One last pondering before we head out to play...

I have noticed it a lot.... Out in the stores, in story hour, even at playdates. It seems so common for parents to allow their children to demand things.

"Mama, get me a drink!!" "I want waaaater!!" "Buy me that cereal!!" said in demanding tones. Maybe I notice it so much because it grates on my nerves like fingernails on a chalkboard....

We have friends that we like very much, but I cannot stand when we get together and one of the kids will come up whining "Mom, I am thirsty. Get me a drink!!!" The parent usually just gives everyone an exasperated look and jumps to get whatever was demanded.

It drives me nuts..... Whining in general drives me nuts, but I just don't understand why any parent would jump to cater to a child who uses a rude voice and no manners whatsoever. Usually the parent will roll their eyes and sort of say "What can ya do?"

I always think "Ummmmm, how about you sit tight and wait for the child to ask nicely??"

It's been easy for us in the respect that we have always expected manners from the beginning. As soon as Kaya could speak, we emphasised asking with manners, so even as she was just saying little sentences, she'd say "Dink, peees!" and "Tank-oooh!" When Nico started spending a lot of time with us at the age of 2, we made a game of it. Like our ears didn't hear a request unless the word please was included"

Do you think that so many parents allow the demanding because manners are not important? Is it just that they don't know how to teach manners? Are kids modeling behaivors they see on TV?

It just seems like I see it more and more, wherever we go. What's the deal?

hmm..I am happy to report I don't know any parents like that personally..permission and being respectful were big in my house.and still are..Eli has been having to say please for things since he started talking. He thanks me for everything at the moment..but mostly cuz he likes to say thank you!

I think some has to do with personality. My oldest is still throws a fit if she doesn't get what she wants (certain toy at store). She's not always like this, but it's frequent. She demands stuff. I tell her I will when she decides to ask nicely. My 3 year old is NOT like this. She's very polite and always says please and thank you. My only theory is the difference in personalities.

If both parents aren't on board it will be twice as hard to teach kids something. It could be that some of these parents you are talking about don't have supportive spouses (or other family members or caregivers) who don't put as much empahsis on manners. Exasperation may come from trying to get ones spouse to be consistent and seeing its effects in their child. They also may be stressed and exhausted from other things in their life and the manners thing may just be one of the things that kind of got put on the back burner. Parents can't be everything to everyone all of the time. Maybe the parents themselves are that way at home and the children are modeling the behavior. Maybe it is partly television. Maybe they are sleepy.... Who knows - there can be many contributing factors.

Also keeping in mind that some children simply have different temperments. One child may be more quiet and contemplative and another may be more boisterous and demanding. You can only push kids (people) so far into a box before they will let you know they don't fit. The game you play with your child to get her to comply with your wishes may be a source of frustration and cause a major outburst of anger with another child. Some kids voices just sound whinier than others because they have a different tonal quality. And our own childrens whining, no matter how minor or infrequent it may be, is met by ours ears with the loving compassion a parent feels for their child. It can be much harder to tolerate and cause us to notice and react more when it is someone elses child for whom we don't have that instinctual bond with.

I don't know the stories and circumstance of people I pass in the store, and while I personally may find something annoying or objectionable from MY limited viewpoint, I would not dare to assume I had even the slightest clue what is really going on with them. (not saying you are - just giving my input here).

personalities could definitely be a factor..my oldest used to throw tantrums sometimes and we'd just walk out of wherever we were leaving behind carts full of stuff when she did it. She was rough as a little one, but the payoff is at 18 she calls and asks if she can come home...:D

i have no idea, but it drives me nuts.

my friend watches a boy who is 6 a few days a week after school & he is just awful. add the fact that heis parents both work, he is shuffled btw sitters, he should be in speech & isn't well... :( just the other day he said to her " i want something sweet to eat, what do you have?" when she replied he needed lunch first, he decidid upon nothing. then a few mins later he said " i want something sweet, where is it!?" then proceeded to go thru her cupboards. obviously he has other issues, but still didn;t his mom teach him to at least be polite..oh no, wiat - she was off at court (an atty) so i guess she didn't have time.

have a good day!! we're heading out too, 70' today!!! moving a fence, raking leaves , then off to worm our horse..lol ~ :)

I know many people do not demand politeness but model it and help their children learn that way. I am not sure how effective it is. We do request respect and manners and have been told many times how amazed people are how respectful and polite our girls are. However, I will often not even notice that the please was missing because I hear "Will you get me a drink" or "may I have a drink". I do notice when I hear "get me a drink". But, I know for some people, they don't care and for others, it is a different style of teaching.

I see the same things Meeshi and it drives me bonkers! I will admit that Maya does not say Thank You always and we try and try (she will be 2 in May) but she does say please. The funny thing is that when we visit my family in Maine (which is fairly frequent) my nephew (the same age) will repeatedly bring her her little snuggie/blanket and she will always say "Oh, Tank you Tyler!" yet in CT it's a foreign phrase for the most part.
I have no patience for whining either. If Maya has a fit I will tell her that I am sorry she feels that way but I then give her the reason again why something can't be so. I think there are many parents today that are what they believe to be AP types but are actually just lazy mainstream. I see this a lot in my MOMS club.

Yeah, I totally realize that there are all sorts of variables in life that make people act in different ways.

It just seems so very, very common.

I have had so many people bring up the issues with having homeschooled kids be social, that we have made a real big push to get out and about where other kids are. It just seems like, the more kids we meet, the more I am seeing this attitude of whiney rudeness. Sure, there are a few sweet kids we meet up with, but out of the 30 or so local kids we see in our small town, only a handfull seem to be like genuinely nice, caring kids. Those are the ones we *cling* to. The ones we have over for playdates and such. The only common thread I have put together in my head is that the families all limit TV.

I'm not looking to pass judgement on particular families, I wholly realize that each circumstance in their lives affect how they act.

I have just been noticing it so much, everywhere we go, that I am wondering why it seems to be the way society is going....

Makes me glad we're headin' for the hills.... ;) Maybe this s"ocialization" is overrated. *lol*

Do you think that so many parents allow the demanding because manners are not important? Is it just that they don't know how to teach manners? Are kids modeling behaivors they see on TV?

It just seems like I see it more and more, wherever we go. What's the deal?

You are correct that if it is not taught early and consistently that children will not know any other way to communicate their needs. If they are reinforced when they whine or demand, they learn that this is the way to communicate.

Manners can be learned. The little girl I work with was very demanding when she first came and it was even more pronounced due to speech delays and the frustration she felt at not being able to communicate. We have worked very hard on manners and she is slowly learning from seeing us here at home model the behavior and also from just working and teaching her.

I do think children are increasingly disrespectful for many reasons. TV and media is one...lack of parental involvement. Parents modeling the rude behavior themselves. Parents being too busy and expecting children to be taught manners/morals by the daycare center and school etc.....but this does not work since the peer group ends up being the main model of behavior. Aguh!!

Really a complex issue. Our society also does not expect manners. You should see the reaction (and I'm sure you all have similar stories) of how people respond (especially of the older generation) when my children hold open doors, speak respectfully etc....to them. Manners should not be the "rare occasion" but rather the rule.

Mixed messages don't help......there are many of those going on in today's society especially.

Anyway, just a few thoughts.......rambling on really.

Michelle

However, I will often not even notice that the please was missing because I hear "Will you get me a drink" or "may I have a drink". I do notice when I hear "get me a drink".

It's the same way here. They have to ask nicely, not demand.

There have been times at Story Hour when I have actually seen Nico's jaw drop after she hears a youngun demand something from their parent and they get it! :eek:

I am of the "model and they will learn" mindset. Katie at 2-3 yo did not consistently say "please" and "thank you." Now she does. She did not whinily demand things, either, though. I wholeheartedly agree with Naomi: true gratitude is at the heart of manners. Her article sums up my philosophy on the subject: http://www.naomialdort.com/articles.html#manners.

How Children Learn Manners
by Naomi Aldort

Our son Yonatan came home last Christmas from the theater and related an observation. On the way from the theater to the lobby he noticed that parents were instructing the children to ask the Santa Claus for candy with a "please", and after getting the treat say "thank you". Yonatan went to the lobby and was surprised and puzzled. He found that the children indeed said "please" and "thank you", but that their parents came along and took their own treats, saying nothing.

"The parents of these parents must have told them to say ‘please’ and ‘thank you’, yet they didn’t seem to learn it." He said. "Do you think these children are also going to stop saying "thank you" when they grow up?"

What do we expect a child to learn when we tell him: "Say thank you to your friend"? Most parents believe that the child will learn to be grateful, and to express her sense of gratitude. But do children learn these things by being told to do them? How did we feel as children when told to say "thank you"? When did we really develop a sincere sense of gratitude? Did saying "thank you" before we had the feeling to match the words make us grateful? Or did we develop a sense of gratitude later on in no regard to those instructions? Is it possible that some of us feel resentful when needing to thank someone, share, or apologize, because as children we hated doing these things?

Maybe we are dealing with our inability to trust. Is it possible that gratitude is not likely to be felt by a child or at least not in the way adults feel and express it? Could it be that when childhood needs are fully satisfied, gratitude will naturally develop? Perhaps we need to allow children to observe gratitude, generosity and kindness, rather then teach these behaviors to them.

What do they learn by being told

If telling a child to say "thank you" (and other manner words and actions) does not teach her/him to authentically feel and express gratitude - what does it teach?

A few possible things:

1. The child learns that telling others what to say or do is "good manners". The content of the "talk" is practically lost, as the child is mostly aware of the fact that someone is telling her what to do.

2. A less obvious message is the one: "I cannot trust myself to know what to say or do; I should rely on adults (authority) and obey instruction" (dependency, being a follower).

3. Linked to the previous one is "I cannot know on my own what to say or do, therefore I am not good enough" (low self-esteem and feeling inadequate and incapable).

4. A similar feeling of inadequacy can spring out of self-doubt: "Why don’t I feel like saying ‘thank you’? Something must be wrong with me".

5. A child learns to be phony and even simply to lie: "I don’t really feel like saying anything, (sharing, helping...), I guess I am supposed to lie, pretend, or put on a show that does not reflect my real inner experience".

