I have gotten to the point with ds that I don't even know where to start. He is 5 so I'm sure some of his issues are from the fact that he's 5. I know he's trying to test his limits with me, but I don't know how to gently and effectively teach him what behavior is not ok.
He has gotten very fresh and whiny and it's even in public and very embarassing. Today is the last straw. He asked me to read him a new instruction manual that he got at t-ball last night so I had him sit with me on the floor. As I was reading to him Dillon came over to listen and Nicky threw a fit because he didn't want him looking at his book. I got so Ticked off by his whiny behavior I took his book and ripped it right in half. (I know, I know, not the most effective parenting techniquie :rolleyes: ) So then he was running around looking for my stuff to rip and when I told him to stop he told me it was none of my buisness and he could rip my stuff if he wanted until I gave him back his book. :vent: He is now in his room and I am just shaking I'm so mad. This is just one of many examples of his behavior over the last month or so.
DH is absolutely NO help. As I've mentioned in previous posts, dh is so passive and does absolutely NOTHING to help me in disciplining these children. I'm so frustrated I want to punch him in the face :vent: (yes I know another bad me example) but that's how I feel. I am so sick of these children whining and not respecting me and getting no backup from DH.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I'm supposed to start making any changes. Please...

No advice sweetie.. but I'd be ticked off if you ripped my book too. :( It sounds like maybe you need a break - do you get them very often? Even if it's just going somewhere for a cup of coffee or tea and flipping through a magazine? My kids are still little - and although we've definitely got our moments, they're small enough that I can pick them up and remove them from a situation or hold them, so I've never had to deal with a 5 year old... I hope someone has some helpful advice, but I wanted you to know I'll be thinking of you Charly. :heart:

Thanks Korwynne
A break, what's that? If you mean going to the dentist or sitting in class for 3 hours, then yeah I get plenty of breaks :rolleyes:

I am stressed out but this behavior is what's stressing me. It needs to stop. I am trying really hard to be a gentle parent but I really don't think I can do it. Old habbits are hard to break and I keep reverting back to how my parents did it and that's not ok with me.

I understand that totally.. and my preggie brain can't formulate thoughts well, so you'll have to bear with me :) My thought is that when I'm feeling overwhelmed and stressed out, if I can remove myself from the situation for awhile and just chill out, I can look at the situation differently once I'm back. It's very very difficult (at least for me) to figure out what to do and how to change things if I'm in the middle of it still, kwim?

Reguardless, you've got all the happy vibes I can send you :heart:

I feel your pain, mama. My son is 4 and is getting back into the whining tantrums that he had when he was 2 1/2. Ugh. What I would have done in your situation would be to drop the book on the floor, say "I'm not reading over whining" and leave the room. I cannot stand to be shouting over their shouts.

Maybe today you could sit down with him and apologize for ripping his book and also try to see if he can help you come up with some ways to help his behavior. I have said to my son before "It is very hard for me not to yell at you when you do xyz. I will try very hard not to yell at you again, but I need you to help me think of ways to help you not do do xyz." It doesn't "work" like a magic trick or anything, but it does help a bit. Maybe you could come up with some sort of chart or list of his top three inappropriate behaviors (or maybe just start with one if it's whining!) and what the consequences will be. If it's in writing, maybe that will help your husband help you as well.

I agree that you probably need a break. I know it's so hard to get one sometimes, but do you have someone who could watch them for an hour or two so you could go get your nails done, have a cup of coffee, take a nap, take a bath? Even if your husband works late, he could take over "listening duty" if the boys are in bed and maybe you could go out then for an hour, just for a drive if you find that relaxing or to read a book in the tub with earplugs in. ;)

Good luck...once you get past the baby stuff, it really does get harder, huh? I'm figuring that out daily!

If he is whining when you are trying to read to him, maybe you could tell him that you aren't going to continue reading to him when he is acting like that, and get up and walk away? Tell him when he is ready to use his nice voice, then maybe you can read to him again?

We do corner time outs (a minute for every year old they are) for misbehaving here (when a natural consequence isn't available or deosn't apply). They are warned first, but if the behavior doesn't stop, they go. When their time is up we discuss why they were sent there, and the importance of behaving. The important thing is being consistant. If you make a warning of an impending consequence for their bad behavior, it's important to follow through every single time so they learn that what you say has meaning. That way any future warnings will be taken seriously.

Hey..I'm going to pipe in with the communication lot. It's important for you and he to communicate effectively. Try this book, "How to Talk so Kids will Listen, and How to LIsten so Kids will Talk". This will help you both improve your communication. A whiney 5 year old is extremely annoying..I know, my son Jake was one of those. But once we got going on him using his words without whining it improved slowly.

