Since there have been a few posts in the past eluding to this, I'm wondering how we can get more topics/discussion started over here? I would really love some good juicy topics but there only seems to be two or three new threads a week. Should we go to other forums (here at aw) and tell people to come here? Maybe there are more who don't know about this forum?
I think I'll go start a new topic now since I'm complaining ;)

I posted this question on another spiritual board that I am more active on.....but have not had any responses yet and really am wondering about this.

I'll cut and paste it here and maybe that will help both of us? (with more discussion and me getting input on this topic that I am wondering about)

Here is just a cut/paste from the other board that I really enjoy. I put it in italics.

Ok, it seems like the Bible is saying that while one is saved by grace through Christ....we are also only under the law of God alone....I mean, we are only to follow Him and worry about what He tells us through His Word.

So then, where do all the church rules and regulations fit into this? Like Churches that ban/reprimand/dis-fellowship/ex-communicate or otherwise punish members for not following their rules and laws. Or ones that take the judgement place for God....saying they are His mouthpiece/representative/whatever....... and judge and then punish their members?

It seems like there are few Jesus focused churches that do this. But isn't this in direct contradiction to what the Bible is saying?

Doesn't the Bible say something about "believers" rubuking each other? Or was that something I am remembering from the Book of Mormon teachings on how to deal with a member who is out of line? I admit to being very muddled in my mind with my past beliefs and what is emerging in me now with my Bible study.



If the Bible does support both (God judging and also your local pastor/priest/elder judging and punishing)....then what is up with that? Isn't it a bit of a contradiction? Isn't that serving two masters...meaning the Bible/Gods Word and also following the man-made rules and regulations of a organized church???

If we are all sinners, how can one sinner hand out punishment and act like they are "god" to another person by this authority?? Isn't that between the individual and God alone?

Michelle

I don't know off hand any scriptures to directly deal with that issue but I am sure there are many. The Lord does tell us to respect our elders and there are scriptures about how the Lord designates people to be in authority to carry out punishments here on earth.

In my church there was a man who was a longstanding elder in the church who commited a sex crime ( not against a child or a violent one thank God) But he was not removed from the church, he was not asked to leave. Our whole church prayed for him and lifted him up. Yes, he was not allowed to be an "elder" any more with good reason, but in no way did the Church tell him to leave. I know there are some denominations who are very judgemental etc. but that is not what God wants. He does want people to be accountable for their sins but he doesn't want anyone to play "god" and make them leave etc.
I think those that do things like that are trying to play "god" and/or put on a good show for their "followers" Yes, I think if someone in a church were to commit a rape or something else violent like that against someone in the church, they might be asked to leave for safety concerns but not because they were trying to turn them away because they are "bad"

I don't think it's a contradition or serving two masters when there are others who are in a position to repremand or discipline. Those are God given positions, and hopefully the people who are in that position follow God's commands and rules and pray faithfully about issues when they arise. I think if this were not the way things were to be, it would be anarchy. kwim.

Thanks for point out these things mamacharly....if you think of scriptures about giving power to human over human, LMK? I'll look in my topical index in the meantime.

I totally understand your points and they make sense, however I still know how many times I've seen people in "authroity" in religion/churches abuse that power. I've seen more mis-use than good stewardship....I guess that is why I started out down wondering about this in the first place.

Somtimes it seems like we/people/church members get overly caught up in the rules, expectations, bylaws of the particular church that we/they lose sight of worship and daily learning from God/Jesus etc.... To the point that some churches I've visited are so busy with the "other" that there really is hardly any teaching/connection with Jesus' teachings, KWIM?

Just trying to keep my own personal focus and all that.....I once attended a church that the focus was on the human-made rules and regs so much that I never learned much Biblically while there. Everyone was too busy with the "orgainzational or institutional" aspect of the church to really try to follow and learn what Jesus was all about in his teachings....Just trying to avoid falling into this again, I guess. I think I am easily drawn into this kind of "busywork" and lose my focus easily.

But also wondering in general since I'm personally trying very hard to follow what I find from Jesus' example rather than "other". This is a challenge to me.

Ach, not verbalizing myself really well.....I better stop since I'm not being clear.

Michelle