6. The child learns to hate sharing or saying "please" and "thank you", as his formative memory of doing so is that of resentment, being controlled, and being unreal. In doing something while not wanting to do it, he is learning to hate the expression of being grateful (sharing etc.) and the natural authentic development of his manners can be delayed.

Our Expectations

One aspect of manners that we hurry to teach is responding to an adult’s (disrespectful) inquiry about name and age: "Tell the woman how old you are, Johnny" is an instruction we give when we feel embarrassed for our child’s lack of responsiveness. One of my three children never responded to the probing of adults until well after he was 7. In every such interaction I was on his side, defending his need. I would say to the inquirer: "He doesn’t seem to want to talk to you" and smile, adding: "I can talk to you if you wish". In later years I found out by asking, that Lennon became interested in sharing information about himself, but wanted me to speak for him. I then started to handle those circumstances differently. I would turn to Lennon and ask: "Do you wish that I would tell Earl about you?" Sometimes he would want it, others times he wouldn’t, and I simply followed his request. Lennon now feels comfortable and confident enough to respond to most people’s questions, or - more rarely now - to say that he doesn’t want to. His choices are clearly related to the person’s authenticity. He is allergic to phony talk.

As a mother I have discovered that my child’s manners are not about me impressing anyone. My child deserves my full respect to be at the stage of awareness, confidence, and of acquisition of manners that he is. It is not easy to feel comfortable when our child doesn’t fit society’s expectations - but knowing that these very expectations don’t fit the child, helps me remember whose well-being I stand for. Maybe we are still dependent on the approval of others as we were in our childhood, when we were told to say "thank you" and did so just to please our parents. We need to build our own self-esteem, so we are less dependent on approval of our children’s ways of being for enhancing our feelings of self-worth.

Making a good impression on friends, relatives, or strangers, becomes clearly unimportant next to the welfare of my child. Yet, I can still impress these friends and relatives. What I will impress them with, is not my compliance to their standards of behavior with children. Instead I will demonstrate to them my respect to my child, and my strength in following my own heart and my child’s needs.

How then will they learn manners?

How then will a child learn social manners? Can we trust the child to develop and mature in her own time, the way we trusted her to learn to walk and to talk? Why are we in a rush to have children behave like adults before they are adults?

When lovingly and respectfully treated, children will learn manners on their own simply because they want to live happily in this society. We can ensure this development by the following three approaches:

1. To "teach" a child to be grateful, express your gratitude for her contribution to your life: "It is such a joy to spend the afternoon with you". It is how you treat your child that teaches her how to be. Telling a child what to say is not respectful. It is not the kind of manners you want her to learn. Thanking her for her help and being kind and generous toward her are really at the heart of your teaching tools.

2. We can provide examples in our interactions with others by expressing gratitude, sharing generously, and treating others kindly. Our children will assimilate what they see, hear and experience around them.

3. For your child to learn manners with pleasure, and enjoy behaving in pleasing ways, she needs to see you enjoying yourself through these expressions. She needs to see you being real, authentic, and fully present when you express gratitude and treat people kindly.

4. We can provide ample freedom and opportunity to express painful feelings. Children, like adults, can best experience kind and giving feelings when they are not preoccupied with upsetting experiences. When a child tells me "I hate my sister", I validate his feelings and accept his emotional outburst - only then he can be free to love his sister. If hurtful and angry feelings are numbed, the loving and kind ones fall asleep with them. It’s a package deal.

I find gratefulness to be a great tool for positive awareness, and the heart of manners. We can demonstrate it all through the day. I often say things like: I am so happy to have this wonderful house. I love this community. We are so lucky to live here. I am so grateful that Bach was born before me so I can enjoy his incredible music. I am amazed and thankful to be alive....have eyes, ears....and so on. Being grateful, sensitive and kind is not a lecture - but a demonstration.

Children become what they absorb around them. Be what you want them to become, and treat them the way you wish them to learn to be with others.

Maybe what we need is to develop our own manners of respect toward our children. It is not easy, but very simple: Children develop adult manners by the time they are adults.

©Copyright Naomi Aldort

This article has been adapted from Naomi's forthcoming book, Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves.

Hmm... This is a big pet peave of mine. My youngest dd knows the only way she has a chance at getting something is to say please. My oldest knows that, too, but couldn't care less. To her saying please is some form of groveling and she's "too good" for it (her words, not mine). :shake: My youngest dd will pick up on this from time to time and immitate, with poor results. My oldest gets the same results and again, couldn't care less. They are two very different people being raised in the same household (though this hasn't always been the case). An outsider watching youngest dd would be in awe of her politeness while an outsider watching my oldest would be in awe of her rudeness. And that's when the "outsiders" begin judging and wondering why we would allow her to behave so rudely.

What's my point? I don't think it's possible to know how a parent is raising their children unless you are there on a day-to-day basis observing family interactions.

Not to venture too far from topic, but I have often wondered why parents put EVERYTHING out of their child’s reach. I can understand if it is something they can get hurt on, but every book, every plant, everything. And, I have to say, it does get on my nerves when someone stops by and their child who is old enough to walk and talk, destroys one of my plant, bangs on my fish tank( I ahd a 5 year odl do this!!), or (and I had this happen) rips pages out of a hundred year old dictionary…and their parents start telling me how I should put those things higher, in MY home. I never put them up for my children, I just taught them respect for things. And they have never destroy a book or plant or animal, or anything for that matter. I usually get a lecture on how “babies don’t know not to…”. And by the way, the parents never offer to replace.

I suppose that was way off topic. My boys are usually very respectful and polite, but just like everyone else they have their moments. When they do they have to go to their room, and can come out when they are civil. That said, I have been told that I have very good children (and I do) and a very good dog (and I do), and that I just got lucky, maybe so, I have no way of gauging that. My husband likes to say it wasn’t luck, it was work, but to be honest, ti hasn’t been very difficult, so it very well could be luck!

:lol:

it does seem to be a combination of all that is mentioned above...the influence of tv, lazy parents, child temperament, etc...

personally i can attest to temperament because i have a SUPER whiney child no matter how much i work with her on it.

so i don't think its as simple as parenting all the time. i truly don't allow whining from my child, and yet she still does it. go figure. she won't get what she wants from it, and i think she knows that (makes her whine more actually, since she's frustrated) she just doesn't seem to have the willpower yet to do what needs to be done. she's 4, by the way...and this has mainly been an issue in the past year or so. although crying has always, since birth, been her communication of choice. argh.

tina
www.mommychats.com

Hahahah this reminds me of a funny story. I went to a friends house for a playdate with her two young kids (James is forever talking about when he marries Laura- her daughter *lol*)
they all went to go play outside.. well Laura comes to the back door and says "Mommy get me my jacket!" Well her mom was in the other room, I said to her "don't you know where your jacket is?" This girl looked at me like I had three heads!! *lol* My children would NEVER talk to me that way.. and if they did.. well.. they wouldn't be getting what it is they wanted. ;) This ladies children always talk to her this way.. the mom is forever saying what well mannered children I have.. how do I get them to always ask please etc?? Ummm duh.

personally i can attest to temperament because i have a SUPER whiney child no matter how much i work with her on it.

so i don't think its as simple as parenting all the time. i truly don't allow whining from my child, and yet she still does it. go figure. she won't get what she wants from it, and i think she knows that (makes her whine more actually, since she's frustrated) she just doesn't seem to have the willpower yet to do what needs to be done. she's 4, by the way...and this has mainly been an issue in the past year or so. although crying has always, since birth, been her communication of choice. argh.

tina
www.mommychats.com

I have one like this too. She doesn't get what she wants without asking politely, and without whining, but that doesn't stop her from sitting on the floor in a ball, crying over her frustration. I've noticed my youngest dd doing the same thing too. They both are frustrated that they need help, but don't want to ask politely, so they just cry. After a long while of them doing this, they might settle down and finally ask nicely for help, or they never ask for help and eventually figure it out themselves. I find it frustrating because dh and I have taught them politeness since birth and constantly model it to them. I just don't get where they get this personal pride thing from, that makes them feel embaressed when they have to ask for help. I think it makes them feel vunerable. They don't like to feel incapable of something, and that frustration usually results in them demanding help from me, probably as a way of protecting their pride. They hate it when I demand back that they have to ask politely, because now I'm making them have to humble themselves before me, and that makes them irritated. So they usually just pout and cry. Drives me batty. I am hoping it will get better with age, but who knows?

I have been thinking about this lately with Henry. He is almost 2 and he only has about 5 words that he says consistantly. He gets frustrated super easily when it comes to commmunicating because it is so hard for him. If he came up to me and said "juice!" or "water!" there is no way I could ask him to be polite. I would be so happy that he made his need known through ANY kind of language that I'd be up in a second to get it for him so he could relate using words to getting results. I am afraid, however, that this is going to make it difficult for him to learn manners-especially since please and thank you are kind of abstract ideas. At what point do I say-okay he's got the language thing-and start working on not just what words we use to ask for something, but the correct manner in which to ask for something? It's all pretty confusing to me.

Emma does this constantly...drives me batty too! I always ask her to repeat herself in a non-whiny voice and to add in please. Emma started off with great manners, but at around age 3-4...they all went out the window. I have no clue why kids do it...maybe because we do cater to them so often?

Amy,
Sometimes I just modeled the correct phrase - when Henry says "Juice!" model the nice phrase "juice, please" or "may i have some juice?" or whatever while getting it - don't wait for it to be parroted back. Daniel was slow to talk, but Nicholas wasn't and he uses please and thank you all the time. Daniel does it grudgingly (but does do it, especially when someone has done something suprisingly nice for him - like when Nico just hands him a toy to share).

I agree with Katie's statement above, as well as Lauren's. We're dealing with some low level parental disagreement: I would like the children to ask in a polite voice, DH will periodically ask for correct grammar (May I versus Can I). My elder child is 4.5. I'm not working on grammar rules. If he says, "Can I please have a glass of juice?" I'm not going to say "you need to say 'May I have a glass of juice?'" The kid didn't start talking until he was almost 3, and he has bouts of stuttering - don't make him work so hard!

And, temperament is HUGE - my two boys are very different.

Oh, and about the tv - when I was going to a Waldorf mommy and me, there were moms and teachers there who were completely media free for their children - nothing on the radio in the car, etc. And these kids still had fits. Not all of them, but it does happen. Heck - a kid wants something and can't get it - it makes them angry, and anger is a legitimate emotion! They need to express it, and do the best they can with the limited resources they have as a little child.

