A super center is going up right outside of my development. There are two main ways out and it is going to be right across from our usual route. That intersection is so bad already. I can't stand the thought of it but there's really no use in getting all upset about it, right? I'm sure most people in my area will be happy about it :rolleyes:

Their tactics boil my blood. Doesn't help that I recently watched that Wal-mart show on MSNBC or something.

Well, our city is fighting it and WINNING. You might be surprised.

We thought we were moving to the other side of town, away from all the hubbub and traffic and THEN they built a Super Wal-Mart on the main street that gets us to the highway. THEN they built all kinds of stuff all around it. NOW it takes me over 30 minutes to get down the road when it used to only take about 10. And is it just my imagination, or are the people who are trying to GET to Wal-Mart just about the rudest drivers in the world? :rolleyes:

The city won, its people lost. The city took over several city blocks and GAVE them to Walmart despite LOUD outcry from the public. The other Walmart in town has so much crime around it, several national chain restaurants closed because their patrons kept getting robbed in the parking lot. I do not go there unless absolutely necessary. I am trying to find a way to find local bizzes when traveling. We wound up spening about $400 at Walmart on our last trip as they are everywhere and locally owned places can't be found. I do not use them here unless I absolutely can't get something elsewhere. This is happening more and more as they are killing the little guys. I avoid Target if at all possible too.

Allison~That is great! Problem here is, I think my neighbors would like it :rolleyes: We do like living here but it has it's disadvantages. An apartment complex is about to be built in the sub-division for low income housing. The builders own another complex and it's riddled with crime. Over 600 911 calls in one year. The sub-division is fighting it but with little response from the residents.

Mothermoon~That's pretty much what happens in this county as of late. Well, the whole state for that matter. The county is using eminant domain and taking homes to put in a shopping complex with shops, restaurants and CONDOS!

I imagine it'll put a lot more of the mom and pop stores under. Makes my blood boil. I'm going to call today and see if anything is being done to fight it.

download this trailer of the new movie

http://www.walmartmovie.com/?track=walmar****ch

What's wrong with Wal-Mart? It's the only place here I can buy organic produce with my food stamps.

What's wrong with Wal-Mart?

I can't tell if you are joking or not. That is a pretty huge question to answer. I'll let PBS do it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

I am actually not joking, so off to PBS I go...

Slightly OT...here's the thing. I think that our greatest power is not in signing petitions and getting involved in political action (although that can be powerful). I think our greatest power in terms of affecting change is in how we choose to spend our money. This applies even more to things like big ticket items, as well as routine spending.

For instance, if you disagree with mercury in vaccines, you can petition the FDA to do something about it, and join action committees. But another very effective way to handle your concern is to address it with your pediatrician. Order the mercury-free vaccines, and make it clear why you are doing it. If more parents did this, there would be more of a market for mercury-free vaccines.

Another example: It is definitely a little more expensive to shop at our local hardware store, as opposed to Lowe's or Home Depot. But we have been shifting more and more of our purchases to this small, family-owned store. We know that the money is staying in the community.

I know that it would be idealistic for me to say that everyone should shop at small, locally-owned stores. I know that for various reasons, it's not possible for everyone to do that all the time. But re-evaluate your budget and ideals and see what *is* possible. Maybe it is spending a portion of your monthly budget at locally-owned stores. If you believe strongly in environmental concerns, and you have the money, maybe it is buying a hybrid vehicle when it comes time to replace your car. But even if it is $5-10/month that you spend in ways that are aligned with your ideals, it can make a difference in the local economy.

We vote against the big box stores with every dollar we spend at the small places.

Tara

Very well said Tara! ITA!

I only watched the first of the series on PBS last night after you posted the link and then I laid in bed half the night (thanks a lot! ;) ) thinking about the ramifications of the retailer driving the manufacturer. With the way Wal-Mart does it, it's the clientele of Wal-Mart who are pushing that retailer who are pushing the manufacturers. I would hate to think that the upshot of this could be a society whose goods are determined by Wal-Mart shoppers. That's what I kept turning over and over in my mind throughout the night.

