Don't attempt to read this unless you have a clear head and open heart/mind. *LOL*

This honestly bothers me about myself. Maybe I just need to grow up and mature a bit? But I thought I had, and then I get angry and agitated again which makes me so disappointed in myself. I'm falling so short of the teachings I try to follow.

This post will be hard to share with being true to getting across what I am trying to say here without offending or misrepresenting myself.

I hate to label myself at all but I think many here have a bit of a grasp on my beliefs since I have posted so much over the years. If you need a label, call me interfaith with heavy pagan and eastern beliefs who admires and gets nourishment from the teachings of Jesus as well as other gurus. (not trying to belittle Jesus, please don't take how I view him as a insult as it is not meant to be)

I also spent a good deal of time reading the Bible in the past several months. I told my husband that Jesus is one I admire so much and also believe his teachings to be good. But I don't see him as *the* God.....maybe *a* God but that does not really matter in this post anyway so I'll stop there with that line of thinking.

The problem I have that flares up every once in a while is with the Christian churches and this usually is touched off by my space being infringed upon by some boisterous/pushy person of this faith. I find myself more frustrated, mostly due to the President and his beliefs and the fact that I really loathe him and he is a continual boisterous/pushy person in my mind. That and add to it St. Patricks Day which honestly does bother me and I get tired of explaining to others (family) that I do not honor nor respect St. Patrick in any way, but we do honor our Irish heritage. (seems both are celebrated on St. Patricks day)

I don't know how to explain things. But I am just in a irritated and angry phase again and am really disappointed in myself for this. I really thought I was beyond this but sometimes I think my reading of the Bible (Jesus teachings....not all the Bible) has made my frustration with modern day Christian church even worse.

I see a very big difference between being Christ-Like and being Christian. I have met some Christians (only online to be honest) who are Christ-like but for the most part I see these two terms as not meaning the same thing and the latter seems to frustrate me.

It is hard trying to teach my children that I think Jesus was a great teacher and example of a human being but that he is not what we see in many modern day Christian churches. The two are so different to me and it frustrates me.

Due to my immaturity and admitted ignorance, I may just be taking this frustration and positioning it towards fundamentialist Christians. (thinking extreme right wing like Fallwell, Pat Robertson, Bob Jones, and the like....including local churches) I don't want to be discriminating against one religion but I really do struggle sometimes.

We do off and on attend a loca Episcopal church which I am thinking maybe we should not with my challenges and frustrations and how difficult it is to keep my children from not being taught things I disagree with but yet get them the things I want them to learn. There are not any other groups here and I am one who longs for community. Most of the professed "pagans" I have met IN REAL LIFE are really not connected with reality....they are either in it for the shock value, are mentally unstable, or are so flighty and flakey that I can't get a coherent conversation going. Forgive me for sounding like such a big jerk. Never been in a area with a Buddhist community, nor a really liberal Christian church, nor a UU organization blah blah blah......(you get the picture)

I often think I could easily be a Christ follower if it were not for the bad influence of most modern day Christian groups and churches. [sigh] That is a nice fit when it is just me reading about his teachings (love your neighbor, help the poor etc....) but put me in nearly any group or church and I get soooo angry and frustrated.


Then again, I find that I agree with secular humanism more than I'd like to and that bothers me becuase I want to belive in SOMTHING....beyond what human nature has to offer. I am so frustrated.

I'm open to comments.....hoping someone else struggles at times with the same thing who is a bit more mature than I am who can give me some guideance.

Michelle

There is a section in Ram Dass' "Cultivating Compassion" about anger. He also talks about being judged by other religions (he makes light of having been called the anti-christ upon many an occasion in his life ;) ) in the same section. Of course, right now in my lack of caffeine, head cold stuffed brain, stayed up too late last night state of being I cannot seem to type out the eloquent explanation that he gives. lol. I will come back after my head has cleared a bit and expound on what he says. In the meantime know that feelings of anger are no more 'good' or 'bad' than other feelings. Feelings are what happends when we attach our stories to situations. Begin by just noticing your feelings of anger, but giving them no more and no less attention than your other feelings. Just notice it. Oh - lookie there - I feel anger. huh. yup. ... just notice.

namaste!

