Wow, my stomach is really in knots right now. I was just browsing around and stumbled upon a very hateful discussion about Christians and public prayer. It seems like the law of the land is tolerance for all things...except Christians. If there isn't any truth to it, why do people get so offended? The bible says rejoice in persecution.

I really have to pick and choose my battles and I've been staying away from defending my faith to those who don't care to hear it.

How do you personally deal with persecution?

Wow, good luck with this thread. lol!
Anyway, basically I just don't deal with it. There are legitimate cases of Christianity being pushed on people and I will speak out that I don't support that and don't believe that it's ok but there are also people who are just determined to be offended by Christians. It used to bother me a *LOT* but I just don't let it get to me any more. If it happens online I just don't open that thread again. I've found that it really is easy to avoid wasting emotional energy online and that's to just not open the threads when they get weird.
I've only dealt with it IRL once and I do think I didn't react as well as I should. Someone on the email list for a local natural parenting group started a politically and religiously charged thread not expecting to hear anyone disagree. Well I did. :D And she got really nasty so I just unsubbed and left the group. I was moving in a couple months anyway, yk? I really should have stood up for myself and told her I had just as much of a right to share my thoughts as she did because really...when you bring up something charged like that then you have to be willing to hear more than one side and this girl just couldn't do that.
Anyway, like I said, good luck with this thread and grab some asbestos. ;)

It seems like the law of the land is tolerance for all things...except Christians.

Okay, I'm christian, but a liberal one (and, as an aside I've been thinking about forever, the more I read of Tiffany's posts, the more and more I respect her - we might not agree on everything, but I do have developed a lot of respect for her; she is wise :eek: ).

Anyway, I think you are right. When I went to grad school, the school strongly emphasized tolerance of diversity. Everyone at school was extremely supportive of diversity for everything, BUT religion (primarily Christian and especially that of my family). Whenever I mentioned that I was raised Mormon, I would get an "ohhh" as if that told them so much about who I was.

That said, I think you are right only in part. I think it depends on where you look. Where I was raised in the SF Bay Area, you'd be right on in your assessment. If you look where I work currently - in rural Kansas - you'd be completely wrong and, rather, the lack of tolerance shown is for everyone who ISN'T christian. It is assumed that everyone is.

I believe that for most of this country's history Christianity has been the assumption and it has only been in the last 20-30 years when there have been other views. So, in a sense, those who were raised Christian are feeling the impact of losing some ground.

Then, I believe that Christians (or anyone receiving criticism) have an obligation to look at it and question if any of the complaints are legitimate. I believe strongly that in this country many of those complaints are very very valid. As a large group, many Christians are judgmental of others. They can come across as believing themselves superior. They do seem to make strong statements that come across as holier than thou. Which is part of the reason why - though Christian myself - I tend to align myself with the liberal side of Christianity. Let me give you a quick example taken from your quote:

How do you personally deal with persecution? - note, emphasis mine

"persecution" is a very very loaded word. Let's go to Websters to define:

Main Entry: per·se·cute
Pronunciation: 'p&r-si-"kyüt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -cut·ed; -cut·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French persecuter, back-formation from persecuteur persecutor, from Late Latin persecutor, from persequi to persecute, from Latin, to pursue, from per- through + sequi to follow -- more at SUE
1 : to harass in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
2 : to annoy with persistent or urgent approaches (as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : PESTER

To me, when I hear the word "persecution" I think of gross atrocities intentionally imposed on others. I think of racism, I think of people being killed in the name of religion, I do not think of discussions which imply that Christian values should be kept out of political values. Being persecuted implies (IMO) being a victim and it is very hard to see - especially in this political climate/administration where the conservative christian movement has so much political power - that Christians are being persecuted in this country where they are the majority.

So, I'd go with Tiffany's advice because *sometimes* she is right :eek: :lol:
(Tiffany, I hope you hear that with the humor it was intended).

I.e., "turn the other cheek," but at the same time maybe try to consider (not necessarily agree with, but consider) the other's point of view.

This is a great thread so far!!! I'd agree with most everything Sunflower Momma said, but I have been attending a liberal Christian church for the past year. (almost a year)

I live in Wyoming....where everyone is Christian and if you are not, then you don't say that you are not.