We don't even have a locally owned hardware store in our town. It's Home Depot and Loew's or nothing. And get this -- You know I said how all the stores are starting to cluster around the Wal-Mart? Well, the Loew's is right across the street from it. And now the Home Depot, which seems to have a prime spot of real estate right on the highway and has been open much longer than Loew's, is now moving over by the two of them. It seems like sitting next to the competitor, but I guess it doesn't work that way with the big companies, huh?

With Elizabeth's question -- that is definitely a dilemma for all of us and of course, I find myself wondering about that as well. First of all, we are an "organic" family. We buy organic whenever possible. There is a small, home-owned organic food store in town, but it's very expensive. My best friend told me that I need to start getting the bulk of our items at Wal-Mart and getting only what they don't have at the Cupboard. I said I didn't want the Cupboard to go out of business. She replied that I didn't have the money right now and needed to shop at Wal-Mart until I could have the money to worry about keeping the other place in business. ??? I went shopping at the Cupboard yesterday and I consider the extra cost to be worth it as far as the wonderful people who I meet while I'm in there, the light and airy ambience of the place, and the whole idea of striving toward the common good.....

But I was struck by something on the PBS thing. It was saying how Wal-Mart has raised the quality of life of people with less disposable income. Okay, that's gotta be true. The lady who said she spends her entire social security check at Wal-Mart. Well, I'm sure that check goes a lot farther at Wal-Mart than anywhere else, so her life is improved.

I'm in a conundrum. :rolleyes:

Walmart will only accept the absoute lowest cost from its suppliers, and uses a fairly small margin of profit. How about the suppliers start offering those same costs to other retailers and letting them compete with the bigger stores? Other grocery chains like winco, foods-for-less etc et do the same thing, to get your product into those stores it has to be at the lowest cost to the marketplace - it is a dilemna - does my dad go spend $42 for prilosec at a smaller drug store or $28 at walmart, when he is on a fixed income... hard calls-

Catherine

But I was struck by something on the PBS thing. It was saying how Wal-Mart has raised the quality of life of people with less disposable income. Okay, that's gotta be true. The lady who said she spends her entire social security check at Wal-Mart. Well, I'm sure that check goes a lot farther at Wal-Mart than anywhere else, so her life is improved.

I'm in a conundrum. :rolleyes:

I do hear what you're saying FairyMama about your local stores.

In regards to people with little disposable income, does the chain really raise their quality of life? I seriously don't think it does. If you price check item by item you will find that Wal-mart is often times higher in price. They have their "loss leaders" but their prices are not cheaper overall.

Being able to buy a whole lot of "stuff" doesn't improve your life. It's just contributing to the cycle. Buy cheap goods from huge chain that in turn pays it's employees poorly & treats them badly. Who also buys at hugely discounted prices from wholesalers who cannot then afford to pay their employees a fair wage. Buys from foreign countries who use inhumane labor practices. The list goes on. Giving your hard earned money to such an entity increases poverty. It does not improve it.

I was kicked out of walmart for trying to carry my 8 week old 4 pound puppy who was sleeping in my purse with his head part way out on the strap. I never really went in there much anyway, but that was my last time. The man who asked me to leave probably had a higher chance of having worms than my puppy. LOL. He was very angry and rude and said we have food in here as he pointed to the Mc Donalds. So that is what they call that stuff. Food. :joker:

I do hear what you're saying FairyMama about your local stores.

In regards to people with little disposable income, does the chain really raise their quality of life? I seriously don't think it does. If you price check item by item you will find that Wal-mart is often times higher in price. They have their "loss leaders" but their prices are not cheaper overall.

Being able to buy a whole lot of "stuff" doesn't improve your life. It's just contributing to the cycle. Buy cheap goods from huge chain that in turn pays it's employees poorly & treats them badly. Who also buys at hugely discounted prices from wholesalers who cannot then afford to pay their employees a fair wage. Buys from foreign countries who use inhumane labor practices. The list goes on. Giving your hard earned money to such an entity increases poverty. It does not improve it.


YES! :ditto: :mad: :usa:

Walmart will only accept the absoute lowest cost from its suppliers, and uses a fairly small margin of profit.

