Since we started talking about this in another post, what are you thoughts/feelings/beliefs on the rapture? Do you believe in it, why? Are you post,pre,mid trib, why? Are you scared of it? Etc... anything you want to share.

Well Charlotte, I said I would post if you started it! LOL!

I said earlier that I am not totally convinced of the rapture, and after you asked why, I had to really think about that. I guess the reason I am not 100% convinced is the same as why I am not 100% sure it is hogwosh...I just haven't delved enough into it myself, the Rapture as its own topic and event, to say "Absolutely I know that the true believers will be wisked away at some point"..I couldn't argue the point to someone like I could the basics of the Gospel..I am not solid in it, so I don't debate it... I hope that it is coming soon, I hope that it is true and we will be spared the ugliness to come, but I just haven't studied that alone enough...

But I do absolutely totally 100% believe that there will be a period of great turmoil, that is the enemy having his last heyday before Christ returns. I also believe 100% that we are very close to that time period, if not in the early phases of it. I have studied Biblical prophecy enough to know for myself, not enough to tell every skeptic here why I believe it,,but I have great hope that in my lifetime, Christ will return. I do hope that somehow those who have accepted Christ into their hearts will be spared the trials ahead,,I hope that desperately....

Am I afraid? not in the least! I am joyful, I am eager, there are days when I ask "Why not today Lord? Today would be lovely"... There are days my heart flutters in anticipation, seeing events that I believe are the "labor pains" that grow closer and closer together as that glorious time approaches...there are times I pray that my children will not endure too much of the ugliness that this world can hold...I long for the day I will see my savior face to face...

I love in the last book from the Left Behind series, how they portrayed the personal intimate time each beliver got to have with Christ, all at the same time, but personal and intimate for each...I can't wait for my turn!

I don't believe in it, but I guess I really don't care either way. I don't get too caught up in thinking about end times because it's something so entirely outside my control, I figure I am happier not worrying about it. From what I've heard though, the idea that there will be a rapture is pretty recent phenomenon, originating in the 1930s.

I don't worry because I'm Buddhist, lol! The Rapture to me just means shorter lines at my local coffee shop. ;)

I don't worry because I'm Buddhist, lol! The Rapture to me just means shorter lines at my local coffee shop. ;)

Exactly. Since I'm Pagan, I relate.


I do not discout the possibility of the end of things as we know it one day, at the hands of humanity, but I do not adhere to the beliefs of a "rapture."

Grassaf,

Becca

I used to think the idea of the rapture was a way for the enemy to trick people into thinking they didn't need to be aware of the signs of the times.

However, I started studying revelations and now I am more inclined to believe in the rapture than before. There is a lot of scripture to support this point of view, but my main reason for believing it is the attitude it creates. Are you living like Christ could return at any moment, or do you have at least 7 more years?
I've been listening to Jon Courson's thru the bible mp3 study on revelations but below are some excerpts from Revelation Unveiled by Tim Lahaye.

"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth."(Rev. 3:10) The absence of any mention of the church in the rest of rev. indicates that it is not on the earth during the tribulation. There are 16 referenences to the church in chapters 1-3.

The extensive use of old testament language and symbols in chapters 4-18 is an indication of israel, not the church. This is understandable since the church age is the time of the Gentiles, whereas the trib. is the time of Jacob's trouble or the sevientieth week of Daniel, determined by God for His dealings with Israel.

"Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words." (1Thes 4:13-18)
To appreciate the contrast between this event and the Glorious Appearing at the end of the trib. we should read our Lord's own description of that event in Mat. 24:27-31:
"For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

The Glorious Appearing could not come today! It is at least 7 years from today. The rapture could come at any moment:
"...for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and tru God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."(1thes 1:9-10)

These thessalonian Christians were not sitting around waiting for the rapture, they were "serving the living and true God" in an attitude of expectancy "to wait for his Son". That is as it should be, for it could take place at any moment or it could be a generation or more away....that rapture is scheduled prior to the Glorious Appearing.

There's lot more but hubby's on the phone :)

Not convinced on the rapture either. Been said for...over 2000 years now. I would love it if God was coming to take his people, but people like to capitalize on Gods favorites on this planet. They all think it is THEM!


If rapture does happen, I think we will be surprised at who is left behind.....

If rapture does happen, I think we will be surprised at who is left behind.....


I've pondered what the rest of the world would think if we were raptured. I could see survivors of the church (probably an enourmous amount) not acknowledging the event. My guess is that is how the truth of strange disappearances will be hidden from the masses... if and when.