I think things that the current President has done has put more people on the defensive about Christianity. Even some Christians!!! I honestly do think his administration is the only one I've seen in my lifetime that openly appears to push his own personal religion and this scares me so much. But that is totally just my own impression from where I'm standing personally/politically/spiritually.

I do remember when I was LDS that I often felt "attacked" by those around me because of my beliefs. And regardless of how widespread it is, when you feel that way it hurts just the same. Whether it is one person, or a small group, or a large group.

As far as what to do? I'd look to the Bible and see how Jesus responded for your example of how to handle it.


Michelle

As far as what to do? I'd look to the Bible and see how Jesus responded for your example of how to handle it.


Michelle

Awesome advice girl. ;)

the more I read of Tiffany's posts, the more and more I respect her - we might not agree on everything, but I do have developed a lot of respect for her; she is wise :eek: ).



:eek: Does this mean you won't chase me around telling me off anymore? :lol:
I agree with you on the term persecution. I thought of that while I was taking my shower. Persecution is what is happening in countries like China where you aren't allowed to have a bible or you get arrested for having church or worse things that happen elsewhere. Kids in the US who aren't allowed to carry a bible in school and also kids of other religions who aren't allowed to carry their holy book in school...that's persecution too IMHO. But people who are just talking and griping about Christianity? Nah. Annoying like a mosquito but not persecution. At one time I was *very* defensive about people saying negative things about Christians but the more you read here if you really hear what people are saying (as Sunflower_Momma said) then it's really eye opening and by listening to what people are saying you can change your approach to other religions and perhaps help to turn some people's opinions around. The bible does say there will be people who hate us for His name's sake but there are also a lot of people whose opinions can be influenced by just seeing a little more of His love in us, yk? I'm not a liberal Christian, I'm a very very conservative one but I try to keep in mind that Jesus never forced anyone to accept Him or what He was saying and as much as we may disagree with things that go on in the secular and political world, we cannot and should not *make* people see things our way because it doesn't work and only causes resentment.
I do see what people are saying about small, rural places. I grew up in a small Ohio town and it was generally assumed that you were a Christian. You either went to church like a good family or you were probably sitting around smoking and drinking beer. Very cut and dry. I remember my 5th grade teacher talking to a kid who was notorious for acting up *all* the time. He asked him if he went to Sunday School. The kid said no and the teacher said "Well you really should. It might help your behavior." This was in the early 80s so it never occured to us that that might not be appropriate, yk? But now in hindsight in this day and age it probably would have cost the teacher his job. Someone who openly practiced paganism probably would not have been received well at all so I can see how difficult it must be for pagan mamas in rural communities.

After a night and not getting involved I feel much better. I live in a very liberal place - Eugene, Oregon. The closest thing is probably SanFransisco. Lane County has few churches per square mile than any other county in the country - last I heard.

In a way, I agree persecution probably wasn't the right word to use, but it is also the beginning. If you believe what the bible says about the last days, it will likely be very illegal to be a Christian in the U.S. sooner or later. It starts with small steps.

I am way more into loving my neighbors than fighting with them. I just don't like being told where I can and can not be a Christian.

:eek: Does this mean you won't chase me around telling me off anymore? :lol:

That's right (well at least until the next presidential election :lol: ). No, seriously, (and this is OT), the more I read of your posts, the more respect I gain. Been thinking about telling you that. Now I have. So, from me to you, I apologize for creating an image in my head that was incomplete and unfairly biased.

If you believe what the bible says about the last days, it will likely be very illegal to be a Christian in the U.S. sooner or later. It starts with small steps.

No worries about that anytime soon, mama. I seriously doubt that will happen in your lifetime, the lifetime of your children, or the lifetime of your grandchildren.

Not wanting to have someone's else's religion given "rights" over another religion, or being subjected to Christian prayers as if no other religion exists, or should be represented, is *not* persecution. Sorry. But I don't buy the "Christians are being persecuted" thought. I just don't.

I think what Michelle said above is very true.... the current president and many of his backers and supports have done more to divide this country where religion is concerned than ever to unite it.