This isn't true though. Walmart marks up many of their products HIGHER than other stores do. It has low prices because 99% of the stuff in the store is cheap crap from China. Walmart makes a HUGE HUGE HUGE profit each year. When they started getting cheaper products in China, they did not lower the price to the customer, they simplied put more money in their own pockets.

I wanted to share another Walmart annoying fact. Walmart has higher prices in small towns where they have no competition. That DISGUSTS me. My grandmother lives in a small town in Arkansas. They've had a walmart forever, long before Walmart was a multi-national corporation. They have no where else to shop and haven't since Walmart moved to town.

Now, my aunt lives in Memphis. They also have a Walmart, but lots of other places to shop also. My aunt does my grandmother's shopping. She was doing it at the Walmart in Heber Springs (where grandma lives) until she discovered that the prices on the exact same items were much cheaper at the Memphis Walmart. Same store, 2 hours apart. One has competition, one doesn't. Yuck.

I've shopped at Wal-Marts in MN, SD, MT, ID, WA, CA, Nevada, Utah, NE, Iowa, and maybe a few other states. I only buy certain things and I have never found a price difference in any of these states.

I promise I'll get to watch the video, just not this week. I have a very full plate this week.

I have found, living below poverty level, that Wal-Mart *does* improve my quality of life. It's the only 24 hour pharmacy around besides the hospitals and is the only one that has ever been in this area. They are the only store that gives me money back from my cash aid card *without* charging me money. None of the local ATMs do that either.

I'm sure my Aunt's observation is not a "I hate Walmart" thing since she LIKES Walmart. It isn't a state to state difference, it is a competition difference.

Saying that Walmart improves the quality of life is a very short sighted outlook. It may make your dollar go farther, but it is destroying small town stores, major corporations, and moving thousands and thousands of American jobs overseas.

Good thing the dollar stretches farther at Walmart - those out of work factory employees are going to need it.

Jim Hightower's book has a list of cities that have fought Walmart, and won. He also has a resource list in the back, on how to go about fighting with it.

Costco has a mark up of 14%. Sam's club is modelled after them, and Wal- Mart, to a degree.

Wal- Mart really isn't aimed at the middle class. It never has been. I'm not sure I'd kick someone who's already down, financially, for shopping where they can afford to shop. The usual solution for poor people has been to NOT OWN anything at all, nice or otherwise. Not just whims and wants- anything. Medicine, more than one outfit, furniture- things like that.

Also, I'm not sure- how do I say this? I worked in retail forever. People are protesting Wal- mart workers earning 8/hr, for 30 hours a week. I worked at high end department stores, and really nice boutiques, and 25 hours, and minimum wage was what I got. I managed a bookstore, for minimum wage, for that matter. And sweatshops- nearly all clothing is sweated. An almost embarassing amount. Even in the U.S.A.

You know the really plain clothes of the first Protestants- in the Netherlands, and in England? That's b/c it was made at home, not sweated, and also not second-hand.

I don't shop at Wal-Mart, mostly b/c I can afford not to. I"m not going to kick someone else who does, though.

Okay, I have unkind things to say about small town shops. Often times they suck. Very often the employees are rude, the prices outragous, and the owners don't care because there is no compitition. I should know, I'm living in one and have for about half of my life. The other half was spent in major cities where I could choose and often chose neighborhood stores or ones on easy public transit routes.

An example of local stores vs Wal-Mart. The local co-op does not take food stamps and refuses to. There has been a large demand, but they won't do it. Their prices, with the co-op discount, are higher than anywhere else. If you want to special order something you have to buy a case of it. They will not help me, answer questions, or return my calls. They complain bitterly about not having enough workers, but refuse to let people work in trade for a co-op membership.

Wal-Mart does none of this. They don't give me hairy looks for paying with foodstamps. They take WIC. I can order stuff from them and I can put stuff on lay-away. The staff are friendly and helpful and the store is clean.