I've got to pull the rest of those scriptures out. There are a bunch like the ones above that relate to sparing the faithful from wrath. If not by rapture, how will they be spared?

Not entirely sure I believe in the Rapture, either. :wah:

For instance, the mark of the beast of 666 was Emporer Nero-Roman numerals can stand for letters too. The visions wer so vague,I mean there are so many interpretations that are possible.

Since we started talking about this in another post, what are you thoughts/feelings/beliefs on the rapture? Do you believe in it, why? Are you post,pre,mid trib, why? Are you scared of it? Etc... anything you want to share.

I believe the rapture will happen before the tribulation, and no I'm not scared, I'm actually beyond thrilled for it to happen.

For instance, the mark of the beast of 666 was Emporer Nero-Roman numerals can stand for letters too. The visions wer so vague,I mean there are so many interpretations that are possible.

Bible prophecy is so real. There are hundreds of instances of fulfilled prophecy where after the fact it is totally clear what the prophecy was talking about. Until they are fulfilled, like the mark of the beast, one can only speculate. Did you know that the upc bar code is 3 groups of six?

Bible prophecy is so real. There are hundreds of instances of fulfilled prophecy where after the fact it is totally clear what the prophecy was talking about. Until they are fulfilled, like the mark of the beast, one can only speculate. Did you know that the upc bar code is 3 groups of six?
At the time the book of Revelation was written, Nero was in power, persecuting the Christians. It's just a coincidence that "666" stands for Kaiser Nero?? Maybe you think it can mean Nero AND the bar code thing?

The AntiChrist will come from Rome, too.

Thanks for posting-I love a good discussion! Usually the only thing I get to debate is the reasons for eating vegetables LOL.

I have not read the responses yet, but can someone please expalin what the veiws are on the following?

" post,pre,mid trib " (I copied that from the OP)

Michelle

Ok....is Revelation the main place in the Bible to look for information on this topic? Are there any other locations in the Bible?

Would one look up "rapture" in the topical index? Or are there other names commonly used?

Revelation reads to me like Dr. Suess wrote it while on a mind altering drug.

I don't want to read it with some Bible commentary because then I am getting some man/woman/human interpretation on it. I've only been really studying my Bible in-depth, (on my own with prayer as my study-guide), for the past couple months and have not even attempted to read Revelation after glancing at it!!

This topic is interesting. And maybe beyond where I am at in my own spiritual walk and study at this time. (hence the Dr. Suess on drugs feeling)


Michelle

Well Charlotte, I said I would post if you started it! LOL!

I said earlier that I am not totally convinced of the rapture, and after you asked why, I had to really think about that. I guess the reason I am not 100% convinced is the same as why I am not 100% sure it is hogwosh...I just haven't delved enough into it myself, the Rapture as its own topic and event, to say "Absolutely I know that the true believers will be wisked away at some point"..I couldn't argue the point to someone like I could the basics of the Gospel..I am not solid in it, so I don't debate it... I hope that it is coming soon, I hope that it is true and we will be spared the ugliness to come, but I just haven't studied that alone enough...

But I do absolutely totally 100% believe that there will be a period of great turmoil, that is the enemy having his last heyday before Christ returns. I also believe 100% that we are very close to that time period, if not in the early phases of it. I have studied Biblical prophecy enough to know for myself, not enough to tell every skeptic here why I believe it,,but I have great hope that in my lifetime, Christ will return. I do hope that somehow those who have accepted Christ into their hearts will be spared the trials ahead,,I hope that desperately....

Am I afraid? not in the least! I am joyful, I am eager, there are days when I ask "Why not today Lord? Today would be lovely"... There are days my heart flutters in anticipation, seeing events that I believe are the "labor pains" that grow closer and closer together as that glorious time approaches...there are times I pray that my children will not endure too much of the ugliness that this world can hold...I long for the day I will see my savior face to face...

I love in the last book from the Left Behind series, how they portrayed the personal intimate time each beliver got to have with Christ, all at the same time, but personal and intimate for each...I can't wait for my turn!


Oh oh , I found you Becca! OT.......I just posted a thread here looking for you but not remembering your username.

I'm Pm-ing you now. Just ignore that other thread.....since I know who you are.

Michelle

I don't worry because I'm Buddhist, lol! The Rapture to me just means shorter lines at my local coffee shop. ;)


Hey there!
:happy:

Does Buddhism have anything anywhere like a kind of "end times" theory?