The thing to remember is change is slow and takes time. Use what you can now (walking away from the situation and taking a mommy time out helps!) and slowly take breaths and try again. Sometimes when you take a mommy time out you can calm down and re assess and tell your son how you feel. "I don't like whining so when you whine I feel like you aren't hearing me and I have to walk away until I calm down" or whatever.

Other positive discipline tips are to give those kids lots of hugs and write them little notes about how much you love them (when they can read) and give yourself some pamper time. If DH isn't going to participate in their care, you need to talk to him at some point about your expectations and what you need from him. If he can't give those things, it could be a good time to get counseling. You need his support!

Hope that helps..and best of luck. I've been where you are. Whiny kids suck!

Here is the plan.

I am whisper typing so no one hear.
Shhh…now quiet, come closer, quite near

Okay look in your phone book, find a salon or a spa.
A yarn shop, a book store, a pet store with macaw

Something you enjoy, or may want to try.
Like a pottery studio, or learning to fly!

Write the address and phone number down .
Find out if they are East or West in your town

Now call find to find out when they open and close
And what services they will provide, I suppose

Now kindly thank them and tell them good-bye
(Tell me, do you feel as sneaky as I?)

Then patiently wait, with less cares then before
Until you see your husband walk in the front door.

Smile and gently kiss him on the cheek
Let him know you’ll be gone, but it won’t be a week!

I won’t be forever, they will survive
They may be a mess, but they will be alive!

You NEED this DESERVE this,
So don’t tell me no!

Time to take care of yourself,
GO, WOMAN, GO!

Watch the show "Supernanny" mondays at 10 pm on abc or if you cant watch it buy the book it is truly a godsend at teaching effective and fast ways to combat naughty behaviors Dd is 3 and since ive been applying the knowledge Ive attained from the show and book she is soooooo much happier and in turn I too have peace of mind knowing how to properly show her what is and isnt acceptable behavior, sorry that your Dh isnt actively parenting with you I can imagine how in alot of ways your son knows he can get away with more since your dh is so passive.

As for whiney children here is what I say.
Whiney children DO NOT get to play.

They do not get paint, baseball, bubbles or jacks
And they do not get anything special for snacks.

They can practices their letters, and adding 1 2 3
Or they could just take a nap (sounds quite nice to me)

They can sit by themselves and wallow in pity
And miss all the wonderful things that are witty.

But they can not and will not join us in the fun.
If they have pent up energy, they can go for a run!

When they whining is over and they show us respect
Then they will all see, there was no neglect

And treated with kindness, with love and with care
The fun (and the family) will always be there!

I have found the more patient and loving I am, the less whiney and more cooperative they are. There sounds like some sibling rivalry going on also. My favorite parenting books are:

Hold On To Your Kids by Nuefeld and Mate (won't be available in US til next month, get from chapters.ca)
Non-Violent Communication (vital for me, helped me very much)
Loving Each One Best by Nancy Samalin (or anything by her)
Anything by Barbara Coloroso
Siblings withouth Rivalry

The Non-Violent Communication helped so much because I have a bad temper and short patience. Hold On To Your Kids helped me see the bigger picture and helped manage the day-to-day better with the end result in mind rather than immediate solutions that may damage the bigger picture.

KID COOPERATION right now and it's a great book...I'm finding it is helping with the behavior of all 3 of my boys (and most importantly, MY behavior...)

www.atriptothewoodshed.com

I've been learning alot about Grace Based Discipline. I noticed your title so thought I'd mention it - it is Christian based

http://www.aolff.org/articles.htm

Crystal is really wonderful. You can find her on the gentle christian mothers message board too for more indepth 'conversation' about how it works. We're using several of the concepts with Zoey and finding we're all much more peaceful when we do.

1-2-3 Magic... I highly reccomend that book. I wouldn't have said a thing until after a 5 minute time out. At that point, you both would have been calmer.

Watch the show "Supernanny" mondays at 10 pm on abc or if you cant watch it buy the book it is truly a godsend at teaching effective and fast ways to combat naughty behaviors Dd is 3 and since ive been applying the knowledge Ive attained from the show and book she is soooooo much happier and in turn I too have peace of mind knowing how to properly show her what is and isnt acceptable behavior, sorry that your Dh isnt actively parenting with you I can imagine how in alot of ways your son knows he can get away with more since your dh is so passive.

I think the hardest part is making yourself not react and get angry and end up yelling or tearing up something, etc. There were times when I would let myself fall into the trap and yell, but now I stay calm and don't let myself get all riled up over bad behavior.