I feel very weird for defending Wal-Mart. Off to watch the show. OH! I also want to say I agree with Tara's post 100%. In her example of the local Hardware store, we sort-of do the same thing. Our Wal-Mart often does not have what we want, and we can get it at the Ace here in town with little problem. Very smart staff, so long as you know to stick to the women.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/cdfst/smilies/twocents.gif
I would be interested in participating in a little 'Amity Study'
What if we came up with a list of 20-30 products and each of us went to our local wal-mart and wrote down the prices for these things in our towns. Also providing geographical and demographical information. I, for one, would happily send a finished report to local TV stations, newspapers and representatives, even if just to get 'on the books' and give more people a better chance at fighting a proposed new Wally-World in their small towns.

I challenge anyone to find ONE American made product in Wal-mart. This kills our economy. It makes it possible for Wal-mart to charge less--> become more popular--> Hard working Americans lose their jobs --> make less money --> have to shop at Wal Mart because they cannot afford to buy the very QUALITY products THEY were producing just 3 months before....
And for all of this, Our beloved President gives tax breaks for!!!

Wal-Mart DOES:
Promote city growth
Give to numerous charities
Provide jobs
Initiate increased traffic
Take money out of the community and gives it to other countries
Perpetuate a dependency on their existence

You have to weigh your own pros and cons as to what you want your Town/City/Sate/Country to become.

I do not support Wal-Mart. They do not receive one red cent of the money that I make selling American Made products. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/cdfst/smilies/usa02.gif

Our newspaper had good articles on the fights in Vancouver, BC and Campbell River, BC to keep Wal-Mart out. I believe both cities have succeeded and city
council have voted no to Wal-Mart in both places. In the same paper was an article on the declining textile market and how in the last year 20% of Canadian textile workers have lost their jobs due to downsizing. That is a staggering percentage and our economy is doing well in most regions. I have now decided that I can not go to Wal-Mart and spend 3.33 on their kid's cotton print shirt/short set. I will go to Please Mum and choose a 20.00 short/shirt set that will keep these workers (mostly women and immigrants according to the article) working. The city across the river from us has a Wal-Mart. Traffic flows well in all parts of this city due to great city/amenity planning. The 3 blocks around the Wal-Mart are the only places that I need to stop at a light for more than 4 light cycles. This means idling and polluting while I'm sitting doing nothing. I would rather not deal with the traffic nightmares as well. So, I am now declaring my Wal-Mart days history!

Mary

I challenge anyone to find ONE American made product in Wal-mart. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/cdfst/smilies/usa02.gif

Would that be the "Tom's of Maine" toothpaste?

My only "beef" with our local Walmart is the fact that they never have enough workers, so you search for 10 to 15 minutes trying to find someone to help you; and, most of the workers are dressed horribly. I do not think you have to be a knock out to work at Walmart, but clean clothes would be nice, oh and not smelling like an ash tray would be great. Of course, this is just my local Walmart, others may be different.

I do like their low prices on some things, but not everything is cheap. I go there for select things. In my town you can use your food stamps and WIC at the local farmers market, and the health food stores.

Jim Hightower's book is called " Thieves in High Places." He was the Texas State Agricultural Commissioner. And then he became a first class populist rouser. I heat him. Totally. the hightower report is online, I think. Maybe. So, find it in the library, request it if you have to. It's like he's listening in here, really, half the time. I'm serious, the stuff we talk about, he talks about- and researches. He's funny, too.

The tariff stuff- that almost started a war, a few times. It did start some, just not in North America, although there were tariff issues with the Civil War. Anyway, tariffs and import restrictions are what keep cheap clothes out. Well, cheap anything. Clothes are an especially sticky issue, since you don't have to be literate to sew well. Poor countries beg to be allowed to trade with the First World, since, well, their female, illiterate population can do the work. It's considered the first rung in industrialization. England went through it, the US went through it- Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire ( for history) the Sally Fields factory movie (?norma jean?) and, come to think of it, Susan Isaac's romance novels have it in them. Red, White and Blue, I think has the most.

Northern Europe was the China of the mediterranean, from the middle ages, onward. Then when they poshed up, their cities had suburbs making cheap knockoffs. A "fauborg"- a false city- is a suburb without the manufacturing privileges of a city. Fauborg Marigny, is on the outskirts of New Orleans, for instance.