I wonder if other religions have a "end times" type of teaching? It seems that they (religions) all have somewhat similar creation stories....This thread is making me think to the other end of it.

Michelle

The Rapture to me just means shorter lines at my local coffee shop. ;)
But all those "unmanned" cars will cause you some traffic problems. ;)

I was raised Christian, and never once believed in the Rapture, nor did the rest of our congregation. I only learned of it when I went to college and majored in religious studies.

After reading some responses....(still reading) then the anti-Christ would have to be on the earth now?

I've always told my dh that Bush is the anti-Christ.......(I know everyone is laughing now)

So, doesn't that person have to be making headlines/be known before any Rapture, or tribulation (hope I'm using the correct terms here) or any of that?

Michelle

Boy, I look like a total loser responding all by myself. :hahaha:

I'd like to hear some of our LDS mamas respond. It has been years, but I thought the LDS teachings were slightly different. Like, mainstream Christianity (some of it)belives the faithful will be literally taken up or raptured....but I think I remember LDS teaching that all the LDS faithfull will be called to Zion where they will be safe, but will still be here on earth? (and not raptured) Zion being somewhere in Missouri....I also thought I read that this is where the garden of eden literally was located???

I need to pull out my LDS books....but I think this viewpoint will add to this discussion if a active LDS mama can jump in since I'm not a representative of the LDS faith. (just a former member with a foggy memory....like I said, I need to drag out my LDS books)

Michelle

*dons flame proof suit*

Ok, jmo here. I believe that the rapture theory is totally bunk.I'm a fairly conserv. christian. But scripturally, without taking these verses out of context, the ones used to support the theory, and by actually reading through revelations without a preconceived notion of the rapture you see it's not biblically sound.

The anti-christ will come and we will have seven years of peace. then after hie reign of terror, the Lord will come back to earth. The sky roll roll back and every eye will see, every knee will boy and acknowledge him as Lord. This is where he destroys Satan, the antichrist and takes up his believers. In reveltions it talks about a great deception. I think this rapture theory is part of that. It's providing, consciously or not, a false sense of hope. Look at the "Left Behind" series of books. These "christians" were left behind for not having a true faith, but are able to redeem themselves afterwards.

There is a sense that there will be a second chance. Also it teaches that the antichrist will come AFTER the rapture. This also will confuse christians. The antichrist will come, and many will not believe he is who he is, they will be fooled because "it can't be the AC, the rapture hasn't happened".

And lastly, sorry for jumpin around a bit, the SECOND coming of Christ will be after the tribulation, after the LAST trumpet sounds. So the first coming was a man on earth. The second coming is when he comes to destroy the earth, his final coming. There is no where, at all, in anyway a mention in the bible about a middle coming, of a second then thrid coming. There are 2, not 3. He won't come and rapture his people secretly and then come again. I mean, what would the rapture be, Jesus version 1.5? lol, sorry hee hee.

Ok, please please no flamage... just offering my thoughts, views and beliefs on it. :)

Ok, there is my opinion and what I have learned through alot of reading, research, talking, and debating. This is what I learned by

I've got to pull the rest of those scriptures out. There are a bunch like the ones above that relate to sparing the faithful from wrath. If not by rapture, how will they be spared?

I think this is sparing them the wrath of the Lord as he destroys the earth after the tribulation. And for the church being around for the tribulation, of course it will, imo. Christians will be persecuted and killed during that period, and Christians are warned against accepting the mark of the beast, which is only something that occurs after the antichrist has come into power.

I think the rapture gives people the feeling that they can basically be a lukewarm christian, or don't have to believe/follow. But once the see the "rapture" it's proof of their beliefs, and then they will have a second chance to redeem themselves before Christs final coming.

Great Points! Sort of hit why I just haven't been convinced of the rapture,,it doesn't totally fit in with what I have understood is in the future....

Momof6~ OMGolly, I have said the same stinking thing so many times! LOL! And I am registered Republican! When do we get to have coffee? Oh, I know,,next time I drive 8 hours,,,or you could come see me! LOL!

I guess I think that we will (this generation)see the AC come into his false glory..I suspect he is someone we "know" now,,someone looked up to in the world but hasn't really stepped out there as a huge leader and changer of the world,,I sort of doubt is really is "W" because he would have to do so much and change so much to become the "great hero" and deceiver of the world that the Bible claims,,I think too many people dislike and distrust him for him to be the one. plus I am sure the AC will be able to pronouce nuclear....but of course I could be wrong....