We've been watching Supernanny and applying the techniques and my dd, who is also 5, is really showing improvement in her behavior. We do use the "naughty chair" -- basically it's timeout. When she starts to act up, I calmly tell her to stop the behavior or she will go to the naughty chair. if she continues she goes to the naughty chair and sits there for 5 minutes. She then has to apologize for her behavior after the 5 minutes are up. It really changes her attitude to sit there. And if she continues to act badly, she loses her prized possessions (in her case it's shoes, she LOVES shoes, so she has lost a couple of her favorite pairs due to bad behavior).

Emma also loves to watch Supernanny herself because she is usually amazed at the children's behavior when she watches it, so my dad records it on the DVR for her and makes her DVDs to watch of the shows, lol. Just this week she told her teacher when she grows up she wants to be Supernanny, lol.

First off, Infinite, you've totally made my day ;) Love your poetry!!

Okay, now, this is probably not going to be the most popular opinion, but I'm saying this coming from teh most loving and gentle place I can. Honey, YOU need to change your behavior before you can think about chaning HIS behavor. I know (believe me, I KNOW, I've got a very whiney 5 year old myself right now, LOL!) how difficult it is to keep your cool and stay calm and act like the grown up when your last nerve has just been trampled, but you've got to set the example. I realized not too long ago that when my kids whining increases, it was because I was whining at them! So, take care to monitor your own voice tones with them, so that you aren't modelling it for them to copy. Now, on the book ripping, (again, I'm saying this gently) it seems like there's a lack of respect going both ways in your relationship with your son, and also with you and DH (you don;t get breaks, he doesn't discipline, etc, all really boils down to the fact that he doesn't entirely respect what you do day in and day out, IMO) A family will not function well if there isn't a base of respect between all the members. Ripping your son's book is not respectful of him. It was obviously something that was important to him (which is why he didn't want his younger sibling looking at it) and you violating that by destroying the book sends a very bad signal to him. I would definitely take him aside today and sincerely apologize to him, tell him how sorry you are for disrespecting him and that you will replace the book for him.

Like another suggested, I'd read How to Talk so Your Kids Will Listen, and also I think the Sear's Disciple Book is great.

www.atriptothewoodshed.com


ICK!! Don't go here unless you want to feel sick to your stomach. :shake: :shake:

To the original poster, I agree with some of the others that it sounds like a break for you might be a good thing. I can also totally understand ripping the book. It is obviously not the right thing to do, but I have BTDT. HUGS!!! A few of my favorite discipline books are Positive Discipline from A-Z by Jane Nelsen, Any of Barbara Coloroso's books and and Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish books (Siblings without Rivalry, How to talk......)

The main thing that helps when my kids behaviour seems out of control is to spend more time with them and be more loving. It's exactly the opposite of what I feel like doing (running away shreiking) but it makes a huge difference.

www.atriptothewoodshed.com
:drop: :shake:


1-2-3 Magic works like a charm for us.

Can we perhaps edit out links and quotes with links to sites which promote spanking?

Per guidelines:
"Posts validating spanking as a viable parenting tool are not allowed as this violates our belief in nonviolence."

To the OP, I am offering up a hug to you. I think taking a small break would really be helpful. There are lots of books suggestions offered. I know it is hard to find time to read and figure out which book(s) might be the most helpful. As the simplest approach, I try to remind myself:

1. Praise/reward/give attention to good behavior. (I think most of us lack in giving positive attention to good behavior - we could kick it up a notch)
2. Ignore annoying behavior.
3. Give consequence for behavior you want to change.

We have been doing better with the whining thing. DD (4) is my biggest in this area (right now - ever changing dynamics). When she starts in that mode, I quietly, calmly tell her: I don't hear you when you whine. Then, if she continues to whine, I ignore her. She is really doing much better and almost instantly stops the whining and is able to communicate in a more effective way. We practice communication at moments that are not in the heat of the battle.

Regarding your DS doing this in public and you being embarrassed, 1) he might be doing this kind of thing more in public because he knows it bothers you more and because you might be less able to deal with it and 2) get over it. I don't mean to sound flippant when I say get over it, but I remind myself that it doesn't matter what other people think of us. How I handle the situation is most important and it doesn't matter what other people think.

A few other quick things that come to mind that have helped us....

* Make sure your DS "accidently" overhears you saying positive things about him when you are talking to someone else. Just try this once in a while.

* The level of intensity with which we acknowledge positive behavior is usually less that how we deal with bad behaviors. I think it would help to change this around a bit. Why should bad behavior get so much energy, voice volume, etc?