The biggest headache on China, really, is that the military owns a lot of businesses. So we're subsidizing someone else's arms when we shop China. Which is really hard not to do,as we've all noticed. If we weren't ganked by China, with the latest set of GATT agreements,we would be set upon by Pakistan ( already P has better clothing production facilities than the US) or Nigeria, or the Central American nations.

Anyway, there are stock analysts betting against Wal-Mart, pointing out that the only reason people shop there is price, and as soon as a competitor gets close, people quit going through the sensory ordeal that is Wal-Mart.

So, vote with your dollar. And also, vote. And write, or call your various government representatives. They don't have to go along with GATT, or WTO, or anything. Economists believe in a perfect, slick, friendly trading world, and we don't live in that world. At all. Esp since 9/11. Did you know the US ran out of sewing pins after 9/11? They are mostly made in China, and shipping was held up. There are five key straits in the world- according to Mahan- and if you control them, you control world trade. FWIW, most reports have things for various terrorist groups trying to figure out how to mine some of these straits. What senator is for less security? I mean, seriously, we have a petroleum reserve, we have a mohair subsidy- for wartime purposes- really- not because senators think mohair goats are cute.

So, write, call, e-mail- The first gap in the us textiles wall was in the ?70's? Teh caribbean basin initiative. In 1950, most clothes were made in America. Five big pieces of legislation later, it's down to about (?)2%(?) Imagine if you could work to reverse at least some of it. It's not like people quit being able to sew in the US.

ari

All of you had made strong, valid points. "Sprawl Mart" represents everything bad about consumerism.

Wanting more, feeling entitled to more, and spending as little as possible in order to get more for less...when will it stop?

When a consumer feels entitled to more for less, it creates a cycle. It really is common sense that has been turned into the big lie: More, More, More and you will be happy.

The biggest headache on China, really, is that the military owns a lot of businesses. So we're subsidizing someone else's arms when we shop China.

Really though, aren't you subsidizing an army every time you buy an American made good too? My tax dollars subsidize our Army. Buy a shirt from me, sent some tax money to the government.

My food coop and farmer's market both accept food stamps (those are those debit card things, right?) also.

The tariff stuff- that almost started a war, a few times. It did start some, just not in North America

I believe that the major issue between the American Colonies and Britain were based on tariffs.

Okay, food stamps and WIC. Do you know why I don't shop Trader Joe's? They don't take food stamps or WIC. Often times with high end stores they don't want welfare recipients in the store so they don't take our form of money for food. Stores can choose to take them or not, hence my co-op NOT taking them nor my Farmer's market.

I've watched the PBS repot on Wal-Mart and I have a lot of problems with it. For one thing, the "reporting". I don't like American journalism at all anymore and I only do European or Canadian now. Even PBS has been tainted by the spin doctors, IMO, and this "special report" is one of the best examples of it.

We live in a country that follows the capitalist method of finances. It sucks. Everyone is part of it, though. Allison, you made a product and charge what it costs you to make, plus a mark up so you can keep going. Wal-Mart does the same thing, only it looks for the lowest price it can find for products it wants to sell. The companies that sell to them are in business not to employ people, but to make more and more money for the people/person who owns it. Let's take for example the Rubbermaid company featured on the show. So the cost of resin goes up and Rubbermaid ups their prices to cover the cost. This is logical. However, Wal-Mart decides that the prices are too high and won't buy as much as they had been buying from Rubbermaid. So the owners of Rubbermaid now blame Wal-Mart for having to sell the company to the competition. Did the CEOs take a lower salary until the price of resin went down? Did they look into using recycled plastic? Did they do anything to change their habits? No, they just passed the blame along and took the money from the sale home and went and got new jobs elsewhere while the people who do the actual work suffered the most.

Next would be the whole issue of loosing benefits. Want to know why I am in favor of Socialist health care? Because the issue of benefits would be made null and void. We'd all have health care. This is the same model that China follows and one reason why their prices are lower. 401K plans and Social Security are another way America passes the buck - we have someone else do the saving and planning that we ourselves should do.

Our money is not so much of the way we vote in this society. It's how we live that is the major vote. I can shop at Wal-Mart and not but unnecessary stuff. When I buy a Veggie Tales DVD and not a Disney one I make a vote. Some one else can choose to buy it from the local Christian book store and that is the way they vote. Yet another person can buy it used online and vote in yet another way. I also vote by *checking out* that Veggie Tales DVD from the library rather than buying it at all.

