Hey Ladies!

Well, J and I have been doing everything we can to get out of the financial chaos we were left in after J's clients ripped us off to the tune of $18,000. (Long story, search my old posts if you need more info) However, it has been a real struggle.

We've been discussing camping out on our property once the weather breaks to try to save the $600 a month we're spending on rent and catch up on everything else that is behind. We've looked into yurts and tipis, but we don't have any cash to work with at the moment, so it's looking like we may be setting up the camper van for a while. And J will be working, with the time and matrials he can spare, to buld some sort of shelter to have up there by the time the cold weather hits again in the Fall.

Has anyone else had to camp out temporarily? Any words of advice or wisdom to pass along?

I love camping out, but this is not the ideal situation I'd had in my head. But, we've not had a lot of luck in catching up on all of financial strains we were put in by J's clients. We've had our phone and electric shut off (back on for now, but due to be shut off again on the 7th) and I am betting we'll be getting an eviciton notice in the next few days. We just don't know what else we can do to cut down our monthly spending and be able to get back on our feet again. We're between a rock and a hard place and moving up to our property seems like the only way we are going to be able to land on our feet.

Now, our camper van has a bed, sink, toilet, and 12V fridge. Chances are, though, that we will set up some sort of outdoor kitchen. Does anyone have any suggestions for ways to warm and store water for bathing or showering?

We won't be making the move until April 1st at the earliest, so we have a month to prepare. I'd really appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone might have.

Unfortunately, I have no experience or advice to share. But that sounds like a dream to me! Especially for the summer. Kind of like Pionerer house.

Just by the little I have seen of you on your posts I think you will do awesome. Good luck!

I've roughed it for a time before but we didn't think it was roughing it but living off the land LOL
We had an old beer keg painted black up on a rock for heating in the sun for showers. No morning showers, and the water got really hot!!
We really learned how to conserve water and treated it like gold.
We had to carry it a distance to our cabin but it was such great tasting water.
Hammocks for sleeping in were fun too!!!
Your girls will most likely look back on it as the best time of their lives.

When I was a kid, my family of 6 lived in a tiny travel trailer for a few months (til my folks could find a house when we moved to a new area) The trailer didn't have a toilet (we used a community toilet) and the kitchen was very much like a camp stove set up.

My mom grew up in a log cabin with an outhouse in upper Wisc. and they managed fairly fine (they had a sauna house with rocks heated by a fire and buckets of water to bathe in)

It sure does sound like a challenging adventure Meeshi.

Maybe J could get enough lumber here and there to build a nice cozy shed to live in at first and then you could incorporate that into the real home as you go along and get more resources.

Best of wishes for you guys!

could Jay maybe make some playstands and sell them on the marketboard? I'm sure they would sell!

We used to have family and friends save their gallon milk jugs to fill with water. We would keep them sitting out in the sun and because the plastic is so thin they would heat quickly.

If you know someone with a big freezer, milk jugs can be frozen to use for ice in coolers and as they thaw you have cold water to drink.

We only bathed when absolutely necessary, but it was warm outside so we played in the river several times a day.

Maybe this is TMI, but we also used to take a handicap potty thing, the kind that sits ontop of a regular toilet, but has legs and handrails attached. We would set it up in the woods in between 4 trees and run a rope around them to hang sheets off of to create a bathroom.

This was many years ago when we only had 2 kids, now we stay in a RV so there is no 'roughing it'.

If I think of anything else I'll edit this post.

Is there anything I have that I can send you that may help? I mean, I really don’t know what you will need, but if you think of something. Clothes? Blankets? Food items?

I know I am not being of much help…I am just worried you will be cold, it sounds silly, but that is my worry.

You will be fine, you are an amazing, intelligent, strong person.

My only thought…and this may seam silly…but one of those fire pits, you can get grills that you place on top of them, for cooking and putting tea kettles on. And maybe for a quick shelter a pergola with mosquito netting…I don’t know if this helps, they are just thoughts.

you have the foxfire books right?

can you stay with your mom or your sister for awhile?

At least until spring/warmer weather?

I am afraid you could get CPS up your arse this way, what with the kids and no utilities, etc.

Or maybe they could watch the girls for a bit while you and J. both found some temporary work in town? Video store, heath food store, grocery, etc.?

Have you looked into foodstamps, etc.? Sounds like you might be able to qualify for emergency cash assistance or housing assistance as well.


Hope you find relief soon!

Emily

Meeshi,

You are resourceful and smart, and I know you will find ways to deal with living in a less-than-optimal situation.

That said, I am concerned about you and your family roughing it while the weather is still cold - I know that in NY, you can expect snow/frost/freezing temps through the end of April. If it was just the two of you, I'm sure you'd make it, no problem. But with the two girls...their little bodies won't tolerate cold as well as yours, and if they get the inevitable spring colds and viruses, they won't heal as well while roughing it as you described. Also, you might find that J's ex won't be too happy about N visiting you guys under these circumstances.

I don't mean to be the voice of doom. I'm just wondering if there isn't another way for you to live, at least until the warm days and nights of summer arrive. Can you stay with family for a while? Can one of you take a temporary job just to make ends meet? It might not be an ideal situation, but it might be safer than camping out from now until summer, kwim?

I say this with kindness and hope you take it with that regard.
:)
Tara

I've done it - as a kid - so forgive me, my experiences are from 25 or so years ago..but roughing it is roughing it.