* Print out short parenting articles or make a written summary of parenting books yourself and place them near the toilet for some quick, short reading for DH. The Pocket Parent (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/076112182X/qid=1114099544/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-0717018-9955000?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) is a good little book to keep near toilet or wherever DH might happen to pick it up because it offers some quick, concise help in parenting. It is one of those books where you can look at table of contents or index and find various ideas for how to deal with problems. It is not meant to necessarily be read from cover to cover but used as a reference guide.

www.atriptothewoodshed.com
And after a goodbye post about not fitting in...yeah, understatement of the year there.

The op asked for GENTLE parenting help, not links to websites that advocate baby beating.

www.atriptothewoodshed.com


Thats sick.

I am not reading everyone's post cuz I am rushing out the door. I will read and reply more later. First of all good for you for reaching out, being honest and knowing you need to make some major changes.

I have struggled with gentle discipline and feel like I am on the upswing. What has helped me more than anything is reading Power Struggles by Mary Sheed Kurchinka and going to one of her workshops. What she preaches most is that it is important to CONNECT with our child so everytime I have a conflict, struggle or concern, I reallly work on staying connected to my child.

Charlie needs to know I am on his side and not out to get him. I am not going to rehash what you did and tell you what was disconnecting behaviour on your part but I bet if you start connecting you will see huge changes.

And another help for me has been Staci of former Stacinator. I don't know her user name here. But she has phone coached me and she is a miracle worker.

Good luck mama and I hope this improves for you soon.

Can we perhaps edit out links and quotes with links to sites which promote spanking?

In response to the above, I think they should be left as is so that people can be aware of what to AVOID.

I hardly think anyone here would seriously take that website as true parenting advice and the more "bad press" they get, the better.

www.atriptothewoodshed.com

I thought you left.

I am forever amazed at how many people beat their children then justify it as being done so in the name of God. Whatever makes *you* sleep at night, right? What a load.

Someone show me a passage where the Virgin trained the Baby with a switch and I will happily stfu. Until then, keep your righteous beating advice to yourself.

Hot button? Me? Yup, found it.

Katie

Can we perhaps edit out links and quotes with links to sites which promote spanking?

In response to the above, I think they should be left as is so that people can be aware of what to AVOID.

I hardly think anyone here would seriously take that website as true parenting advice and the more "bad press" they get, the better.

Well, much like parenting, we can ignore it or give a negative consequence (i.e. call out that crap for what it is). I always say if you can't ignore a behavior that is annoying, go with the consequence. Personally, I think the person deliberately posted the link to get a response - and we gave her exactly what she wanted. Oooh, I bet she feels so good. What a Godly thing to do!

As to the idea that nobody here would take that website seriously, I think you might be surprised how many people here punish with spanking. I don't think many people here advocate anything so sick us Pearls BS, but I am pretty sure it is more than just one person.

Well, much like parenting, we can ignore it or give a negative consequence (i.e. call out that crap for what it is). I always say if you can't ignore a behavior that is annoying, go with the consequence. Personally, I think the person deliberately posted the link to get a response - and we gave her exactly what she wanted. Oooh, I bet she feels so good. What a Godly thing to do!

As to the idea that nobody here would take that website seriously, I think you might be surprised how many people here punish with spanking. I don't think many people here advocate anything so sick us Pearls BS, but I am pretty sure it is more than just one person.

I agree with you there (bolded) -- I am starting to think she's a troll.

I thought you left.

I am forever amazed at how many people beat their children then justify it as being done so in the name of God. Whatever makes *you* sleep at night, right? What a load.

Someone show me a passage where the Virgin trained the Baby with a switch and I will happily stfu. Until then, keep your righteous beating advice to yourself.

Hot button? Me? Yup, found it.

Katie

:ditto:

Trip to the woodshed?!? :shake:

In your situation Charlotte? Obviously you know your behavior is affecting his, deeply. First you need to start with you. Modelling the behavior, taking those breaths, walking away, etc, etc.

In the situation you described, I'd probably have turned to my son and asked why he did not want his little brother there. I'd think to myself, that possibly, could he need some undivided attention? Sometimes this adds to issues like this, sometimes not and they just are being whiney. It happens.

I would have stopped the story and asked him. I then would have said "I have room for you both, you sit on one side, you on the other. We can read together."...if he still threw a fit, I would stop again and say "You can choose to sit here with us, or leave, but I need you to be quiet and let everyone hear the story. I know you are angry, and wanted to be alone, but we are a family and right now we need to share"....

He may walk away, and that's fine. He may come back, or not. I would also address why he was feeling like he needed more time alone with you. Is this a common way for him to act? Does he get fun, alone time with you? If not, I'd start that.