Would one look up "rapture" in the topical index? Or are there other names commonly used?

The word rapture is not in the bible. In fact there is no term or mention of this at all. It's not even discussed. The sections of the bible supossedly pertaining to this are, "he will come like a theif in the night", and the verse about "one will be taken and the other left".

At work and off the top of my head can't think of them. The verse about a thief in the night, pertains to the fact that Jesus will come unexpectedly. Think about it, a theif is never expected. But it also happens after the final trumpet sounds and he comes in the clouds for all the world to see. People use this verse to say that he will come silently, hence the "mysterious" secretive rapture theory.

The verse about one person being taken and the other left, once again if read in context, is something that again happens AFTER the very last trumpet sounds and he comes in all his glory, not secretly.

The rapture theory came about early in the last century, originating in the Catholic church. Not sure if it's taught in the catholic church, but that's where it stemmed from. A young girl, early teens, had a dreams about this whole secret rapture thing. She told her mother about it, and her mother told the priest and it was assumed to be a vision of some sort. Now as I've come to see about 40-50% of Protestant christian churches teach this as doctrine.

It's quite interesting to research this topic and to really study revelations. You have to read and study it from the point of view of someone 2000 years ago or so.Terms, descriptions, etc are all based on the knowledge, culture, technology(or lack of) and understanding of those times.

There really is so much, a concordance is good to use, as it will help explain the different meanings. And the bible version you use will really affect the way things are worded and portrayed.

Ok, babbling again, I love discussions like this and being able to see people's points of view.

ETA: pardon the spelling mistakes, I type really fast, but think faster than I type, hee hee

plus I am sure the AC will be able to pronouce nuclear....but of course I could be wrong....

Sorry, I about peed my pants over that, lol...

Great Points! Sort of hit why I just haven't been convinced of the rapture,,it doesn't totally fit in with what I have understood is in the future....

Momof6~ OMGolly, I have said the same stinking thing so many times! LOL! And I am registered Republican! When do we get to have coffee? Oh, I know,,next time I drive 8 hours,,,or you could come see me! LOL!

I guess I think that we will (this generation)see the AC come into his false glory..I suspect he is someone we "know" now,,someone looked up to in the world but hasn't really stepped out there as a huge leader and changer of the world,,I sort of doubt is really is "W" because he would have to do so much and change so much to become the "great hero" and deceiver of the world that the Bible claims,,I think too many people dislike and distrust him for him to be the one. plus I am sure the AC will be able to pronouce nuclear....but of course I could be wrong....



I can't belive it! LOL I'm not the only one who has said this. One of these days, we will get together for coffee. :)

Michelle

*dons flame proof suit*

Ok, jmo here. I believe that the rapture theory is totally bunk.I'm a fairly conserv. christian. But scripturally, without taking these verses out of context, the ones used to support the theory, and by actually reading through revelations without a preconceived notion of the rapture you see it's not biblically sound.

The anti-christ will come and we will have seven years of peace. then after hie reign of terror, the Lord will come back to earth. The sky roll roll back and every eye will see, every knee will boy and acknowledge him as Lord. This is where he destroys Satan, the antichrist and takes up his believers. In reveltions it talks about a great deception. I think this rapture theory is part of that. It's providing, consciously or not, a false sense of hope. Look at the "Left Behind" series of books. These "christians" were left behind for not having a true faith, but are able to redeem themselves afterwards.

There is a sense that there will be a second chance. Also it teaches that the antichrist will come AFTER the rapture. This also will confuse christians. The antichrist will come, and many will not believe he is who he is, they will be fooled because "it can't be the AC, the rapture hasn't happened".

And lastly, sorry for jumpin around a bit, the SECOND coming of Christ will be after the tribulation, after the LAST trumpet sounds. So the first coming was a man on earth. The second coming is when he comes to destroy the earth, his final coming. There is no where, at all, in anyway a mention in the bible about a middle coming, of a second then thrid coming. There are 2, not 3. He won't come and rapture his people secretly and then come again. I mean, what would the rapture be, Jesus version 1.5? lol, sorry hee hee.

Ok, please please no flamage... just offering my thoughts, views and beliefs on it. :)

Ok, there is my opinion and what I have learned through alot of reading, research, talking, and debating. This is what I learned by


Amber,

No flames here. I find your post really really interesting. Ready to hear more of what you have to say.