Wal-Mart does not make people buy things. People *choose* to buy things.

Say I need some strawberries. If I buy them at my local grocery store they are $5 a pint. If I buy them at Wal-Mart I can get organic ones at $3 a pint. Do I vote for organic produce and a big store, or do I vote for inorganic and a local store? I can grow them organic myself, but where do I get the plants from?

Last on my list of things so far is the whole "sending business to China" issue. Do workers in China need to eat less than the workers here in America? yes, the laws and rights of workers in China are different than in America. Working in America is not a cake walk people - companies know how to exploit workers to the best of their abilities to get the maximum amount of profit for themselves. For example - when the Dot Com boom went bust it was common place to fire a worker who was getting a large salary and hire someone new at a much lower salary. This happens at the local Toro plant here, and the meat packing plant. There is no such thing as job security in America. Yes, the wages in China are lower - SO IS THE COST OF LIVING.

Ah wait, one more thing - wheelchairs. My Mom shops at Wal-Mart because they have motorized wheelchairs and their isles are big enough for a wheelchair to go down. With the local stores, neither of these things are true.

I am of several minds about all this. I'm trying to bring information to the table.

The military subsidy. Okay, my US income tax dollars go to support the US military. I'm a US citizen. I don't expect my military to try and blow me up. I expect them to go and blow up other nations. Now, other nations- their military will try to blow up their Not- citizens. I'm not opposed to our military. I'm not thrilled with paying for another country's armed services. It's dangerous. In China's case, it's more direct than some citizen elsewhere paying taxes. In China, the military owns the company.

On poverty, and ownership, and so on. Now, I can spend $20 on a play outfit, but I don't know if that money trickles down, in any way, shape or form, to the seamstress who actually sewed the stuff. The painfully expensive, posh dresses at Lord and Taylor? Very possibly sweated, definitely low- cost to make- whether or not the factory owners want it that way. This has been written about in the Atlantic, Harper's, and in books. It's in the papers. Gap, Polo, and Target all use the same factories, but only Gap gets picketed- b/c it's more middle- class. I know I worked as a seamstress, for a short time, on excruciatingly expensive- think suede, hand-made lace, things like that- at minimum wage- for things that cost literally a thousand dollars.

For the playsuits. Okay, Wal- Mart aims at poor people. My MIL grew up poor. She remembers having one blouse, one skirt, and one pair of socks. The biggest development for her, in high school was that she and her cousin figured out they could trade blouses. Stephen King has the most heartbreaking true story in his book ON WRITING about what it was like to be poor at his school. So, that $20 is one playsuit among many for a wealthier kid, and the ONLY playsuit for a poor kid. $3.33 buys a week's worth of clothes, for $20.

Now, fighting Wal- Mart. Can be done, has been done, has been done effectively. Whether or not we agree about their financial practices, they are hell on the environment. Please, please, go pick up Jim Hightower's book, just for the resource list.

Unrestrained capitalism- it's a weak argument. Business is not the only player in a society. It is not the only claim on time, value, or creativity, or money. Even Greenspan has had his faith shaken in the last two years.

And healthcare? The National Association of Manufacturers is the group most opposed to national healthcare for most of the twentieth century. Now that GM is on it's deathbed, from healthcare costs, NAM is saying we need a national system. It's beautiful. Will we get it? Who knows.

The bet is that it will be a state by state system. The Northeast, with more settled, and prosperous citizens- sooner. Texas- never. Cali- if it were two states, one yes, one no.

ari

The bet is that it will be a state by state system. The Northeast, with more settled, and prosperous citizens- sooner. Texas- never. Cali- if it were two states, one yes, one no.

I honestly think the Govenator will not go for it, and would fight it every step of the way.

I want to put it out there that I am just saying what I think and feel about all this Wal-Mart business. I live in a very different part of the country than most people on this board do, so I wanted to bring a very rural viewpoint into this talk.

Hey, I'm with you on the poverty and shopping issue. Did I mention I did sweatwork in the US? Not long, not well, but that sense of desperation, and poverty, and optionlessness.....

