UPDATE: He rested his head against my chest while we were sitting on teh sofa and as we talked he said "I love you mommy." I asked him what does love mean and he said to care about some one. I asked him if he cared about me then why did he hurt my feelings. He said I don't know. I said do you care about my feelings and he said yes. I don't think he can verbalize the reason why he has been doing this but I think we had a big break through today. He seemed sincere to me and I felt so much better. I only have a few things out and the rest is put away. I can't teach him to not touch if it isn't there in my feelings.
Thank you for all the advice and it made me think a lot.
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He is practically 4 and has no remorse for others. He keeps getting thing of mine that mean a lot to me and braking and tearing them up. When I am crying and hurt he shows no sense of caring, never says sorry and never cries because I am crying. Never has. He will just go on and play with something with out a care while I am crying my eyes out.
But as soon as you take something of his and say how would you feel if I broke this of yours he screams and balls. So I say that is how much my things mean to me but he is so caught up in his own self he doesn’t get it. Where did I go wrong? It hurts me more that he doesn’t care about mine or others feelings then when he breaks something of mine and that even means a lot. So you can see how badly this hurts me.
I thought I was raising him better then this.
We always taught him love him self and love others and care about people and their stuff as your own.
What if he never has remorse and grows up like this? :wah:

Oh mama please don't give up hope. He's very young yet. My almost 4 yr old girl won't apologize unless I show her how. Her apologies seem sincere once I've started that process. Until now the whole world has revolved around them & it's tough transition to "big kid".

I don't know that you asked for any advice but it does sound like he's learning to cry about his stuff b/c that's your reaction to your stuff?

I don't have much advice to give, but I want to give you some ((hugs)) because it must be so hard to deal with.

One question, you said that after he breaks something on purpose, he just goes off and plays with something else. Is there any set consequences that occur after breaking something on purpose?

He will just go on and play with something with out a care while I am crying my eyes out

But as soon as you take something of his and say how would you feel if I broke this of yours he screams and balls. Is he just doing what he sees you do?

Maybe instead of crying when this happens, come down to his level, look right in his eyes and explain why it is upsetting to you. Sometimes young children have a hard time relating to the "How would you feel if I..." scenario.

Maybe it would be good to sit down and explain what sorts of things are *not* for playing with and show him all of the things that he CAN play with?

Sorry you are having a rough time... :( I hope things get easier between the both of you soon!

I wanted to add that I don't think it's right to have consequences (or punishment or correction) after breaking something on accident. But, it sounded like your ds is breaking thing on purpose. My apologies if I am reading that wrong.

I would make sure there are consequences to touching something after they've been told a few times that it is special, delicate, or not for kidlets to touch.

I don't have much advice to give, but I want to give you some ((hugs)) because it must be so hard to deal with.

One question, you said that after he breaks something on purpose, he just goes off and plays with something else. Is there any set consequences that occur after breaking something on purpose?

Is he just doing what he sees you do?

Maybe instead of crying when this happens, come down to his level, look right in his eyes and explain why it is upsetting to you. Sometimes young children have a hard time relating to the "How would you feel if I..." scenario.

Maybe it would be good to sit down and explain what sorts of things are *not* for playing with and show him all of the things that he CAN play with?

Sorry you are having a rough time... :( I hope things get easier between the both of you soon!

Thank you sweetie.
Yes. He loses privlidges. Like TV, play time together because I am so up set, time out, or a favorite toy taken away and it is put in the time out drawer for the day and given back the next if I remember to. LOL

You said "Maybe instead of crying when this happens, come down to his level, look right in his eyes and explain why it is upsetting to you."

THis was my first response to him but after a while it started feeling personal and I started to cry about it. I show and tell him that mommy and daddies things are off limit. He is only allowed to touch and play with his own toys.
I hope I do start to see a spark of (I feel bad when you do mommy) in the months to come.

I wanted to add that I don't think it's right to have consequences (or punishment or correction) after breaking something on accident. But, it sounded like your ds is breaking thing on purpose. My apologies if I am reading that wrong.

I would make sure there are consequences to touching something after they've been told a few times that it is special, delicate, or not for kidlets to touch.
THank you mama. Yes he goes out of his way to climb up high and get it and starts tearing the paper into pieces and says "I did it because I want to turn your things into garbage. " Oh how much hearing that hurt.

ITA with What Meeshi said. What kind of consequences does he have for this kind of behavior? Also, maybe your reaction is his "reward" kwim. Maybe if you just put him in time out but at the same time act like you don't even care that he broke your stuff he won't have any enjoyment or any reason to get a reaction out of you. Does that make sense?