The better you can breathe and remember how YOU respond is how he is being taught to respond, the more effective you will be. Try and remember that someone is always watching you, seeing how you react, modelling themselves after you....if you scream, spank, demean, rip books, etc.....he will learn that is how to deal with things.

And we ALL lose it. I have done my share too, we ALL have. It takes work, parenting is the hardest job, and this is why. I find myself wanting to rip my hair out somedays, and take so many deep breaths you'd think I was hyperventilating. LOL. But it helps, and those things we have encouraged or caused or ignored in our kids, the "bad" ones, can be reversed with work and time.

And try to keep in mind also, that kids are people too. They have bad days, deep emotions that affect their daily behavior and attitude, etc, etc. Stages of whining, yelling, screaming, hitting, etc. can be so very aggravating. And tests us deeply. But the more we repeat over and over the way TO act, and with understanding but firmness, the better. "No, you can not hit me. I know you are angry but you can not hit people. Lets go get a snack and calm down".....or past that stage, "I am sorry you are upset, but it's not ok to hit anyone. You need to go to your room to calm down/come sit by me to calm down so you don't hit people, it's not ok"....

As for advice... I have an arsenal of books. For perspective on what's age-appropriate, I live the "Your __ Year Old" series by Ames, Ilg, and Haber.

I love Raising Your Spirited Child (Kurcinka) and Positive Discipline (Nelsen). Playful Parenting (Cohen).

The hardest thing for me was learning that what doesn't matter doesn't matter. Same for DH. Not everything has to be a battle of wills. If my kid wants 3 servings of broccoli, but won't touch his chicken, do I *really* care? If he will take a shower with me and not a bath with his brother, do I really care? If he'll go to bed willingly as long as Daddy makes it silly, and Supermans him up the stairs, is it such a PITA that Daddy can't do it? Does he absolutely have to wear shoes everywhere we go? Probably not. We save shoes for the places where his feet could get hurt or where it's required. Daddy makes bedtime a game, even when he's tired and doesn't feel like it. I supply healthy meals, and they eat well, even if they don't eat some of everything.

It's taken a lot of personal changes for us. The kids were fine. They needed us to chill out and save the big voice for the big things. Being specific about how we need them to behave differently rather than expecting them to read our minds, ignoring the whines, remembering they have limited experiences to draw from and can't know what to do. And knowing where they are developmentally, and that they are perfectly normal. Those things helped us.

It sounds like your life is very stressful for you. Whatever it takes, find a way to relax. Heck, I have a beer once a month if I can't find some other way to destress. Chamomile tea also helps if you can't escape the house. I just tell the kids I'm going on break. And I read a magazine or something. I'm right there, but they know I'm not going to move for anything other than a dire emergency.

thanks for all the understanding and imput :heart: I'm starting to feel a little better. I had a get together with a group of friends this am, that I almost didn't go to because of this episode, but I'm so glad I went. The children were up in another part of the house being supervised by a teenager so I was able to just talk and laugh and share with my friends, it was such a nice time.
There are alot of great reading suggestions here and I'm going to have to look at a few of them more closely. It's kind of funny because all of my friends today suggested I watch supernanny LOL

DH and I do need to get some kind of counseling because he's so passive I really feel like I'd be better off as a single parent instead of doing it alone because he won't help. I really have so much resentment towards him at this point it's affecting my feelings towards him in a very negative way. I am getting personal counseling, next week is my first official sit down and chat w/her time, last time it was just an intake, but I have so many issues and topics I need/want to discuss with her and I know I have to do something because my head will explode if I don't. I feel like I need a break from dh more than the kids. :shake:

Before I got many responses to this I did have a sitdown with Nicky and explained to him about his behavior and what I was going to be doing with him in regards to it and I hope that he really does understand like he says he does. I feel/felt so horrible about ripping his book, I mean really, what am I 3?! I did promise to get him another one. He is so sweet too, he said see mommy you didn't rip it that bad, I can still read it with you until we get a new one. He was just trying to make me feel better.

Thanks again for all your kind words and advice.

The thing that has helped dh and I the most I think is to remember not to escalate the situation. I was a mother who responded exactly as you did 4 years ago, but through a lot of reading (and medication for my thyroid condition), things are much better. I can't think of one book that helped in particular, but forcing myself to respond appropriately has helped tremendously.
Also, make sure you apologize for ripping his book, as its helpful for kids to learn how to handle their own misbehavior by seeing how mommy does.

www.atriptothewoodshed.com

?????

Katie you rock! Will you come to my birthday party?