Grassaf,

Becca

That's right (well at least until the next presidential election :lol: ). No, seriously, (and this is OT), the more I read of your posts, the more respect I gain. Been thinking about telling you that. Now I have. So, from me to you, I apologize for creating an image in my head that was incomplete and unfairly biased.

:big hug:

Hey guys, I didn't mean to start a debate over the word persecution. My question was directed towards Christians and it was: How do YOU respond to hate?

Hey guys, I didn't mean to start a debate over the word persecution. My question was directed towards Christians and it was: How do YOU respond to hate?

Can we change it such that all religions can answer?

Hmmmmmm. . . How do I respond to hate? Haven't really been subjected to it in years, but when I was a practicing Mormon, I was subjected to lack of understanding and prejudging.

I think hate is a strong term and, as a former LDS member, I'd have to say that the LDS religion is one of the most misunderstood/prejudged Christian religions, so I probably have a fair amount of experience with diapproval, but I cannot recall an incident of true "hate."

My hs bf's mother used to subject him to TONS of anti-mormon literature and her biggest fear was that I would get pregnant and he would have to convert to a "pagan" (not using that term derogatory at all; just showing her lack of understanding of the differences) religion (thing is, I wouldn't let him because I was waiting until marriage). I knew she strongly disliked me for my religion, but, honestly, I didn't take it personally at all.

When I did marry the first time, my ex-h said he wanted religion in our home, but after we married he began to show his true colors and believed that anyone who believed in God was intellectually inferior. That was a pretty hard one. I lived with that for five years. At first, I'd go to church and church activities by myself. Eventually, I stopped going, stopped really believing, and then started resenting God (because I felt so alone). So, that was a pretty big one.

Then, in grad school, as I mentioned before, religious identification was the one area in which it was okay to prejudge others. So, I hid my religious views.

Since all that time, I've gotten older, more confident in myself, and less concerned with others think. It doesn't really bug me and I sort of let it go. I know what I believe (for the most part) as to God, Jesus, and what I think it means to be a good Christian (which is different from how I see much of Christianity being represented). I figure that if you are confident in your beliefs, it doesn't really matter what others have to say about it or you.

I figure that if you are confident in your beliefs, it doesn't really matter what others have to say about it or you.

:ditto: Yeah that pretty much sums it all up, doesn't it? :) If someone tries to prevent me from practicing my religion or tries to take away our bibles then we got a problem but just griping about us or talking smack? Pfftt...whatever. Sticks and stones I say. Let God handle it. :monkeydan
So LovelyMama....how do *you* handle it? :)

Hey guys, I didn't mean to start a debate over the word persecution. My question was directed towards Christians and it was: How do YOU respond to hate?

Generally, I say a prayer for the person and then ignore it. I have found that it usually does very little good to try to engage people who are biased against my beliefs, especially on the internet. If it is someone I know or a group of which I am a member, I will try to gently correct any incorrect information they may have, but I don't try to get into a debate or otherwise convince them that they should share my beliefs.

How do I respond to hatred of Christians? I don't really experience that. I have felt a bias against Christianity in places that should be secular, and I agree with it. There is a difference between being a Christian and being a Christian who thinks everyone should be a Christian (or live as if he were.) I like that in the US we have the right to be Christian, and the right to not be Christian.

Oh Jeni look at your graduate! He looks so handsome!!!! Actually all of your sons are really handsome.....oh, the headaches of having girls call at all hours??!!!

Anyway, congratulations to him...(is is Vincent, your first to graduate?)

Sorry everyone...that was OT but I HAD to comment!!! Having your first baby graduate high school.....oh my!! (my baby will enter high school next year 9th grade)

Michelle

When I did marry the first time, my ex-h said he wanted religion in our home, but after we married he began to show his true colors and believed that anyone who believed in God was intellectually inferior. That was a pretty hard one. I lived with that for five years. At first, I'd go to church and church activities by myself. Eventually, I stopped going, stopped really believing, and then started resenting God (because I felt so alone). So, that was a pretty big one.