~amey

I also see this frequently and really think it's beyond the temperment issue and into the "I don't think it's fair to expect a 2 year old to know to say please and thank you all the time" or "I don't have time to worry about that right now - we'll deal with that when they're older'. All my kids learned one way or the other how to be polite depending on their temperment. My first was very compliant and easy to teach, #2 was terrible and I STILL cannot change my mind when I give her an answer (with her, my no needs to say no even if I change my mind about it) because the next time she'll just push more. Please and thank you are givens around here and even my little 2 year old is the most polite kid! She even thanks me after we wrestle to clean out her nose! LOL!! She'll cry while I do it but afterwards she'll thank me. :lol: Poor kid!

I think it also goes along with the idea of it's too much to expect kids to sit with the family at the dinner table, it's too much for them to stay with you when you go to the store or things like that. What you expect from your kids (and give to them too) is what you'll get back. Be polite to them, expect that back and you'll get it but it does take teaching time.

LOL - I have to laugh at my kids who see kids like you're talking about Meeshi and for them to say "There's NO way we'd be allowed to speak to you like that Mom!"

Ann

My first was very compliant and easy to teach, #2 was terrible and I STILL cannot change my mind when I give her an answer (with her, my no needs to say no even if I change my mind about it) because the next time she'll just push more.


You just described my youngest to a T. We are like Lauren and we model appropriate manners, not demand them. Ara was saying please and thank you and asking nicely between 2 - 3 years old. Simone, on the other hand, KNOWS how to use them appropriately, but choses not too. She can be VERY whiny and demanding, and sometimes orders me like I am a dog (which I point out to her). I think the difference is I don't jump to comply with her, I ask her to repeat in another way and a non whiny voice. "Come Mom" isn't appropriate when she needs me in the bathroom :shake:

You know what? I have to add something. Im going to need serious help with Chris in this field. I was so lucky with James.. while he talks back a lot now (basically 5 yo behaviour yk?) He is one of the most polite little guys I know. He always gets complimented on his manners.

Chris is a screamer, and not just any scream- a screechy scream. When he wants something this is what he does. I don't know of any other way to stop the head splitting screams BUT to give in. I know I am setting myself up for a spoiled child in the future.. but I don't know what to do! At least not until he learns how to say something other than dada, mama & hi. Oh & Dora :rolleyes: *lol*

sorry for typos- nak

sadly enough my children are that way at times. my oldest girl is 6 and i have split custody of her. she goes to her dads 1/2 the week and we have very different parenting styles. He gives her whatever she wants so that she wont cry, beg, or whatever. which leaves me to be the a$$hole about it because i wont do that. everytime we go in the store she wants something and is never interested in something used by someone else. Its liket because of the ideas her dad is instilling in her she thinks they are inferrior. Somedays I just want to just throw my hands up in the air! My 4 yrs of daughter however isnt quite like that. that may be because her father and i are still married and enjoy co-parenting. We are both the boss and keep eachother in check quite often. We have had some issues with her as he is now ovreseas in Iraq but nothing that a long time out or leaving the store didnt cure. So I am prone to saying that the difference is in personality and parenting. It definately takes stability and I think these days some people just put in on the back burner because it is easier. But the longer you wait, the harder it is to correct. I cant imagine a teenager throwing the fit that my 6yr old does now!
mommyladd :usaribbon

I think it's generally becuase parents are rude, demanding and selfish, and the kids are just learning what's modelled to them. Dh and I are constantly getting comments from people about how well-mannered our kids are, and asking how we manage to make them like that. I always say, "It's simple. We're polite to them, and they know that that's how to treat people." It's just never been an option in our house to treat others with anything but respect, and respect to me means asking nicely, saying please, thank you and excuse me.

I do really feel the need to make a comment on this:
It just seems like, the more kids we meet, the more I am seeing this attitude of whiney rudeness. Sure, there are a few sweet kids we meet up with, but out of the 30 or so local kids we see in our small town, only a handfull seem to be like genuinely nice, caring kids.


I think ytou're painting with a pretty broad brush there, Meeshi. While I agree that it's not appropriate for a child to demand things, I don't think a child who's never been modelled appropriate behaviour should be excluded from the "genuinely nice, caring kids" category. If you only allow your children to be exposed to kids exactly like them, then they'll live a pretty sheltered life. Like you said, Nico already takes notice whn other kids are rude, so she knows that's innapropriate behavior. it's not like being around those children is going to suddenly make her rude; but not letting her be around them might just make her miss out on some wonderful experiences.

I think it often has to do with lack of involvement from the parent in the developement in their childs manners. What I mean is, its takes time and effort to help a child understand what is acceptable and what is not. It also takes consistancy which takes even more time. Something I think most parents today do not see the value in. I have MOST (not all) things planned, organized and made consistant to a fault. I come across as a meanie somtimes because I dont tend to give my kids a lot of slack. But I am trying and it is getting better for all of us. Fortunately I have a husband who is my polar opposite and can offer a balance in the parent child relationship while still enforcing some of the familiar parental authority they see from me, but in a different way. And I have that authoritative role but am learning to incorporate some of the free spirited behavior dh has. What I'm getting at in all of this is it definitely takes 2 parents, and more than that they have to be involved and willing. And if there aren't 2 parents involved it doesnt mean that they're set up for failure, it just means they have to work harder kwim?

Having said all of that, I have a 5 year old and a 3 year old that will still test me on the whining and demanding, but I just try to stay consistant or else they get confused on who makes the rules. They do often times have to be reminded, but even as an adult I have to remind myself to keep my behavior in check whether it be with a salesperson or telemarketer or whoever.

I have that problem. My youngest two especially are so demanding :( Rude even. My mom just asked me yesterday when I am going to do something about their manners. We were trying to talk (my mom and I) and the kids would get right in our faces shouting "push me on the swing now please!". Honestly, I just don't know how to tackle the problem, it seems so huge :( Any advice? We do correct them and tell them it;s rud and not to interrupt and to wait and we don't give in, but they still act that way.

I think it's generally becuase parents are rude, demanding and selfish, and the kids are just learning what's modelled to them.


Ouch! But I think you may be on to something. DH and I have a lot to learn about being respectful to each other still.
Lisa

my kids display their worst behavior when Im on the phone. They think Im more vulnerable. Ive had to really become very cut and dry about it and simply cut off the conversation (tell the person I will call them back) and address them, not necessarily what they are wanting, but correct their behavior by explaining why it's impolite. Yes, They have successfully gotten me off the phone, but they definitely do not get the payoff they are after. It's slow going, but it is going kwim? Now when they DO say excuse me to get my attention, or ask me nicely for something while Im on the phone, I make sure to point out how that was the perfect way to ask and proceed to accomidate their request.

The phone thing is the number one thing we are working on right now. Second to that is stopping the brother/sister fighting-anyone have any advice on that?

both my kids have been taught to use please and thank you. but dd has a very spirited - me centered personality so it has been more of a challenge with her to use them steadily.

she is always 'I want', 'get me'. etc.... I do my best to have her use her 'nice' voice and use please and thank you. she needs a lot of reminders and at times and we have ended up with a few temper tantrums due to her being so strong willed and wanting her way. :rolleyes:

i think (and correct me if you know them irl and I'm wrong) my kids most rude behavior is interupting me when i am speaking with another person, be they adult or child.

otherwise, we don't jump when they ask for things, we don't give in, and if they interupt me I'll tell them point blank "that's rude, I am talking/listening". They get the point.

We've always expected our kids to stay with us in stores and to sit at the table when we're eating (if we eat at the table), most definitely at restaurants. It irks me to see kids not in their chairs at restaurants. I've found that our kids sit well if it's just us but if we eat out with another family that has kids, the kids all feed on each other and it's bad-but we still correct them pretty firmly and they go back into the chair.

My nearly 3yo has the strongest personality we've had here yet, and is always screaming/yelling/growling at me if he doesn't like what i've said. He also throws things and hits-different personality. I correct him and make him say xyz again nicely, or apologize and pick up whatever he threw (he doesnt' hit people, just things). He's getting it slowly. But we've always modeled "say please, say thank you, say you're welcome" and they have all 3 done it once able to speak w/o question.

In general we get compliments on our children when in public...when told we homeschool people nod and say "you can tell...homeschooled kids have such better manners than other kids!"

Regarding TV, we have it and they watch it on occasion-but during our recent move it was used more than normally in the month or so it took to pack and actually move in here. I can SO tell in the way they speak with each other-which I am correcting as I hear it. <shudder> what gets me is that most kids watch that crap w/o limits and that is what they model. Yuck. When Morgan was in PS last year (K) his behavior/manners got questionable too-but he's better now (I think...) Meg loves my kids, LOL.

And BTW, that is Meg's oldest daughter (her wild child), Alexis in her sig pic at the moment-holding her two youngest children.

It bugs me too when I see kids acting like that and the parents just do it without questioning. That said, manners are VERY important to us and we still have a child that talks to us very demandingly. She does not get what she wants when she talks like that, but it is a daily struggle. And she is almost 4. I've had people comment on it or give us looks when she acts like that (I always deal with it), but I don't care anymore. Walk a mile in another parent's shoes, yk? Personality is HUGE. My child is wonderful, but she is very persistant and very very intense. Makes for a lot of meltdowns. We are extremely picky about what she watches on t.v. too.

I can't imagine how she would act if we gave in to her every whim, kwim? :drop: :lol:

BTW, she does use please and thank you and yes ma'am ;) on her own, but not all the time.

Walk a mile in another parent's shoes, yk? Personality is HUGE. My child is wonderful, but she is very persistant and very very intense. Makes for a lot of meltdowns.


I completely agree with this! I think a lot has to do with the kids personality, how they are raised and just how they are feeling on each day.
I don't think you can make a broad comment about how all kids are rude and it is the parents fault. As posted here Mamas of several kids will have one who is more strong willed.

And Great to "see" you LeeAnne! How are those gorgeous girlies of yours?
Mindi

I don't blame the kids. They are hearing it from someplace. Whether parents, school, tv, etc. I blame the parents who speak to their kids in that manner, and don't care that their kids also speak back in that manner. Or worse are the parents who model that rude behavior, and then demand their kids speak and be otherwise. :shake:

I think it's due to a few things. Laziness. Parenting takes work and time. And by that I mean either way. I see many harsh parents who don't allow kids to be kids, or who treat them like mini-adults. On the flip side, I see ones who plain don't parent at all, and their kids run rampant and rude. I don't know if it's from laziness or from thinking they need to please their kids, thus allow it? I don't know.