I personally would not be concerned about CPS. It is your land, and you homeschool. The only way CPS would get involved is if someone complained. And there are no laws against living in a van.

We lived in a trailer, starting in March, in Northern Ontario, for well over 6 months. This trailer was the smallest you can imagine. We were right by a crick. We had a hole in the ground with a stick to perch your butt over, an outdoor fireplace for cooking on, and I know we had a source of heat inside. I *think* at the beginning we had a propane heater, but I know they installed a pot belly stove (with all the necessary metal sheilding, etc.)

It was the time of our lives. Everything was magical. When spring finally came, we built our small (15x15) house to live in. Eventually it became my Mother's art studio when we built a large house in later years.

We sponged bathed inside the trailer.

We were clean, warm, well fed and well loved.

And now and again, when we had had enough, we would visit some relatives for the weekend and have really long showers.

However, for years after that winter, my parents felt that being in the north was not worth it in the winter. We would pack up our car and head south for the coldest three months...camping in the Keys. Thye figured that the cost of heating and clothing etc would more than pay for our camping fees. I have heard things are crazy expensive now so I don't know if that is still possible.

You are an awesome Mom, Meeshi, from all the posts I have read from you. Solve the heat source issue and then go for it.

first of all, ((meeshi)) miss ya mama!!

the summer before 5th grade i was w/ my dad & his new family in northern cali. decided to stay & go to school, he was building a house so we decided to move out of the rental we were in & live outside ( on our property)for 3-4m while we built the house. it was awesome, i loved it. we slept in tents, ate at a picnic table, used the creek for bathing & refridgeration & water - planted a huge garden. i recall my step-sis & i made a "dresser" w/ cinder block, wood & then draped plastic over it...lol, got wet a few times w/ summer rain, but it worked.
we were prob. 12 miles at least from our small town of 500 waaay up in the mountains. i have such fondness for those days.

you could do it if you had to. but when i did it it was summer, so i'd worry about the cold too.

man meeshi, i'm sorry mama. keeping you in my thoughts :heart:

Since you have a while have you looked into getting a job at night or weekends? That way J could watch the kids and you'd be bringing in some money. Maybe see about moving into a cheaper house or apartment?

It may not be your dream vision of how things should go but sometimes we have to bite the bullet and *gasp* give up our visions temporarily.

I would do that before dragging my kids out to live in a camper when it's still cold, without running water, heat, etc...

Welll...CPS will not do a thing unless someone complains, this is true. Are you willing to take the chance that no one will? How is Nico's mom going to react to this? I know my ex would sue me for custody in a hurry.

I think you would do a great job, don't get me wrong, but I have been a foster mom for 5 years now and I have seen CPS make decisions (and make them STICK!!!) that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

CPS can remove your children if they feel they are not receiving the care the kids need. No electricity would be a huge red flag if it lasted a while. All it takes is one complaint and a social worker with an agenda. Whether they are right or not, if they can convince a juddge that the kids *might* be at risk they can remove them. I would not want my kids subjected to even the remote possibility of them spending the night in an emergency foster home or a receiving center...and they do not hear your side of the story until after the kids are gone, that happens a lot....

That said, I am really sorry you guys are going through this. I hope there is a different solution out there for you.

Meeshi HON I have a ton of links for you. You need to go to your library and see if they have any of these, if they don't, then you need to consider getting some.

Here is free information on building your own yurt.
http://www.woodlandyurts.freeserve.co.uk/byo.html
Since you will be on your own land, you could harvest some of the wood to make it from your land. Or J can probably come up with the wood needed. If those plans aren't extensive enough, you can get the book
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1899233083/qid=1109596708/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-5936843-6007025
That one is the best.
See if you can get your hands on this one
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890132861/qid=1109596708/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/103-5936843-6007025
It would be great inspiration for what you are doing.
Have you thought about a Tipi, if you haven't, you should. Here's an excellent book on the subject.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0806122366/qid=1109596841/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5936843-6007025?v=glance&s=books
I only mention the tipis and yurts because it sounds like you were interested in them and if you could make them yourself, it might be worth it. I know that you are having finance problems but you might be able to find the canvas for either of these from an RV or canvas awning place for cheap or free if they are getting rid of some then its only sewing and harvesting wood off your own property. Or check your local freecycle, someone might have some canvas they are getting rid of (or anything else for that matter that may help you).
Before you buy remember to check out the library, Half.com, overstock.com and of course ebay.

This site may help some of your cooking and longterm camping problems:
http://www.primitiveways.com/
Since you homeschool, you could make into a homeschooling project.
I would also reccommend an earthoven and a solar oven for cooking.
Earthoven links:
http://www.cobcottage.com/coboven.html
http://www.intabas.com/kikodenzer.html
http://mha-net.org/msb/html/bakeoven.htm
http://www.geocities.com/mosesrocket/
http://www.permaculture.co.uk/mag/Articles/Earth%20Oven.html
http://www.papercrete.com/heat.html
I plan on making one of these my self soon, though it may not be until the fall.
http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/oven

Solar Oven links:
http://solarcooking.org/plans.htm
http://www.solarovens.org/
My husband LOVES cooking in the solar oven he made. You could probably use some of these ideas to rig up a solar water heater too.