I could have written that except our marriage was only 2 years. My ex was i definite agreement with me about wanting Christianity in our home and as a part of our family/life. When we married he wanted nothing to do with it at all, he didn't even want me to read my bible in the same room as he was in. It was lonely and I felt like I had to hide my religion when I was with him, that I couldn't express or share it in anyway. But that wasn't the only thing he lied about.

Anyway, that's pretty much the only instance like that. I've had alot of people disagree with me, but the area I live in people are fairly open and accepting of pretty much anything. And most people I meet or run into usually are curious to know about what you believe and why (should that conversation arise).

ok, rambling, lol

I definately don't feel I have ever been "persecuted",,though I have sure been flamed publicly for my faith..truly.

Note to self: never sit on a public panel of students at college and talke about the moments of awkwardness of being a Christian in some college classrooms, with heated discussions and such (talking about current events, or expressing my choice and reason to be abstinate in the human sexuality class(Not saying others should, but why for me it was the right decision),,,ohhhhhhh it got nasty!),,especially don't do the above while sitting next to your very close gay friend..you would not belive how I was totally ripped apart....more than the gay man next to me....or the physically disabled woman on the other side of me. They were given a measure of respect,,but as a "Christian woman" I was not,,it was shocking,,even the sociology teacher who set it up was surprised at the turn..

but how do I handle hate? I turn away, and pray for that person who holds so much hate and anger in their heart.....really that is all I can do, am called to do, and want to do. I don't confront, or argue, or reason, or anything,,I am not personally called to that, or equipped to do it..and my heart is too soft and I cry easily...

I guess I feel sorry for that person...I don't necessarily feel strongly that I need to convert people of other belief systems to mine,,but when I meet an angry person, I really wish they could know peace and love, you know?

I am not a Christian because I am afraid of hell and ****ation..I am Christian because of the realtionship it is to me and the peace I find it in. I wish everyone else could have that in their life...and I am really happy for those who have it a different way....guess I am not so legalistic that I can't see the peace someone might find in any other faith. But when I see such anger and hatred,,that you only see rarely..you gotta hope for a better future for that person! I can't imagine being that angry and ugly to another person...

I do understand (probably because I haven't aways been a Christian) that some pretty nasty things have been done (even recently) in the name of "Christianity"..I am so sorry for that, and understand those wounds...but I know that those things are really not of God,,,God loves EVERYONE..I am sure of it,,and if He were to stand in the crowd of angry people, even those who laugh at the idea of him, I am sure he would just love them anyway...how could I do anything less than that? How could any of us?

Michelle, he is Vincent, my oldest baby. He is very shy, so girls don't call very often at all for him. Actually, they don't call much for any of the guys - but maybe that's because it would be wierd to call my house because I also teach at their school. I am really feeling strange about his graduation - it's exciting for him and so scary for me! He's going off to Canada next fall to study theology, of all things. And, to bring this back to topic, he said that some of his friends actually apologize to him for cursing and saying anti-Christian things around him! How's that for not being persecuted?!

Not necessarily in the U.S., but just wanted to pass on some information on persecution of Christians:

http://www.persecution.com/news/index.cfm?action=fullstory&newsID=327

http://www.persecution.com/news/index.cfm?action=fullstory&newsID=320

It does happen.

:kittypink

Yes, so funny that most of the hate I have received has come from friends in Christianity.
Being accused of all sort of things...being lashed out upon. When you stand there and go, HUH? What have I done but tried to do good to you and you treat me like this?
And you dont have a clue why you are treated so poorly.
But how quickly people forget the good things you have done for them and how they only want you around when it is convenient or self serving without caring for your own needs.

BUT, in America, there is not a whole lot of trouble against Christians as compared to stories I have read other places. Look at Sudan, for example...that is hate.

It seems here in our country, if you can treat others with respect and give them their space, most people co exist ok regardless of religion or political practice....at least until election time rolls around *lol*

I do have to state though, shoving Jesus down peoples throats is not love or respect and can cause others to feel hate.
Evanglizing has to be more than talk all the time. One of the things that concerns me about Evangelical Christianity....the constant preaching everyone is supposed to do.
I know Jesus said to preach the gospel, but I do struggle with this area.
Honestly it seems like people are tuned out to preaching and are looking for a sign or example.
Which is something every Christian,myself first, probably does not fulfill to the fullest potential.

forgive me for not reading all the responses but heres my answer to the question.