Above all, I think that the behavior must be modelled. Demonstrated. And parents need to teach this sort of behavior, not simply demand it or punish for it. I also think we may be quick to judge in some cases....for the child you see who is demanding and whiney may be being taught well, but is still learning. Or perhaps is having a tired, bad day. Which we all do. It's easy to have perfect kids and be perfect when yours are having a good day, and behaving...lol.

In general we get compliments on our children when in public...when told we homeschool people nod and say "you can tell...homeschooled kids have such better manners than other kids!"

LOL....You haven't met my kids. ;)

Then again, I have had 2 comments on my kids in regards to church. LOL. The pure shock on the adults faces when told my kids did not go to church was priceless. As if only church going kids behave?! LOL.

Amy/crankypantsmama - My youngest has autism, is 4, and still only says "turkey!" when he wants, uh, turkey. LOL. But we do model, "I want turkey please!" when he says it, and if he yells it rudely, he doesn't get it. At first though, it was even if he yelled "turkey" we said "YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and clapped and made a HUGE deal...we wanted him to continue talking and he didn't always have control over the modulation of his voice. It wasn't his *fault* he was yelling.

Now I have also been told that autistic kids will NOT say "I'm sorry" until much, much older, like 8 or more, and that it has to be taught to them. No WAY. Jake has been saying "I soweee" since he was *two.* Spontaneously - I never said "say you're sorry, now." He just occasionally, not every time, if he does something he knows he shouldn't (for example, he threw a rock into our friend's empty hot tub) he will say it. After he threw the rock, I took his hands and looked him in the eyes and said, "Jacob, we don't throw rocks into that hot tub, it could break it." He looked at my friend and said "I soweee." Recently he had a tantrum in a restaurant where he was screeching (it is so hard to have an autistic kid in public sometimes, I'm sure everyone thought I was some horrible parent to 'let my kid scream' in a restaurant). I took him to the bathroom to calm down and explained that we can't scream in a restaurant, other people want it quiet so they can enjoy their dinner. When we came back he spontaneously told the neighboring tables, "I'm sorry." I was very proud of him!

[/QUOTE] If you only allow your children to be exposed to kids exactly like them, then they'll live a pretty sheltered life. Like you said, Nico already takes notice whn other kids are rude, so she knows that's innapropriate behavior. it's not like being around those children is going to suddenly make her rude; but not letting her be around them might just make her miss out on some wonderful experiences.[/QUOTE]



I disagree here. When Faith has had playdates with kids who are wilder and from less strict households, I find that her behavior is not up to par when she comes home. She tries out other behaviors and it's not pleasant to be around. Since I have noticed this, I told Faith, for example, you can't go to little Janie's house b/c she jumps from all the furniture and acts wild.

I've had the same little Janie at school approach me herself and say "Can Faith come over if we don't jump off all the furniture?" LOL

Oh for crying out freakin' loud. Do you *ever* shut the **** up and get off your high horse?

One last pondering before we head out to play...

I have noticed it a lot.... Out in the stores, in story hour, even at playdates. It seems so common for parents to allow their children to demand things.

"Mama, get me a drink!!" "I want waaaater!!" "Buy me that cereal!!" said in demanding tones. Maybe I notice it so much because it grates on my nerves like fingernails on a chalkboard....

We have friends that we like very much, but I cannot stand when we get together and one of the kids will come up whining "Mom, I am thirsty. Get me a drink!!!" The parent usually just gives everyone an exasperated look and jumps to get whatever was demanded.

It drives me nuts..... Whining in general drives me nuts, but I just don't understand why any parent would jump to cater to a child who uses a rude voice and no manners whatsoever. Usually the parent will roll their eyes and sort of say "What can ya do?"

I always think "Ummmmm, how about you sit tight and wait for the child to ask nicely??"

It's been easy for us in the respect that we have always expected manners from the beginning. As soon as Kaya could speak, we emphasised asking with manners, so even as she was just saying little sentences, she'd say "Dink, peees!" and "Tank-oooh!" When Nico started spending a lot of time with us at the age of 2, we made a game of it. Like our ears didn't hear a request unless the word please was included"

Do you think that so many parents allow the demanding because manners are not important? Is it just that they don't know how to teach manners? Are kids modeling behaivors they see on TV?

It just seems like I see it more and more, wherever we go. What's the deal?

Well, I see an awful lot of demanding, rude adults - which is even more difficult to take IMO.

I think part of it is that people have their own values. What one person might see as rude, another person might not. I know cultural and subcultural values come into play. When I moved to GA during college, I was surprised by some of the values there. Because I was not trained in the "yes mam" culture, I was seen as rude when I answered questions. I discovered a lot of other little things like that. I was at a birthday party a few months ago and the mother of the birthday boy gave a little speech before we left - something like thank you for the gifts and that she won't be sending thank you cards out. At first I felt - well, judgemental - about the whole thing. I thought about it more. She is a single mother working full time. Maybe she wasn't raised in a family where written thank-you's were given much value. Maybe she is overwhelmed. ???

I also don't think just *saying* please and thank you are enough. I see a lot of kids who just tack these phrases on - as if you can say whatever you want if you add please to it. :rolleyes: For me, it is much more important that my children learn the values/feelings/reasons behind it all. Back to my friend who gave a thank you speech in lieu of a personal handwritten note... At the party, her son seemed truly pleased with the gifts. My friend remarked on the gifts as he was opening them so that each child felt happy to have given the gift they gave. I have received thank-you's in the mail that are less expressive of thanks than the verbal thank-you from my friend. I do write thank-you's and see the value in them, but my point is that we can become so programmed toward politeness that we skip the feelings and values behind the reasons for which we are being polite.

I also think some children behave differently around people or different types of people. I know that whenever my inlaws come to visit, my kids' (especially my oldest) behaviors are different (more challenging!). My inlaws live in Europe and since their visits are infrequent, that comes into play. When my kids are around other kids, that can also impact their behavior. Overall, I am very proud of my kids. I have heard how polite and well behaved DS is about 3 times in the past few weeks.

I try to remind myself that being polite is not the be all, end all of things. I do think our society tends to value things in children such as obeying and being polite but not much attention is given to kindness, creativity, faith, etc.

Whenever I read about someone who questions parenting of other children, I just pray that one day they can give birth to a Chloe. :smirk: My Chloe is a sweet, loving, bright child. She lights up a room. But boy is she a challenge. Call her spirited. Call her difficult (ssssshhhhhh, not supposed to say that). Walk a mile in my shoes, and you might understand where I am coming from. BTW, she is actually pretty well mannered, but coming out with a silly phrase like "smell my bum" is not beyond her abilities.

I have a whiner too. He whines all the time. I just tell him "I dont' listen to whining," and I've been telling him this for over a year now, and only after I tell him taht does he ask in a normal voice. Occasionally if I'm really irritated about it we have "practice" sessions and I'll have him practice asking several times. Effective? Maybe for a few hours. Then it's back to the whining.

I hate to sound snippy, but honestly the whining doesn't bother me as much as the dirty looks I get from other parents who are HEARING the whining. They might as well be whining at me "whyyyyy do you letttt himmmmm dooooo that??" In addition to trying to teach him that whining hurts my ears, I try to teach him that staring at others hurts their feelings. Both are rude behaviors.

At the grocery store my oldest (8) greets the cashier with a friendly clearly audible "Good morning!" and she ignores him! When I walk over she greets me first with a "Good morning!"

My homeschooled children (1, 5, 7, and 8) behave most of the time but sometimes they do not and I cringe to think of the judgmental mothers who think I am not instilling manners in my children just because they saw a single act of bad manners! LOL!

Honestly, Meeshi? I think that many families have moved away from having those expectations of children. A lot of the families I know have a "let kids be kids" attitude and are less strict with their behavior expectations. They treat it with humor rather than firm discipline. While I model good manners and usually do ask my children to rephrase their words when they are expressing their thoughts and feelings in less socially desirable ways, they do their fair share of whining, yelling and demanding. I think it will work itself out and they will not be selfish demanding adults. They have good role models and right now their wants are really urgent to them. Often when we are out in public I won't publicly reprimand my children, as well. I will do it aside or later. My verbal children are 4 and 3 (today, HB Erin). I am much less strict that my mother was. I am trying to avoid creating anxiety issues in my children (that I believe I partially have from trying to be perfect for my mother). People who take care of my children always comment later how wonderful they are to be around and how polite they are. What I model to them does sink in.

One more thought, children are naturally ego-centered. I don't necessarily think it is something you need to train out of them, but rather it is something they will grow out of. My 4 yo despite her strong ego-centeredness and is extremely compassionate and helpful and I see her growing more mature all the time. The just turned 3 yo is at a stage of testing her boundaries and has started throwing tantrums and running away from me in public and such. It 's a really difficult time for both of us and I have loosened the boundaries in other areas to compensate. HTH.

My homeschooled children (1, 5, 7, and 8) behave most of the time but sometimes they do not and I cringe to think of the judgmental mothers who think I am not instilling manners in my children just because they saw a single act of bad manners! LOL!

I know how you feel (except for the homeschooling part my oldest is in private school). In general my kids are very good at home but sometimes out in public they are just AWFUL!! I stopped bringing them all shopping cuz it was out of control. Christine would get Logan going and then I'd have a fight brewing between the two of them...crap it was just awful. Now they are doing much better but sometimes they do make mistakes and act out terribly and I just want to FLIP on all the people who are walking by giving a dirty look.

Btw, when my kids act up we are out the door. I don't like being in public with my kids throwing hissy fits.