There is a section in Ram Dass' "Cultivating Compassion" about anger. He also talks about being judged by other religions (he makes light of having been called the anti-christ upon many an occasion in his life ;) ) in the same section. Of course, right now in my lack of caffeine, head cold stuffed brain, stayed up too late last night state of being I cannot seem to type out the eloquent explanation that he gives. lol. I will come back after my head has cleared a bit and expound on what he says. In the meantime know that feelings of anger are no more 'good' or 'bad' than other feelings. Feelings are what happends when we attach our stories to situations. Begin by just noticing your feelings of anger, but giving them no more and no less attention than your other feelings. Just notice it. Oh - lookie there - I feel anger. huh. yup. ... just notice.

namaste!

Ooh! I look forward to reading more of your thoughts. Those you shared really were good for me. I will try to inter-library loan that book too. Please share more later on, you seem to be along my wavelength in where you are coming from.

Michelle

Oooh, I do get angry. I hate getting angry; the fact that anything has such a hold on me like that is not good. My next-door neighbors are christan fundamentalists, so this is the example I have to go by. They're very nice, sweet, helpful people - if you think exactly like them. My neighbor has absolutely no problem coming over by me (when I'm outside) and after some small talk, will then tell me how I'm going to hell if I don't accept Jesus as my savior. They will not let you in their house if you are not family or go to their church. They have absolutely no problem asking us for help, but when they see me struggling with kids and groceries or whatever, they'll just wave and run back inside. (I'm really not THAT scary looking!) I could go on and on. During the last hurricane season, they had us putting plywood up in their windows. Seems were good enough to help them and then we'll go straight to hell. :rolleyes:

So, yes, I do get quite angry. My dh has to constantly remind me that all christians are not like them. But I'll tell you, the people that I meet that talk about christianity all the time seem to be just like my neighbors.

Okay, I'm done ranting now. Thankfully, we're moving this weekend. They're probably celebrating. Better be careful what you ask for though; who knows what the people are like that are going to move in here!

I think I understand some of your frustrations. The modern Christian Church (most denominations, but not all) is not very reflective of the *actual* writings in the bible. Fundamentalist groups are the loudest in this country, as well, making it hard to find moderate/liberal churches anymore.

I personally have yet to find a religion that really calls to me. I am not one to believe in Jesus as a savior, nor do I feel him to be divine more than other humans. So I don't really feel comfortable in Christian churches, although I was raised in them. I'd love to find a group in which I could raise my children, as I really cherish my church family from when I was a child. But I cannot find a church that isn't heading the was of the fundamentalist anymore.

This has turned into a "all about me" post. Sorry about that. I hope that something I said helped you. Hope you can find somewhere that you can feel comfortable and fulfilled.

Robin,

Have you tried the Unitarian Universalists churches? We belong to one now and love it! You may find it very comfortable there.

Have you tried the Unitarian Universalists churches?
I am not of the "correct" political mind to be comfortable at our local UU.

Your personal stories are of great help!!

Please feel free to share anything that comes to mind. You never know what you may type that may really help.

It just seems like I have been getting more and more angry and pessimistic...especially since the election since that ties into my frustrations with the country, religion, my rights and the like.

I find myself sighing a lot......

Michelle

I don't have a problem with Christians as a whole, but I'm very uncomfortable around certain Christian's yes. And at times I feel a deep anger towards particular Christians regarding their beliefs and their actions. I am very intimidated and fearful of many Christians - and I find that quite sad because I have met a handful of Christians irl that were very godly people, and if more people were like them I would be drawn to Christianity. Instead I'm pushed away by the negativity and the judgements. I have past abuse issues relating to religion though, so that might have a lot to do with my anger/frustration/fear.

I'm sure the same thing is present in other dominant religions.....like if I lived in a mostly Muslim community or Jewish or (substitute Patriarchal name here) I may be talking about one of those rather than Christianity. However, Christianity is my surroundings and experiences.

I have a draw but a revulsion to it. I am drawn to the teachings I read in the Bible and this makes me want to attend a group...but every experience I have had IRL is not with Christ-like people.....but with the organized very right leaning Christian manner. Hence, my anger at the entire thing.