Oh mama please don't give up hope. He's very young yet. My almost 4 yr old girl won't apologize unless I show her how. Her apologies seem sincere once I've started that process. Until now the whole world has revolved around them & it's tough transition to "big kid".

I don't know that you asked for any advice but it does sound like he's learning to cry about his stuff b/c that's your reaction to your stuff?

THank you. I used to tell him to say sorry but now I wait to see if it is a natural expression of his or not and so far it is not. I know he is young adn has so mcuh growing to so. But all the kids I cared for in my family and even my niece and nephew I raised from babies to 3 and 4 used to feel bad when ohters did so it just seemed od to me. And I got scard for him.

I hope so too, Tricia!

Maybe making one cosistant consequence to touching and breaking something he's been told not to would help?

I know that Nico's bio-mom had a hard time with Nico before she started using *consistant* consequences.

I can totally understand how dealing with it time and time again could make it seem personal and lead to having a more emotional reaction. Deep breaths, Mama.

Wishing you the best...

I hope so too, Tricia!

Maybe making one cosistant consequence to touching and breaking something he's been told not to would help?

I know that Nico's bio-mom had a hard time with Nico before she started using *consistant* consequences.

I can totally understand how dealing with it time and time again could make it seem personal and lead to having a more emotional reaction. Deep breaths, Mama.

Wishing you the best...
:big hug:

I have noticed in raising our children that the age of approx 5 yrs can be a turbulent one. (same with around age 8)

I noticed that the five year old range was more difficult of a time with my boys as compared to my girls....and the age 8 year old range was opposite. (more difficult time with my girls than boys)

I'd play detective and try to see why he is seeming to take out his anger on your things and trying to get at you specifically. Has there been a life-milestone lately in his life? Or a family transition or change that may be causing him a lot of stress? (sometimes something that seems so minor to us adults can be major earthshattering to a child)

Is he affectionate at all? If so, I don't think you have a child w/no ability to feel remorse.

I honestly feel with boys, it gets easier the older they get. My teenaged son is such fun to be around and has been so for the past couple years....I really see the man he is developing into and am so happy with what I see. But back when he was around age 5......oh, boy was it a tough time for me as a mother.

Hugs,
Michelle

Sounds like it's within the parameters of normal 4 yo behaviour. I also completely agree with what Meeshi said.

Also, maybe your reaction is his "reward" kwim. Maybe if you just put him in time out but at the same time act like you don't even care that he broke your stuff he won't have any enjoyment or any reason to get a reaction out of you. Does that make sense?

This makes a lot of sense to me. Sometimes I forget how powerless little children can feel: we tell them what to do and when to do it, what to eat and when to eat it, etc etc etc. But if little powerless 4 year old can make powerful Mommy cry and carry on, that just might be very exciting.

I'd try a couple of things -- first I would put your special things someplace where he can't get to them-- put a combination lock on a closet, hide them in the attic or basement, etc. Second, try to give him more control and choices over his immediate environment. I know that sometimes I can over control my 3 1/2 year old and then try to counterbalance that with lots of choices about things that don't make any difference to me -- what color cup to drink out of, eat at the table or on the floor, etc etc.

Karla

Sounds like he is getting something out of doing this. He seems to like the reaction he is getting, which is you getting upset. Difficult as this may be, until the behavior is no longer providing him with something he wants he may not be motivated to change it.

If this was a situation in a therapeutic foster care setting (and I did in fact have one child who did things like this !), I would personally handle this with "pocket time".(explained later on)

When a child is displaying behaviors that are disrespectful to others/property and is not responding to re-direction/removal of priviliges, that child is saying that they need help making better decisions. The behavior needs to become uncomfortable to *them* before they will change it.

At the first sign of him seeking out to destroy things that are yours (or his/someone elses), put some small toys/art supplies/paper in a basket/small bag and give him "in Mommy's pocket" time. Explain to him that he is making choices that are hurtful to himself and others, and you realize you have given him too much freedom to do so.You are going to help him make better choices. Let him put his hand in your pocket for a while you go about the house. Then say:"That is how close I want you to stay to me". While you go about your day, have him play with the items provided in the basketwhile is is happy to do so, and when he loses interest he can help with chores. It may well end up kindof boring for him, but that is a natural result of not making good choices with his freedom to play. He loses that freedom for a time, while spending time being in close (and loving!!!) contact with you. Be very loving while he is this severely restricted. Express sadness for his choices, sad FOR the child as opposed to upset with the behavior. It is the reaction he is after. Remove the reaction. Very tough to do. The pocket time technique is reinstated each time he makes a poor choice about property/boundaries. "Wow, it looks like you need some help making good choices again. I see you need more pocket time". That time can be filled with soft touch, loving eye contact, praise for good choices however few he is able to make at that point. Very high maintainance technique but well worth it when nothing else works. It also works on the attachment principle that he needs more time WITH you versus "time out"---->time separated from you. It is a technique for RAD kids who need practice internalizing choices better, learn self motivation and natural cause and effect. Works well for other kids too if you are willing to deal with the time/inconvenience factor....