Your post just rubbed me the wrong way. It seems like you are being very judgmental and making a lot of assumptions.
If you would have seen me with both of my kids alone this weekend you would have thought I had a horrible misbehaved DD and a DS that doesn't listen to me. Anneka has ASD and Evan has auditory processing issues. Evan can not filter out a lot of stimuli and Anneka is not always socially appropriate, she is just learning to talk at 4 and we does say please, you couldn't let as it's not clear. She does have fits and demands I carry her, she is also very loud with her demands. People were giving me horrible looks and when I would ask Evan to stay with me he couldn't process any of that and I would have to get to his level and make eye contact while Anneka was SCREAMING and crying because she thought I was going to put her down.
My kids do have good manners, to the best of their abilities and I do model good behavior, thankyouverymuch.
It was the looks from people that were probably thinking the same things you just posted that had me so close to tears.
It sucks being judged, that is what they were doing to me with their remarks and glares and that is what I see you doing here.


Edited to fix horrible spelling

[QUOTE=)O(Meeshi)O(]I always think "Ummmmm, how about you sit tight and wait for the child to ask nicely??"

Perfect example, because of Anneka's autistic d/o and lack of verbal skills we could be sitting there for HOURS. really. I do rephase it and ask her to tell me nicely but with her social and verbal delays she gets VERY frustrated. She does try but you are seeing these kids in social settings, that can be the most challenging and I as a mom won't sit there and demand my child act in a way she is not able to at the time.That would lead to more frustastion for all of us and more glares. Looking at Anneka she looks like normal healthy 4yo so you never know.
A very sore spot with me. Being the mom of 2 special needs children has made me a lot less judgemental I'm sure. Though I admit I do judge the people shooting me evil glances and making remarks as ignorant. My bad

Another thought I had...Meeshi, and others, you may simply have good natured children. From your posts, Meeshi, it's obvious that you do. And have not had to deal with what many other parents of strong willed/active children have.

And don't get me wrong, it's not an excuse. However it is justification for understanding, and room for "error", so to speak. I used to say the same things you say. I wondered how ANY parent could lose their temper, or become a parent of a whiner or a rude child. That was before my son was born....

I had 2 very well mannered, mild, active but not wildly so, girls. They were easy to model behavior for, never pushing my buttons much, always understanding why whining was not ok and etc. They had their moments, but were very, generally speaking, easy to parent.

My son, however, is not. It's simply his nature. He whines a lot, and we correct him. But he does do it. We are working on it. He is working on it. And quite honestly, to have a parent who does NOT have "one of these" types of children, it's a bit confusing to me to see any judging. Really. Certainly there are clear cases, and when you know a parent allows her children to behave like this, does not correct them, does not demand manners, etc., that's one thing. But I bet the majority of kids you see, in stores and elsewhere, are parented well and may simply be having a bad day. Or perhaps their parents do deal with it, but maybe in the car. Or where you did not see it occur. Who knows...

I think parenting is not only "nurture" and how we parent, but nature too, and in how our children naturally are. How their personalities are. And one can certainly improve on nature with proper nurture, or vice versa. But don't assume it's all nurture. That is far, far from true. And with children your childrens ages, Meeshi, you quite honestly don't have too many years to draw on and judge from. Truly.

Oh for crying out freakin' loud. Do you *ever* shut the **** up and get off your high horse?


EGADS! How appropriate for a post about rudeness eh? :drop:
I'm sure if Meeshi was offensive it wasn't on purpose, it didn't sound that way anyways. I am a parent of rude kids and I wasn't offended. I think she genuinley wanted to know why.
Your post though was intended to offend. It's almost funny to see this in a post about proper behavior and manners :)
I know it's hard when you feel criticized. This post was an eye opener for me though.

You know what I, and many others, have also noticed? That these types of sweeping judgemental posts are bound to get a lot of replies. And bound to get heated. And Meeshi knows this. And yet she continues to post them, and then leave for a day or so, then come back and proclaim her shock and horror at the responses she got. LOL.

Come on now Meeshi, even those who used to agree with you are wondering why you start threads like this? Motives? Why you feel a need to make sweeping parental judgements based on one incident, and when you have one child of your own, who is very young still. It's quite interesting to me to see. Honestly. LOL.

I wonder how you will feel, and post, if you were to have 2 more children, and one ends up being strong willed and "out of control" by nature. Do you think your perfect nurturing will assure you he/she will never act out, or throw a fit, or whine now and then? I promise you otherwise. LOL.

I also think to myself how you will feel and be posting when your child is, oh, say 13 or so. LOL. THEN I want to hear you tell me she never whines or whined and you just don't get some other kids and their parents. LOL.

I also sure hope you never have bad days where you feel tired, cranky and whiney. Cause if you do, perhaps someone will be judging you and be ASSumptuous of you....or does that, those types of days, never happen to you? Only to us old haggered women? ;)

I don't know. I'm jumping in at the end of this and haven't read all the threads. I have to say that I have 2 very good natured sweetie pies and one whiney little hellion (cute hellion, but nonetheless). She is corrected every single time she acts like that (which is several times each day), but it does absolutley nothing to sway her behavior. When she does something intentionally mean (which again, is a lot) I try EVERYTHING to make her say she is sorry and see her error. Impossible. She will NOT say she is sorry for anything nor will she see the error in what she has done. She would much prefer to throw herself on the floor and have a knock down drag out than do what she is told. Period. That is Analiyse, take it or leave it. I was raised to be polite, and I raise my children to be polite, but sometimes it's just the nature of the beast ( :lol: sorry - couldn't resist. I do :heart: my little beastie very much).

:( I'm so sorry Jen. FTR, I think your kids are great. :heart:

Your post just rubbed me the wrong way. It seems like you are being very judgemental and making a lot of assumsions.
If you would have seen me with both of my kids alone this weekend you would have thought I had a horrible miss behaved DD and a DS that doesn't listen to me. Anneka has ASD and Evan has audiotory processing issues. Evan can not filter out a lot of stimuli and Anneka is not always socially appropraite, she is just learning to talk at 4 and we does say please, you couldn't let as it's not clear. She does have fits and demands I carry her, she is also very loud with her demands. People were giving me horrible looks and when I would ask Evan to stay with me he couldn't process any of that and I would have to get to his level and make eye contact while Anneka was SREAMING and crying because she thought I was going to put her down.
My kids do have good manners, to the best of their abilities and I do model good behavior, thankyouverymuch.
It was the looks from people that were probably thinking the same things you just posted that had me so close to tears.
It sucks being judged, that is what they were doing to me with their remarks and glares and that is what I see you doing here.

My pet peeve is people who are so full of themselves and think they are perfect. They drive me bonkers with their 'I'm so perfect and everyone else is horrible" posts. I even try and be nice to them since I see it as a challenge!

Maybe they should just quit judging people? Or even stop worrying about other people and worry about how to provide for their children?!?

Meg loves my kids, LOL.

And BTW, that is Meg's oldest daughter (her wild child), Alexis in her sig pic at the moment-holding her two youngest children.

I DO love her kids..they are really well mannered, very good communicators and just all around sweet boys, and yes, they are ALL boy too, IYKWIM, running, playing, pounding. I've seen Tracey in action and I gotta say, that woman is a fantastic mother. I learn a lot from her style.

Yes..my wild child finally is calming down..ain't she gorgeous?

:( I'm so sorry Jen. FTR, I think your kids are great. :heart:

Hey, you can vouch for me. When Anneka wants PUMPKIN CAAAKKKEEEE!!! there is no please or thank you involved. And she doesn't let up. Oh, I chuckled and so did Amber. Shame on us to allow such behavior! It was funny though and it was just cute to hear her finally talking even if it was loud and demanding!And thank You, my kids ARE great, yours are pretty wonderful too :heart:
Jen

My pet peeve is people who are so full of themselves and think they are perfect. They drive me bonkers with their 'I'm so perfect and everyone else is horrible" posts. I even try and be nice to them since I see it as a challenge!

Maybe they should just quit judging people? Or even stop worrying about other people and worry about how to provide for their children?!? :ditto:

My youngest has autism, is 4, and still only says "turkey!" when he wants, uh, turkey. LOL. But we do model, "I want turkey please!" when he says it, and if he yells it rudely, he doesn't get it. At first though, it was even if he yelled "turkey" we said "YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and clapped and made a HUGE deal...we wanted him to continue talking and he didn't always have control over the modulation of his voice.

i think you are on to something here. it would be a shame not to celebrate first words just because they aren't followed with please and thank you. i am reading here that a lot of kids start talking in phrases. mine all started using words and we clapped and yeeehawed with sheer delight. i don't want them thinking i'm not proud of them because they didn't do it my way soon enough. there is plenty of time to learn how to be polite with words. to demand a toddler to use please and thank you as soon as they utter their first word is a bit over the top imo. and along those same lines, every child has a different learning curve for language. i believe good manners and correct grammar take time to learn. it's a process and not all children are going to learn this process in a uniform and orderly fashion.

Lol, that was so great! It's so cool to hear her talking so clearly, I thought it was Ev at first.
I've always thought your kids were sweet, and polite. All kids have bad days. I don't have special needs children, but I'm sure it can make those bad days even harder. It makes me so mad that people were giving you dirty looks and ****. :(
Now you need to bring them over darn it! I have some pumpkin here, I'll make pumpkin bread for Anneka. ;) I have a really yummy recipe too.

Hey, you can vouch for me. When Anneka wants PUMPKIN CAAAKKKEEEE!!! there is no please or thank you involved. And she doesn't let up. Oh, I chuckled and so did Amber. Shame on us to allow such behavior! It was funny though and it was just cute to hear her finally talking even if it was loud and demanding!And thank You, my kids ARE great, yours are pretty wonderful too :heart:
Jen

Whenever I read about someone who questions parenting of other children, I just pray that one day they can give birth to a Chloe.

:lol: i wish multiples on them!

I agree with many here, on numerous points. Kids are kids are kids. No need to judge them or the parents when you don't really know them. And then, post some "pat myself on the back" thing on a message board.

:drop: WOW! must be nice to feel so superior to others...I must say reading some of these replies sure has opened my eyes to some of you "holier than thou" people :shake: You kind of people are the ones that I see in the stores as I am dealing with my special needs child who looks as normal as anyone one else and who are giving me evil looks and whispered advice. YOU are the kind of people that have me crying in my van as I am driving home exhausted from trying to keep my patience and my sanity.

Are you people so ignorant that you don't realize how tough some children are to raise...If I am such a sucky parent.....then why do I have 3 kids who are parented by the same "lazy, uninterested..." person and yet I have one child who is the model of Miss Manners and another who you would swear is little Miss Devil??

Must really be nice to be so **** perfect!