Then I get so disappointed with myself for my frustration and anger and trying not to teach this to my children by my own struggles.

Maybe what I am reading about Christs actual teachings in the Bible is not what Christian churches are built around now a days? Just so frustrating and maybe I just need to accept that I am and will be on my own spiritually speaking as long as we live in the rural midwest. (which will be forever *lol*)

Maybe I am being judgemental and difficult. I am willing to entertain that thought especially due to my not so good experiences with Christian churches in the past. (however I did choose for some reason to attend two that are extreme.....again no liberal offerings)

I'm just blowing hot air around now............and not making much sense.

I don't want this to be a negative thread on Christianity....I just am so frustrated at what I see. But then I read that what I see and experience is suppose to be only a very vocal *minority* within Christianity? I have a hard time buying this since it seems to be the majority around my sphere of life.

Then enters the anger again.

ugh!

Michelle

:big hug:

I just re-read this and realize it is really long. I am sorry about that, but I hope you can take the time to read it through. It comes totally from my heart.

What you are describing is sooooooooo understandable.

And exactly why I personally do not like organized religion.

I do not and would not speak for anyone else, just what I have learned along my life's journey.

I used to go to church when I was young. I loved going with my grandmother, who died when I was 10. She was exactly what I think of when I think of someone who follows Christ. Everyone loved her. She was so wonderful and loving.

As I grew older, I resented hearing the Bible being told from someone else's point of view. The Bible says that you should read it with the heart of a child, and that is very hard for many people to do, they take things out of context and twist them to suit their own agendas. Not all are like that, but I have encountered enough like that to know they are not serving God...

Jesus said that there will be many who will say they KNEW him, but he will tell them HE does not know them. There are many who pretend to be followers, but they are not. This is to confuse people so they don't know what to believe.

"Religion" is like filthy rags to God/Yahweh. Whenever I hear that someone is extremely "religious" it makes me want to run the other way.

I respect all people, and certainly don't force my views upon them. I think that we all have enough on our own plates, and don't need to tell others what to do or believe, if you want to make it a better world then I think a person has to work on themself, not anyone else. And if the way you live your own life has a positive effect on someone else's then that is great.

I tithe by giving of myself, of my own resources and time. The 10% tithing that so many often quote is being taken out of context. If you give 10% and you are mad that you have to do it, or act like it is a big burden or a chore, then that is worse than giving nothing. If you are giving in the spirit of love, you give 10% and usually more. It doesn't just mean giving MONEY. And that is something else I don't like about these big churches.

I saw some ugly things in churches. I stopped going regularly when I was 18. I would go from time to time. About 6 years ago, I had a friend who invited me to her church and I really liked and admired her. She is definitely Christ-like. We went to the church for a while, but I saw things I did not like. Then when this friend's baby died of SIDS at only a few weeks old, I saw/heard something very disturbing. I had visited my friend in their home and brought food, as many did. They did not attend church for a couple of weeks. The Sunday after the baby's funeral, the pastor's wife and my friend's supposed good friend were in charge of the nursery. (my friend's husband was usually the one in the nursery, he was great with kids.) I left my then toddler in the nursery with these two and went to Sunday school. When I came back, I looked in the window to check on him, only to see him crying on the floor and these two women gossiping. I waited a minute to see if either would pick him up. NO, they did not. So, I sent my older two down to the chapel without me, and I went in and picked up my child and sat with him in the rocking chair. They just basically said how good he was and how he just started crying when he saw me. (yeah, right) So I nurse and rock him as they continue to gossip. They were gossiping about my friend whose baby died. The "good" friend said to the minister's wife that she was over at the house, helping with some cleaning and how the house was a big mess! Then she said something that ripped my heart into pieces. Still talking to the minister's wife (like I was invisible) she said that my friend kept holding, cradling and smelling the baby's car seat cover because she said it smelled like her baby, but that she (the "good" friend) went over when my friend wasn't looking and picked it up and smelled it herself and it did not smell anything but MUSTY! I gave them both a glare and took my son and left that nursery, gathered my children and never went back. THOSE PEOPLE WERE FALSE CHRISTIANS!