Different Stoves:
http://www.efn.org/~apro/AT/attitlepage.html
http://66.218.71.225/search/cache?p=build+earth+stove&ei=UTF-8&fl=0&u=solstice.crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Still/AprovechoPlans/englishjustaplans.pdf&w=build+earth+stove&d=80398364AB&icp=1&.intl=us

This site is a cobwood (think cordwood with cob instead of cement mortar) site, He has a book out that has lots of good ideas in it.
http://www.thatroundhouse.info/


The Humanure book to take care of the toilet problem:
http://www.weblife.org/humanure/

Bender tents require no sewing, just canvas and tarps and only use saplings that you can find on most wooded properties.:
http://www.enslin.com/rae/gypsy/bender.htm
They don't have to be that formal, in the book I mentioned above, Circle Houses, in the back it tells you how to build benders. It basically tells you to sharpen the thicker ends and put them in the ground, then tie the tops together. then weave sapplings in and out, make sure to leave space for a door and tie to the supports. Drape canvas over the structure and around the door (and window if you have one). For a door you can just roll up the canvas if you don't make a wooden one.
The same book shows pictures of a greenhouse made from plastic sheeting and saplings if you needed to grow some of your own food. I don't think most benders are big enough to stand in though, but they may give ya'll a seperate bedroom from the camper and give ya'll a little more space.

Solar Water heater, I couldn't find any good free plans but you might be able to figure out how to make it yourself just by looking at these sites:
http://www.solaror.org/Publications/Batch_Plans.htm
http://www.jc-solarhomes.com/how_to.htm
http://solarwaterheater.20m.com/
http://www.i4at.org/surv/solheat.htm
http://www.knowledgepublications.com/free_solar_panels.htm
http://teachingtreasures.com.au/solar-energy/solar-ho****er.htm

I know this isn't the way you would have liked to live on your property but think of it this way, its a little experiement in primitive living that your children can learn from. I'm so sorry that your having to go through this. If I lived closer you could use my books instead of trying to find them. Most of mine are in storage right now though <sigh>.

Honestly, I tried to talk my husband into something similar, though not quite as rustic and not because we had to. But he said no. I was going to live in yurts and have plumbed water, compost toilets and solar electricity. So we are downsizing big time to pay off bills so that we might get the property that we want in a few years.

I know I have more links and stuff that might help but I honestly can't find them or think of them right now.

I'm so sorry your going through this. I agree, J should make some playstands and wooden toys for sale on the market board, that may buy you some more luxury anyway. Also I know I already mentioned this, but beg your local freecycle for stuff. You'd be surprised what people get rid of.

If you do a roof over your cooking area you could do rainwater harvesting. You could at the very least have water for dishes and baths this way.

rainwater harvesting and collecting
http://www.tnrcc.state.tx.us/exec/sbea/rainwater/rainwater.html
http://www.nahbrc.org/tertiaryR.asp?TrackID=&DocumentID=2129&CategoryID=1315


Here's a little inspiration, though this wasn't long-term:
http://www.hollowtop.com/journals/jcampingkids.htm
http://www.hollowtop.com/pls.htm

I can't find the sites I used to have on camping longterm. There were some that would be very useful to you.

Living offgrid, homesteading and primitive links and more, which may be helpful.
http://offgrid.homestead.com/
http://www.homesteadtechnology.com/
http://www.prairiewolf.net/Pages/PW.html
http://hundorp.homestead.com/cabin.html
http://buckcreek.tripod.com/chapter3.html
http://www.laundry-alternative.com/

The B.E.L.L. site had some useful information that I thought you could use too.
http://geocities.com/newlibertyvillage/earthstar.htm

Meeshi,

Those links look great.

I know you can collect water in large plastic "bags" hanging in trees to be heated by the sun and shower under. Several companies make them but I am sure you could make one cheaper, maybe. I am sure with J's experience you know where to find good wood, etc. but remember to keep your eyes out. Churches and cities will often give houses away if you demolish/move them.

The bedside commode is a great idea. You can get those at goodwill/thrift shops for nothing. I have one, I wish I could figure out how to ship it to you.

Please, Please, Please let us know what we can do for you. I know how hard this must be. I have been close to where you are. But, I did not have children at the time.

Originally posted by )O(Meeshi)O(
Hey Ladies!

We've been discussing camping out on our property once the weather breaks to try to save the $600 a month we're spending on rent and catch up on everything else that is behind. We've looked into yurts and tipis, but we don't have any cash to work with at the moment, so it's looking like we may be setting up the camper van for a while.

Has anyone else had to camp out temporarily? Any words of advice or wisdom to pass along?



Now, our camper van has a bed, sink, toilet, and 12V fridge. Chances are, though, that we will set up some sort of outdoor kitchen. Does anyone have any suggestions for ways to warm and store water for bathing or showering?

We won't be making the move until April 1st at the earliest, so we have a month to prepare. I'd really appreciate any advice or suggestions anyone might have.

For a shower with privacy.....take a umbrella and open and turn upsidedown and hang with some rope from a tree branch.....hook a shower curtain all around the umbrella on the "points" along the opened umbrella and it is a instant standing shower. For the water, get a couple of those pressurized (fairly cheap) insectiside sprayers that folks use to spray their gardens with. Get a new one of course.....and fill with water and leave in the sunshine. The water will warm and you will have a instant decent pressured spray shower head dealie. This is what we used when we use to camp primitive tent camping locally. (before the grizzlies got out of control and it became too dangerous last year to camp anymore at all)

My dh spent a number of months as young teen with his family (has five siblings and one was a toddler when they did this) living waaay up in the Rockies hand building wooden suspension bridges. I know his mom used a couple of old army tents....they did not have a camper. One tent was for sleeping and one for cooking area. You have the camper for sleeping so maybe you can get a old army tent (they are cheap secondhand) and use that for the cooking "kitchen" area.