:lol: i wish multiples on them!
:lol:

yep, as a mom of mulitples and a special needs child I am sure I could learn a lot from you!

Simmer down guys. There's a big difference between a kid who can only say "turkey" and one who demands loudly and rudely for parents to run around and serve his wants. Also probably not talking about 2 yr olds here, but kids capable of proper communication. This wasn't a post about not always saying please and thank you, it was about kids who rudely order their parents around, and the parents who go along with it. Not because they are autistic or having a bad day, but because there is a purposeful lack of respect and politeness - consistently.
I don't know Meeshi like you do apparently but you can't just put words in someone's mouth.

JMO on the post anyway, that's how I read it. I think some of you are reading way into it and freaking out about things that haven't been said. maybe you feel they've been implied, I don't know. I don't see it.

As for laziness, yk, my own kids would be improved I'm sure if I wasn't such a lazy parent. It does take effort. It's not the end of the world to admit it for me.

:lol:

yep, as a mom of mulitples and a special needs child I am sure I could learn a lot from you!

My statement made me look like I am the mom of multiples. Danica is, and.. oh, nevermind. I do have a lot of reespect for Danica and so many other mamas here.
Amber, it must be CCAAKKEEE, remember? I used to have a good recipe but I forgot it. I forgot how to make all of my fave foods! :lol: An excuse not to cook!

Well I could do them as muffins and then they'd be CUPCAAKKKKEEESSSS. :lol: LMK if you want the recipe. ;)

Man, I sure am glad I have perfect and mannerly children. I also sure am glad that I am a perfect parent. THANK GOD I HOMESCHOOL too, because I would hate to see how my children would act if they weren't. :shake:

You know what would suck, though, knowing that there are people sitting around me judging me and my kids, and then going back to an internet site, talking and being judgemental of me and my perfect kids

Yeah, that would suck! ;)

Simmer down guys. There's a big difference between a kid who can only say "turkey" and one who demands loudly and rudely for parents to run around and serve his wants. Also probably not talking about 2 yr olds here, but kids capable of proper communication. This wasn't a post about not always saying please and thank you, it was about kids who rudely order their parents around, and the parents who go along with it. Not because they are autistic or having a bad day, but because there is a purposeful lack of respect and politeness - consistently.
I don't know Meeshi like you do apparently but you can't just put words in someone's mouth.

JMO on the post anyway, that's how I read it. I think some of you are reading way into it and freaking out about things that haven't been said. maybe you feel they've been implied, I don't know. I don't see it.

As for laziness, yk, my own kids would be improved I'm sure if I wasn't such a lazy parent. It does take effort. It's not the end of the world to admit it for me.

There really isn't much of a difference. Like I said, looking at my 4YO DD you would not know that she had any social or language delays. It is not visible, she looks like a perfectly normal beautiful 4yo girl! It would appear that she was rudely ordering me to pick her up. She actually looks older than 4 because she is tall. Her tantrums where horrible. She could not control them.
My beautiful sweet 6yo DS looks perfectly normal, yet he has auditory processing dysfunction. In an environment like the ones she is describing he would be too overwhelmed with stimuli to hear my words, it would "look" like a 6 year old boy was being disrespectful and not listening to his mom.
Making sweeping statements about how rude other's (never hers mind you) children are and how parents aren't teaching them manners is just plain ignorant and condescending.

Meeshi,

Maybe you need to move to the South where everyone (adults included) says Yes Ma'am and No Ma'am all the time.

The man fixing my roof is the father of my son's best friend. He called me "ma'am" every other sentence until I finally got him to call me "Mrs. Nutt-Beers". After DAYS I got him to call me Denise.

We know how to say all those magic words down here in the backwoods. We have had a lot of folks from the mid-west move here in the last 15 years. It's not that the new folks are rude or mean, but they SOUND ruder (is that a word) because their tone is different, more clipped. They also don't always require yes ma'am and no ma'am as much. My dh told our neighbor kid that he could do whatever he wanted at home, but he needed to say ma'am and sir in OUR house.

Also, my FIRST child was well-behaved, polite and gentle. We could literally take him anywhere, and he was wonderful. Then we had Maylen. Turns out Daniel's behavior had little or nothing to do with what we modeled or how we taught, because Maylen was he!! on wheels! Lord, have mercy. She wouldn't listen, she escaped from carts, carseats, arms, the house. She was closely followed by "Clyde" to her "Bonnie", aka Jackson. Try to go out with three kids, at least one of whom is sick, one of whom is getting sick and one of whom just got over sick; who are 5, 3 and 2; who just sat in the dr office for 3 hours but need a script at the pharmacy. Not a pretty sight.

If you want to understand "those" kids, my best advice is have another one. That second child will usually teach you that everything you thought you were doing "right" with the first one just meant that you were lucky to have TWO adults to ONE even-tempered, easy child. Shortly after the second one, get pg and have the third. Then you may understand.

Some days it just easier to get the ding-dang juice than to have an all-out, throw-down screaming-meemee, 45-minute tantrum before you get the "please".

Oh, and my kids are NOW very well-behaved and very polite. They grew up and out of most of that wild behavior. We are often complimented on them, and they are frequent guests in other people's homes.

And they go to public school AND watch t.v.

Simmer down guys.

Thanks Mom. Do I need to go to time out now? Or am I an adult who can reply to a post how I'd like?

:bow: THANK YOU Casmi! exactly what i was thinking too!

I am curious if these are children you see on a day to day basis or children you see passing in the isle at your local store?

My children say please and thankyou and are not prompted (most of the time) to do so. BUT there are times that we may go to the store and they get a tad cranky and ask for something, are told no and then proceed to throw a fit. What really gets on my nerves are the people that walk by and look at you like your entire family has three heads because your 3 year old is having a bad day.

These are the people I just look right back at and want so badly to ask them what the heck they are looking at. So it kinda goes both ways. There is nothing better than having someone stand there and judge you while your child is not having his most shinning moment. (and it really pisses me off LOL)

If these are children you see acting like this on a regular basis, then yes, I would agree that it isn't good to always give in to your children. If it is someone you run into out and about and you feel this way, I would hope you are not so quick to make sweeping judgements, you never know what is going on in that families day. Did the kids miss nap? Not feeling well? Even the most well behaved child can be whiny and demanding on a not so good day.

I know life was great when I had just one child. But now..there are days I would rather have my fingernails pulled off than to take my two to the store.

As for laziness, yk, my own kids would be improved I'm sure if I wasn't such a lazy parent. It does take effort. It's not the end of the world to admit it for me.

I agree. I don't know that I would label myself as a "lazy" parent though.There are times when I give in to my children pleading for something when we are out and about just to keep the peace, or even at home. Pick and choose your battles.. that's my motto.

There really isn't much of a difference. Like I said, looking at my 4YO DD you would not know that she had any social or language delays. It is not visible, she looks like a perfectly normal beautiful 4yo girl!

Then why not just answer the question, which was why do parents allow this? Perhaps you could have opened her eyes to possible reasons why this type of behavior occurs and that it may not be as it seems? Then Meeshi could have reformed her opinion of these families based on that new knowledge.

Do you really think people are going to read these posts from mamas accusing and swearing and name calling and know that their children aren't rude because they are?

If you want to prove yourselves as people with good manners and respect and stand up for your children, then do it! This is hardly effective though.
It's silly and counter productive.

(by you I mean those who answered that way, not you personally).

I just read your OP again and notice these are children you see while out and about and sometimes at playdates. Again, I have to say.. i would not be so quick to make such sweeping judgements about mama's because their kids demand a drink of water or cereal. But that's just me. :shake:

It's a shame you can't even go to the store without someone thinking they have it all figured out and having pitty on you because they think you don't. And just to clarify, that is a general you. I could give a flip less what someone thinks about my children, but when they give you that "look" I would love nothing more than to let them hold my thoughts.... but that wouldn't be the proper mommy thing to do. ;)

I have taught my children manners, and I would love to think that they used them all the time, but there are days that they just forget what's right and go with the RIGHT NOW, kwim?

deleted.

I've learned from this thread that there are many different reasons children behave in the way Meeshi described. Thank you to those of you who were able to broaden my mind. I wouldn't have guessed about some of them.

deleted. I don't want to be disrespectful.

I completely agree with this! I think a lot has to do with the kids personality, how they are raised and just how they are feeling on each day.
I don't think you can make a broad comment about how all kids are rude and it is the parents fault. As posted here Mamas of several kids will have one who is more strong willed.

And Great to "see" you LeeAnne! How are those gorgeous girlies of yours?
Mindi

Thanks Mindi! They are doing great. Melody is so sweet and such an easy baby! Whitley is very nurturing with Melody and fiercely protective. ;) It is so fun to be the mom of two! :) Thanks for asking.

This is exactly what I am talking about. If you are trying to prove yourself you are failing miserable imo. I'm not seeing a mature, respectful parent here, sorry.

Are you for real? You tell people to simmer down and you *are* being mature & respectful?

If you are trying to prove yourself -- you just did by showing that you're the pot calling the kettle black. IMNSHO, you think a little too highly of your opinion, . I hope you don't get a nose bleed from the dizzying heights of your soap box.

Are you for real? You tell people to simmer down and you *are* being mature & respectful?

If you are trying to prove yourself -- you just did by showing that you're the pot calling the kettle black. IMNSHO, you think a little too highly of your opinion, . I hope you don't get a nose bleed from the dizzying heights of your soap box.


Did you find my post rude and disprepectful? I tried not to be. I think, though, when disagreeing with someone and tryng to point out something that is not positive, that it is almost impossible to be taken easily.
Simmer down was meant to be taken lightly, all my posts were meant to smooth ruffled feathers, not create them. I hate to see people getting their feelings hurt over things that haven't even been said, kwim? Like, now my feelings are hurt and it's because my intentions were either purposely or accidently misunderstood. Had it been my intention then I'd be happy as a clam!! Trust me, I'm on no soap box. I don't feel superior to any of you, honestly. Sorry if it comes across that way.