What did it for me also, years ago, was seeing the Bakker's on TV, my MIL would watch them. Tammy Faye in her $1000 leather suit, with her black mascara tears running down her face, begging for money. And then when her husband takes the rap and goes to jail, what does she do? She leaves him, like she had no responsibility in everything they did.

There are "false" christians... Plenty of them.

In the scripture, over and over again - we are commanded to "love one another". In the book of John, Jesus says it many times.

Some examples in John:
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
John 15:12 - This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:17 - These things I command you, that ye love one another.
MORE:
1 John 3:11 - For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1 John 4:12 - No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

In the book of Romans, Paul talks about how we are to live. Romans 13:8 says: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

And older women are to be examples in love for younger women, to help encourage and equip them in their own path. EXAMPLES, not telling anyone else what to do. The only thing we are supposed to do is LOVE.

:)

I hope I did not go to overboard on LOVE... But it really is the most important thing. And sometimes people can be very unlovable. Usually it is the case that when someone is the most unlovable, that they need love the most.

MY DH tells younger people, what it is all about is helping other people, when you get to heaven that is what God is going to want to know about, and we will all be dead in 50 years, what difference will it make then? It is less about why are we here, as who are we here for.

I don't know if this answers what you were talking about - I hope I am making some sense.

I am very spiritual, I want to feed my soul... I don't have a "religion" and the world is my church. I feel God's presence at the ocean and in the mountains or just looking out my back door, then I ever did sitting in a "building".

Much love and hugs~

Wanda

I used to feel similarly, but now I just ignore. Part of it for me is becoming very comfortable with MY beliefs, that way it feel as bothersome when others have theirs. One book I'd really recommend reading (I recommend it all the time) is "Finding Your Religion" by Scotty McLellan.

You remind me so much of myself before I started studying to be a Witness. Part of my anger was towards Catholics because of the things that I saw and heard growing up. Now that I older, I try to be more tolerant of others and their belief system. I find that if I listen with an open mind, I see that my choices are right for me.

Someone mentioned reading the bible with the heart of a child. Children have such oopenness about them. They are willing to listen and learn, asking questions as they go along. No one seems to mind. As adults, we become hostile towards others who, for whatever reason, do not believe as we do. Such is a shame. Jesus was a great teacher. We all should strive to be more like him.

Just my .02

love and blessings
angie

If you are looking for perfection, you aren't going to find it in any Christian The beauty of Christianity, and God, is that there are so many paths or groups as there are people who are searching. I used to be frustrated by this, too. I realized I just neede to work on myself and focus. Jesus teaches to love as He loved. This is not easy, and I have many lessons to learn about perfect love. My church is a way of eaching me about perfect love, how to give and accept it. My church family also teaches me this - in the brothers and sisters I do not like, but have to love. This said, I admit to often not calling myself a Christian for two reasons: one, I do not feel worthy of the title, and because there are many who call themselves Christian, and with whom I do not want to be associated. I belong to a faith with a very looooooong history of following Christ, but it took a while to find a parish where I belonged. My politics are very different from others there, and they know where I stand. It's just another obstacle to learning to give and accept love with no conditions. hope this helps. Peace to you.

Wanda,

Are you teaching about Jesus to your children? If so, how are you and what do you do when they come home (not sure of their ages) with totally warped ideas that their fellow Christian friends are saying?

Michelle

I will look for that book "Finding Your Religion". Thank you.

I have the public library trying to find the other one suggested in this thread. (book by Ram Dass) I'll have them see if they can snag the one you mentioned also.

Michelle

Jeni and Angie,

Thank you!

Maybe I need to stop being so focused on everyone else and turn and focus on myself a bit more. I often wonder and ask myself if focusing on others is a cop out for me to not deal with my anger, doubt, seeking, searching, previous baggage etc....

I should step back into the Episcopal church I was attending. I did enjoy it. I just wish I could feel better about combining my earth based beliefs with Jesus' and his teachings. I suppose there is nothing stopping me from doing this.

Maybe I am still expecting things to be spoon fed to me like my old belief system was. Which is stupid of me because the last thing that works for me is to have others tell me what to believe....but then again maybe I am just lazy and don't want to do the sweat and toil to find my own place of comfort and peace with whatever God or Energy Force there is.