I'm sorry to hear about your rough times you have had. I'm sure you can make it, you have always had a "get it done" attitude and spirit.

Michelle

{{{{{{{{{{{Meeshi}}}}}}}}}}}}

I was just thinkin' about you, cos I was talking about great blue heron last night.

I also fear for you about the cold. You could get frosts up there through May. Can you think of anyone you could stay with til the danger of frost has passed? I wish we lived closer- my extra beds go to waste every day!

Short-term though, other than that, I think it would be awonderful experience for all of you, and you have the power and strength and know-how to do it! And with the camper van you'd be set. Abel's aunt and uncle have camped for weeks at a time in their vw bus, and they have the same set up as you...fridge, sink, bed, and 2 kids!

I also second the suggestion of J making things to sell (I remember you saying once he had surplus wood?) and that maybe you could get a part-time job. I know, NOT ideal, but something small, maybe a litle place that would let you bring Kaya? Just til it's nice and warm out!

Good luck...and please, really, let us know if you need anything. I'll be in upstate NY at least 2x this summer, if ya need help.

Thanks for the suggestions, ladies. Cherry, those links are awesome, thanks so much!! :D

Well, our landlord is nearing the end of his rope, but hasn't yet served up an eviction notice. We'll have at least 30 days once/if we get a notice.

J and I actually lived in the van for three months in the Fall after we met. Even on the nights that dipped into the 30's, if we turned on the van and cranked the heat for 15 minutes before bed, the van would stay amazingly warm.

This is not some decision we are making lightly, but it seems to be the only solution that is workable for us right now. Sure, we have some friends and family nearby, but it wouldn't be feasable to stay with any of them. Some have smokers in the household and the others are all over crowded as it is.

I'd love to be able to bring in some income right now, but #1 I cannot drive J's old tempramental Chevy (our only road-ready vehicle) and #2 J's job (in the heating business) requires that he be on call 24 hours a day for service calls. I've placed ads in the paper for daycare, but have not had any leads.

And even if we found a place to rent that was cheaper, we'd still have to come up with security and first and last months rent up front which would be impossible.

So, it seems like moving to our property is really our only choice.... We'll stick it our here as long as we possibly can, of course we want to stay until Spring comes at least. (Of course, friends of ours are having us apply for some Home Makeover TV show that builds houses for people. Wouldn;t it be neat if that worked out?)

I know that it would be a great experience, once we get the kinks worked out. I can't believe that CPS would have a problem with children living without electric as we have a lot of Amish and Menonites in the area that live without it just fine.

Keep the camping suggestions and links coming, please!! They are really helpful!

I just want to say it is WONDERFUL to see you! I have really missed you and I am glad you have checked in.

As for camping, I would love it... dh would die. He HATES being dirty, and you are dirty when you are camping, no matter what.

Here is what I would do if I was in that situation (I have been in ones like it in the past, but not to that extent).

I would purchase an outdoor cover... one used for a patio would work fine, and then put large wooden shelves up on all sides and connect them to the cover via ties through the sides of the shelves into the braces (which should be metal). It would have to be at least a 10' round to do what I am seeing in my head. (My neighbor got one that is VERY sturdy at Costco for under $200. A fire pit in the center (you may cut a hole for smoke depending on how tall the cover is). Then on one side I would put a large plexiglass lean-to (made of the stuff that green houses are made of, and a low shelf on one side. That would be a "window" for above the cooking area. You can make a brick fire place and have a padio brick counter top under that area for very little money and then of course the sleeping quarters will be the van. A gas stove (just regular camping stove) would work well for everyday meals.... and of course a couple REALLY good camping cookbooks. In the WINTER I would not stay there, but spring summer and part of fall I think this system would work fine even in a colder area like mine. If you can afford a load of pea gravel or larger small rocks that may be a welcome (and unflamable) option for flooring so it is not just grass or dirt.

This is what I was planning on doing when I was going to live in Portland with my son. Then I met Don, and we never got there. BUt I still protest that it would be a great way to live. Unfortunetly my dh would FLIP at the idea. He is very mainstream about stuff like that. I think it could have a romantic aspect to it... and as you guys get on top of things, you could easily add a yurt on to one side as sleeping quarters and live there pretty comfortably. :)

Love Val

I don't have much to add, esp after Cherrysberries gave so many good links, but just wanted to throw in my voice of support. We did stuff like this many times while I was growing up, from living in a little shack on the side of the mountain on the Island of Hawaii with no electricity or running water, to living in a van with no home for a few months, to staying in a camper on residential property for a few months, and I can honestly say it is totally doable!

I think of all people, you guys would be the most likely to succeed at it, too. If my current family did that, dh would be so miserable he would die.

I hope you find a good solution to the heating problem, and good luck! ( I really like the idea of installing a potbelly stove in the camper; those things are WARM, and vented properly, and the fuel would be right on your property. I don't know exactly where you would put it, but with the kids, in your location, I would consider it a necessity to figure out how to get it in there.)