Then why not just answer the question, which was why do parents allow this? P

I'm not the person you to whom you are directing your question but I felt the need to respond. First of all, *allowing* your child to throw a fit is not possible. You don't encourage, provoke or even say "go ahead, honey, lose your mind in the store. I'll allow that". There's no "allowing" to it. Some may say that by not responding to it in a manner THEY see fit, the parent is allowing it to take place. That's not really true, is it? What if *YOUR* way of dealing with a temper tantrum doesn't exactly work in another family's situation? Why do you think the mother *isn't* dealing with the temper tantrum? Isn't it a bit presumptious to think that everyone else can simply tell their child to stop and *poof* they magically return to the darling angel mama loves?

Also, with the way the OP posts, it's hard not to feel like you're being judged no matter what you do. What's to say the mother raised her voice? I'm sure the OP would have had something to say about that. What if the mother got down to the child's level and grabbed their hands to get their attention? I'm sure something would have been said about that. No matter what the mother would have done, if it wasn't something the OP would have done, she would have found fault in it. Many people have an instant distaste for these types of posts from the OP because of her reputation on the boards.

So tell me, what is the magical "perfect" parenting answer to handling an unruly child in public? Gosh, if you know, please consider sharing it with the rest of us.

Then why not just answer the question, which was why do parents allow this? Perhaps you could have opened her eyes to possible reasons why this type of behavior occurs and that it may not be as it seems? Then Meeshi could have reformed her opinion of these families based on that new knowledge.

Do you really think people are going to read these posts from mamas accusing and swearing and name calling and know that their children aren't rude because they are?

If you want to prove yourselves as people with good manners and respect and stand up for your children, then do it! This is hardly effective though.
It's silly and counter productive.

(by you I mean those who answered that way, not you personally).
You are asking that I explain "why" I allow my daughter to have autism?
I think my post was informative, there are many reasons other than "parent's allowing" their children to misbehave. There are a lot of factors that maybe she didn't take into consideration.
I really don't think we are on the same wave length.
The only post I see as silly and counter productive are yours and the OPs to be honest.

Jen
NOT a lazy parent

You are asking that I explain "why" I allow my daughter to have autism?
I think my post was informative, there are many reasons other than "parent's allowing" their children to misbehave. There are a lot of factors that maybe she didn't take into consideration.
I really don't think we are on the same wave length.
The only post I see as silly and counter productive are yours and the OPs to be honest.

Jen
NOT a lazy parent

BTW-i what I qouted was a post directed to me that she has now deleted. It doesn't make much sense now because she made her post go "poof" :shake:

[QUOTE=Lindy12]deleted. I don't want to be disrespectful.[/QUOTE
too late

I'm not the person you to whom you are directing your question but I felt the need to respond. First of all, *allowing* your child to throw a fit is not possible. You don't encourage, provoke or even say "go ahead, honey, lose your mind in the store. I'll allow that".....

So tell me, what is the magical "perfect" parenting answer to handling an unruly child in public? Gosh, if you know, please consider sharing it with the rest of us.

I'm not sure why you are angry with me :) I didn't ask the question. I just suggested that it be answered. I know exactly hat you are saying. Please don't put words in my mouth though, I don't have any answers. I never said I did. In fact I admitted my kids were "like that".
Lisa

You are asking that I explain "why" I allow my daughter to have autism?

Wow. Not at all. I didn't ask the question!

[QUOTE=Lindy12]deleted. I don't want to be disrespectful.[/QUOTE
too late

I think that's pretty unfair. I've tried very hard not to be rude :( I think that much at least is obvious. I don't want to get blamed for making these statements that I did not make. The question was not mine.

[QUOTE=Evan&Annekasmom]

I think that's pretty unfair. I've tried very hard not to be rude :( I think that much at least is obvious. I don't want to get blamed for making these statements that I did not make. The question was not mine.

but you're the one still here on the thread pushing the issue and repeadely askign the question, aren't you? Anyone else notice that Meeshi is conspicuously absent from the thread (and who's surprised at that, LOL?!)

OK - Ignoring all the responses and such, I agree with Meeshi that there is a lot of disrespect in kids nowadays. I see it in stores and, as others have said, I don't know the kids or the parents and what's going on in their lives but it is still a sad thing to see. If I see 10 kids, a good 5 of them are pretty rude and naughty and, honestly, I see the parents as being tired from working all day (they're dressed up at 6 PM in the supermarket) and just not wanting to deal with it. I don't think those 5 are all kids who have some legitimate 'issue'. As for people I KNOW, I know of one family who's 2 year old twins tell the mother 'f**k you' when they're not happy with what she says and she LAUGHS at that!! Ya know, THAT is just wrong! I was horrified by that and just turned and walked away and, yes, judged that mother and judged her harshly. She's also the one who got to a mutual friend's house and was screaming because a cop stopped her because the 2 year olds were climbing all over the car - not in their carseats and she got a ticket. She was yelling about how the kids don't like their seats and why would she make them sit in there if they're just going to scream the whole way!! :drop: OK - Those are kids who are totally going to give their mother hell as they grow older. I know another family who's kids kick the mother while I'm talking to her because she's not paying attention to them - and the kids are 8 and 10 and totally normal. That's another family who has some 'issues' that they need to deal with. Yes, even if I shouldn't, I take away from that "What could I do in that situation if that were my kids?" and then think that my kids wouldn't do that because they were taught to respect me and others at a young age. Believe me, we have a tough kid and she's given us a big run for our money (DH and I would joke that she was trying to be the youngest child) but disrespect is something that's not allowed here. I've had my share of dealing with screaming temper tantrums in the store where she even pulled things off of shelves but that didn't last long! I can give another number of examples but those are two that I just shake my head at and wonder.

On the other hand, I know of a number of families with kids with Aspurgers and autism and I fully understand what's going on with them and I'm going to rejoice in the small advances with them. These kids are a different story and, no, I don't know that the kids that I see on the street are not like that but I'm guessing that's not the majority but the minority.

Is it so wrong to wonder what's going on? I wonder why there's so many stupid, crazy drivers on the road and wouldn't expect to be attacked for feeling holier than thou and a wonderful perfect driver! Meeshi is just asking a legitimate question that I think many people think to themselves.

I think thee dost protest too much (I so hope I didn't butcher that! LOL!)

Ann

Well, I should have known better, eh? Sometimes defensiveness makes it hard to see what people are *really* talking about.

Needless to say, I stopped reading this thread after things got nasty. I just don't have "the fight" in me right now. We had a loooooong, wonderful day in the warm sunshine and life is feeling just too fine to bring down with old drama. Can't do it.

[QUOTE=Lindy12]

but you're the one still here on the thread pushing the issue and repeadely askign the question, aren't you? Anyone else notice that Meeshi is conspicuously absent from the thread (and who's surprised at that, LOL?!)

Isn't Meeshi posting from the library? I'm sure posted from there and went home and hasn't been back yet.

Ann

sometimes. For the most part, I do expect proper behavior and they know they are supposed to use their manners. I rarely have to remind them about that.

Before I had Jac and just had one kid, I thought other people had parenting problems. Seriously, I did. Alicia rarely did anything and we always received many compliments on her manners and how well behaved she was. She was just a very easy baby/toddler/pre-schooler. She's still a great kid, but once in awhile, my mild mannered/well behaved daughter has a day where nothing is right and there just doesn't seem to be a way to fix anything. She does get whiney and cranky and yes, it does get on my nerves.

Having Jac changed my views on other people's parenting styles and what they put up with and what they didn't. He's calmed down a lot now, but there for awhile it was crazy and there was nothing I could do about it. Just how he was. I no longer look at that mom in the same way who is in the mall with a screaming toddler banging his/her head on the floor and kicking anyone and anything in reach. Btdt and it's not that I allowed it, it just happened.

Now that I've been parenting for awhile (24 hours a day, 7 days a week) and have many experiences and exposures to all different kinds of peoples and lifestyles, I'm not as judgemental about a lot of things I once was. People's parenting skills being one of those things. I've noticed now that I'm in my 30's I'm a lot more laid back about what other people are doing. If they or their children consistently get on my nerves, I just stay away from them.

I seriously think most people do what works for them. If it works for them that their child is demanding water...well, so what? I'm not getting it for the kid, they are. They'll probably pay some sort of price for that later, but that's their business. At some point, the child will likely realize not everyone is going to be thrilled to jump at their every whim. I didn't read all the replies on this thread, but it sounds like you are more concerned with the fact that it gets on your nerves than anything else.

There are a lot of things that get on my nerves. I'm one of those people that could probably be termed "perpetually irritated about something". (Although not as much as I used to be.) I found the best way to deal with that sort of thing is to just stay away from whatever is irritating me. And yes, some people's kids irritate me. And yes, some parents irritate me with what they do. I'm sure I'm as equally irritating to those who don't live the same lifestyle as I do.

I didn't mean this as an epic or anything. I guess I'll just end it by saying if you are irritated by mismannered children, then I'd invite you to stay away from mine-for the sake of your irritation factor. Because, sometimes they are tired, cranky, frustrated, whiney or otherwise acting up and sometimes I try to understand their feelings and allow them to vent or whatever. Once in awhile, I remember kids have to pretty much go along with whatever is going on around them whether they feel like it or not. Sometimes, I remember that I get a little demanding or cranky or even whiney and someone trying to stifle that in me would likely get a bigger response. I'm not saying I always allow it, but sometimes I do. I guess that's what works for me.

Hoping that sheds insight into your "why".

n/t

[QUOTE=Lindy12]

but you're the one still here on the thread pushing the issue and repeadely askign the question, aren't you? Anyone else notice that Meeshi is conspicuously absent from the thread (and who's surprised at that, LOL?!)
But but but... I never asked the question lol!

Are y'all taking it out on me cause Meeshi left? Or do you seriously think I was "with her" on this? Go back and read my posts lol, you've got the wrong gal. I just wanted to know why you all didn't just tell her and change her mind instead of calling her names!!
I agree with many of you. I said so. It doesn't make sense to make these lump judgements about kids and their parents. It's unfair and not well thought out.

And why does Meeshi get sh$t for leaving but I get it for staying? :P

Well, I should have known better, eh? Sometimes defensiveness makes it hard to see what people are *really* talking about.

Needless to say, I stopped reading this thread after things got nasty. I just don't have "the fight" in me right now. We had a loooooong, wonderful day in the warm sunshine and life is feeling just too fine to bring down with old drama. Can't do it.

I just wanted to say my posts were not made out of *defensiveness* but in hopes you may look at a situation a little different the next time. It's hard to assume a parent is a certain way in one passing unless it is obvious like the mother protesting because her children didn't "like their carseats" I think in that case.. this parent would be the poster child for your OP.