A quote from the triptothewoodshed site:
(screaming toddlers) "What" it was that she was screaming about is really not all that important. The point is that she should stop crying when you tell her to stop crying. That's just plain ol' obedience. After she's learned that, then you can take care of any other problem.
Now *that's* parenting with heart for ya.

www.atriptothewoodshed.com
I'm sorry,but that is just looking for trouble.

checking a pm and it was in reference to this so The OP was asking for information or help and I posted what helped for me... That is all. I am not a troll or looking for trouble. I know of a couple of other amity mama's that have used her suggestions on that site as well... One of these amity mama's have posted over a thousand times here and she is well known. So it isnt just me

That's too bad, Ginger. The less who use those abusive means, the better. :shake:

Ginger - In all fairness, there are a few things on almost any site that we could pick and choose from and use. That site said to nurse on demand, we all know that is a good plan. I do believe, however, that the overwhelming sentiment from that site conflicts with the principals of AP and here at amitymama. I think most people here would agree that the punishment based parenting style found there is not something that most people here use and most of us disagree with. There may be sites other than amitymama more suited to that parenting style, yet I encourage you to stay and read what other mamas have to say. There are lots of terrific ideas on this board.

To the OP - I am reading How to talk so your children will listen right now, and I have a five year old boy too... and its working great. I think the key really is to keep your cool (the vast majority of the time, we're all human) and do what you say you will EVERY TIME. One poster said, when they do something you don't like, get up, walk away, and say you'll resume whatever (reading, etc) when they can be respectful. Also, I think its important to try to validate their feelings as much as possible. If you see your son getting frustrated because his sibling is interupting his "mama time" then you might try saying. Oh honey... it looks like you are frustrated because your brother interupted us. I know you wanted to have some alone time with mommy. Maybe when daddy gets home we'll find a few minutes to do something just you and me. Can you think of something you might like to do? .... sounds corny, I know... but something VERY similar has worked for me in the past.

GOOD LUCK!!!

I haven't read all the replies, so forgive me if I'm repeating, but have to HIGHLY recommend "Dare to Discipline" by Dr. James Dobson.
He's fantastic!
Love,
Gretchen

I totally agree with Super Nanny. Her methods have really helped us.

I found one of our problems was consistancy. We were not consistant. The naughty corner also helped. My Emmie is a high maintance kids, lol. And getting down to the kids level, doing eye contact, and being consistant has really helped.

Let us know how it goes...

Careful on Dobson. Many like him, and many don't...he advocates spanking, and for some (like me, lol) it's enough to be 100% turned off of his books and advice. I prefer someone who is commited to the same general style of discipline I have, and who offers the needed support without any mention of resorting to spanking or other physical means.

Charlotte, how *are* things going for you now? Good I hope....? :flowerkit

I was shocked that someone had the guts to put a link that suggested spanking. Actually, I read a lot of the info there, and I found it quite helpful. I mean, the woman doesn't advocate abuse. What I see too often is parents who are trying the kind approach which usually involves no real discipline, they end up emtionally abusing their kids, or acting like kids themselves, and modeling bad behavior because the kids have gotten so out of control. I witnessed a friend recently who doesn't believe in discipline, slap her son very hard. She lost it. His bahavior is so out of control now, she doesn't know what to do. I feel lost on this topic. I have let me 3 year old be disobedient, and now she is getting to that point. I'm scared. I wish I had been firm when she was two. I don't agree with everything I read at that site, but there is some valuable information there and well, isn't it okay to have a different opinion? I mean, my methods haven't worked. Maybe I need a new approach. Yes, I tried "redirecting" my disobedient toddler. Now she never obeys. What next?

I just finally had a chance to read all the posts, thanks for the bump back up :D I am feeling a bit better, I think the talk with ds worked a little, he is being more patient as am I. I was supposed to have counseling today but we are all sick so I couldn't go, now I have to try to get back in there sometime this century :rolleyes:
I have also told DH that he absolutely needs to be more of a disciplinarian around here, and he has tried but it's so hard since he doesn't really know how and I start to chuckle and the kids aren't paying any attention to him... at least it changes the mood at the time when things are going crazy :lol:

Thanks again so much for all your support :big hug:

OK - I'm going to 'out' myself as a spanker - rarely, but it IS a tool that I use for my kids. There are a lot of spanking people that I don't agree with and some that I do agree with some stuff. I'm definately one to use 'gentle discipline' where it's indicated and will use spanking in the rare occurance where it's necessary (when my daughter refused to stop unbuckling herself in the car seat, it was time for me to get through to her how serious this was. I spanked her once on the thigh - not hard or leaving any mark - and explained that she needed to obey me in this - there was NO room for negotiations. She understood after that and didn't do it again.) Just so you know where I'm coming from.