Murali

okay, I've got more, LOL.

Seriously check into freecycle. Ask for the canvas, a wood stove (not sure what kind you would need, we don't need those kinds of things in Texas, too hot), old wool sweaters, and any materials you would need to make a solar water heater, your yurt/tipi/ and anything else you need. Also see if anyone has any old canvas army tents they want to get rid of, they are waterproof and you can use the canvas.

A wood stove can be put in the yurt if you put up metal flashing around the chimney.

Old wool sweaters can be used as insulation for the yurt or bender (don't need it for a tipi). Also you need a floor, so you can do dirt with rugs over it or you can get J to build a deck for whatever you are going to build.

I'll keep adding as I think of stuff

I know money is an issue, but there are catalytic heaters that run on propane that are designed for campers. There is even a small heater by Coleman that runs off the 1 lb. propane canisters; it's about $40 and provides 1500 BTUs of heat. We use a large catalytic heater when we dry camp in our pop-up; you'd need something smaller if you are using the van without a tent add-on. Good sleeping bags will do a lot to keep you warm at night; Freecycle is a great idea.

It will take some adjustment, but I think it is doable. You just need a clean water source and a way to stay warm.

Best wishes,

Kimberly

RV wrecking yards - if you have one in the area - you might be able to get a propane heater there also.

I can't think of any advice at the moment that hasn't already been given, but I just wanted to say it's good to hear from you. If anyone can make this situation work, you can.

No advice Meeshi,
But I must say that our forefathers endured much more than we are used to and I am certain you and J and the girls will get through this.
If this is what you have to do, I know you and J will be fine.

When Ray and I first married, we were in the same situation. He had some land with a 1 bedroom mobile home. (think camper size)

To get ahead financially, we moved out there and MADE IT WORK.
Quite honestly it was blissful until his exwife moved to the property behind us.

And we had 4 children.

I dont have any great ideas-we jsut packed into the camper at night and spent the days outdoors. And it was Florida-big difference in temperature.

I remember your post not to long ago about the commitment you adn J have and that you will set your focus on the fact that everything will work out-well Keep it up sister becuase you are right. Your love and determination TOGETHER will help guide you.

This is a rough patch... sending love your way, mama and warm thoughts.
Keep us posted as you are able.

I don't have any advice, but I wanted to let you know you are in my thoughts and prayers.

This, too, shall pass. Keep working toward your goals.

Please try to keep us updated. If you need anything, please don't hesitate to put the word out. Many people here care about you and want to help if possible.

:hug:

If for some reason you don't get warm shelter up by fall and you still are in the same position.......would you consider low income housing in a nearby town? I know this is a last resort, but if you are getting into cold weather and all......the daycare may also work there too short term for you to earn money to help get out of there and back on track.

Ok, everyone don't nail me for suggesting welfare.....just trying to help with any and all thoughts.

MIchelle

I did on page one.

You do what you have to when these situations arise.

There is no shame in welfare when you really need it.

It would be very lame for someone to flame you for making a viable suggestion.

Ugh, I had a big long post on water and how we did it in Alaska and when we lived in our Bus. I lost it but it looks like I managed to recreate most of it. :eek: Too much time on my hands today!

Basically - in our cabin we had a tall counter-like table with a shelf underneath in our cabin. The top was in fact a piece of countertop. In the middle was a two-compartment sink (no need for faucet) with a drain in the bottom. From the drain PVC went down into a 5 gallon bucket on the floor. Our main food storage was on the open shelf under the sink/countertop.

I used a large enamel kettle, I think it was 1 gal, to heat water on the stove. (Look for a Coleman camp stove, either 1 or if you can find it, 2 burner is awesome.) For baths for Katie I poured this into a large Rubbermaid storage tub and added an appropriate amount of room temp water. For washing up for us we had a round enameled basin and we did the same thing - pour in boiling hot water, add enough room temp to make it comfortable, dip in washcloth, soap up, use the water to rinse off. We also had a solar shower that you buy in camping stores (basically a 5-gal black plastic jug with a hose and watering can-type sprinkler on one end) but to be honest, we didn't use it that much...it was just as easy to have one person fill a pitcher and rinse the other person's hair over the basin. (We were stuck inside, too - if you can do it outdoors it's super easy, no mess, just do it over the ground.)

If you can get to a friend's or somewhere for a shower every 1 or 2 weeks it helps. We have showered at the docks in Olympia, at the University (check Cornell, in Alaska it was free to shower at the university), and at laundromats - but I think showers at laundromats are an Alaska thing.

For washing dishes I filled one side of the sink with boiling water, used gloves and as little room temp water as I could, and filled the other side with room temp water. Hot water to wash, cold to rinse. You could do this with dishpans too, but it makes it really nice to pull the plugs, drain the sinks, and have one big bucket that's easy to dump.

Our water was in 5 gallon barrel-like jugs with spouts. We kept one on the counter with a dishpan underneath for drips, to fill up water glasses, rinse off hands, etc - like a stream of water from a faucet. We also kept one on the side of the sink for the same purpose.

We got our water from a free artesian well...actually we had one in Oly and one in Fairbanks that we have used. I am not sure what there might be in Ithaca, but finding a source of good, drinkable water will be key. Or, you could haul stream water (you have lots of streams/creeks there, yes?) and use it to wash dishes, just dry really well...I'd boil and/or filter before drinking it or using for cooking though. But you could if needed buy bottled water for drinking/cooking.