Ok....if I were to work all that out, I still have to figure out how to convey and teach my children so they are not fearful and are just good humans who do have faith but are not tied down by dogma and fear of punishment.

Ok...talking off the top of my head again

Michelle

Hi Michelle~

We have always unschooled/homeschooled and we don't hang out with people with warped views, LOL. And that is just the truth. My 20 and 16 year old know all about people like that, we talk very openly about everything. And they saw it first hand in Mississippi. We have friends of all backgrounds but we just do not have anything in common with those types of Christians. In Mississippi, we found there were different types of "homeschool" groups. And I use the term homeschool loosely in this case, because we found out the only reason they were homeschooling was so their children did not have to go to school with african-american or native-american children. We were lucky to find 2 awesome multicultural groups to participate with instead. And since moving back to New England, we have a very diverse group we are involved with. Just as we were for many years in New Hampshire when the kids were little. We have friends of all cultures and beliefs, and they are real and true and honest.

Years ago, a Catholic friend who was always very interested and open in learning about other cultures as I was gave me a book called Joshua. It is a modern day parable.

Our children have been and will continue to be raised with open hearts and open minds, we all need to celebrate our uniqueness, not make everyone the same.

In regard to teaching about Jesus, we look directly to the scriptures and do not go by anyone's opinion. We verify things ourselves. There is a lot of man-made "religious" misinformation out there.

I personally, for instance, will never know how someone can call themselves a Believer (which is what I prefer to say) or a Christian and then hate people of another race. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I have to run, but wanted to answer you, Michelle. :)

I like what Angie says, and she is so right... There is nothing wrong with us asking questions and wanting to know more.

:big hug:

P.S. I just saw what you posted about the dogma and fear of punishment.

I will try to get you some better info tomorrow, I will be gone tonight.

There are a lot of misconceptions, (including fire and brimstone) like I said before, and even concerning women giving birth. The exact same hebrew word for toil, was translated as PAIN instead for giving birth, for instance. Giving birth is not a punishment! It is a gift.

:)

I will be back in the morning.

As for dogma and fear of punishment, I suggest really researching beliefs on those subjects. A lot of times when we question, we get quick, pat answer. I think it takes a longer, more in depth look at the reasons for dogma - at least it always has been for me when things don't seem to make sense. May I recommend two books? Both really changed my prespective. One is Life After Life, about people who have had death experiences and have come back, written by a doctor who investigated. Another is The Orthodox Way, by Bishop Kallistos Ware. Yes, this is a basically about Orthodox Christian dogma. I think many might be suprised at the way Orthodoxy is very eastern - meditation and nature figure heavily in eastern Christian doctrine and practice. I could go on and on about this book. I'd even lend you mine, but it's already out!
Peace!

i havent read any of the other posts but i can totally empathize with your feelings. i have always felt the same way - about jesus being a wonderful teacher but not being the son of G-d (well nto anymore than the rest of us). it was only when i started studying judaism that i felt comfortable. it fulfilled my belief of G-d in many forms and accepted that jesus was a rockin teacher. i hope you can find peace, because i still find myself getting angry when a religion is pressed upon me. :hugs:

I can understand your frustration to a point. I was raised to be pretty open minded and to be especially tolerant of others, because many others are not tolerant of us (Jewish).

I enjoy having discussions about religion with people who are from different religious beliefs - always happy to have people come knocking on my door and happy to answer their questions.

Really, the only time I've felt super uncomfortable is when my neighbors (who moved a couple of years ago) son started proselytizing my son. It got to the point where I wouldn't let my kids go outside when their kids were.

I also find that people who are not truly comfortable in their beliefs tend to push their feelings on you more. A lot of non-observant Jews are very vocally against keeping the Torah the way we always have. They sound so sure, but I think it is from a lack of knowledge and a lack of security in who they are.

Thank you for the responses. I am coming online again hopefully tomorrow and can respond more.

I really appreciate the book suggestions too, BTW.

Michelle

Hi Michelle~

I have a few things to share - read and take from it what helps you.