In this example, I would NOT have spanked at all, though. He was frustrated and probably just wanting some one-on-one time with mama and here was someone else butting in. Maybe there's some sibling rivalry going on - I don't know but the best thing to do is to stay calm, tell the child that the behavior is wrong then decide if the child needs to go to their room with a time out, change their attitude and sit quietly or sit by himself while you go in the other room to read to the sibling. I've found it really important to understand the 'heart' of the child and why they're acting that way. Right now my 2 year old is having a tantrum and tossing things around the room and I know that she is just really needing some mommy snuggle time so I guess it's time to get off the computer. :D

Talk to your son - find out why he's feeling this way and why he's acting this way. Try to ask him how it would be if YOU acted like that - would it be right? Role play, talk and figure out what's going on. Is he tired? Is his blood sugar low? You need to know more than just his behavior at that moment.

((HUGS)) - Kids can be so hard and what works with one doesn't work the same with another! Parenting is certainly an adventure.

Ann

WOW... made a mistake and went to that website... All I can say is, if that is gentle, what is harsh?

Sorry to be off subject.


A couple of things I'd like to share. You need to take a moment to tell your son, you were wrong. Youractions were not acceptable and you will try to do better. Your son needs to know that Mom may not always be correct but she is still Mom. What Mom says goes.

In my youth, break from the kids was not possible and I had a temper. So when my little one sent me up the wall... whinning did that for sure or bickering between the kids.
I'd lovenly hug the whinning ones and say I'm sorry your so tired. I know your tired cause your so whinny, so sweetheart you take a quick nap and we'll finish when you're rested. Of course, said child say they didn't want a nap and they were not tired. My response was "civilized humans don't act like this unless they are tired, so go to your room take a nap or starting acting civilized."

1. Many things happen. a very young child learns a big words.
2. You get a chance to get your feelings in check.
3.Your child will learn, actions have reactions.
4.And your son quickly learns that when trys to "con" you with tears you can "con" him equally well. It worked for me hope you can use some part of this for you.

Also know that this will pass, you will live though it and someday he may be your friend(in about 25yrs, it goes quickly)

God bless,

Can we perhaps edit out links and quotes with links to sites which promote spanking?

Per guidelines:
"Posts validating spanking as a viable parenting tool are not allowed as this violates our belief in nonviolence."

To the OP, I am offering up a hug to you. I think taking a small break would really be helpful. There are lots of books suggestions offered. I know it is hard to find time to read and figure out which book(s) might be the most helpful. As the simplest approach, I try to remind myself:

1. Praise/reward/give attention to good behavior. (I think most of us lack in giving positive attention to good behavior - we could kick it up a notch)
2. Ignore annoying behavior.
3. Give consequence for behavior you want to change.

We have been doing better with the whining thing. DD (4) is my biggest in this area (right now - ever changing dynamics). When she starts in that mode, I quietly, calmly tell her: I don't hear you when you whine. Then, if she continues to whine, I ignore her. She is really doing much better and almost instantly stops the whining and is able to communicate in a more effective way. We practice communication at moments that are not in the heat of the battle.

Regarding your DS doing this in public and you being embarrassed, 1) he might be doing this kind of thing more in public because he knows it bothers you more and because you might be less able to deal with it and 2) get over it. I don't mean to sound flippant when I say get over it, but I remind myself that it doesn't matter what other people think of us. How I handle the situation is most important and it doesn't matter what other people think.

A few other quick things that come to mind that have helped us....

* Make sure your DS "accidently" overhears you saying positive things about him when you are talking to someone else. Just try this once in a while.

* The level of intensity with which we acknowledge positive behavior is usually less that how we deal with bad behaviors. I think it would help to change this around a bit. Why should bad behavior get so much energy, voice volume, etc?

* Print out short parenting articles or make a written summary of parenting books yourself and place them near the toilet for some quick, short reading for DH. The Pocket Parent (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/076112182X/qid=1114099544/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-0717018-9955000?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) is a good little book to keep near toilet or wherever DH might happen to pick it up because it offers some quick, concise help in parenting. It is one of those books where you can look at table of contents or index and find various ideas for how to deal with problems. It is not meant to necessarily be read from cover to cover but used as a reference guide.


haven't read all replies yet But huge DITTO to Pinkmommy

Concentrating on the positive helped MY attitude which helped DD's & chosing consequence & FOLLOWING UP immediately helped

Wendy, it is ok to say redirection is not working, and try something else WITHOUT resorting to spanking. And yes, some people think spanking is just another discipline means, and can be used right or wrong. However some believe, and the rules of this site are, that spanking is a no-no...period. So to recommend spanking, or a phyiscal discipline type website or book goes against the rules here.