If you are going to use the toilet in the camper you'll need a hookup at some point, right? How many acres will you be camping on?

I third tapping freecycle.org for possible gear. The heater atop a propane tank we called Mr. Heater and it was not that expensive and heated up a trailer nicely. Also, we lived in an 18 ft Airstream trailer shell for a while (before kids) and you might try looking for something like that - an RV trailer or something - convert a schoolbus? - something more permanent and bigger than the camper van.

Upstate NY seems awfully cold for yurts and tipis for the long term. But if J can frame something, build cordwood, or any sort of wood/timber cabin, even a small one, you could get through the first winter without running water or electric if you had a woodstove. Not that it would be easy. But I'd recommend if you do that, building a setup like the one I described (I can go into more detail) and if you are committed to being there for any length of time, have J build an outhouse or humanure setup.

begining when my oldest dd was 6 months old. We moved out to our land and camped/lived in the back of my dh's pickup truck w/ just a camper shell on it. A camper van would have seemed luxiourious. LOL We were next to a small creek. I cooked outside over a fire and used one of the bedside potties w/ a five gallon bucket under it.
We built a 16'X20' cabin and lived in it for years. We didn't get a well/real running water for 2 years.
I look back and remember it as the happiest years. I'd love to do it over again, if I could talke dh into it.
Email me if you want to ask any specific questions on how we did things.

Kdunnaway@bledsoe.net

Aileen

i agree with jessica, the foxfire books have a wealth of information that could really help out.
my husband grew up in TM centers, tents, the back of trucks and the tiny trailers that you hook up to the truck and it has a bed, sink and table in it. his parents performed all sorts of odd jobs. i cant say i would know to many people who would take their kids to a daycare that didnt have running water or electricity so maybe something else you can do?

maybe j could drive you to a job and if he got called in to work then you could work something out. unfortunately situations like this, sometimes you have to just take whatever comes at you and figure it out moment to moment. are you still selling mandalas? or maybe you could make another craft and sell it online? you could get j to take you to the library and post from there?

I second Mamabears' sink suggestions...you CAN do everything in just a bucket or a dishpan, but having a sink is SOO nice....it just makes working with things so much easier. I bet you could find a leftover one somewhere on freecycle.

A bucket with water works fine for baths(you don't need much hot water to make a bucket of warm bathwater, so heating water isn't really not that much of a trip), with a scoop for dumping water over yourself; I have done that many times. If you CAN do the shower thing, though, I LOVED having a shower that much more. I personally always felt much happier with things I was used to working with, like a sink and shower...it seemed to make things that much simpler, and comfortable. They don't take much to do(like the counter and sink....cooking meals three times a day is so much easier to handle when you have a proper working surface), but it helps make roughing it so much more bearable when you are having to deal with struggling with every aspect of daily life.

I think there are some great ideas here, and when you pick the most workable for you, and get your setup, you will find that it is sooo doable! I am almost envying you your coming adventure!


Murali

Oh am I so sorry! I dont know you but my heart goes out to you. Long story, but we lived in a 22 ft trailer in our driveway for 3 months. We had the luxury of having a garage for the space and it was above 100 degrees most days so we did not have to freeze. It sucked and we had hot water to use our little shower. The stove didnt work but we just grilled everything. I honestly can't imagine doing it while it is cold and rainy. I mean, you would adapt, but what a life changing experience it will be. I do have to say even though I had the luxury of a trailer I learned to appreciate a lot more things after my family and I moved back into our house 1.5 years ago. I have never forgotten the luxuries of having a house. The only thing I can only really think of for setting up space is going to walmart and spending 30 bucks on a screen house and getting a few tarps. Have your bbq put close by and maybe tarp the top of it and have it close to the side that zips. We do this when camping and have a tarp that fits perfectly underneath the screen house so that we can sweep out any dirt and then of course have rugs set down. I honeslty have to say though it sucked being cooped up in the trailer. SInce it was so hot I stayed in the trailer for the little a/c it had on it since my baby was only a year and my son was only 3. It was tight quarters and we got out a lot but we also did a lot in that little trailer. It was a real eye opener for me how much time I spent doing other things before the trailer, like clean...computer....read a book for myself....sew, cuz there just wasnt space and the kids really needed the one on one more so in tight quarters.
I hope everything works out the way you need it to. You sound like a strong willed woman and your kids have always sounded so sweet and spirited. You guys will make it and there will be so many life lessons to be learned that you can;t really teach. Take care of yourself.

Yes, your mandalas!!! I missed out on snagging one back when you posted them.

If you get a chance to make and post more.........I know that is not a lot of income, but I am sure they will sell as fast as they did last time if you post them here.

Michelle

Originally posted by emilytoys
I did on page one.

You do what you have to when these situations arise.

There is no shame in welfare when you really need it.

It would be very lame for someone to flame you for making a viable suggestion.

I missed your mention of it on pg 1........just going from past experience online when that topic comes up.

That was the reason for the disclaimer.

Ok, back to the topic at hand. ;)

Michelle

I see all the camping advice I had has already been given, but something did occure to me. Have you checked with habitat for humanity? I wonder if they would build you a house.

Oh bails of hay, pine straw etc make very good insulation. you could build a baracade of them around the camper, or a tent to help keep it warm.