We also had a wonderful long day outside in the beautiful 83 degree weather, I registered my son for kindie, went to the grocery store, and then we spent some time outside playing, and I also got to read a little. But it isn't going to ruin my day to take some time and clarify my post. I am sad that you think it will ruin yours to maybe anwser some of the questions that were asked of you and not attacking.

Different strokes for different folks ya know? Like the mom's that feed their kids mac and cheese and give them koolaide, and let them eat hot dogs, it might not be what YOU do, but it's what they do and it works for them. But I do have to say, lol that when i go to the store to buy mac and cheese, i have to wonder if someone is judgeing me as a parent because that is in my buggie instead of the Annie's? I really just think that is plain silly. Why waste the energy?!

I personally am not offended by your post, just trying to share my POV. I am not attacking you, nor trying to be disrespectful.

I will say though, if you had been speaking about the mom and the carseats issue, I would be right there with you as I know that is not just a bad day parent or a special needs child. That is just careless. But to feel the way you do because a child demanded ceral or water, I just can't wrap my brain around it, and that's why I shared my thoughts with you and do hope you will consider those things (if you even ready my post) the next time you see a child in the isle of a store.

Then why not just answer the question, which was why do parents allow this? Perhaps you could have opened her eyes to possible reasons why this type of behavior occurs and that it may not be as it seems? Then Meeshi could have reformed her opinion of these families based on that new knowledge.


The thing is Meeshi posts messages very similar to this one a couple times a year so I seriously doubt she is actually trying to learn from them.

You know what I, and many others, have also noticed? That these types of sweeping judgemental posts are bound to get a lot of replies. And bound to get heated. And Meeshi knows this. And yet she continues to post them, and then leave for a day or so, then come back and proclaim her shock and horror at the responses she got. LOL.

Come on now Meeshi, even those who used to agree with you are wondering why you start threads like this? Motives? Why you feel a need to make sweeping parental judgements based on one incident, and when you have one child of your own, who is very young still. It's quite interesting to me to see. Honestly. LOL.

I wonder how you will feel, and post, if you were to have 2 more children, and one ends up being strong willed and "out of control" by nature. Do you think your perfect nurturing will assure you he/she will never act out, or throw a fit, or whine now and then? I promise you otherwise. LOL.

I also think to myself how you will feel and be posting when your child is, oh, say 13 or so. LOL. THEN I want to hear you tell me she never whines or whined and you just don't get some other kids and their parents. LOL.

I also sure hope you never have bad days where you feel tired, cranky and whiney. Cause if you do, perhaps someone will be judging you and be ASSumptuous of you....or does that, those types of days, never happen to you? Only to us old haggered women? ;)
:bow:

[QUOTE=littleturtle]
But but but... I never asked the question lol!

Are y'all taking it out on me cause Meeshi left? Or do you seriously think I was "with her" on this? Go back and read my posts lol, you've got the wrong gal. I just wanted to know why you all didn't just tell her and change her mind instead of calling her names!!
I agree with many of you. I said so. It doesn't make sense to make these lump judgements about kids and their parents. It's unfair and not well thought out.

And why does Meeshi get sh$t for leaving but I get it for staying? :P

I hear ya mama! I read you loud and clear ;) It's cool that you at least will try to clarify your posts, even though you really don't have to. I didn't see them as attacking and think you were taken out of context several times.

Then why not just answer the question, which was why do parents allow this? Perhaps you could have opened her eyes to possible reasons why this type of behavior occurs and that it may not be as it seems? Then Meeshi could have reformed her opinion of these families based on that new knowledge.

Do you really think people are going to read these posts from mamas accusing and swearing and name calling and know that their children aren't rude because they are?

If you want to prove yourselves as people with good manners and respect and stand up for your children, then do it! This is hardly effective though.
It's silly and counter productive.

(by you I mean those who answered that way, not you personally).


I agree. I'm one of the one's who admitted to having a demon child who has developmental issues and is most likely misunderstood by most people. I still don't just allow her to talk to me however the he!! she wants. I understand ALL about that. I grew up with a severely autistic and MR brother who drew many comments and stares and I know first hand how hurtful that can be.

BUT - There is such an obvious Meeshi vendetta here. The fact remains, though that the OP wasn't talking about kids with disabilities or babies. I understood what she was trying to say and I think many of you would have too if it hadn't have been Meeshi that posted it. Did she mean it in an inflamatory way? Maybe, maybe (probably) not. Who knows. I am not her and neither is anyone else here. All of that said, how thought provoking and informative can you really be while hurling Sh.it???

It just seems so very, very common.

I'm not looking to pass judgement on particular families, I wholly realize that each circumstance in their lives affect how they act.


:drop: I only read a few responses...but I think Meeshi's words above were ignored.

Anyway, Meeshi, I'm with you. I refuse to answer whiny demanding Kaya and Cody....I tell them I can only hear them when they use their normal voice. This has actually caused a rutt in mine and Cameron's coparenting relationship because he answers to Cody's whining...I don't. It drives me up the wall like it does you. It's a constant battle...maybe one day they'll stop whining but I doubt it!

I am guilty in that I kept Kaya from sharing repeated playdates with a girl who was very whiny and demanding...even demanding Kaya not have any other friends but her (out of context I know).

I get aggravated at my own kiddos but I usually don't care about kids I see in public...because thats just the way the world goes these days... :shake: not to blame parents, I just blame the whole state of the world...we are all so rushed, overworked, tired, etc etc....

BUT - There is such an obvious Meeshi vendetta here. The fact remains, though that the OP wasn't talking about kids with disabilities or babies. I understood what she was trying to say and I think many of you would have too if it hadn't have been Meeshi that posted it. Did she mean it in an inflamatory way? Maybe, maybe (probably) not. Who knows. I am not her and neither is anyone else here. All of that said, how thought provoking and informative can you really be while hurling Sh.it???

:ditto:

yeah when i had one kid, she was a perfectly behaved childe and she still is. then i had lylly, lylly is a whole other story.

BUT - There is such an obvious Meeshi vendetta here. The fact remains, though that the OP wasn't talking about kids with disabilities or babies. I understood what she was trying to say and I think many of you would have too if it hadn't have been Meeshi that posted it. Did she mean it in an inflamatory way? Maybe, maybe (probably) not. Who knows. I am not her and neither is anyone else here. All of that said, how thought provoking and informative can you really be while hurling Sh.it???

I have to COMPLETELY agree here! And I think there are a few people out there Jealous b/c some people can live in...let's see, what was the quote..."LA la la land"

Do I think it's ok to pass judgement...NO! But some people need to take a good long look in the mirror.

BTW...I could give two S##ts about getting flamed or being called an A## kisser!!! Oh and if this seems to be a bit of anger coming from a poster who generally doesn't get involved...it is, some of you need to grow up!

Yes, Meeshi, you knew better. You really did. Old drama, same ol' stuff...no doubt.

And whoever said Meeshi is posting from the library and perhaps that's why she has not come back? No, she may indeed be posting from a library, but she has popped off and on a few times since starting the thread. She has even posted to other threads, lol, in the meantime, while ignoring her own started one. So it was a choice, by her, to "ignore" the fire she started.

Sometimes it is truly all about the motive, and the cause...and reason something is posted.

And Meeshi, it's too bad you stopped reading it. You could learn a lot from the women here with children who differ from your daughter. Or ones with more than one child to deal with. Or ones with difficult children. Instead you knew what this would cause, and many knew you'd come back later and make a comment about being off doing better things. Honestly, it's pretty predictible at this point. Old drama, yes.

I gotta give my chick, Denise, Props, because she called it early on.

BTW, I had a lovely day outside with my kids too. It was so lovely and I got a bunch of yard work done. My kids helped and then they played & played. They played in the woods, they rode their bikes, palyed on the swingset, jumped on the trampoline, & we played with our dogs. It was great. And guess what, this thread Didn't spoil my day. How'd that happen???

however, I teach mine to use manners, but they still throw fits and forget their manners constantly. Well, two out of three anyway. They are all so different. When they forget to say please, we usually say, "If you ask nicely, I will get it for you." We don't give them what they want until they ask in an appropriate manner. That is on a good day. Sometimes I am so tired, or the day has been so demanding, that I am on autopilot, and I don't seem to hear them being rude until someone else points it out to me. I wish I were better, but it just happens. Maybe someone in public will think that I must be rude myself, or I don't teach them manners. I just find it hard to be perfect. I try, but always find myself in these situations with the kids where I am thinking, "Oops, I shouldn't have done that." Usually it is because I didn't follow through on the consequence after my daughter misbehaved for the 1,000th time that day. I get worn out. Kids can be so exhausting, and I think that moms need to support eachother more, rather than criticize. I was in a dollar store not long ago, when a child threw a huge fit. Everyone in line starting blaming the mother and saying it was her fault loudly enough for her to hear. I felt so sorry for her. It wasn't her fault her daughter lost her cool. I kicked myself later for being silent. I should have told them to give her a break. Some people have all the answers it seems. I'm not one of them.

however, I teach mine to use manners, but they still throw fits and forget their manners constantly. Well, two out of three anyway. They are all so different. When they forget to say please, we usually say, "If you ask nicely, I will get it for you." We don't give them what they want until they ask in an appropriate manner. That is on a good day. Sometimes I am so tired, or the day has been so demanding, that I am on autopilot, and I don't seem to hear them being rude until someone else points it out to me. I wish I were better, but it just happens. Maybe someone in public will think that I must be rude myself, or I don't teach them manners. I just find it hard to be perfect. I try, but always find myself in these situations with the kids where I am thinking, "Oops, I shouldn't have done that." Usually it is because I didn't follow through on the consequence after my daughter misbehaved for the 1,000th time that day. I get worn out. Kids can be so exhausting, and I think that moms need to support eachother more, rather than criticize. I was in a dollar store not long ago, when a child threw a huge fit. Everyone in line starting blaming the mother and saying it was her fault loudly enough for her to hear. I felt so sorry for her. It wasn't her fault her daughter lost her cool. I kicked myself later for being silent. I should have told them to give her a break. Some people have all the answers it seems. I'm not one of them.

Well Put!

LOL, what's funny is how no one is ever around when