I will never kick anybody who shops there. My mom was so excited when one opened up near her town in the mountains. She was so over the top with it. It's a big deal for her- she's poor as dirt, and sick,worse than she lets on. She's on disability, and for whatever reason, she's tried to hide that fact for a few years.

The poverty thing- I learned to sew, not so much for personal self- expression, but b/c I needed clothes for school. It was a really big deal to buy a pair of jeans. Like, I got a pair when I was fifteen, and then I didn't get another pair until I was in college- at 19.

My Dad thinks my brother and I are strange for asking for Gap gift certificates. He whines that the styles (were) so plain. J & I would explain, until we were blue in the face, that the clothes lasted ten years, and that's why we bought them,on sale, preferably. And why we bought the plainest, most basic, clothes. Black, white, and khaki, and plain blue jeans. It wasn't about self- expression, at all. It was completely about looking presentable for the next TEN YEARS. And yes, it's nine years into the last set of stuff I bought, and it's finally wearing thin. I'll have to save, for probably a few months, to afford a pair of jeans.

My Dad says shop at thrift stores. Okay, for whatever reason, they don't have dressing rooms. I can't afford to gamble $7.00 on something that won't fit. Or will fall apart in a year. Ten years, at $28, or less on sale- that's about $3.00 per year. I can afford that. And, I don't have to tear my soul out shopping. He asked me once to figure out my size, and I went shopping, and sizing, and cried, and felt horrible for days- I'm grownup and still financially dependent, for one, and two, there were so many pretty things I wanted, and simply could not afford. I'd rather not look, at all. I hate having my poverty shoved in my face.

Kids- I'll thrift store for them- the clothes have to last a year, two years is a bonus. My neighbor is having a thrift party when school starts, and I completely intend to dress the kids from her party. They'll be well- dressed, too. Better than I am, and it's worth it.

For that matter, the cutest, most suitable outfit I've ever found for my MIL, I found at Wal- Mart. Totally great looking, totally comfortable for her. I'd have bought it elsewhere, even, but it was a Wal- Mart house brand.

As for traffic, and neighbors--Wallyworld builds two story stores in the rest of the world, with stacked parking garages. They can do it here, too.

And the wage theft- pure, pure evil, stealing wages from poor people.

They need auditing, and examination, the same as any other company.

And, let's see, gutting American manufacturing- it's the simplest way to gut our future. not just financially. we drive detroit metal, not b/c I like it, but b/c dh is committed to American manufacturing.

ari

thank goodness we have no wal-mart :)

I am sorry they are building one close to you. That sucks. I hate WM.

What's wrong with Wal-Mart? It's the only place here I can buy organic produce with my food stamps.

You can buy organic produce with food stamps at Trader Joe's. I actually checked into it when you posted about it awhile back. Mine even has a big ol' sign out front saying they take them. :happy:

I can't afford to shop anywhere else. Sure unionized stores give their employees better pay and benifits but they also pass that cost onto the consumers.

My husband has been a union member/steward/chairman for over twenty years. Without a union, workers are at the mercy of management.

If at all possible, support union labor along with local growers and American-made products.

Peace

Yeah if I had the money to shop at those stores I would. When we use to make a lot of money I would shop at Fred Meyer (kind of like walmart but without the salon and lube shop) I prefer the service there. I know about the mercy of the management, neither DH or I have had a union job. I don't know if I would like to have to pay union fees though.

One thing about Wal-Mart... They may provide jobs, but in my area you have to receive food stamps to get a job. No, it's not in writing, but it's "understood" that's the case. I put in an app after I quit Meijer and never received a call-back even thought they hired many more people after me. All are on foodstamps. It's not that I don't qualify, I just choose not to use them so I can save my time for future emergencies. The other areas around rarely hire. I do live in a small town and there are only dollar general, wal-mart, and kroger for big stores.

They also encourage their employees to check out any other government opportunities. I guess I just don't agree with their employment practices. I'd rather not shop there either, but what do I do? I'd have to drive an hour to the next place to shop, and I can't afford the gas for that. So unfortunately my money goes to them because I can't spend it anywhere else and get what I need.