I have found these interesting.

http://www.believers.org/believe/bel180.htm

http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/q0206/

http://www.zoroastrian.org/articles/God%20in%20the%20Gathas.htm

http://www.hindunet.org/alt_hindu/1995_Jun_2/msg00013.html

http://www.useekufind.com/worth.htm

http://www.crescentlife.com/spirituality/10commandments_bible&quran.htm

http://www.crescentlife.com/heal%20the%20world/when_the_innocent_are_murdered.htm

http://www.crescentlife.com/spirituality/animals_in_islam.htm

http://www.serfes.org/spiritual/october2002.htm

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Prem_Rawat

http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/peace/gumb0915.htm



Quotes I like:

God doesn't call the qualified, He qualifies the called. ~ Anon
(I read this early in my doula path, and it helped me in my learning process.)

"Most people want to serve God, but only in an advisory capacity". ~ Anon

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. ~ Unknown

Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lots of others, or strikes out against injustice, that person sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.
~ Robert F. Kennedy

The narrower the mind, the broader the statement. ~ Ted Cook

The last time we mixed politics with religion people got burned at the stake.
~ Anon.

I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you. ~ Unknown

In Germany, first they came for the communists, and I did not speak up, because I was not a communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak up because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I was a protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no-one was left to speak up.
~ Pastor Martin Niemoller (victim of the Nazis)

The nonviolent approach does not immediately change the heart of the oppressor. It first does something to the hearts and souls of those committed to it. It gives them self respect; it calls up resources of strength and courage that they did not think they had. Finally, it reaches the opponent and so stirs his conscience that reconciliation becomes a reality.
~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

It is when things go wrong, when good things do not happen, when our prayers seem to have been lost, that God is most present. We do not need the sheltering wings when things go smoothly. We are closest to God in the darkness, stumbling along blindly.
~ Madeleine L'Engle

Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin.
~ Mother Theresa

It is not how much we do, but how much love we put in the doing. It is not how much we give, but how much love we put in the giving.
~ Mother Theresa

I find that we are all such sinners that it is better to leave the judging to God.
~ Mahatma Ghandi

Truly you have formed my inmost being; you knit me in my mother's womb. I give you thanks that I am fearfully, wonderfully made; wonderful are your works.
~ Psalm 13:9

And the Lord's servants must not quarrel; instead, they must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
~ 2 Timothy 2:24

Who are the wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
~ James 3:13

Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else. Be joyful always.
~ 1 Thessalonians 5:14-16

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
~ Galatians 5:22-23

An anxious heart weighs a person down, but a kind word cheers everyone up.
~ Proverbs 12:25



:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

~Wanda

Wanda,

Those quotes are really inspiring and I am going to re-read them slowly...maybe print them and cut them separately and put in a jar and read one a day and ponder it.

I will be checking out those sites also.

I really think this is a issue that comes up over and over again for me and I need to realize that it is OK for me to not totally "fit in". I do get something from the Episcopal services I attend. I also get something from the earth based and ancestor beliefs I hold, as well are spirituality from Yoga and Buddhism, and from Jesus' life example.

I'm going to tell myself that this is all OK and stop trying to put my own self into a box, KWIM?

Sometimes I think I am my own worse obstacle. *lol*

Michelle

Those quotes (thanks Wanda) are really inspiring and I am going to re-read them slowly...maybe print them and cut them separately and put in a jar and read one a day and ponder it.

I will be checking out those sites also.

I really think this is a issue that comes up over and over again for me and I need to realize that it is OK for me to not totally "fit in". I do get something from the Episcopal services I attend. I also get something from the earth based and ancestor beliefs I hold, as well are spirituality from Yoga and Buddhism, and from Jesus' life example.

I'm going to tell myself that this is all OK and stop trying to put my own self into a box, KWIM?

Sometimes I think I am my own worse obstacle. *lol*

Michelle

Michelle,
I have only briefly read what everyone else has posted...so forgive me if I say something someone already has.

I have this quote that comes to mind. Not sure how it will make you feel, and i hope it doesn't offend:

"anger corrodes the container that holds it"


I feel that if you try to let go of the anger, you might be able to have a more clear thought when it comes to everything you are struggling with. Anger does so much bad to our bodies-physically and emotionally. I think Anger gets in our way of being able to truly see and comprehend.