" Christian: How do you respond to hate? "
As a Christian i believe I am , according to G-ds word, to respond to hate with love.

That is HARD but who said following the Lord would be easy, right? Sometimes I do it well, sometimes not so well, but the goal is to act in a Christ-like manner so if someone shows me hatred, I try to respond with love. I once told someone who was being rude and mean to a friend of mine to "lighten up. G-d loves you" and he told me to "shove my religious crap up my a$$" (nice...). I turned and smiled and said "I'm sorry you're having a bad day. I truly hope it gets better". It was so HARD not to respond to him the way he was acting - but thats what I feel we as Christ followers are to try to do - respond with love. TUrn the other cheek when the first one is slapped. Sometimes it might take a year to be able to offer that other cheek , but you do it as soon as you can.

I did see some stuff when i glanced thru about persecution of Christians. I've not experienced that per se - but I do get grief from many Jews about the fact that I am a jewish Christian. (some say I am "messianic jew" or "jew for jesus" but i don't affiliate myself with either group). I was born and raised Jewish, accepted Yshua as messiach and enjoy worshipping thru Torah as well as the gospel. Many Jews find me offensive and have said so - but I respond to them with love as much as I can.

I don't 'witness' unless someone opens that door and then i do tread lightly as I don't believe that most secular folks are comfortable with hearing the good news in a big way. Small ways. Little stories. lol. But i've never experienced persecution or hatred from other Christ followers.

Evanglizing has to be more than talk all the time. One of the things that concerns me about Evangelical Christianity....the constant preaching everyone is supposed to do.
I know Jesus said to preach the gospel, but I do struggle with this area.


I have to say that I have never truly felt "called" to evangelize, but instead I just try to share the gospel through the example of what it is in my life, living the life.

I recently had a woman contact me, she had been a single mother living next door to me when I was a single mother. I never once "shared the gospel", but did at times mention how it was my relationship with Christ that got me through each day. I was totally there for her, went and got her kids the night I heard her pass out in the shower after being out partying, I never judged, just loved. I intervened when her gangster boyfriend was slamming her against the wall, I could go on and on. I never shared the gospel message.

I just found out that she has become a Christian, and she credits the change to me, to the loving presence I was without lecture or judgement, just love.

I was so thrilled and honored....

I know that is a different topic, but the whole "evangelism" topic is so strange, often those who feel so lead to go out and "preach, share and spread the good word" come accross so offensive. They don't have the sweet unconditional love of Jesus evident in their life. What is compelling about a "you will go to HELL!" message? I would never have been drawn to that...

I guess in some cases, Christians invite the anger, because they send it out in the name of saving the world, right?

It states pretty clearly in the bible that we are to spread the good news, does it not? That's what Jesus did, he was both loved and hated. That's what the apostles did and they were all martyred too. Jesus can't come back until everyone has heard. Personally I can't wait for Him to get here and I get frustrated with anything that would hinder His return.

I don't think that spreading hatred is an effective way to share the gospel. But often the mere mention of Christianity or biblical principles sends people over the edge. It has been in my heart lately to speak when I feel led and I have personally experienced some major opposition. Of course your actions should speak for you as well, without loving actions, who's going to listen to your words anyway? Someone recently put it in a way that was very convincing to me.

"You are a doctor and you know your patient has a serious illness that could kill him if he didn't get treatment. You don't want to tell him he is ill because you are afraid he might be offended or upset at the news. So you decide not to tell him and he dies. Does that make you a good doctor? No! You tell him he is ill, suffer the offense and give him the cure. It's the only responsible thing to do."

We are the salt of the earth. What good is salt that has lost its saltiness?

St Francis said (loosely quoted, and I am not sure he said this, but it has been attirbuted to him ) "Preach the gospel at all times. Use words, if neccessary." I love this quote.

St Francis said (loosely quoted, and I am not sure he said this, but it has been attirbuted to him ) "Preach the gospel at all times. Use words, if neccessary." I love this quote.

That's a great one. That pretty much sums up that huge post I just wrote :)