Wishing you guys the best Meeshi! It sounds like an awesome adventure! I wish I had more good ideas for you.... if you need ANYTHING please pm or email me and I will do what I can to help. You guys are strong and I know you will get through this :)

i cant say i would know to many people who would take their kids to a daycare that didnt have running water or electricity so maybe something else you can do?


*rofl* No, no!!! I was saying that was the avenue I was trying to persue *before* it got to this point. Obviously a daycare would not work in the woods, but perhaps a day-adventure camp during the summer?

For now, we have an extention on our electric, until the 11th. They are still demanding $590.00 or else they will shut it off and they are not willing to work out any payment arrangements. The next two paychecks will go directly to our landlord and auto insurance so J can drive to work.

We have a lead on a yurt we may be able to borrow until next Winter. J is working up some plans for a small timber frame house to build to live in by the time cold weather hits again. He has the beams that he needs, we just need to figure out how to barter someone for the excavation. J is an incredible builder, he can pretty much do it all. It's just a matter of scavenging for materials.

The property does have a small stream that runs through it, so we are looking into a small scale hydropower generator. J can bring home potable water from his work if need be.

Honestly, I think living in the woods for a while could be a really awesome experience for all of us. Back to the Earth.

Meeshi, your post is very timely for me in my own life. I also believe you have the strength to provide whatever life you choose.

Our family is choosing to live that life in a couple of months...I'm glad you get to stay warm for as long as possible...through the winter is great. We're fixing up our 1960 school bus & we're gonna wing it.

We tried the whole making money thing, and it turns out we're not so good at it, and we'd rather spend time with our kids. So, we're gonna see where the wind takes us.

I'm sure you know the wind will bring what you need :big hug:

When my oldest was 10 mo, we lived in an army tent out in the middle of nowhere with a propane heater...then we upgraded to above school bus. Our lives were hard, but it was one of the most enjoyable things in my life...I've also been pg on the Rainbow Gathering trail, with no home, lived off Grateful Dead tour, etc. I am sure a person can do anything when they set their mind to it, and do it WELL!!!!

This is for Meeshi and mama_wingnut.... Get Carla Emery's (http://www.carlaemery.com/) book (or your local library should have it). This woman has done everything! She has great advice and does talks throughout the US. Check her site to see if she is coming near you. She knows TONS about the modern homesteading movement and living off the land. I have had the wonderful opportunity to meet and spend some time with Carla. She is one of the nicest people you will ever meet. Feel free to email her and ask questions. You can tell her that I sent you :D

Good luck to both of you, and I think you guys are doing a wonderful thing! :big hug:

This is for Meeshi and mama_wingnut.... Get Carla Emery's (http://www.carlaemery.com/) book (or your local library should have it). This woman has done everything! She has great advice and does talks throughout the US. Check her site to see if she is coming near you. She knows TONS about the modern homesteading movement and living off the land. I have had the wonderful opportunity to meet and spend some time with Carla. She is one of the nicest people you will ever meet. Feel free to email her and ask questions. You can tell her that I sent you :D

Good luck to both of you, and I think you guys are doing a wonderful thing! :big hug:


:ditto: :thumbsup:

I have to agree 100% with this. We met her last year at the gathering Becca hosted with them (her husband is a great guy too!). Dh has really beein inspired by the conversations we had. They are good people.

Meeshi,
Warm thoughts and prayers for you and your family.... we only get one time around.

We are also embarking on this journey this summerm/fall..... for our family it is part philosophical (living simply) and part the only thing that makes sense...
When my husband lost his job 5 1/2 years ago, we were off the fast track fast! It has been such a blessing.....

We are at the point now, of still renting a tiny apartment and him working all the time and us pinching..... we are blessed in sooo many ways. The time has come, however, for us to buy and move to our own land... .we have watched prices rise substantially in New England over these last several years. WE are buying land and hopefully with some sort of cabin on it probably in Maine by mid summer and to move to permanently October 1 - In maine there are lots of owner financing options, but jobs are few as well....

We originally hoped for ne vermont and haven't ruled it out, there are good job opportunities there, but $ are higher.

WE set a deadline, otherwise it would never occur.. WE have been learning and putting into practice many homesteading skills over these years.....

It will not be easy..

You are already two steps ahead of us with the land and camper.... It is possible and you will be on your own land!!! That is exciting......

We hope to record our journey in a book....as we have five children ages 11 months - 11.

Warm wishes,
Tonya
Home Educating, Simple Living, Mom of 5
http://www.naturalearthfarm.com
http://http://www.seasonsoriginals.biz/knit-baby-gnome.html - Join a free gnome knit-a-long!!

We were lucky to find our land a few years ago, selling for like $2,700 for close to three acres. Plus the owners were willing to work out low payments. The land has a slight slope and is completely wooded. One side is bordered by a small babbling brook that runs year round. It had some junk on it, so J has spent a good deal of time up there cleaning it up and clearing a few trees that really needed thinning.

It is just beautiful up there. There's a few neigbors down the road, but it is totally feasable to build a house in there that will not be seen from the road at all.

I guess, at first, I was really nervous about making such a move. The stress from our financial situation, plus the mid-Winter blahs, were tainting my view a bit. I was thinking more about losing a few trivial luxuries, and forgetting who *I* am. I was losing sight of what we're all about as a family. Living simply, in a beautiful patch of woods, that's a *vacation*!!