As for the "warped christian" thoughts that other kids might give yours...when my children have questioned me on something that differs from my own beliefs, I just explain to them that not everyone believes the way we do. and how our beliefs differ.

Be yourself Michelle. Be comfortable and confident with who you are and how you decide to "worship" whether it be christian, pagan, or whatever. Be true to yourself and it will fall into place.

I may be way off base in my post, but that is just what I felt when I read your OP

Michelle,
I have only briefly read what everyone else has posted...so forgive me if I say something someone already has.

I have this quote that comes to mind. Not sure how it will make you feel, and i hope it doesn't offend:

"anger corrodes the container that holds it"


I feel that if you try to let go of the anger, you might be able to have a more clear thought when it comes to everything you are struggling with. Anger does so much bad to our bodies-physically and emotionally. I think Anger gets in our way of being able to truly see and comprehend.

As for the "warped christian" thoughts that other kids might give yours...when my children have questioned me on something that differs from my own beliefs, I just explain to them that not everyone believes the way we do. and how our beliefs differ.

Be yourself Michelle. Be comfortable and confident with who you are and how you decide to "worship" whether it be christian, pagan, or whatever. Be true to yourself and it will fall into place.

I may be way off base in my post, but that is just what I felt when I read your OP


Jessica,

That was advice well taken and I am really glad you posted and shared it. It did help and you are right on target with sharing it.

Thanks :)

Michelle

Wanda,

Those quotes are really inspiring and I am going to re-read them slowly...maybe print them and cut them separately and put in a jar and read one a day and ponder it.

I will be checking out those sites also.

I really think this is a issue that comes up over and over again for me and I need to realize that it is OK for me to not totally "fit in". I do get something from the Episcopal services I attend. I also get something from the earth based and ancestor beliefs I hold, as well are spirituality from Yoga and Buddhism, and from Jesus' life example.

I'm going to tell myself that this is all OK and stop trying to put my own self into a box, KWIM?

Sometimes I think I am my own worse obstacle. *lol*

Michelle


I totally understand about the feeling of not fitting in! There have been times when I really felt that way. I guess I was always trying to find my place in the world. Then things took a different turn for me and it was as if a light was turned on. And in order to get to that point I had to completely "let go" and give up control. I felt a very strong pull to attend a labor assistant (doula) workshop. (August - 2002) So I signed up and went, and the only explanation I can give is that I was finally HOME! It was like, aah, this is where I am supposed to be...

I think of Lilo - from Lilo and Stitch. That just ends up being her calling - she has to help the "experiments" to find their place in the world. So in some ways I feel like we are "experiments" and we need a LILO to help us find our place. We are each no better than the other, we are all equals, we just have a different purpose.

You have a lot on your plate! You are so very blessed, as I have mentioned before, to be a mama of 6, but that doesn't mean the job is an easy one. Anything worthwhile is never easy, but the payoffs will be big.

:)

If I can help you along your journey to find your "place in the world", don't ever hesitate to call on me. And I know the other mamas here are so warm and loving and ready to help too.

~W

Michelle,

Many people (even those who are Christians) get frustrated with the way things are in the modern church/Christianity. I know that we have talked about this but I think it is fairly common thing.

I think one of the reasons for the problems is that the US is considered a "Christian" nation and yet many people who would claim to be Christians don't really have a relationship with God that transforms their lives. A part of being a follower of Christ is allowing him to have access to our lives and allowing him to transform us.

" I see a very big difference between being Christ-Like and being Christian. I have met some Christians (only online to be honest) who are Christ-like but for the most part I see these two terms as not meaning the same thing and the latter seems to frustrate me."

I think you have it totally correct - there is a BIG difference between being Christ like and being a Christian.

"I often think I could easily be a Christ follower if it were not for the bad influence of most modern day Christian groups and churches. [sigh] That is a nice fit when it is just me reading about his teachings (love your neighbor, help the poor etc....) but put me in nearly any group or church and I get soooo angry and frustrated."

You know there is nothing wrong with you seeking out wisdom from the Bible. I do believe that there are churches out there that are trying to answer your questions but to be honest they can be difficult to come by. It is a fine line in the life of a church to put forward strong beliefs in God and the Bible but to do it in such a way as to not be overly offensive. And many churches don't even try.