So your 3 year old is disobedient? How? Normal 2 and 3 year olds test limits....but certainly are also learning how much they can push, or should not push. Can you give me some examples, and maybe some of us here will offer up what we'd do in those cases, without spanking or seeing a need to resort to that?

Re-directing does not always work. It can though, when a child is over-tired, grumpy, needs a hug, or is trying to get attention and misbehaving. But it doesn't always work, you are right.

If my son came out and insisted on harassing his sister, I might try distraction. I might ask why he was bothering her, and suggest a different activity. Or give him some attention while still telling him, "It's not ok to bother Sarah, that aggravates her. I know you are bored, would you like to play play-doh?"....

Sometimes it doesn't work, and I have to firmly say no, not ok, if you can't control yourself, you will need to go to your room. However most 2 or 3 year olds would be over-whelmed with that type of reply, and so redirecting often works better. But again, not always....

Sometimes you need to decide how you will deal with, say, hitting. And stick to it. Give it time. A firm holding of the offenders hands and a "No, not ok to hit!" followed by re-direction often works. If not, you may need to remove said child from the situation, and past age 2, they can grasp why. Or can grasp the explanation when you tell them, "No throwing books. That hurts. No more books until you can stop"...and removing said book(s). It's hard to offer a lot of reasons and such at the younger ages. But it's never too soon to instill compassion, and an understanding of why we can't hit/bite/scream/etc. How we deal with it when they DO do these things will vary on their age, and ability to understand. Even telling a 1 year old "Ouch! No, no biting!" firmly can help them learn as they grow why things like that are not ok.

Trying to ward off situations also helps me a lot. I tend to see my kids "be naughty" when over-tired, over-whelmed, hungry, bored....and while these things can not always be prevented, I do try. And it does help. From bringing a baggie of snacks and quiet toys if I know we will be waiting someplace, or a place where sitting still is needed but said child will get bored. It helps. Making sure I warn them of changes, and not a "Ok, let's go, time to leave", helps too. I warn them 2-3 times first, reminding them that "Ok guys, only 5 more minutes and then we need to leave/time for bed" type thing....that helps me a lot too.

If lax parenting has caused problems, it's going to take time, patience and work to reverse it. But going from lax to spanking is not needed, nor good imo. It may take more time to explain and discipline w/o hitting, but it will work better in the long run imo. And with no side effects, or guilt. (o:

Speaking to another Amity mama, who is out of town, she has found 1 2 3 Magic works well. She has 4 children, 1 with severe behavioral problems, and it has made a huge difference. I can tell when I talk to her on the phone...

If I yell, "Mary,stop!" When she is running toward the street, she ignores me, or smiles, and runs toward the street anyway. This is the case most of the time. I have tried talking to her, time out, and have yelled at her out of frustration and fear. Her sister was covered in bites and bruises for about a year because no matter what we did, we couldn't get her to stop biting. She just doesn't seem to care about consequences like time out. She has recently not been biting as much because the pediatrician looked her in the eye and said, "No biting!" That was after he saw the marks she was leaving on our older daughter. I heard her telling the cat the other day, "Dr. Galatzan says no biting!" It really made an impression on her. Why doesn't she take me seriously like that? I am afraid that she is going to get hurt, or hurt someone else because she doesn't listen to me. Oh, and one more example, It takes 20-30 minutes to get her into her car seat. She is bigger than a typical 5 year old, and it really takes some cooperation to get her to sit down in the seat. I would love some suggestions. My 5 year old is very compliant. She was never like this.

www.atriptothewoodshed.com
NO, no, no, no, no, nononononononononono!!!!!!! Those women re crazy nut freaks.
Thats a baaaad link.

Shoulda read the other posts, everyone feels the same.
SIck site, sick, sick.

Wendy, ok, on the hand/street issue...I'd sit down with her, and I'd tell her that we were going for a walk/store trip, etc., and that she needed to stay with me. No running into the street, and why. We'd leave the house. She runs into the road. I'd chase her, grab her firmly by the hand, and say "Mommy said no running into the road, you need to hold my hand now"....She will likely flip out, yell, maybe even fall to the floor and refuse to walk. I'd either carry her, or if she had not fallen to the floor, so this would not result in dragging her, lol, I'd keep walking, hand in hand, firmly holding onto her. She will try to wiggle away, yell, etc. Grit your teeth, take a breath and keep going. Or stop, and tell her no, sorry, we can't go to the park until you are ready to walk safely with me. If needed, I'd go back home. It may take a few times of not going someplace to show her you are serious. You may find yourself grocery shopping late at night when dh is home when you first start this. But it will likely take a short time to sink in for her that you are serious, and that you mean business.