And, we'll be all the closer to our dream of someday living in a mortgage-free, alternative home. :)

Forgive me if I repeat anything that's already been said, I just kinda skimmed after the first page.
When our dd was 3 we lived in a camper van and tent for a summer. We were lucky as we had electricity hooked up from a near by house, but we had no source of running water. We just hauled water in large plastic jugs for drinking and washing. We had a small porta potty and outhouse (porta potty was for our dd and cold nights) and a solar shower bag. Just fill it up, leave it in the sun and a few hours later, you can have a warm shower.
We just spent two years living in a 500sq foot cabin with no running water and minimal electricity. We learned to bring the toilet seat in from the outhouse in the winter, and take it out when needed, so our butts wouldn't freeze. That is my best piece of advice to you! :) Good luck and have fun!

In 1997 we travelled to our wooded lot in Ontario, Canada almost every weekend with our 4 kids. The youngest was 6 mos old. We lived in the tent on the weekends & brought water, etc. with us and cooked outside with the a very old camp-stove. We lived in the winterized cottage we had been renovating for the past 10 years during the week and I was doing day-care full-time during the week. We sold that house in Feb of 1998. We bought a 1967 Air Stream Trailer and moved into it on the lot in May of 1998. We continued to clear the lot & started to build the house while we lived in the trailer. We lived in the trailer until Nov 21st, 1998, over 6 mos!! We dug a hole in the ground and put a box over it with a toilet seat on top. Then we stapled up plastic that had covered a product we ordered. It worked great in the spring with all the trees in leaf...but when fall came...it wasn't very "private" anymore. We did manage to borrow a generator but I think we were without any power for over a month. We bucketed water from the neighbour's to the lot. The trailer did have a water heater, but the water storage unit leaked so we ended up only putting in enough water for what we needed. Then refilling it when we needed it again. We had better access to water once the well was drilled and we used a submersible pump & hoses to get the water out until it was properly capped, etc. & run to the house.

If I was to do anything over I think we would have built a building to live in which would later be used for a shed or preferably a garage. The trailer had no heat source & was VERY cold in the early spring & late fall. But so hot in the summer I was often found in there in my bikini. It rained more that summer than it had in many, many years. That put a real "damper" on our building the house. Not much we could do about the weather. We built the house ourselves. My mom & dad came up to help as did DH's dad & a couple of his brother's. The neighbour's also were helpful and so were some fellows from DH's office. I "BINed", primed & painted 513 wooden siding boards!!

The house still isn't "done". Things like trim, etc. We built a gargage/stable/barn/workshop/tack room this past summer.

It certainly is doable & with access to so much info on the internet and a will do to it...I bet you can!!! We were "winging" it as there was a limited access to such info. We did borrow some books, etc. and the internet was fairly "new" back then.

Little funny side-note. We went to a group home-school camp-out that summer. People kept coming over & saying we looked like real professional campers...ha, ha!! The next door neighbours (at the camp-out & at home are the same family) couldn't help but laugh too!! The people asked if we camped a lot & then we had to admit we'd been camping since May!!

Oh yes...we set up an outdoor kitchen and that really helped too. We ate most meals outside at a picnic table. We had an outdoor screened area with with a water-resistant roof and another table & chairs so we could eat in there if it was raining. Last resort was eating in the trailer. I never had to clean up under the table. The skunks and racoons took care of that at night.

I was amazed at how the kids figured out ways to play. They even "made" dolls out of pieces of wood. They made teepees & set up areas in the forest for a little town. They still do that actually!! With all that rain we had many a "shower" out in the drive-way with a bar of soap in hand. We also lived close to a Provincial Park & would go to the beach to get wet. We were so lucky that our neighbours would offer the tub to us for the kids to get a good washing when needed!!

Oh I also did a lot of the laundry with an old wash board & hung the clothes on ropes between the trees. The wash board hangs in the bathroom as a reminder!

I wish you well!!!!

Kerri, mom to Amanda(14), Emma(13), B(12,foster dd), Maddison(10),J(10,foster dd), Jonah(8), Saige & Claire( 4, ID twin dds) & baby boy Teagan(Sept 2003)

I have lived outside "roughing it" many times (9 months when we lived in our tipi while building our house in 2003, 6 months in our tipi in 2000 as raft guides, March-June Appalachian Trail and June-October as a raft guide for a total of 7 months in '98), and have a TON of tips. Please ask any questions you may have - I will be glad to help!

Tipis and yurts are the way to go IMO. The key is that when it's cold you have a fire inside and it's cozy and fun (especially when it snows), and when it's been rainy and you can have fires to dry everything out. Can't do that in a regular tent and your things will get moldy. Just condensation from breathing in there will build up and cause mold. You don't have that problem in a tipi unless you live in the southeast on a rainy year (2003 was the year the big drought broke in Georgia. It started raining the day we cut in our driveway and didn't stop until we moved into the house! We had a lot of mold because it was so hot and steamy and it was impossible to keep it dry - that's why they didn't ues tipis down here!).

We dug a pit and built a seat to set on top - it was our "outhouse." We live in the middle of nowhere, so privacy wasn't an issue, but we had a great view ourselves! You could string up tarps for protection in the rain/privacy. We just wore our raincoats out to the privy!

It will be great. What an adventure.

Wow, some of these stories are amazing. I couldn't do it, but kudos to those whose can!