I think it is natural to feel frustration with your growth, I think most people who are seeking God honestly would say that the struggle is to do the things that Jesus teaches with a pure heart. We all struggle with that, none of us have it right (and if someone tells you they do then you probably need to run away fast. :) ) Being a follower of Christ is a daily (sometimes by the minute) struggle with aligning my life with his desire and will. It isn't easy but the more I do it the easier it becomes. And ultimately the goal is worth the struggle.

I have read thru most postings and have lots to say but not much time, so I will only add this -
I am a Christian- when we were choosing a church in the area we went to a NUMBER of churches before we found one we liked (LOVED!)- no church will ever be perfect- when we join a church we are to add our special God given gifts to strive to make it as God intends- a loving fellowship and a support for everyone as well as a place to learn and worship. IMO, this should be in ALL areas of life- not just for a place to go on Sunday mornings. Anyway, don't be afraid to try different churches- it is very important for us to find one which is Bible- Based- teachings are direct from the bible not twisted around or skipped because it may "offend" some people. I feel very comfortable reading the bible and believing it as TRUTH and I love that my church teaches the bible for what it is.
Anyway, just wanted to add that.
Hugs, hun... hope you find a loving home to worship in. I feel it is so important to have a fellowship you believe in. BTW, I wanted to add- The Purpose Driven Life is a GREAT book with a lot about churches/fellowships and the same author has written The Purpose Driven Church (which I haven't written yet but plan to get because I've heard wonderful things about it)

Oddly enough, no real anger towards Christianity but I do have some latent anger at my ex-religion of Wicca.

Try Stealing Jesus by Bruce Bawer. He takes on fundamentalism, in all it's ugliness. I've had to read, and reread it a few times.

I thought, why is he complaining? The meanest people I know are Christians. And then, it clicked.

Cloister Walk is another good book. written by a middle weight poet, so somewhat woo- woo, but a nice book.

CSLewis, in the Screwtape Letters, screechingly funny. A senior devil is counseling a junior devil on beguiling the soul of a person. I still rely on this book, in and out of church, esp in dealing with extraordinarily frustrating, difficult people- including awful Christians.

Since the work of the soul is inmost and private, I doubt that anyone will be able to see or respond to your particular flavor- you can't "get" theirs either, except in the most extraordinary friendship. It's really quite unfair to expect that. At best, a church, or a group, or AA, is a broad boat, with lots of room to more or less be part of a conversation about matters of goodness, or darkness, or the soul. It's in the conversation, or in the practice, which, honestly usually isn't "peak performance" that people grow. I mean, honestly, we have a book covering a thousand years, and they can record all the really memorable, spectacular encounters with the divine- and we can name the people- Moses, David, and so on. Why should we expect to "touch the face of god," each and every sunday, or feel fully comforted and in tune with each prayer. Like, Jesus heals ten people, and nine go on about their lives, and one says thank you. Jesus, at best, gets notices 10% of the time- what's our gratitude/feedback percentage supposed to be?

So you know, we attend a church, mostly b/c the kids love it, and I want them to have that boatride. I had to go look for it, and then campaign for it, over the course of about six months. I won't let them attend church with any of the grandparents. I don't want to have to explain the repellent aspects. I don't see that as being "anti-christian," I see it as protecting my children.

FWIW, the history of the church is the history of leaders with really quite abstract and disembodied notions of the divine versus the laity, who had more physical, and grounded notions-which sounds about where you are. It's a story that is older than writing.

ari

Michelle,

I find myself angered a great deal these days towards Fundamentalist Christianity. I think this will only get worse, especially with the religious-right becoming synonomous with the Republican Party, and with that greatly affecting American politics.

I don't know what to tell you other than, breathe!!! What gives me hope is my homeschooling Christian friends that are able to have their strong faith, and yet have the ability and courtesy to respect my space, my own faith, and who genuinely enjoy inter-faith sharing without judgement. Unfortunately I find, in general, that these types of Christians in today's society appear to be dwindling, and by far are not the majority.

Grassaf,

Becca