Really very very fascinating. I always wondered how the viewpoint like in the Left Behind books came about since I don't see it that way in the Bible.

Michelle

The word rapture is not in the bible. In fact there is no term or mention of this at all. It's not even discussed. The sections of the bible supossedly pertaining to this are, "he will come like a theif in the night", and the verse about "one will be taken and the other left".

At work and off the top of my head can't think of them. The verse about a thief in the night, pertains to the fact that Jesus will come unexpectedly. Think about it, a theif is never expected. But it also happens after the final trumpet sounds and he comes in the clouds for all the world to see. People use this verse to say that he will come silently, hence the "mysterious" secretive rapture theory.

The verse about one person being taken and the other left, once again if read in context, is something that again happens AFTER the very last trumpet sounds and he comes in all his glory, not secretly.

The rapture theory came about early in the last century, originating in the Catholic church. Not sure if it's taught in the catholic church, but that's where it stemmed from. A young girl, early teens, had a dreams about this whole secret rapture thing. She told her mother about it, and her mother told the priest and it was assumed to be a vision of some sort. Now as I've come to see about 40-50% of Protestant christian churches teach this as doctrine.

It's quite interesting to research this topic and to really study revelations. You have to read and study it from the point of view of someone 2000 years ago or so.Terms, descriptions, etc are all based on the knowledge, culture, technology(or lack of) and understanding of those times.

There really is so much, a concordance is good to use, as it will help explain the different meanings. And the bible version you use will really affect the way things are worded and portrayed.

Ok, babbling again, I love discussions like this and being able to see people's points of view.

ETA: pardon the spelling mistakes, I type really fast, but think faster than I type, hee hee


This is fascinating! I have not looked in my Bible yet since I honestly am a bit perplexed by Revelation and still am learning the basics. (still in Matthew...reading slowly comparing three translations)

Michelle

This has got to be one of my favorite subjects: history and theology. I love looking at things from a historical and scientific point of view, to know what the truth is vs. what i'm being told is the truth, if that makes sense.

I'll have to take some time here at the office today and gather some links/info to share. I don't want to push anything on anyone, but offer up what I have found out. It's always good to share knowledge.

My mother once had joined a christian church that turned out to be a cult. It seriously shook her faith, and ever since then she has believed and instilled in her family to always read, research and look into what your pastor/priest/etc is teaching instead of accepting whatever they say as truth. Make sure it is biblically sound. :)

Not that they are all bad, or purposefully misleading their congregation, but it's better to make sure.

There will be no secret rapture. This is a great topic to study! Sweetladyaz had some great points.

I do believe that the Rapture doctrine will lead many Christians to their own demise. And I do believe the second coming of Christ is very near. Christians will be here thru the tribulation, but it won't neccesarily last 7 years.

Here is a great article:

The Secret Rapture (http://hc.adventist.org/seminar/rapture.htm)

Those who keep the commandments of God and believe in Him will have the Seal of God. Those who do not will have the mark of the Beast.

There are some WONDERFUL videos that you can watch online for free about this subject. The second one is on the rapture. The whole series is about prophecy and Revelation. Fascinating and some of my personal favorites. These were taped in March of this year, but are, of course, still relevent since this stuff does not change. :)
Here's the link:
The Prophecy Code (http://www.prophecycode.org/meeting-list.asp)

Hey, all you who know way more about the OT and NT than I do. (which is most of you!)

Where can I find verses in the OT that have supposed to have been fullfilled either by now or by Jesus in the NT?

Hope that made sense.

Michelle

Michelle, take a look at this page...it has things predicted in the OT and then fulfilled in the NT..Used to have a great chart but I don't know where it is just now...

http://www.bprc.org/topics/fulfill.html

Michelle, take a look at this page...it has things predicted in the OT and then fulfilled in the NT..Used to have a great chart but I don't know where it is just now...

http://www.bprc.org/topics/fulfill.html
Thanks!!!

BTW, your sig pic is still my favorite one here. Makes me smile each time I see it.

Michelle

My understanding of the Bible is that the tribulation occurs, Jesus returns and takes His followers to Heaven with Him, and everyone else dies. I have personally found no evidence of a secret rapture. In fact I would agree with those who say it is intended to give people a false sense of security thinking they will get a second chance.

I recently read a book that explained all this fairly clearly, at least imo. I would recommend it to anyone who is searching.

"7 Mysteries Solved" by Howard Peth