HTH?

Anna, you beat me too it, I was going to suggest that :) I was thinking that RAD techniques would work in this situation.

It's hard, but DON'T give him a reaction. Stay calm, matter of fact, and neutral. And be consistent. That is key.

Has anything changed lately that would cause this behavior? Moving? Stress? New friends?

You've gotten some great advice, so I don't have much to add.

Anna, you beat me too it, I was going to suggest that :) I was thinking that RAD techniques would work in this situation.

It's hard, but DON'T give him a reaction. Stay calm, matter of fact, and neutral. And be consistent. That is key.

Has anything changed lately that would cause this behavior? Moving? Stress? New friends?

You've gotten some great advice, so I don't have much to add.

No, He's always had a naturally destructive behavior with hands on items since I could remember. We could never give him anything new and couldn't let him play with anything that could be broken unless we sat there and watched him constant.
He is very loving and extremely intelligent. I thought by now at this age he could be talked to. He has only stopped destroying his own (mostly) and have gone after my things now. I am scared to set a picture, paper or anything down for a minute in fear he will go after it. :(
I think our couch talk today was good and I will see what happens. I always use the pocket when we are out at stores if he won't stay close.

Um, we;re talking about a child who isn't even 4 here, right? Expecting a child that age to internalize other's feelings and not be self-centered is asking more than he's capable of, IMO. At that age, I just don't think that a child has the emotional or mental capabilities to look at the world around him in any way but how it affects him, yk? While I definitely think that there should be consequences for him intentionally breaking items in the home (say, he loses a toy when he breaks something, etc, and it's not a punishment for not being empathetic, but for not follwoing the house rules that we don't break things). I think it may be asking a bit too much that he cry when you cry, etc. I agree with Karla, if he's unable to stay away from items that you have an emotinal attachment to (that you'd be very upset/crying if he got a hold of and broke) then I'd suggest putting those items up out of his reach or away completely until he can be trusted not to break them.

here's some info on ages and stages, the first one is for 4 year olds, and says that they begin to express sympahty and empathy during the 4 year old period: http://www.allaboutmoms.com/age4.htm

And another that speaks directly to your issue: (I've quoted the most relevant part below)
[quote]When a child reach the pre-school years, 3 to 4 years old, they are very self-centered. Debrovner explains that their perception of the world is that it revolves around them. They are starting to talk and play in groups. They have no emotional ability to have empathy for others — even though parents expect them to.[/quote}
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/13/earlyshow/series/main522016.shtml

So, I think that perhaps you may have to high expectations for his age, and you're definitely being too hard on yourself in thinking that you're a bad mom becuase he's not being empathetic. Give him some time to develop the emotional skills, and in the mean time, take proactive steps to protect your precious things :)

ETA: another link that I thought as good on helping you child along with the empathy learning :)
http://parentcenter.babycenter.com/refcap/preschooler/praising/64710.html

I think it may be asking a bit too much that he cry when you cry, etc. I agree with Karla, if he's unable to stay away from items that you have an emotinal attachment to (that you'd be very upset/crying if he got a hold of and broke) then I'd suggest putting those items up out of his reach or away completely until he can be trusted not to break them.
[/quote}
So, I think that perhaps you may have to high expectations for his age, and you're definitely being too hard on yourself in thinking that you're a bad mom becuase he's not being empathetic. Give him some time to develop the emotional skills, and in the mean time, take proactive steps to protect your precious things :)

ETA: another link that I thought as good on helping you child along with the empathy learning :)
http://parentcenter.babycenter.com/refcap/preschooler/praising/64710.html

Thank you Theresa,
You are correct but on the topic of keeping things out of reach, I thought the were. He climbed on top of the mini fridge where I had put a large based fan on that stands 5 foot and wiggled behind it adn reach way above his heaqd and grabed it off the top of the VCR table on top of the TV. I still don't knwo he could have gotten it. Everything else are on top of the book shelves and such. Only a handful to remind me of my loved ones.