

that is very good advice...i just remembered the limits we set, but i forgot that i did this when the limits caused more issues.

I can't imagine the horror for a child--who is picked up and anticipates the loving embrace and sweet milk from his mama, and BLECH--he's tasting a vile bitter taste? That's just cruel!

I have to say, I totally agree! My sister was weaned this way when she was about 3.5 and remembers it well. She still feels upset and confused. She made me promise that I wouldn't do that to Emma!

He was 95% weaned when Zella was born. It's the day I came home from the hospital that this started. I had tried the nurse happily on demand thing for about 4 days, but I was nutso. I don't know if I can survive 2 weeks, lol. I'm so torn. On one hand I think you are right that he needs me and needs to be the baby. On the other hand, he's matured and grown and understands SO MUCH that I don't understand how he could not understand that Zellie needs the milkie. He's excluding solid food and holding out for milkie. He's having breastfed poops. That can't be sustaining him, and he wasn't a big child to begin with. I'm afraid his health will suffer. Zella nurses so frequently that I cannot imagine just letting him nurse whenever, but I don't want to break his heart either. I've also tried to limit it to nap time, bed time, etc..., but it didn't work either. He just spends the rest of the day begging, whining, pitching a fit. Sigh. What to do, what to do. Also, I have Winnie to consider as well. I spend so much time either nursing Zella, nursing or fighting Finn, I can't imagine how neglected she feels. There just isn't enough of me to go around. Not to mention poor dh :eyes: , lol. He's neglected too, lol. I guess I need to think on all of this. Too many things to consider.

nak

have you read adventures in tandem nursing? It really helped me. I went through the same thing with Conor and when I finally let him nurse on demand for about a week, everything got better, it was like magic.

A friend of mine told her older child that the milk was needed for the baby. I know that some mamas have had that backfire (and the older child resents the baby), but in this case it worked. The older child loved being a nice older sibling and saying, "I can eat regular food, but you can't, you need mommy milk." Maybe you can tell your ds that there only enough milk for one child?

Good luck.

Tara

{{{{Hugs}}}} What worked for us was to cut back. I did this by offering other things. Dd nursed until she was 3 yrs. 1 mo. and we tandemed w/ds for 5 mo's. I would nurse ds first and tell her I would nurse her when I was done nursing him. I explained to her about him needing it for food and she can eat food,so that is why he needed to nurse first. Usually she got bored of waiting and would find something else to do. I understand what you mean about the "habit" For dd she cut back to only in the morning when she woke up and she was grouchy like it was her coffee! :lol: Instead I would offer to put in Finding Nemo and gave her a Carnation Instant Breakfast in the can with a straw. I know,not the best,but it worked. At night in bed I would nurse ds while I held her hand. We loved that and still hald hands in bed to this day. :heart: Other times I would offer her a treat that she really liked or to cuddle if she was in the mood. Unfortunatley,this is where she got her sweet tooth in. So now I am still dealing with that. :rolleyes: Best wishes!

Flame me if you want, but I just gotta say, this suggestion makes me ILL.

I can't imagine the horror for a child--who is picked up and anticipates the loving embrace and sweet milk from his mama, and BLECH--he's tasting a vile bitter taste? That's just cruel! The one time I tried this product with my chewing Mastiff, I was horrified to watch how she slobbered and pawed at her mouth. I threw it out after that. I can't imagine using it for a child.

I can't imagine a more terrible way to wean a child. Come on, breastfeeding is an act of love. What you're describing doing is nothing short of barbaric.

Edited to add: How do you ensure that the 3-month old doesn't accidentally get a mouth full of bitter apple? :(

I only sugested this because she said she tried vinigar and it did not work and if she wanted to try a diffrent product...the following might work better for her....not saying I have done or would do it my self :eyes:

maybe GSE or apple cidar vinagar would be less tramatic.... just throwing sugestions ;peek:

If I recall when my dd and ds were tandem nursing, I just started to do things with dd when ds was nursing in a sling. Such as, playing cards games, or drawing, etc. That way her mind was occupied with other things while I was nursing. This helped a lot, I remember the despair of not moving from the couch for the first 2 months! DD weaned when DS was 4 mos old.

Good luck and enjoy

Mary

i'm so glad to b reading this post cause i'm currently reading how weaning happens...and i've seen the screaming 4 the boob. makes me nervous.
thanx mammas,
beth


Afraid to mention where you have seen that? ;)

ok, hear me out...

i'm suggesting that nursing is not the problem-it is a symptom. baby is 3mo, right? in my reading i learned that older sibs who are still young themselves GET that baby is not going away after about 3months...for some reason they understand THEN that baby is not leaving.

it's devastating. mind-blowing. traumatic...(for some children).

but it can be surpassed...but the thing to realize is that regression is how a child exhibits strong emotion. he wants to be the baby. the baby nurses all the time, so since he wants to be the baby he must also nurse all the time...then he WILL be your baby again (in his mind).

i would suggest that perhaps finding a way to validate his need to still be a baby. set limits, non-negotiable limits, on his nursing. 3 times a day or whatever you are ok with...but do not haggle or give in. it will get worse before it gets better, but if you DO NOT GIVE IN it will get better. extinction behavior is when things get worse before better in behavioral modification. allow him to nurse when you have told him he can...at other times only when he is injured. sounds harsh but after a short time you won't have to be so strict. during that time expect him to be more needy and cranky, but it will get better in just a few days, distract him with crafts and 'together' activities...paint the sidewalk or driveway with water, sidewalk chalk, cutting up magazines and using glue sticks to glue them on construction paper, bubbles, whatever...

i hope that helps some. i read the above posts and just 'got' that not only is he not ready to wean-that this issue is not about nursing (for him), the nursing is a symptom of a greater issue within him...and if ya'll are aware of that you can help him transition. the party idea works well if the child is nearly ready but imagine your feeling if your mama and dad gave you a big boy party and tell you you are not allowed to nurse, when you really want more than anything in the world to be a baby just a little while longer? and you are confused about your place in the family? how would you feel? that's what i'm talking about-and what i strongly feel he is going through from your post.

hugs...

bravo! i second every word of this :)

weaning him is not the answer, mama.

Gwen, I think it IS important how YOU feel, too. Its OK for you to want to stop. Its OK for you to want to wean. Sometimes I feel like we are so caught up in not wanting to traumitize our kids that we end up bitter or resentful because we are doing things we DONT want to do. Your feelings about this are important too, and you need to look after yourself also. I found when I kept nursing dd#2 after 2 years and was due with #3, it was making me feel almost violated, because i DIDNT want to do it, but at LLL i was basicaly told I would scar my child for life if I weaned her. My point Im trying to make is, honor yourself also in this decision, and everything will work out ok.

You might enjoy reading Adventures In Tandem Nursing. If nothing else, you won't feel alone afterwards. Limits stressed Patrick out. I gave up fighting it. He weaned a month shy of his 4th birthday, and cut back gradually on his own after 18 months of tandem nursing. He gained weight when my milk came in, and Rowan's never been a small girl. No children suffered for lack of calories. I was pretty frickin tired for a while, though. ;)